Scripting Help

[BES]

Im still having a hard time understanding the relation between python and the python used in BC....I have not seen any classes on HOW to script stuff in BC(except hardpoints and stuff),like the more complicated stuff.. using python and or the difference between them..like what does what in BC compared to regular python stuff?

Only way I can learn this is by visual...thats the way I learn..once im shown in like a video or pic of someone typing the stuff in and getting what result in the game I should be good to go.

Because ive went over all the stuff having to do with python and ive done some tutorials...but none having to do with python in BC..

Just my 2 cents...you guys need more scripters but wont give the help needed in order for someone to learn properly..you can give me python tutorials but if it doesnt have anything having to do with the python used in BC then its chinese to me basically.if you dont understand what im saying then forget it I guess and ill stick with hardpointing and modeling(something alot of people can do already..)

Please understand that im not trying to be rude if you all took it as rude im sorry..but I need you to understand where im coming from is all..if you choose not to help..like I said just forget it and ill stick to stuff i know already..

[MLeo]

Let me start with a question.

Do you know how to program a bit?

[BES]

Simple stuff like Hello World or a little game in python C++ or Java..

[LJ]

The majority of us who script learned by reading code by peers in the community and the SDK.  The code speaks for it's self really, and most of it (appart from my early stuff!) is well documented.

Individuals like Mleo have helped people such as myself no end and answered questions and helped me with things i didn't understand.  I think your best bet is to play around with existing scripts, try to get it to do things.  Soon you will realise how things start to fit together, and how you can use things like App.py to make pretty much anything happen.

Poke arround and ask questions ;)

[MLeo]

Aside from what LJ said, I think the following applies a lot:
No body can give you the definite guide to doing XYZ.



The next step would be: what do you want to do?

[BES]

Well ill put it this way...I bought 3Ds Max 8...tried to make stuff and had no clue what I was doing..feeling in the dark basically even after trying regular picture based tutorials..so I bought a 20hour Video course on the subject and learned right away.

The same thing with scripting in BC...I play with stuff in BC altering something,then the game crashes..or nothing seems to happen at all..

there is too many things to play with in BC, at least tell my what functions do what?,like the conditions expressions used in BC?,how does try/except/finally work in BC if they work at all?, ETC..

other than hardpointing..

[MLeo]

Well, unlike scripting, you can find a load of tutorials for modeling. Even for Star Trek ships.
I hope you aren't like me, no graphical (or modeling) skills at all.
If you are, I hope you can get a refund on that 3000+ dollar price tag.



Right, Python.
I hope you have seen the this sticky:
http://teamlynxifer.co.uk/bcc/index.php/topic,40.0.html
Original text by SimRex, btw.

You know, learning to script would be so much easier if you had a specific thing you wanted to script (I suppose the same with modeling).
Then, when you have something, ask feed back (especially for modelling).

[Mario]

Sounds like you want an easy way to learn how to script there is no easy way. Only a lot of patience... trial and error.

It's not like that we won't share and make tutorials but we do have other things to do then be here all the time. You should post some specific questions not just I want to learn to script.

Do what most of us did, although it was already mentioned. Try starting small, modify current scripts read the code. You start with small steps and then move on. You cannot get an instant knowledge even with tutorials.

And finally with those questions we would end up writing a novel lol

[MLeo]

Also, when scripting, always run in TestMode and in Windowed Mode.

Another tip, the console is basicly one big script file. We use it a lot to test stuff.

[BES]

Sounds like you want an easy way to learn how to script there is no easy way. Only a lot of patience... trial and error.

It's not like that we won't share and make tutorials but we do have other things to do then be here all the time. You should post some specific questions not just I want to learn to script.

Do what most of us did, although it was already mentioned. Try starting small, modify current scripts read the code. You start with small steps and then move on. You cannot get an instant knowledge even with tutorials.

And finally with those questions we would end up writing a novel lol

My questions were all over the BCU scripting area, I wrote a list of needed stuff to be done for my Wing Commander mod...like a working subsystem that uses a cloaking sound for one fighter,an accurate point defense system,a better AI for my bigger ships,a new armor system...etc.. alot of those things got blown off..I also thanked you Mleo for helping with the cloaking thing even though it still didnt work the way I needed it to since im still not understanding some things..
yes I want a quick way to do this stuff because I dont have 8years to finish the mod for BC because im also going to be making an acctual Wing Commander game after the models are done...

Im trying to tell you how I personally learn...you can call it what you want but once im SHOWN visually how to do it, and its all aspects of python in BC then ill have it down and wont keep asking on multiple forums..

Since once again you dont have "time" then dont whine about needing scripters for BC, its like you guys are censoring your scrpting methods or something...geez.

[JimmyB76]

you really should drop the attitude - especially when asking for help...  you're only going to wind up closing the doors to everyone that can be kind and generous with their time to help you get better with that which you want to do...
and you should take Sovvy's advice rather than get all defensive - he knows what he is talking about...

My questions were all over the BCU scripting area

did you notice BCU isn't what it used to be?  mostly all the skilled scripters and modders call BCC their home now...
what is it you want?  to learn how to script and do things for yourself?  or just put out ideas and have the skilled scripters do most (if not all) of it for you?

[BES]

Ive already explained it many times what I want/need..you arent understanding I guess..im getting defensive because, you guys are like all high and mighty about it.

ill lay it out in barny terms then:

how do I make a point defense sytem that acctualy works?
how do I make a better AI?
how do I change the collision detection?
basically how do I change the more complicated stuff in BC(cloaking,shields,engine sounds,changing the warp system to a hyperspace jump on my mod only using some pics I have?...etc..

Mleo is the ONLY guy here thats acctually gave me examples on what to do...but for some reason the script wasnt working as intended(most likely something I did..).

[JimmyB76]

i'm sorry dude - but your attitude is poor and without respect...
you're making it less likely that anyone will be willing to help you with such a sour tone...
if you had a different appoarch - more respectful, patient, and appreciative (as well much less demanding and bitter) you would no doubt be receiving alot more help...
your point here is to ask for help - do you think your attitude so far here in this thread is gonna make anyone want to help you?

[BES]

Im like that because its a repetative thing on every forum every time...because people dont understand me...everytime I ask nicely its the same reply we dont have time for you besically.

I dont have specifics on what I want or need to learn except what ive already posted many time here and on BCU..

Another person I see that has done a good tutorial is mark, he didnt acctualy show me anything but the Tutorial is great

[JimmyB76]

everytime I ask nicely its the same reply we dont have time for you besically.

well perhaps you shouldnt assume that people here (the most skilled scipters/modders) are a$$holes like that, before turning into such negativity...
you hadnt noticed that they are already trying to help you, before you turned all sour?

[Mario]

We're not all high and mighty, you got the wrong picture.

how do I make a point defense sytem that acctualy works?

What is wrong with the current one? The current one works, at least it worked the last time I checked.

how do I make a better AI?

What kind of AI. You want a more aggressive AI or...

how do I change the collision detection?

1st why would you want to change collision detection. Care to elaborate in more depth.

What do you want to change around shields, cloaking.

I'm not sure about others, but I'd like more info. Can you post your ideas then you would get some concrete answers. I like to have as much as possible info before giving a answer.

[MLeo]

Right:

how do I make a point defense sytem that acctualy works?
The current point defense system took more than a year to make.
And it works.

how do I make a better AI?
AI is still rather difficult to make.
Even when it's possible, it's a rather fudgy area to just define "better".
There is however a visual tool included in the SDK, check the mission scripting tutorials on how to set it up.

And there is a person who really has a nack for this. But he made sort of boid (or flocking) system. One of the "simpler" types of AI.

how do I change the collision detection?
Hard coded, we can't even change the force it relays (or make it "ignore").
We can however disable it (even for a particular object->object pair or object->type of object, no shields btw).

basically how do I change the more complicated stuff in BC(cloaking,shields,engine sounds,changing the warp system to a hyperspace jump on my mod only using some pics I have?...etc..
The closest system to this is the one in DS9FX.
We are looking into making it a modular system, but this got snowed under due to an intern.
But currently it's fixed for wormhole travel.


You mean the tutorials above as the stickies?
Those are reposts. See the threads for the original credits.
These are also posted on BCU. In fact, these are reposts from there.


All the scripts you describe above are highly complex scripts (if I were to rate them, I would say double to tripple A level), not something a beginner would want to do without knowing BC deeply.
In fact, not even the advanced scripters here know everything there is to know about BC. And knowing my memory, I only know things when I run into them. It's not something I can just pull out of it and present it.

The Cloaking sound script is in fact a very easy script.
You may want to try and redo it yourself as practise.


And as Sovereign says, what would you like to change about the shields, etc, etc?

[El]

So the short answer, the one you had before in fact, is to go and look at it yourself.
Try the cloak script as MLeo suggests, make some changes, see what it does, that should cover your need for a visual aid.

Also learn some patience and to listen when people give you advice (especially after you asked for it), programming is often trial and error and you will need patience.

Remember programming is very much concept based, whereas modelling and texturing are very much visually based.

[Defiant]

There is probably a good reason why no one answers..

how do I make a point defense sytem that acctualy works?
The current point defense system took more than a year to make.
And it works.

huh? Who needed that long for a PD script?

[MLeo]

Well, it took nearly a year since one of the first discussions about Point Defense started before a working Point Defense script was made.