Author Topic: BC poly limit  (Read 12329 times)

Offline Legacy

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2009, 06:10:47 AM »
Well Raven, it seems like you've made quite a progress since you started, at the point you can make your own ships alone and at the end they will look good.
Obviously there's the fact that a canon ship is a lot harder to do as the surfaces usually are put in a position that does not match where you have the polygons (usually becomes painfull pretty fast), but as you model over your own concepts, i still think it's a very good showcase.

Lemme know if you have any info or help, but i don't think you actually need those.

Offline Dalek

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2009, 06:20:58 AM »
Is it me or are most good quality BC ships over 15k these days? Shoot me if I'm wrong but thats the impression I got.
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Offline Raven Night

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2009, 03:27:35 AM »
Two schools of thought here....

Texture mechanics/purists/founders/conservatives....people like BBarr, Moonraker, Myself, LC, Adonis, Mindblip, Wicked Zombie....we are talking people that were here at the beginning of modding Star Trek games (I myself started with modding SFC in 1999....Newships project anyone?) or at the very beginning of modding BC. People that, for one reason or another, keep the polys low and take pride it.

We are from the days when you had to limit ships to under 2k polys (500 was best) and 256 textures. Although I am a novice with respect to modeling, I was around at the very beginning of modding star trek games...from that point I think I might have something to say about modding ships with merit. Try to remember that lots of these guys are veterans, and should receive some respect for that.

Except for me...throw bricks, just make sure they are white ones....I hate red brick. Tacky.


Then you have what I call progressives....lots of examples here, incredible work where the ships push 25k polys and knock your socks off. There seems to be more put into the model and less in textures...by no means an insult to the fine texture work, but rather an example of priority. These are ships that look lovely even skinny (sans textures) and dress to impress.

Which is the right way? Depends on a few things.

1) Do you want lots of ships onscreen?
2) Do you want a single ship that burns with beauty?
3) How many platforms do you want to support?

It takes ALOT of skill to keep the polys low. This is beyond debate. The reason is you have to trick the eyes with textures...that means alot of weathering, drop shadows, sub contrast lines, washouts, etc. Making a ship that has an impressive presence AND is under 10k is something to be very proud of.

However, you cannot ignore the obvious skill, beauty and craftsmanship that goes into a high poly model.

I guess the point is this...making a high poly model (modeling in details) is easier, at least in the eyes of veteran modelers perhaps, compared to low poly work. Perhaps it really depends on perspective.

Just please keep in mind that LC has been around since the beginning and is a marquis modeler. I doubt many would dispute this.

I also think that people like Chronowerx and Limey98 have made huge contributions to this community, and should not be dismissed or ignored.

An opinion of my own to add to this wall of text (not like ive ever been opinionated or anything :b). I feel that doing canon work is MUCH harder than original work. I just wanted to add that tidbit.

Edited by El.

Offline Raven Night

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2009, 03:45:05 AM »
On more thing to add. I have to give some props.

If anyone here thinks my work is halfway worth anything thank LC and DJ for it. LC  built quite a few of the initial BC2 designs (and if I hadnt been such a tightwad dweeb he probably would have done alot more)...it was those meshes, specifically studying them, like the settings, how they were made, proper lighting, etc that got me really started.

DJ is my only hope for making reasonable feds. My feds suck, period lol. However, DJ has a wonderful eye when it comes to small visual cues...like how the graduated decks are on a saucer, or the proper proportions on a saucer edge or nacelle...good profiles, good clash on paneling, etc. that gave me a million ideas that were worlds better than what I was doing.

When I do post some shots Ill make sure to specifically point out where I ripped him off and therefore bow to his greatness lol.

Offline Villain

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2009, 04:57:46 AM »
Raven put it perfectly. Neither way is right or wrong generally, but rather based on what your/your targets PC can handle. There are those of us like myself who would rather the typical trek conflict of two or three ships, that look spectacular and can almost trick the eyes into not seeing the edges and add to the immersion. There are also those of us who either don't have the computer or just generally prefer to have massive battles, dodging and weaving between phaser fire, debris and other vessels that whiz by so fast you don't notice the lower polycounts and the corners that ensue with such. (Not that I'm saying it looks terrible, just that you can't deny a lower polycount generally means less smooth edges.)

Edited by El.


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der-ner-ner-ner-ner ..... der-ner-ner-ner-ner .....
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Offline ChronowerX_GT

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2009, 08:15:35 AM »
Ok my personal views.

Don't sacrifice smoothness for polies, but don't make it unnessessarily high. From what I see 20k looks nice to me. But i'd worry more about textures making an impact on a PC. Along the lines of what DJ does seems the optimal polycount for me.


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Offline El

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2009, 04:20:22 PM »
Ok, I've cleaned the general spam, antagonistic posts, and most of the sarcasm from this thread.
This means some of you have had your posts edited so they still make as much sense as possible.

To avoid me losing another 15 minutes of my life which I'll never get back, can we keep this thread civil, spam free and respectful of the opinions of others.

Thanks

El

Offline candle_86

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2009, 12:11:58 PM »
I dunno some of the higher poly models kill my rig, A64 3500 and a Geforce 6800 256mb

Offline teleguy

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2009, 12:19:05 PM »
I dunno some of the higher poly models kill my rig, A64 3500 and a Geforce 6800 256mb
Might also be the texture size. I had a Geforce 6800 with 256 MB and it couldn't handle anything over 1024x1024 but I could run models with ~50k polys.

Offline candle_86

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2009, 12:29:55 PM »
well it might be, but some of my SFC models use 2048x2048 on a few places, doesnt lag me, but it might on BC dunno

Offline Daystar70

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2009, 08:35:37 PM »
In some of the 3d programs i have used, Light Maps were a huge cause of concern if you had to many light objects PLUS the Polygon count,Plus textures=stacked up to kill if rendered in a non high end system..does BC converted meshes worry on light maps?

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2009, 03:38:28 PM »
I have s ship that is 58000 and another that is 40000 and they can run smoothly on ATI 3400 series VGA

Offline RCgothic

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2009, 09:44:31 PM »
The last ship I modelled came in at 64k polies I think. I honestly don't know how I'd reduce that number without compromising quality, but that's why these guys are the mod gods and I'm not. ;)

Offline ChronowerX_GT

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2009, 02:03:57 PM »
Is it the gfx card of cpu that does the work when it comes to polies?


Having a smoking section in a restaurant is kinda like having a peeing section in a pool...

Offline Villain

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2009, 02:07:10 PM »
It is safe to say that the poly limit for BC is over 9000.


"The design is clearly ancient... Launched hundreds of thousands of years ago."

Quote from: JimmyB76
der-ner-ner-ner-ner ..... der-ner-ner-ner-ner .....
---
Quote from: Rick Sternbach, on the topic of the Galor Class' length
...Probably not, but the number I get(379.6m) could be considered ?original intent,? a term that I think I will be using from now on, and ?canon? be damned.

Offline Vladko1

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2009, 03:07:31 PM »
Wow my Yorktown Refit is about 50 000 polys

Offline Darkthunder

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2009, 07:34:55 PM »
Wow my Yorktown Refit is about 50 000 polys

Note: High amount of polygons doesn't automatically mean "high quality". It all depends on how you use the polygons. I've seen ships with 5-6k polygons that looked better than some of the 10-15k models.
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Offline DJ Curtis

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2009, 08:30:26 PM »
Absolutely true DT.

Offline JimmyB76

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2009, 10:06:50 PM »
definitely...

Offline Vladko1

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Re: BC poly limit
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2009, 02:43:33 AM »
The Yorktown has a around 350 polys per phaser. First it was 6500 polys per phaser but Milkshape crashed and I tried to reduce polygons to around 300-400. In my christmas fix pack I will fix everything buggy.