Author Topic: Star Trek Into Darkness - Images, Videos, Discussion, etc  (Read 101911 times)

Offline Bones

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #740 on: May 27, 2013, 03:36:28 AM »
Well, without Berman over his shoulder, he might pull it off.  Just cause Insurrection sucked balls doesn't mean he's a bad director.  He DID do First Contact after all.
and a bunch of good episodes too.

Offline Saquist

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #741 on: May 27, 2013, 03:55:51 AM »
SG1 was the best, Atlantis was ehhh and Universe was even more ehhh.
I miss SG1 but we can complain. It lasted longer than most.

Adam

I liked Atlantis first and fourth year but the Michael Saga killed it in a big way.  They should gone to a grander scale for Atlantis instead of the "Search for Batteries" the show turned into .  First Strike and Siege were some the greatest moment on TV that year.

Universe was awful.  The acting wasn't bad but it was THE WORSE Writing for a supposedly more realistic and gritty show.  It was like someone pulled the set background down for a gritty visceral show but the writing never reflected it and even got a little worse from some of Atlantis' bad points.

-First Contact was stupidly conceived and cheap.
    -The Borg were nerfed in a huge way
    -Thanks for Zombie-fying the Borg
    -The Queen was a ridiculous Filler that did nothing but talk. (Give me the Queen from Aliens any day or night)
    - Berman swallowed more than he could chew.  No project like Warp Drive is going to be achieved by a Drunk Hill Billy
    -Data the loyal pet of Picard is never going to believable as an evil plot twist, who knows why the queen fell for it.
    -If Return of the Jedi is the best Fleet Battle...then this was the worse... (Hoping this can be corrected in the next Trek)

Movie making is an art.  It's maynot be hard to make it believable and realistic but it is hard to create characters that matter and true sense of suspense and awe.  That takes a story-teller.  Sights and sound merge with the events in a seamless tapestry of discovery.  

Allegory-
The part that make movies more than just an art form of sight and sound is Themes and Allegory.  These elements involve matters of the mind.  It's the element that makes you think.  While Into Darkness had allegory it had no theme...no trend to carry the idea.  The Allegory seemed to show up for a cameo and then was gone.  It was swallowed by the gratuitous action (as opposed to the gratuitous sexism)

You can't be thoughtful or insightful in a Popcorn Flick, it's tacky and disenguous...clearly that's not what this movie was about because if it was it was not well done.  And its not easy explaining why but it mostly has to do with TIME to think which this movie doesn't do.  There are no pauses for reflection...no pensive moments or slow pull backs with the camera to show us a moment frozen in time and terror for our characters, much of it is one adventure to the next.  Earth Explosion, attacking Gunship, Trek to Kronos, ***PATCH***These orders are wrong lets not do them***PATCH***, capture Kahn, learn the truth, Fight Vengeance, Save Enterprise, Crash on Earth, recapture Khan.

When you can see the theme make such an obvious cameo it's not thoughtful or insigtful in that mass of noise and explosion, it's just like a child's moment of mimicry.  No real feeling or wisdom just parroting a few ideas and quotes.  Thus I didn't take them seriously.

Offline King Class Scout

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #742 on: May 27, 2013, 11:03:28 AM »
hillbilly is one word.

you're looking for art in a world of what readers call "Extruded Book Product"?  :funny
the only time a film turns into a great piece is if they're fishing for Oscars, andonly if they do it that way on purpose.

I'll explain "Extruded Book Product" only if someone asks.  film does it too.
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Offline Saquist

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #743 on: May 27, 2013, 12:54:31 PM »
hillbilly is one word.

you're looking for art in a world of what readers call "Extruded Book Product"?  :funny
the only time a film turns into a great piece is if they're fishing for Oscars, andonly if they do it that way on purpose.

I'll explain "Extruded Book Product" only if someone asks.  film does it too.

What I like about Harve Bennett, Lenard Nimoy and Nicholas Meyers is that got on board Gene's Dreams with all serious.  I don't think Oscar was even a serious object but surely they would get a few in the FX area more than a few in their Music areas. They were all classical in their takes on Trek.  Trek and Stargate have  more than a few things in common.  Both are good thing gone bad from an ego perspective.

I just talked with this guy in Sci Fi meshes about a new series he's trying do with Enterprise.
He didn't get it.  I got the feeling I was talking to Rick Berm and Brad Joseph Mallozzi of Stargate.

When did this happen?
When did we forget that Movies were an art form?  When did we forget that we making a vision for everyone not just a vision for me.?


Quote
"Extruded Book Product"
You got some splay-nin to do, Lucy.

Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #744 on: May 27, 2013, 03:14:59 PM »
When did this happen?
When did we forget that Movies were an art form?  When did we forget that we making a vision for everyone not just a vision for me.?

1. Obviously Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness are not visions for one person.  The general public seems to enjoy it a lot, as do a fair amount of Trek fans.  It just happens that the Trek fans who dislike the films are a bit louder. :p

2. But to answer your question seriously?  I'd say it started January 31, 1997.

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Offline King Class Scout

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #745 on: May 27, 2013, 04:16:19 PM »
"extruded book product" is stuff of identical (usually low) quality mass produced like it was American Cheese (or the fake stuff made out of vegetable oil/soybean oil with cheese flavouring)...which is what the stuff was named after.  cheap and easy to produce in bulk.  Romance novels and some of the crap they sell in airports are extruded book product.  SyFy does the same thing with crappy B movies, Hollywood did it with slasher movies, disney did it in the 70's, hanna-barberra ALSO did it in the 70's, the soviet/russian/eastern block car industries are infamous for doing it, the Silver age of comic Books is extruded book product, et cetera.

Then there's the whiff of snobbiness and elitisim associated with "art" that mostly took over from "true Art is Incomprehensible"  I'm involved in another fandom that had one website with such a BAD case of "true Art Elitisim"( they refused submissions from anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who wasn't trained at an Art School) that they were hacked so hard in retribution their server was physically destroyed.  and that was in the days BEFORE Anonymous and the likes of 4chan.

shadowknight: why did you pick new years eve 97?
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Coming Soon: King's Mod Tuning Shop

best line I've ever read
Me: mine [my bridges] would probably be simple to get the characters to use.  the only person that sits is the captian.
Baz: space is vast there[sic] legs will be tired by the time they get to the next planet

Offline Bones

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #746 on: May 27, 2013, 04:27:07 PM »
Quote
the soviet/russian/eastern block car industries are infamous for doing it
yeah, just look at post-soviet Poland and it's crap-car industries like FSO  :facepalm: thank god it's gone now, good riddance  :funny

Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #747 on: May 27, 2013, 07:18:12 PM »
shadowknight: why did you pick new years eve 97?
January 31, 1997 was the release date for Star Wars: A New Hope Special Edition.  Basically when a pretentious director decided film was more about his vision than what was good storytelling and entertainment.

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Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #748 on: May 27, 2013, 07:23:46 PM »
Also, last I checked, New Years Eve was December 31st, not January 31st :P
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Offline Saquist

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #749 on: May 27, 2013, 08:16:47 PM »
1. Obviously Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness are not visions for one person.  The general public seems to enjoy it a lot, as do a fair amount of Trek fans.  It just happens that the Trek fans who dislike the films are a bit louder. :p

2. But to answer your question seriously?  I'd say it started January 31, 1997.



I think it says something, when we take that which was clearly intelligent and humbling (if imperfect)  and we reduce it further to just entertainment.  And I mean "just" entertainment. 

Movies have become an allegory for the American Educational System and it's standards.  An Allegory for what we truly value....  Entertainment over Education. Frankly I don't know how we're supposed to get from here to there (Trek) with this sort of attitude.

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You've got to applaud CBS for not Turning TOS-R into something like Star War's special edition.




Offline FarShot

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #750 on: May 27, 2013, 10:10:32 PM »
The answer, Saquist, is World War III happens. :P

Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #751 on: May 28, 2013, 12:42:03 AM »


I think it says something, when we take that which was clearly intelligent and humbling (if imperfect)  and we reduce it further to just entertainment.  And I mean "just" entertainment. 

Movies have become an allegory for the American Educational System and it's standards.  An Allegory for what we truly value....  Entertainment over Education. Frankly I don't know how we're supposed to get from here to there (Trek) with this sort of attitude.

---
You've got to applaud CBS for not Turning TOS-R into something like Star War's special edition.





Entertainment is supposed to be entertaining.  I make this argument often.  I don't play video games to learn super deep life lessons, I play them to enjoy myself and have fun.  Movies should be the same.  And don't try to say the Trek movies prior to 09 were deep.  They weren't.  The deepest one was TMP and it did terrible at the box office.  It's a lot easier to be deep and philosophical in a 3 or 4 episode story-arc.

And I do applaud CBS for that.  I was concerned when TOS-R was first announced.

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Offline Nighthawk

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #752 on: May 28, 2013, 09:19:17 AM »
The deepest one was TMP and it did terrible at the box office.  It's a lot easier to be deep and philosophical in a 3 or 4 episode story-arc.

agreed.... I guess that's the main issue with this movie...
...it's A MOVIE.

we are accustomed to see 2-hour TV episodes on the big screen... this is different.
it's a movie built up for the big screen.

and that's why I think a future Trek series on TV would not be possible: these actors wouldn't take that kind of job.
one thing is preparing yourself for a movie, trying to get your schedule right for the next two or three months, staying on weight, getting to know (and like, or hate) new people,...

but think about doing that for a 5-year season... going to the same place EVERY DAY, caring for your aspect EVERY DAY, dealing with the same people EVERY DAY, ....
some people might welcome the oportunity, but some others wouldn't like the fact of being "locked" on a role for so long.

and on top of that, you guys want the series to be "less action and more drama"? hell no!... they wouldn't even sign for one episode if there was no action at all...
it would be, plain an simple, BORING.

Offline Joshmaul

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #753 on: May 28, 2013, 09:43:50 AM »
and on top of that, you guys want the series to be "less action and more drama"? hell no!... they wouldn't even sign for one episode if there was no action at all...
it would be, plain an simple, BORING.

And therein lies the problem. Story is sacrificed for special effects and cheap laughs.
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Offline captain_obvious

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #754 on: May 28, 2013, 10:32:21 AM »
They weren't.  The deepest one was TMP and it did terrible at the box office. 

Eh? I was under the impression that after adjustment for inflation, TMP actually turned the biggest proft for a trek film until JJtrek came about.  It just wasn't the star wars style smash hit that paramount wanted.
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Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #755 on: May 28, 2013, 10:37:24 AM »
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=startrek.htm

You are correct, Capt. Adjusted for ticket price inflation, The Motion Picture made the most money PRIOR to the 2009 movie. On the other hand, it was also probably the movie with the least amount of action. Like 5-10 min dedicated solely to admiring the Big E? Nah, that wouldn't fly in todays moviegoing audience.

As for tv series, I don't see what the problem would be. Use a new crew, on a different ship, but set it within the "new timeline". Why does every show have to be about the Enterprise? Surely Starfleet is larger than just 1 ship and crew? :P
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Offline Joshmaul

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #756 on: May 28, 2013, 11:58:37 AM »
Like 5-10 min dedicated solely to admiring the Big E? Nah, that wouldn't fly in todays moviegoing audience.

And they're what I like to call "heretics". That is one of the three scenes I can watch over and over again. (The others are the opening bit with the Klingon battlecruisers and the V'Ger flyover.)
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Offline captain_obvious

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #757 on: May 28, 2013, 03:51:43 PM »
And they're what I like to call "heretics". That is one of the three scenes I can watch over and over again. (The others are the opening bit with the Klingon battlecruisers and the V'Ger flyover.)

Oh man, I still listen to the Klingon attack run music every day.  
But the aeons of beauty shots of the E? I love them, they're almost pornographic in a pinup sort of way.  But BUT the audience of today just wouldn't settle for it.  Attention spans just aren't long enough.
what was I saying?

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=startrek.htm

.... The Motion Picture made the most money PRIOR to the 2009 movie.

Which is exactly what I said :)

Quote
As for tv series, I don't see what the problem would be. Use a new crew, on a different ship, but set it within the "new timeline". Why does every show have to be about the Enterprise? Surely Starfleet is larger than just 1 ship and crew? :P

I don't know about the new timeline tbh.  Right now it's been all JJ's baby, which leaves me rather cold toward it.
 That said, I would love to see something like the kelvin from jjtrek as a TV series.  First episode? Q turns up and upon seeing the bald captain, snaps his fingers and an epic afro wig appears upon the captains head  :D

Hmm...how's about...NCIS trek? Set during either the prime timeline TMP era, or between the TMP and TNG eras, prime timeline.  That could work..
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Offline Nebula

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #758 on: May 28, 2013, 04:05:44 PM »
I always thought a mini series following multiple ship throughout might be interesting...
Say you start off with one ship/crew follow them until their story is over or until they meet up with another ship
and you swap over to them.

Kinda like a day in the life of starfleet.
You could choose anything from the periods. From The Borg attacks to Dom war or anything in between.
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Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #759 on: May 28, 2013, 06:42:43 PM »
And therein lies the problem. Story is sacrificed for special effects and cheap laughs.

Again, I loved the stories in these two movies.  They were nice and fast-paced.  That's not to say I would say no to longer, slower shots of the Enterprise.  Apparently the shot of the Enterprise in the nebula, waiting on the results of opening the torpedo, was a big longer, started from further away, and gave a really good look at the ship.  But in a movie with this pacing, it probably would've been out of place.  The big problem is that the movies are very rarely over 2 hours long.  That doesn't leave much room for the introspectiveness we've come to expect.  Frankly, I've always felt the 2 hour time-frame hurt a lot of these movies, especially Nemesis(Berman admitted to cutting scenes that would have been great for fans and for the story, all so he could get the movie to clock under 2 hours).

As for special effects?  I love JJ's special effects work, and I think it's a crime that Avatar won Best Effects over Star Trek 2009.  Abrams loves the physical.

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