Bridge Commander Central
Recreational Forums => Trek Discussion => Ships & Tech Talk => Topic started by: RCgothic on January 08, 2009, 10:32:15 AM
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In Generations, the Saucer crashed into the planet because it couldn't get away from the explosion in time.
As far as I know, no escape pods were launched. The saucer waited for the stardrive to be evacuated before undocking. This meant it got caught in the blast.
What should have happened:
#1. The saucer should have undocked immediately as it already containts the majority of the crew, getting as far clear as possible.
#2. The engineering section crew should have made their way to the nearest escape pods. An escape pod would in almost every case be closer than the saucer anyway.
#3. Escape pods could be recovered in the main shuttlebay or by transporters.
I hope the after-action report was damning. :arms:
(edited point 1 for clarity)
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You're forgetting that the only reason the Enterprise's saucer crashed into the planet was because she was close to it and while not in orbit was certainly in it's gravity well. Had the saucer section been in deep space or further away from the planet it would probably have only taken slight damage from the shockwave.
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Also, the escape pods would have gone down with the saucer and most likely ended up a splatted mess. Not advisable.
And option #1 did happen in the film anyway. They tried to stop the warp core, got people going anyway and then BLAM, warp core explosion.
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Those weren't options, they were the procedure for evacuating the star drive. From memory Alpha:
As the breach nears critical and with the crew cleared of the star-drive section, the ship separates and moves to safety. However, the core breaches prematurely, destroying the damaged drive section of the Enterprise, creating a shock wave that pushes the saucer into the atmosphere of Veridian III.
If the saucer had had more time, it would have been further away from the stardrive, and not between shockwave and planet. La Forge managed to get all the way from main engineering on deck 36 all the way to secondary hull access on deck 7. He had to get up 29 decks. There were lifeboats on deck 40, just 4 decks away.
Escape pods are also specifically DESIGNED to land on planets in the event of an emergency (as they did in first contact), something the saucer section most definitely wasn't.
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And since when does being spiffing-accurate stuff make good storylines? Everyone would live happily ever after in your scenario with something to cushion the little bumpy ride. And think about it, the core is about to explode in 3-4 mins, you've been attacked with direct hull contact, you're rattled, and the chances of escape pods working properly are low and saucer separation is the only viable option.
Also, the saucer was specifically designed to evacuate from the stardrive. It's protocol.
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What they SHOULD have done was use the transporter to beam the entire engineering crews to the saucer. But either way, the Enterprise was still too close to Veridian III and had damage to her engines, so it probably still would have been caught in the shockwave.
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The only damaged engine was the main one on the stardrive.
Oh wait, pointless argument is pointless. :P
Carry on.
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Escape pods are also specifically DESIGNED to land on planets in the event of an emergency (as they did in first contact), something the saucer section most definitely wasn't.
Unless you read the novels in which case there is a novel where the Enterprise gets a new saucer made for planet landings,
But then again novels are noncCanon so my point is invalid.
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I believe background sources did state the saucer was designed to make planetfall but had the helm controls been working they could have chosen somewhere other than a dence jungle to crash land in.
The fact no one was killed during the crash adds to that. But what a great sequence! Best and most sad part of the entire film, I don't think I was as upset when Kirk died later on!
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In any case, the blooper with Picard being beamed down to Veridian III from a FEDERATION transporter beam, stands out more in my mind.
Not to mention, the fact that they were evacuating people from Sickbay, when sickbay is already in the saucer section.
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Not to mention, the fact that they were evacuating people from Sickbay, when sickbay is already in the saucer section.
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Remeber decks 11-16 are going to take the full force of the impact when the saucer hits the ground and sickbay is on deck 12. Best thing to do is get everyone above deck 10. This is probably one of the reasons the saucer can't be salvaged as decks 12-16 become deck 11!
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Except they weren't planning on hitting the ground. ;) Hence Data's outburst.
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I think there was a small sep sickbay in the neck of the engineering section
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I think Data's outburst was more a reaction to the speed at which the ship was uncontrollably falling. The saucer was designed to make planetfall. Heck, the 1701's saucer was designed for it(what do you think those triangular sections on the underside were?). But without helm controls it went from a controlled soft landing to the typical crash landing. But even a soft landing might have incurred some damage, especially if, say, the inertial dampeners were offline, hence the decision to evacuate everyone to the upper half and closer to the center of the saucer section.
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Escape pods are also specifically DESIGNED to land on planets in the event of an emergency (as they did in first contact), something the saucer section most definitely wasn't.
Hmm... do you think, though, that they could have survived a shock wave of that magnitude? That shock wave turned the saucer section into FUBAR, forcing the crash landing... what do ya think it could do to an escape pod, given that escape pods surely can't reach even a fraction of the impulse speeds that the saucer section could? Also, gotta take the range of that shock wave into account... To me, anyways, that sounds like a lot of bloodshed to evacuate to escape pods in that circumstance...
Just my thought anyways. perhaps I'm wrong. :]
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here is my theory:
what you said makes sense but you forgot, that the scene when the saucer crashes
on the planet just looked cool and was something special( atleast i think the authors thinked like that)
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Not to mention, the fact that they were evacuating people from Sickbay, when sickbay is already in the saucer section.
yeah I think they were taking the wounded to emergency crash shelters
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Hmm... do you think, though, that they could have survived a shock wave of that magnitude? That shock wave turned the saucer section into FUBAR, forcing the crash landing... what do ya think it could do to an escape pod, given that escape pods surely can't reach even a fraction of the impulse speeds that the saucer section could? Also, gotta take the range of that shock wave into account... To me, anyways, that sounds like a lot of bloodshed to evacuate to escape pods in that circumstance...
Forgive my darkness, but that sounds like it would be awesome for a really dark episode. Crew abandons ship in life boats and saucer, only to have the crew in the pods be wiped out by the resulting shock wave.
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Ya know, thats just nasty. Captain Picard would never let the producers come up with that sort of thing. I suppose in the TrekNiverse, if enough of the crew was killed, the Captain could go up on court-martial for loss of crew and ship (happened to Picard after the Battle of Maxia except without the crew problems).
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Not to mention, the fact that they were evacuating people from Sickbay, when sickbay is already in the saucer section.
Remeber decks 11-16 are going to take the full force of the impact when the saucer hits the ground and sickbay is on deck 12. Best thing to do is get everyone above deck 10. This is probably one of the reasons the saucer can't be salvaged as decks 12-16 become deck 11!
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i would like to point out that the sickbay deck in the galaxy class was in the neck just above the torpedo room not in the saucer it was later put in the saucer during the ds9 refits as the saucers were more armour at that time
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I really need to pull out my Galaxy Class Blueprints.... I'm sure I found 3 specific areas where there were medical bays. 1 in the neck and 2 in the saucer.
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As far as I remember the escape pods are design for rapid departure from a ship, even in the event of a warp breech. I think that was Mr Scotts guide.
Anyway what use is a escape pod if you can not use it to get away from the ship in a darn hurry.
So yes I'm with the why the hell climb through the star drive section when you could easily escape in a pod. Also there are 2 shuttle bays in the dorsal why not jump in one of those as well.
Perhaps it is like the Titanic they thought she was undistructable so the escape pod hatches were only cosmetic?
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what are you guys overanalyzing this for? this was a Plot-related idiot ball carried by the whole crew. yeesh. and, btw, i didn't know galaxies HAD escape pods till I saw them on the models, here, even though i actually ALSO own a copy of the Galaxy blueprints.
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I don't think an escape pod would be able to survive a warp core breach blast. And even if it did, they'd be sent flying out of control.
And whats cooler, escape pods or splitting the ship in half? :P
And another thing to remember, ship captains get court-martialed if they lose there ship. Better bring back half a ship than none at all.
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If you want to get technical with physics, that explosion would have had less effect on the lifeboats than it would the saucer due to the size. The outside edge of the boats is also armored. They could have turned around and pointed the heavier sections towards the blast.
Better answer? Special effects were not advanced to the point of being able to render that level of detail on a physical model. Which is a major reason they went combination physical and CGI for First Contact.
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Another thing to consider would be the time it takes to get everyone into the escape pods. Considering you'll have to decide who goes where into what and making sure they're inside safely and ready to launch. With a saucer seperation, all you have to do is get everyone past a cut-off point and then you can detach ASAP. Then you can consider strapping everyone down.
And also how fast can an escape pod go? They don't have 2 huge impulse engines.
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Well they never showed us life boat drill though they all seemed to know where to go in FC and when they had to get off the Defiant in a hurry. So I guess they have them.
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The saucer section also has its own shields too, that would help protect it against it from a blast. I think it depends on time though, in the time loop episode, they needed to get off the enterprise in a hurry so Picard told everyone to get to the escape pods, cause the enterprise was about to explode. I would rather take my chances in a pod then on a ship thats about to explode, but if I had the time I would much rather be on the saucer section with shields, long range communition, impulse engines and phasers just in case.
They had the time to evacuate everyone to the saucer section, the saucer section had shields, yea maybe the escape pods would have gotten clear, but I would rather be on the saucer. I would imagine in any emergancy situation I would imagine they would try to move everyone to the middle of the saucer for maximum protection.
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I also recall thinking-"Why Will-why- did You order Deanna to Pilot? YOUR supposed to be the best pilot on the ship, according to that 2 part episode with Picard being tortured by the cardassians with the four lights gimmick--so why did you not just take the damned Helm yourself dude? LOL.
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perhaps with everything else in Generations the escape pods were not due till Tuesday!!!
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LOL this Guy is Hilarious in his review of how RETARDED Generations really was.
He makes a great point. EVEN w/o it's shields, Enterprise should have been able to easily overpower that Bird of Prey.
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Yeah, There's what I would have done RC :P. Had I been Picard, I would have just punched Sore-ron in Ten Forward...and be done with it...no saucer sep, no saucer crash, no warp core breech, etc :D
AKA: Dude in vid above me has a point!
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you guys should check out that reviewrs star wars reviews
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I watched his star wars they are Hilarious :) and its so funny the Holes he finds in first contact, insurrection and Nemesis to.
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I watched his star wars they are Hilarious :) and its so funny the Holes he finds in first contact, insurrection and Nemesis to.
Nemesis was just one big hole, I think.
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LoL yeah although FC was the best out of TNG movies it was soooo flawed plot wise, Insurrection and Nemesis was always considered poor movies... I love when that guy bashes Picard attitude changes and his aggressive acting :funny
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LoL yeah although FC was the best out of TNG movies it was soooo flawed plot wise
Time travel-oriented storylines generally tend to be a risky move. (Unless, of course, it's Doctor Who or something.) That's probably why Star Trek IV was probably the least popular of the trilogy-within-the-series that began with Wrath of Khan. Even though I still kinda liked some bits of it...