Bridge Commander Central
Recreational Forums => Trek Discussion => Topic started by: hobbs on October 21, 2009, 04:12:40 PM
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can any one help me with the history and events not seen in first contact.
i me in that film we see the borg at earth when the ent-E turns up...
i have recently read that there was a 3day running battle with the borg and starfleet los 300 ships.
do we know any more?
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Where did you read this thing about 300 ships and a 3 day battle?
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Just watch the series Enterprise, if you can stand it, lol.
That pretty much only happened because of what happened in First Contact.
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ENterprise was a great series, sorry, it was. He is referring to events in the TNG era portion not the past. The novelisation of FC may have the answers i'm curious now myself gonna dig around.
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Novelisations of films shouldn't be trusted. Although there outcomes are the same, some details differ from the films.
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True, unless its written by the creator, like when Lucus wrote SW a new hop novel.
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The FC novelization is pretty close to the movie, they did try to explain some of Cochrane and Lily Sloan's Backstorys that didn't make it into the film, but most of the details are the same. It's not quite as different as the Generations novel, which was written with the movie's original ending, as well as other scenes that were cut.
I don't remember any details about the battle in FC, but that might have been further detailed in another book. And the running battle certainly explains why it started way out in the typhoon sector.
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Where did you read this thing about 300 ships and a 3 day battle?
here :
http://www.ditl.org/index.php?daymain=/picbattle.php?12
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I wouldn't trust that in the slightest. Particular since there's key in the bottom that says:
Yellow text = Canon source Green text = Backstage source White text = DITL speculation
And the 300 ships and several days is in white text.
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I wouldn't trust that in the slightest. Particular since there's key in the bottom that says:
Yellow text = Canon source Green text = Backstage source White text = DITL speculation
And the 300 ships and several days is in white text.
sorry just came accross it and it inspired my question... what DID happen between the first engagement and the enterprise turning up at earth.
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a long trail of debris and frozen bodies appeared in our solar system. that's what happened. :P
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ENterprise was a great series, sorry, it was.
Totally agree, there are plenty of people that feel a lot more than just "stand it".
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True, unless its written by the creator, like when Lucus wrote SW a new hop novel.
Actually, Alan Dean Foster ghostwrote the ANH novelization, it just has Lucas' name on it. He's the guy that wrote Splinter of the Mind's Eye.
the Trek movie novelizations were good until about Generations. The "three day battle" thing was from the original screenplay and they tossed it out when they decided they wanted the Enterprise crew listen to it on audio. It lasts all of five minutes from the time that Troi tells Picard that they have engaged the Borg. It would have killed the suspension of disbelief to have had a montage or the dreaded "three days later" subtitle. What I want to now is, how did the Enterprise get from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth before the battle was over. And no, it does not appear that they were in transit three days, as Picard ordered them to battle stations before going to warp.
I hate these snafus. Thank goodness now they have Slipstream, so these quick jaunts across the quadrant make some sense.
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The Romulan Neutral Zone isn't that far from Earth. At maximum warp, it probably only took an hour, which might have been the transit time from the Typhon sector to Earth.
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The Romulan Neutral Zone isn't that far from Earth. At maximum warp, it probably only took an hour, which might have been the transit time from the Typhon sector to Earth.
thanks i didn't know that
the conclusion i draw from these replies is that there is no "official" back story to the events of the typhon to earth battles :( oh well i'll just have to try and re-enact it in bc lol)
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not really but they are correct the RNZ is closer to earth than the klingon boarder lol. It stands to reason also considering Enterprise Encountered romulans less than a year after leaving earth also, though the trip to Qurnos makes less sense, given relative distance, not even the E could do it at Warp 9.98, while Warp5 new scale translates to about warp 8 old TOS/ENT Scale
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A new question:
is there a relationship to the shape of starfleet ships and the warp speed that ship is able to go?
i believe that the shape of the hull aids in making the warp field more stable and efficient, but i also believe that there has been documentation that says a curved hull is better for forming and maintaining warp fields than angular ones.
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The curves of a ship depends of its funchen. Look at the first extreme design, the galaxy class. The wanted to do a 24th century ship that would separate during battle and reconnect after. So the extreme curved lines for the ship had to reflect that. And after it set the standered for 24th centry design. Now look at smaller ship like the Prometheus and intrepid, curved spear shaped saucers that was designed for atmospheric flight. One could assume that elipital or TMP saucers could not make a safe entry and reentry of a planets atmosphere. SO i believe only the size of the nacelles and distance from the hull and the warp core its self would make only difference in a warp field. Jest look at the Borg,lol.
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i quote from the tng: technical manual
"...the shape of the starship hull facilitates slippage into warp and imparts a geometric correction vector. The saucer module , which retains its characteristic shape from the original concept of an emergency landing craft, helps shape the forward field component through the use of a 55 degree elliptical hull planform, found to produce peak transitional efficiency."
as for the spear shapes that have been used i think or assume its the use of warp field controller software adjusts the field geometry to fit that shape. (which is less efficient due to using something to alter the shape rather than having a natural flow but the ships are fast due to advances in warp field geometry control)
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:funny SHow off, :funny
That was jest my thought. But the borg have a flying brick witch does in a way prove my point. And voyager was built to land on a planet. what you stated is a way to make it work, but the over all design is about its primary funchen.
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Well it seems the sleeker the ship the faster they go(excluding NX01) look at this, the ncc-1701 went Warp 7, the 1701a went warp 7.5 the 1701b went warp 8 the ncc1701d, warp 9.5, and the 1707e went warp 9.95
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hmmm so may be look at it as being the sleeker ie: narrower a ships warp field = faster warp speed?
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Well it seems the sleeker the ship the faster they go(excluding NX01) look at this, the ncc-1701 went Warp 7, the 1701a went warp 7.5 the 1701b went warp 8 the ncc1701d, warp 9.5, and the 1707e went warp 9.95
Aye, but the 1701, a, and b all used the old scale of warp speed measurement. Some time in the lost era they hit engines capable of warp 9.9999992123 and so on, so it became necessary to simplify and re-scale the speed scale to ease the giving of orders. Must have been like the transition from Miles Per Hour speed signs to Kilometers Per Hour that took place here in Ireland a few years back.
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Using the Enterprise's is a bad example. They were all built with the latest tech of there era.
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True, but if you look at it the Prometheus' top speed is warp 9.975 while a galaxy class venture variant has a top speed of warp9.95
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To be more believable for fanfic purposes, I'd trim that number by half to one third. Three hundred ships just for that one borg attack? Starfleet would be rendered virtually defenseless between Wolf 359 & the signing of the Treaty of Bajor. Between mainstream Starfleet's losses, losses after repairing and launching the museum fleet and the frankenstein fleet in the meantime. Daystar: love your icon. got a full size version? *snix*
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Yep i do and this is the ahem censored version :) BTW this can drag oiut a large debate but a lot of people including myself conform to the belief starfleet has MILLIONS of starships (yes you heard right-MILLIONS) Its impossible for less than one million ships to cover an entire 4th of a galaxy and defend it- having only seen x amount thousand in the dominion war and the lines about being outnumbered by a few thousand dominion ships, has to be taken in by perspective, Starfleet would never be able to pull more than the amount used in the Dominion front because it would leave the other borders vulnerable to Tholians, and countless minor turf hungry races being kept in check by the starfleet ships all around the various space of the alpha quadrent. I will never in a million years believe otherwise- I don't care what was said on tv they NEVER stated the "total" number of ships in starfleet only made reference3s to xx losses= we are weakened terribly..again this can be interpreted as "in that area of the federation space". Space is far to large to be a Galactic super power with only a few hundred thousand ships, The Dominion with a few thousand ships, could still win because they would face " so many " maximum starships at any one time in battle, and the losses that starfleet DID take reflected re consolodation from cherry picking what they could spare from other fronts.
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millons? bah, that's horse hockey. even a replicator has to have rescources to work from. besides, could you imagine the size of the dang thing that'd be required to make hull plates? starships aren't exactly TINY (the refit enterprise is said to mass 195 thousand tons). no, i bet they recycle older ships to make new ones.
btw, I know where there's a whole passel of those babes daystar has censored for an icon...all the way to a ferengi chick!
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LOL! and no i dont agree its horse puckey. The federation has so many colonies spread out with each its own millions and millions of citizens, you can easily man that many starships and create building facilities.
No one will convince me otherwise notbecause i am unwilling to facvtor in sources of canon that may dispute it (which there isn't) but because its just mathematically and logically impossible to have so few ships as a "galactic level" super power. It simply is impossible, unless tyhey had instant galactica style jump engines, space is simply TO BIG! you'd have another end of the Roman empire situation spread to thin not enough manpower to support it.
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Nah, when you consider the area ships like the Enterprise-D can cover on the show, I think a number in the hundreds of thousands is more reasonable, besides they don't need ships in every single sector of explored space. Think of how often the Enterprise is the only ship in range, Starfleet would have to be spread pretty thin for that to happen so much. Besides Explored space is much less then the area of an entire quadrant. IIRC by TNG they'd only explored about 10-15% of the galaxy. Even when you factor in Civilian ships, I think the fleet strength is probably in the 4-6 hundred thousand range. If it were higher than that, losses like the Battle of Wolf 359 and the 7th fleet at the Tyra system wouldn't be as significant as they were portrayed to be.
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Well that's true about the explored space thing hundreds of thousands yes, but at the very minimal upper on that equation near a million. Star trek would be a little more buyable on that area if warp speed covered more distance IMO.
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fed space doesn't cover as many cubic light years as you think. I think the Federation has a grand total of 300 member worlds (and all of which appear to be "single Biome " planets). it's the fact that no world should have that many rescources free to make hundreds of thousands of Capital Ships. especially if, as seems to be coming out, every other sentient species is tens or hundreds of thousands of years OLDER than the human race (and that's just at the civilization generating level). the human species is between 5-7 million years old. every other species appears to be 50-70 million years old.
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You do make a valid point. I guess the thinking was based on an assumption that you have to police every square inch of controlled space, which would be a lot of empty areas.
sidenote-- here is a larger version of my avatar as asked about earlier. and a censored vsersion of the base picture after angelina jolies head was applied. I think i will edit and fix her communicator.
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you need to work with light and shadow effects too to bring her ample forms out better. :P
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There a billion things i could do. The intention was a simple avatar. Had i been going for some big wallpaper or something i would and still may do, a more blended jumpsuit with texture vs a brush painted body. And light and shadows wouldn't be the key to that..blending mode is.