Foundation and QBautostart in SP 1.1

[Bat66wat6]

This thread isn't an attack on anyone or the creators of the offending mods. We all want the best BC possible and I'm just looking for answers.

After discovering my master Custom 1.1 installs SP was broken (as in would freeze when trying to load any mission) I tracked the main cause as BCUT Foundation full version.

I made a seperate fresh install and put *just* foundation full version on. Load SP and same thing.
So I refreshed that install back to 1.1 patched and put BCUT Foundation basic then console tracker on. No problems with SP. So now i'm thinking :wtf

I use BCUT to put full Foundation in one directory and basic foundation in the other. Then I use a directory comparison program and making a list of all files in each directory. Here's the results:

BCUT foundation basic (fully SP compatible)
   \scripts\Foundation.py
   \scripts\FoundationMenu.py
   \scripts\LoadBridge.py
   \scripts\loadspacehelper.py
   \scripts\LoadTacticalSounds.py
   \scripts\Registry.py
   \scripts\StaticDefs.py
   \scripts\AI\FoundationAI.py
   \scripts\Custom\FoundationConfig.py
   \scripts\Custom\__init__.py
   \scripts\Custom\Autoload\__init__.py
   \scripts\Custom\Ships\__init__.py
   \scripts\Icons\ShipIcons.py
   \scripts\MainMenu\mainmenu.py
   \scripts\QuickBattle\QuickBattle.py
   \scripts\Systems\FoundationUtils.py
   \scripts\Tactical\Interface\ShieldsDisplay.py
   \scripts\Tactical\Interface\WeaponsDisplay.py
BCUT foundation full (INSTANTLY CRASHES SP!)
   all foundation basic files +
      \scripts\bcdebug.py
      \scripts\Fixes20030217.py
      \scripts\FoundationTech.py
      \scripts\FoundationTriggers.py
      \scripts\Custom\Autoload\000-Fixes20030221.py
      \scripts\Custom\Autoload\000-Fixes20030305-FoundationTriggers.py
      \scripts\Custom\Autoload\000-Fixes20030402-FoundationRedirect.py
      \scripts\Custom\Autoload\000-Fixes20040628-ShipSubListV3_7Foundation
      \scripts\Custom\Autoload\000-Utilities-FoundationMusic-20030410.py
      \scripts\Custom\Autoload\000-Utilities-GetFileNames-20030402.py
      \scripts\Custom\Autoload\LoadFoundationTech.py
      \scripts\Custom\Techs\
      \scripts\ftb\Tech\

What is going on here?
What in the "full" version murders SP? And whatever it is, why does it have to murder SP?  :argh:

QBautostart 0.9.1 + Foundation basic
With the Qbautostart mutator on:

• SP crashes within a minute of being able to control the ship in E1M1. Error:

#----------------------------------------------------------------------->>> Sat Jul 28 01:38:24 2012
####
Outdated Foundation, updating functions
Tracking Console
####

####
['lActiveMutators = [', '\011"""Extra Ships and Mods""",', '\011"""Console Tracker""",', '\011"""Stock Systems""",', '\011"""Stock Ships""",', ']']
####

####
AttributeError: PreLoadAssets
####

####
cPickle.PicklingError: Cannot pickle <type 'type'> objects.
####

^ With a major case of  :wtf a google brought up only:
python "pickling": http://docs.python.org/library/pickle.html
bcs-tng thread that got nowhere fixing it: http://bcs-tng.com/forums/index.php?topic=4852.15

SP crashed before I added console tracker so it can't be the source. Basic foundaton + nothing = no prob. Add QBautostart and problem strikes. Add Console tracker and problem caught in log.

With the Qbautostart mutator off:
SP will run without any visible problems but using ESC>Quit game>Abort mission crashes the game to desktop.
No evidence in the log report of this problem  

These are some seriously fundamental things really. I ran 1.1 patched with just: basic foundation, console tracker and latest QBautostart and still got game crashing bugs. As far as Qbautostart is concerned it's especially interesting that it should insta-crash given the 0.9.1 readme:

Install:
Changes:
<---------->
Version 0.9.1:   - Added missing file UserDict.py, sorry!
Version 0.9:   - Major changes for the Multiplayer support.
Version 0.8:   - Added support for Multiplayer and Key Bindings using MLeoDaalders Key Foundation
      - the scripts/LoadQBautostart.py has been removed - it can be savely deleted on your installation
      - scripts/Lib/LibEngineering.py has been moved to scripts/Custom/Qbautostart/Libs/LibEngineering.py
         but "include Lib.LibEngineering" do still work.
Version 0.7:   - Bugfix: restart() Now does work properly!
Version 0.6:   - Bugfix: Multiple Button problems.
Version 0.5.1:   - The Transporter was broken in 0.5, sorry - fixed
Version 0.5:   - Now using Foundation Triggers (included) to load - no more overwriting of QuickBattle.py required.
      - We now come with our own Library - QBR is no longer required (see Requirements)
      - Added Single Player compatibility
      - Removed Engineering.py (plz delete the files scripts/Custom/QBautostart/Engineering.py(c) from your HD.
Version 0.4: Added ATP3 compatibility, current Transporter Version added.
Version 0.3: Now using Mutators - overwriting files is out!
Version 0.2: Added Compatibility for the QBR (its now working in QBR), AND Custom Bridges should now work in QBR.
Version 0.1: First Release (Engineering Extension)

[Defiant]

For that to work QBA requires a SP fixed Foundation which so far only exists inside KM.

[Bat66wat6]

For that to work QBA requires a SP fixed Foundation which so far only exists inside KM.

Are you referring to QBA with Full foundation or Basic foundation?

How are you so sure that Foundation is the cause of the problem when the game runs perfectly fine with it installed as long as it's the basic version? Trouble is only encountered when QBA is added to the game.

Also, why is it that QBA makes "Quit to main menu" and "Abort Mission" crash to desktop even when the mutator is off? Doesn't unchecking the mutator mean that the game will not load that mod?

IF it is deffinitely Foundation that makes QBA incompatible with SP then i'm curious... would it be possible to simply take my list of basic foundation files and go into the KM .rar, extract them and throw them straight into the 1.1 overiding the current broken foundation?

[Defiant]

Are you referring to QBA with Full foundation or Basic foundation?

I never heard of Full or Basic Foundation. What do you mean with that?

IF it is deffinitely Foundation that makes QBA incompatible with SP then i'm curious... would it be possible to simply take my list of basic foundation files and go into the KM .rar, extract them and throw them straight into the 1.1 overiding the current broken foundation?

Not that simple. There are also other KM specific changes I did to Foundation which will probably make it crash any Stock BC.
Hard to tell after multiple years.

[Mario]

I never heard of Full or Basic Foundation. What do you mean with that?

This is BCUT specific...

Basic = The one which came with BCMP/BCMI for backwards compatibility
Full = The one with the Foundation fixes to that date (2007 or 2008, I'm not sure). Me and Mleo both came up with a list of files which should go into the "Full" version.

@Defiant
Is is time that I update the installer of BCUT's foundation to accommodate KM fixes?

[JimmyB76]

@Defiant
Is is time that I update the installer of BCUT's foundation to accommodate KM fixes?

i think that would be a good idea...
altho, KM isnt fully finished...  but perhaps to update it to where KM is now might be ok?

[Defiant]

@Defiant
Is is time that I update the installer of BCUT's foundation to accommodate KM fixes?

Bad idea, there might be other changes in it.
I need to go through it script by script, but not doing it during summer :)

But we will need do to that anyway for Luroks mod..

[JimmyB76]

Bad idea, there might be other changes in it.
I need to go through it script by script, but not doing it during summer

But we will need do to that anyway for Luroks mod..

aaah good point

[Mario]

Let me know when you start compiling the new foundation then.

[Bat66wat6]

Is is time that I update the installer of BCUT's foundation to accommodate KM fixes?

It seems KM is a spoiled child compared to the attention 1.1 gets 

If you were to bless BCUT with the latest Foundation from KM would it accomodate 1.1 and (more specifically) its Single Player?

As it is currently KM running full foundation, QBA and much more is many more times stable than a 1.1 that's just running only basic foundation and QBA 

[Lurok91]

Should have responded to this sooner    SP does run ok with full Foundation and QBA 1.0.  I did hit a few snags when started on this mod last year but relatively easy to sort out     The major bug to fix at moment is getting full NanoFX to work.

[Mario]

Should have responded to this sooner    SP does run ok with full Foundation and QBA 1.0.  I did hit a few snags when started on this mod last year but relatively easy to sort out     The major bug to fix at moment is getting full NanoFX to work.

Which NanoFX module are you trying to get to work?

[JimmyB76]

there is a thread about it in BCSP forum...
http://bc-central.net/forums/index.php/topic,9374.0.html

[Lurok91]

Looks like all the Nano modules work, but there's a bug where when you Nano-out of warp and into new system,  graphics don't seem to load player ship and system items (planets, ships etc).  Just get black. But the HUD identifiers are still there.   Disabling off SpecialFX seems to resolve problem, but at the loss of blinkers and plasma trails (for some reason atmosphere fx still seem to work  )

[Defiant]

I would recommend not to use NanoFX Warp for SP.
You'll get lots of trouble when there is more then one ship warping or in the mission where the game redirects you to starbase 12.

[Lurok91]

Surprisingly NanoFX Warp hasn't been an issue so far and works beautifully in SP.  No crashes, no bugs and I've played entire game through.  It is a major memory hog though.  As I said above, the blackout-warp bug goes away once SpecialFX is disabled from loading.

[Mario]

Do any of these ships you're using have Blinkers setup on them?

[Lurok91]

Only a couple as far as I can tell:  Wiley's Galaxy, and the Galors Jimmy brought in (from DS9FX?).  Before I deactivated SpecialFX they were all working ok in game.  Are you thinking blinkers/BlinkerFX are cause of the warp-blackout effect?

[JimmyB76]

Are you thinking blinkers/BlinkerFX are cause of the warp-blackout effect?

you know what - now that you mention it, i do think i recall a few times in the past (at BCU) where people had mentioned that they had experienced this - and it was related to ships blinkers...
there might have even been a fix for it somewhere...

[Mario]

I know of a random scenario where Blinkers on ships cause everything to go dark. It most often happens when you are warping in between systems, using MVAM and some other scenarios. But warping and MVAM are the most prominent.

A fix which fully resolves the problem was never released. You could try Mleos NanoFX Fixes and see if it fully resolves the problem however.

My advice is to ditch the BlinkerFX or remove Blinkers from HPs on your ships. I did the same thing for DS9FX ships, I wrote a program which went through the HPs and removed the Blinkers.