Bridge Commander Central
Recreational Forums => Trek Discussion => Films & Shows => Topic started by: hobbs on August 12, 2014, 10:02:16 AM
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So I saw a report that says JJ Abrams wont be directing the next trek. A guy call Roberto Orci is taking over.
is this good?
I'm guessing less lense flare lol
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He's done a lot of producing but this will be his first directing job. I hope he can pull it off.
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Let's be real, can it get any worse. :-p
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well im hoping that they change the ships design to something less jj ish... they could even have spock change the direction of ship design back towards (but not the same as) the Prime Universe.
also spock can give any and all info to the alternate universe as it wont impact the temporal prime directive due to the future not having been written in the jj verse.
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Save for jumping into the TMP era, they won't change the design as there's no reason for them to. Accept it and move on. At the end of the day, it's superficial. Spock stated in the last movie his reasons for not divulging any information. The future "not being written" would make it even more dangerous to reveal anything. There's no certainty for him. As time doesn't exist as one point, the rest of the timeline exists and him saying anything could hugely screw it up just as much as when Nero destroyed Vulcan.
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i wasn't meaning to bash the designs just indicating a personal preference, sorry.
as for the revealing info... are you saying he cant as it will screw up the future of this jj verse? that (to me) makes no sense as that universe has no future at present. i mean the new reality was created at the point in the past of the prime verse where the nerada appeared. at that moment a new reality and new time line began so there is no "tomorrow" to mess up.
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I'm guess that as Robert was one of the writers for the last two films he will stick to the same story style and be a 5 year mission based movie.
I cannot see him being able as a first time director to be able to change the look to much and nor should he like or not this style is here to stay even if JJ has gone.
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I can understand people not liking the designs, there's plenty of of canon designs that are terrible. It's just that it's now 5 years later and people are still beating the same horse.
as for the revealing info... are you saying he cant as it will screw up the future of this jj verse? that (to me) makes no sense as that universe has no future at present. i mean the new reality was created at the point in the past of the prime verse where the nerada appeared. at that moment a new reality and new time line began so there is no "tomorrow" to mess up.
Of course it has a future. Just as we have a future. If we didn't, there'd be no tomorrow. Time isn't physical, it's perception. Past, present and future exist all at once, it's the only way it can work. Saying that there is no written future is the same as saying there is no written past. Which is ridiculous, because we know otherwise. The only difference between past and future is that we've perceived one and not the other.
It's like pausing a move half way through. You've seen the first half and know what it is, you haven't seen the second half yet but know that it must be there for you to watch.
When Nero destroyed the Kelvin, it made a new, different timeline. The timeline would then be altered again when Spock came through years later, because it would be an outside influence. The temporal directive would still very much apply.
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Americans still have a hate-on for the JJprise due to our general distaste for curves on vehicles. Normally, Starships seem to reflect the design aesthetics for cars of the era they were designed in.
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Ironically I like the fleet, ever since WC made the fleet pack it has really grown on me.
The only ones I find way over the top were Neros ship the Narada, the Vulcan Jelly Fish and the new Enterprise. The fleet IMHO is a little more realistic in terms of the military using designs that have purpose so they look rugged, engines huge, str8 to the point. Not the flashy we are rich kind of designs that IMO should be like on a private corporate transport etc...
But back on topic, I'm sure we will see the new Excelsior or Miranda at least prototype or in actual service.
I'm thinking more Klingon and maybe Romulans too. Although it be nice to see if they push the boundaries this time and make something new in terms of ideas.
Maybe a Gorn or a Tholian plot. Hmmm regardless I think he will be a new fresh breath of air.
A friend of mine suggested they could do mirror mirror but instead of the new enterprise being mirrored it can actually be the old enterprise in an alternate reality so the Trekkies who really hate the new movies could get a tid bit of what they wanted but with a twist. The possibilities are endless but like everyone I hope we get a sneak peek trailer soon.
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I didn't really like what happened to STID, movie itself was poorly written and had some really lazy plot devices... I really liked ST XI, it seemed fun and TBH it was whole lot better than Insurrection or Nemesis. As for the ships, I liked them all except for Vengence :P
As for ST XIII, if Orci delivers the same sort of nonsense writing as it was in Into Darkness then I'm affraid it won't be any better than the Amazing Spiderman 2 ;)
I hope to see more grown up crew, preferably after the 5 years mission, plot with klingons maybe ;)
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Forgot about the Vengeance. Smh.
I will say the Klingon tease got me. He did make them even more intimidating with the new outfits and face mask. I was not too fond of the Klingon ship either. Found it weird, seeing all the originals, then becoming familiar with SFC and SFBs it just didn't compute in my head but I'm hoping for the best.
Anyways, has anyone found any info as to possible plots, ships, story arcs, anything. Seems to me like everyone has their mouth shut on this one.
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hopefully, we won't get yet another rehash of a TOS/TMP series plot...but I have a distinct feeling we're gonna see the one with the whales...AGAIN!
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Whales!...... whales!....... Ehhh
:-/
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I really like the Klingon ships. You must remember that they're very small attack vessels, runabout sized. We don't even know if they're space worthy. Expecting it to look like a smaller B'rel/K'tinga/Raptor would be like imagining a runabout to have a little tiny saucer, secondary hull, or top-mounted bridge.
Now here's an argument that I think isn't thrown about often enough - There is so much diversity in aesthetics, appearance, language, and culture on just our planet alone, so why should we expect every alien planet out there to be a "planet of hats" as it's said? Huge props to Neville Page for dicing up the Klingon formula some more - the way it was, I could say "Klingons are tough broad-shouldered warrior types with dreadlocked black hair and forehead ridges." It's almost as bad as saying humans are "blonde haired white skinned smooth browed creatures." Alien bio-diversity in fiction way too rarely reflects the same level of diversity as what we have here on Earth.
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Not to mention that the cultures aren't always diverse.
I really liked the D4, it was a cool ship.
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Best it ever gets on alien planets in Star Trek is two continent-countries who have been warring for decades over a trivial difference, like wearing socks or something stupid like that.
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People... wear socks?
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yes ... you wanna start a war ? :D
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Hell yeah!! I'll pummel you with my towel!!
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Hell yeah!! I'll pummel you with my towel!!
You..have a towel? Just one towel?!
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Add a suitcase of over-confidence and a screwdriver.
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Someone's gonna get hurt... soon :D with my socks :D
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Think that's good enough with the offtopic spam for now.
Hobbs, I updated the topic title to match the previous "Trek XII" thread, as well as stickied for future usage. Hope you don't mind :)
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Think that's good enough with the offtopic spam for now.
Hobbs, I updated the topic title to match the previous "Trek XII" thread, as well as stickied for future usage. Hope you don't mind :)
no problem :)
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On topic, I think it may be a bit early to speculate on plot, release date etc. What we do know, is that Paramount wants the movie out sometime in 2016 (to coincide with Trek 50th), and that Roberto Orci is likely the Director of the movie. A first script has been completed, but no details about the plot as of yet. Mr Orci has suggested that he wants the crew to get "out and explore" in the next movie.
Personally, I hope it's a truly unique story, and not a rehash of a past movie.
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I wouldn't mind nods and the like, but an original story would be better. Show us something Trek hasn't done before. What would be great is if they could not have a bad guy, but I doubt that the Studio Execs would allow that.
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Yep, even tho, STXI was a new story, STID failed just like Nemesis to retell the same story we know from TWOK, both movies missed the point and ended up too flashy, focused on action...
I do hope to see some characters from TOS, maybe not as major characters but even as small details in whole picture, like Mudd's shuttle and a tribble in STID :P Kruge wouold be cool to appear for a moment ;)
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Agreed a new story would be great.... also I'd like to know what the fleet were doing in the larenchian system in the first film.
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Americans still have a hate-on for the JJprise due to our general distaste for curves on vehicles. Normally, Starships seem to reflect the design aesthetics for cars of the era they were designed in.
...I love curves on vehicles. I've always preferred sleek vehicles.
Yep, even tho, STXI was a new story, STID failed just like Nemesis to retell the same story we know from TWOK, both movies missed the point and ended up too flashy, focused on action...
Personally, and I know I'm going to get some hate for this...but I think Cumberbatch's Khan in STID was better than Montalban's Khan in TWOK. I honestly think that Montalban forgot that Khan was originally a manipulative bastard, not a bloodthirsty maniac.
As for the new movie, I hope that Orci takes it a little slower with this one.
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Yep, even tho, STXI was a new story, STID failed just like Nemesis to retell the same story we know from TWOK, both movies missed the point and ended up too flashy, focused on action...
I do hope to see some characters from TOS, maybe not as major characters but even as small details in whole picture, like Mudd's shuttle and a tribble in STID :P Kruge wouold be cool to appear for a moment ;)
What would be awesome, is to see John deLancie in the next movie, portraying this universe's "Trelane", who was quite Q-like. I know he's said that he didn't want to play "Q" again, because the character is supposed to be ageless. But perhaps Trelane? :)
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What would be awesome, is to see John deLancie in the next movie, portraying this universe's "Trelane", who was quite Q-like. I know he's said that he didn't want to play "Q" again, because the character is supposed to be ageless. But perhaps Trelane? :)
lol but Q can do what he wants so he could decide to be non-ageless for a bit lol
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I've always felt that the Q character was inspired by Trelane. Post TNG era books have said that Trelane was a part of the continuum, which I like the idea of. I suppose he could even have been a young Q.
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Also, the fact that Q has already been playing mischief with the "new crew" in comic form, may possibly influence somewhat on the next movie (one could hope) :P
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Also, the fact that Q has already been playing mischief with the "new crew" in comic form, may possibly influence somewhat on the next movie (one could hope) :P
Mischief is an understatement.
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I've always felt that the Q character was inspired by Trelane. Post TNG era books have said that Trelane was a part of the continuum, which I like the idea of. I suppose he could even have been a young Q.
Q Squared was the name of the novel. Trelane tries to outdo his dad in meddling with the universe.
make the Irony even bigger...have Trelane played by Keegan De Lancie!
shadowknight: the curves remind people of the "aerodynamics" on 80's american slushbox sedans...underpowered and heavy.
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Americans still have a hate-on for the JJprise due to our general distaste for curves on vehicles. Normally, Starships seem to reflect the design aesthetics for cars of the era they were designed in.
Oi! I'm a Brit and I dislike the JJprise! :P
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And I'm Swedish, and only partially dislike the JJprise :P
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I'm American and I love the JJPrise! More people would love it too if rebooting Star Trek wasn't such a very butt-hurt-inducing idea for lots of fans.
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Also, the fact that Q has already been playing mischief with the "new crew" in comic form, may possibly influence somewhat on the next movie (one could hope) :P
Great comic.
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I'm American and I love the JJPrise! More people would love it too if rebooting Star Trek wasn't such a very butt-hurt-inducing idea for lots of fans.
Or if they actually made a reboot with more substance, and less flash (no pun intended)
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Or if they actually made a reboot with more substance, and less flash (no pun intended)
Ugh, I am so sick of hearing that. ST2009 certainly had a lot more substance than that other POS sci-fi movie that came out the same year. STID had a great villain in Khan and IMO, Chris Pine totally OWNED his death scene. Heck, unlike Spock, he knew he didn't have an "out". He knew going in that he was dead. But he knew that if he didn't, everyone would die. That's the sacrifice of not only a good captain, but a good human being.
Nothing against you DT, but it seems no matter where I go, I keep seeing those same old arguments thrown at the Abrams movies. They're getting old to me, just like the complaints about Man of Steel or Transformers.
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Its weird, I really enjoyed Into Darkness the first 2 times I watched it.
But now for some reason going back to it, I cannot finish it. I think all the negative comments got to me.
I can still re-watch XI fine though.
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Nothing against you DT, but it seems no matter where I go, I keep seeing those same old arguments thrown at the Abrams movies. They're getting old to me, just like the complaints about Man of Steel or Transformers.
None taken. Honestly, I was pretty supportive of the JJ Abrams version of Trek up until Star Trek Into Darkness. When he kept insisting that the villain was NOT Khan, repeatedly, and the villain turned out to be Khan anyways, left a rather sour taste in my mouth. There are several issues with both of his movies, but I still find them "entertaining" enough. However they aren't "Star Trek" enough in my opinion. And rehashing Wrath of Khan, was a big let down for me. They went through the effort of rebooting the franchise, putting events in an alternate timeline, only to repeat events that already happened? The point of setting it in a different timeline, was to "free up" the possibility of telling new stories.
The only difference with Into Darkness vs Wrath, is Khan's motivation. He's still the same genocidal mad man, wanting to kill anyone and everyone who stands in his way. Nothing we haven't seen before. Kirk's death scene (while very well played by Chris Pine) was a mirrored carbon copy of Spock's death scene. Spock may have had an "out" by transferring his Katra to McCoy, but he had no knowledge of his future "rebirth" on the Genesis planet. To that end, both Kirk and Spock effectively knew going in, it would be a death sentence. At least in the old movies, they had enough patience to wait until the NEXT movie, before reviving Spock. Kirk's death had no meaning, when he was effectively revived 5 minutes later.
Not gonna go into the countless number of plot-holes and inconsistencies, as they would be too numerous to fit a forum post (without seeming like a longer wall of text than my current post) :)
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My ideas...
Q/Trelane
battle ON the saucer(like that Kre-O commercial but in an atmosphere thats not Earths)
Ramming speed!
Enterprise getting resuced for a change by someone well known(both in-universe and real world(Tim Allen ftw))
seeing a god damn toilet/bathroom! lol
No matter what they do the events of the first two movies have had quite an effect on the Klingons. Them getting bitch slapped by the Narada and then the early detonation of Praxis should have them going for a major "land" grab sooner than later. In every direction. One would think so.
But thats just me.
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I am currently watching Fringe, one of JJ's TV projects. weird is in JJ's style. I'd have expected anything if I'd have heard of the guy BEFORE the reboot movies.
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Well, it almost happened the first time around(and would of worked very well) but, now it absolutely is happening for the third outing.
Shat is back!
How exactly? He will be Jim Kirk but NOT the one that died in the Nexus. It seems he will be playing the future version of Pine's Kirk. Also, Nimoy is apparently back as well also as the future version of Quinto's Spock. Then again we still might see Spock prime too.
Here is a good idea of the how and why...
The B never encounters the Nexus because of so many changes leading up to that time.
Kirk maybe narrowly escapes death(in a totally different situation) and he and Spock are the only survivors.
Which causes an already bad situation(on a galactic level even?) to become much worse.(Think Armada and the Premonition story, they have no choice BUT to go back in time)
Go back in time to find their younger selves.
Correct what they need to so this grim future doesn't happen while still having older Kirk "die" on the B but actually die in the Nexus.
Younger crew continues on their journey.
Cue credits.
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None of the above has been confirmed, anywhere 086gf. So it's either pure speculation, or wishful thinking on your part. All we know is that they've discussed including Shatner in the next movie in some capacity, but what capacity that is, and if he'll actually be in the movie, has yet to be confirmed. And likely won't be, until closer to release (in 2016).
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Whoa
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None of the above has been confirmed, anywhere 086gf. So it's either pure speculation, or wishful thinking on your part. All we know is that they've discussed including Shatner in the next movie in some capacity, but what capacity that is, and if he'll actually be in the movie, has yet to be confirmed. And likely won't be, until closer to release (in 2016).
Turns out that tweet was indeed him just saying that he was back home from Europe. Understandable though when Orci and others behind the scene were already bringing him up so much the last few months and then Shatner suddenly posts the tweet and everyone automatically made the connection.
But on another front...there is this from "John Harrison" himself at 0:50. The crowds reaction to his very quick answer followed by his fidgety silent response. He knows something.
t=91
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:-/
I'll save the money for something else this time, no point in paying for yet another disappointment. 0.50's response was all I needed. Ty kind sir for saving me money and time.
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So...Orci, a noted Trekkie at heart, is out as director. In his place is Justin Lin who has directed a few of the Fast and Furious movies. I was cautiously optimistic about Bob Orci. But when someone's pedigree is a flashy, explodey action movie that looks like something Michael Bay would crap out, I'm beyond worried. Add to that the rumors that Paramount is wanting Star Trek 3 to be more like Guardians of the Galaxy, and I think this project has the worrisome potential to be the worst Trek ever. While most people tend to overlook the substance in the last two Treks, I do see it, and I'm just not sure we can get that with this new director. Yes, Orci is still writing and producing. Yes, Abrams is still producing. But that might not be enough to save it. As is my usual policy, I'll wait for the trailer before making a decision regarding when/if I see the movie, but it's not looking good in my opinion.
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I share your concerns. After all, one of the worst "old Trek" movies ever made, was directed by a nobody who had no experience directing Trek (Stuart Baird on Nemesis).
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Well, doesn't take much to reinspire hope. Simon Pegg, aka. Scotty, is on board as a co-writer. He is noted as a huge fan of the franchise, so hopefully he can help give us the slower, less Star Wars-y Trek we've been waiting for.
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Just FYI, some rumours regarding the current movie situation. There were guy named Para Mobius who was making comments on various sites, including (IIRC) TrekMovie way back in September or so. IIRC, 3 of his rumours have borne out to be true:
- Bob Orci's script has been rejected.
- Bob Orci has been fired as writer.
- Bob Orci has been fired as director.
Long story short, according to further rumours by this guy, because a contract between Paramount and CBS to produce these movies has run out, CBS will announce a new Trek series sometime in the new year that will not take place in the Abrams universe. So far, this hasn't happened yet but the year is young.
As for this new movie, it's seems to be a bit of a clusterf**k, pardon my language. Basically, it seems that the announcements being made regarding writers and potential villains (Bryan Cranston, etc.) are not from Paramount, so they haven't been "officially" confirmed. There's a lot of reports but little confirmation so far. It's unclear whether the film can even make the release deadline given the shenanigans with Orci.
So...Orci, a noted Trekkie at heart, is out as director.
A noted Trekkie who didn't know who David Gerrold was...
and I like this article cuz I never heard of this guy. Nice to learn about him. - Bob Orci
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The only difference with Into Darkness vs Wrath, is Khan's motivation.
And the fact that Into Darkness Khan was really stupid and had stupid motivations. My favourite unintentional comedy part is when he "forced' Spock to beam the armed and active torpedoes (that Spock could easily explode) onto the Dreadnaught,
"You WILL throw that Molotov cocktail containing my wallet into my house right now."
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Other stupid inconsistencies as well...
Can't beam Spock or Khan off the moving platform, but we can sure as hell beam Uhura down. Say what?
Besides the fact that Kirk's maneuver to "fix" the warp core made no logical or physical sense at all, they cheapened his "death" by reviving him 2 minutes later, using Khan's "magic blood". At least with Spock in the original Wrath of Khan, they actually killed him, and kept him dead until the next movie.
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Other stupid inconsistencies as well...
Can't beam Spock or Khan off the moving platform, but we can sure as hell beam Uhura down. Say what?
Besides the fact that Kirk's maneuver to "fix" the warp core made no logical or physical sense at all, they cheapened his "death" by reviving him 2 minutes later, using Khan's "magic blood". At least with Spock in the original Wrath of Khan, they actually killed him, and kept him dead until the next movie.
He should of aimed for transporting them from the moving barge to Qonos, yup that'll do. It would have worked painlessly.
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Besides the fact that Kirk's maneuver to "fix" the warp core made no logical or physical sense at all, they cheapened his "death" by reviving him 2 minutes later, using Khan's "magic blood". At least with Spock in the original Wrath of Khan, they actually killed him, and kept him dead until the next movie.
Yep, I have to say that was the most awkward theatre moment I ever had. It started out as "wow, this seems really familiar... are they really going to do this?" Which led to "yep, they are actually going to do this". The entire scene, I just wanted to laugh. Regardless of how good the acting was, the writing and setup was so bad that scene effectively sabotaged itself (although the story was already sabotaged, but at least the direction/acting was ok enough for me to enjoy myself). During the entire death scene, I basically thought "well they'll bring him back with the obviously previously established magic blood, I don't want to sit through this". Then Spock yells KHAN... [golfclap], ending with a stupid chase scene and even more stupid "lesson" speech at the end ("revenge is bad, we shouldn't be consumed by it - even though neither myself or any other character actually gave into revenge").
As one of my favourite reviewers, when told that the theme of the movie was "revenge", said, "If you want to say that the theme of movie was stupidity, I'm all for that".
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He should of aimed for transporting them from the moving barge to Qonos, yup that'll do. It would have worked painlessly.
Yep. I love it when these writers casually introduce a overly-powerful plot device without thought to the consequences to the story and future stories.
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I dont know if this has been covered already, but Orci was the one who co-wrote the terrible reboots... I have little to no hope for a restoration of the timeline at this point.. its all going downhill fast...
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Yep. I love it when these writers casually introduce a overly-powerful plot device without thought to the consequences to the story and future stories.
But technically they did. The long range beaming was introduced in the last movie. They beamed from Delta Vega to the Enterprise. They reused the plot element in ITD.
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But technically they did. The long range beaming was introduced in the last movie. They beamed from Delta Vega to the Enterprise. They reused the plot element in ITD.
Delta Vega to Enterprise was relatively nearby. Earth to Qo'nos (which is based on real-life Omega Leonis), is 112 lightyears away. It took the Enterprise (NX-01) 4 days at Warp 4.5 to reach them, it took Khan 2 seconds.
What's the point of starships, when you have Transwarp Beaming? Stupid technology is stupid. And I for one am glad that the writers (and director) have all been removed from further Trek movies.
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I remember when I didn't catch the line at first while watching ITD in cinema, then I watched it second time and I laughed my ass off when heard abour magic transporter device that get's you from Earth to Qo'nos :D
Damn, in Nemesis trasporting without pad was almost impossible so Geordi had to come up with magic pocket transporter, but since JJ set both characters and tech to overload, now you don't need ship to travel across galaxy, not even transporter pad to travel ridiculous distances... do you remember days when Trek transporters required huge emiters, enormous pattern buffers, it was hard to get a lock on target and everything could disrupt them ? :P
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But technically they did. The long range beaming was introduced in the last movie. They beamed from Delta Vega to the Enterprise. They reused the plot element in ITD.
Yes, and it doesn't change the fact that writers don't understand the consquence of introducing such an uber-technology to the universe. It's just as story-sabotaging as the magic blood. Like Darkthunder says, it makes the idea of starships almost obsolete. The fact they used it again is more like double-downing on a horrible mistake then establishing continuity. It'd be like if Brannon Braga refrenced "Threshold" over and over in Voyager scripts after that episode.
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I remember when I didn't catch the line at first while watching ITD in cinema, then I watched it second time and I laughed my ass off when heard abour magic transporter device that get's you from Earth to Qo'nos :D
Damn, in Nemesis trasporting without pad was almost impossible so Geordi had to come up with magic pocket transporter, but since JJ set both characters and tech to overload, now you don't need ship to travel across galaxy, not even transporter pad to travel ridiculous distances... do you remember days when Trek transporters required huge emiters, enormous pattern buffers, it was hard to get a lock on target and everything could disrupt them ? :P
Transporter technology has always been rather fluid. Even in TNG, there were times where someone was beamed from a planet either directly to the bridge or sickbay, so it doesn't bother me one bit. Though they could have explained it by one plot element through Admiral Marcus. Khan could've used a network of Section 31 transporter relays. That would've been better, IMO.
Khan's so-called "magic blood" isn't magic. Even in "Space Seed" McCoy commented on Khan's recuperative abilities. The only reason Kirk was able to be revived was because he was barely dead. Personally, I found Kirk's sacrifice well done. Unlike Spock, he didn't have an "out". He had no katra to pass on. You could see it in his eyes before he slugged Scotty. He knew he was going to die. Granted, I wish they'd have used some makeup on Pine like they did with Nimoy.
Now, I haven't heard anything about Orci being removed from the ST3 staff altogether, but I am more than a little wary of the new director. Simon Pegg writing gives me hope, but all these rumors about Paramount wanting it to have some elements of Guardians of the Galaxy worries me. Studio and executive meddling can totally ruin this movie.
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^^ At the time, Spock didn't have an "out" either. Until STIII, there was no such thing as a Katra.
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^^ At the time, Spock didn't have an "out" either. Until STIII, there was no such thing as a Katra.
That was actually the only reason behind the "Remember" scene was to GIVE Spock an out just in case Nimoy wanted to come back.
Also, I hope that with Abrams only in a producing role that we'll have far fewer lens flares.
EDIT: Recently read some comments from Simon Pegg about how he wants to get back to the positivity of Star Trek as well as the exploration. That's what I've been wanting since 2009.