Bridge Commander Central
Recreational Forums => Trek Discussion => Ships & Tech Talk => Topic started by: Dalek on September 05, 2008, 12:34:10 PM
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I've always thought the Luna class USS Titan to be canon cos the winning design (it was a competition for those who don't know) is recognised by Paramount and they are major Trekkie copywright owners and stuff. But i have also read that people don't think it's canon because we haven't seen it on TV. But its in books. The New Frontier books are considered non-canon but the Excalibur is canon, right to the bit when it got blown up. So who's to say that the Titan is uncanon when the producers and company recognise as, well...canon?
I believe this may become a flame war as...well... canon talks usually end up like that. But its good to hear people's opinion.
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i think the general rule is that if it is on screen it is canon, if not then it is not canon.
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i think the general rule is that if it is on screen it is canon, if not then it is not canon.
100% correct
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Spot on. And to get in before it: When one part of canon contradicts another, it's usually the newer one that is canon. But that's a mind bender.
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Hmm. But thing is though, the Connie refit (just one of the many examples) is recognised by Paramount but so is the Titan and all the other Luna class ships. The only truly canon thing about the Titan is that we know that Riker commands her. I suppose the Luna version is the "closest" to canon we'll ever get to her. It could be argued the same with other BC USS Titan's (I love LC's interpretaion) but cos there is only one "published" version, then... who knows?
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This was on screen (of sorts), does it make the ship cannon?
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no
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This was on screen (of sorts), does it make the ship cannon?
Not. Even. Close. Use you head man.
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Personally I hate Luna design it's ugly as hell, the best Titan would be something like Galaxy class refit and the best existing candidate for it is Mnemosyne class, I found that ship one of the best Galaxy like designs ever made. If they ever would be up to make canon Titan they should make it something like Galaxy and so I never considered Luna class to be the true Titan cuz I simply don't like it ;)
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well the luna is wiley's texturing wip, right?
I really like the design nice and smooth...
but I wouldnt choose her for a canon titan as well we could need sth like the century for an early 25th century ship
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I downloaded a ship uss titan a while ago, its a mnemosyth (sorry arent sure of spelling!!!) class ship, similar to a remoddeled galaxy and looks sweet, when all said and done what ships someone releases under what name is fully up to them, i came across one once called the uss buttercup!!!
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I thought Cpt Russell had a locked thread on a WIP Luna. Let me investigate Wiley's one...
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Personally I hate Luna design it's ugly as hell, the best Titan would be something like Galaxy class refit and the best existing candidate for it is Mnemosyne class, I found that ship one of the best Galaxy like designs ever made. If they ever would be up to make canon Titan they should make it something like Galaxy and so I never considered Luna class to be the true Titan cuz I simply don't like it ;)
Wholeheartedly don't agree. The Luna design is very nice. I do agree the the Mnemosyne class is excellent but, the Luna design IMHO is just as nice... just different.
And yes, Cpt. Russell is/was working on the Titan but haven't heard anything about it in quite a while.
BTW, even though "when on screen - it's considered canon" is usually the norm, I've read several articles from even Paramount people that state that the Luna Class is considered canon due to the fact that Paramount owned Pocket books is the one that started the design contest in the first place and so therefore, an "exception" was made and the Titan is considered for all intents and purposes "Canon".
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I thought Cpt Russell had a locked thread on a WIP Luna. Let me investigate Wiley's one...
Wiley's working on Kaden's USS Serenity, *not* the Luna. The Luna is like a miniaturized Mithra... or vise/versa, the Mithra is like a super-sized Luna with fries and extra cheese...
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I thought Cpt Russell had a locked thread on a WIP Luna. Let me investigate Wiley's one...
Wiley's working on Kaden's USS Serenity, *not* the Luna. The Luna is like a miniaturized Mithra... or vise/versa, the Mithra is like a super-sized Luna with fries and extra cheese...
hehe. Looking forward to the Mithra. I must admit, I like the Mnemosyne version but it doesn't fit in with the rest of late TNG/Post Nemesis. You know, no stubby necks that hold up huge saucers. This is the Post-Nem era and the Luna (and the Mithra as well) fit perfectly into that line. Ships that don't have stubby necks are:
Excalibur
Sovereign
Defiant
Steamrunner (not so sure about this one though)
Akira
You get the idea? The Luna fits the bill. It's recognised by Paramount because A) they started a flipping contest so they could let the peeps design a different ship, B) They own Star Trek rights.
The only thing I don't like about the Luna is its impulse engines. Disgusting things if you don't mind me saying so.
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The Luna is official (it's featured in the covers of the novels, there's a model of it), but not canon unless Paramount states otherwise.
And it's ugly.
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The Luna is official (it's featured in the covers of the novels, there's a model of it), but not canon unless Paramount states otherwise.
corrected and qft
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Not a part of the official collection which was featured in any of the movies or series.
not canon, no matter what ever the book reading fanboys want to say. :arms:
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Not a part of the official collection which was featured in any of the movies or series.
not canon, no matter what ever the book reading fanboys want to say. :arms:
QFT!
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I like the Luna regardless. I always thought a cool timeline would be:
NX -> Bonaventure -> Akira -> Luna -> Mithra & Ancheron...
Idk. Just always thought it would fit well. I like the ship... Cool design.
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Well, books. Take the "New Frontier" series for example. In some cases, the book series has become so popular that other things have crossed into that series. I'm not quite sure what other things are but other things nonetheless.
I've always considered the Mithra to be the Luna's big sister. As for the Ancheron, I've never heard of it. Has anyone else heard of it? Is it something Aeries is working on and I haven't realised? Damn, need to be in the flow more...
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The Luna is official (it's featured in the covers of the novels, there's a model of it), but not canon unless Paramount states otherwise.
corrected and qft
I don't see anything needing to be corrected in my post 8)
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Neither do I Neo.
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I think he meant <And it's ugly> corrected and QFT ;)
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I think he meant <And it's ugly> corrected and QFT ;)
I know. The 8) was there to imply sarcasm :)
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:lol: oh I see now :P
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Shall I poll on what should be the canon Titan? Please tell me of any other designs I may not have heard of!
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Does it really matter, the answer is that there isn't one, period.
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True. But, there is a ship ot there called Titan and it might as well have a face.
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Right, the same "face" all fan made ships get. Fan made ships not canon. As beautiful of a design DJ's Enterprise F is, it isn't canon nor will it be until featured onscreen. That goes for everything.
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You spoil my fun! :D
If I did a poll, it would be about what the fans would like the Titan to look like even though they know for a fact that it'll never happen on TV.
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not that luna, please gott
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I'd vote for mnemosyne, second place for LC's galaxy evo last place for luna 8)
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Yeah, the Luna is just not a very attractive design.
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Yeah, the Luna is just not a very attractive design.
The only problem I have with the Mnemosyne is that it's not very fitting with 2380 onwards (which I have mentioned before) and, the deflector dish looks like someone squeezed someone cheeks to make your mouth look like a fish.
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and, the deflector dish looks like someone squeezed someone cheeks to make your mouth look like a fish.
lol interesting description, tho i see the point youre making :P
ya, that deflector does seem a little out of place for the rest of the ship, IMO...
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Yeah they could have made it more like sovereign or even intrepid style deflector cuz the one in mnemosyne looks exactly like unnaturally narrowed lips or simply fish mouth but still it's the best looking Titan out there
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honestly, that is the only thing about that ship which makes me reluctant to ever really use it... i love the rest of the ship, but that deflector is tough to get over...
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So I think someone should remodel the deflector and refresh a little bit texturing :D
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that would be sweet :)
(if they could get permission to do so anyway...)
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that would be sweet :)
(if they could get permission to do so anyway...)
Or just build the whole thing from scratch...? ;)
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That's basically making another Titan. Although it's all nice ideas. Did ZZ make the Mnemosyne? On the webbysite it says he exported it, not made it so it's not very clear who made it.
Fish.
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Wicked Zombie was the original author (i think)...
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Maybe I should make a USS-Titan Mithra Class variant...? :3
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Sounds cool! :D
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get the mithra done first, the last thing you need to do is take on 78,651 projects all at once and not be able to finish any of them :P
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get the mithra done first, the last thing you need to do is take on 78,651 projects all at once and not be able to finish any of them :P
Yeeeaaaahhhh... Guess I kinda tend to do that...
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Personally, I wish the saucer of the Luna was wider, the warp engines further out and the sensor pod a lot bigger.
Oh, apparently Wesley Crusher returned to Starfleet, is a Lieutenant Commander and is Chief Engineer of the Titan. I call that more canon than anything else about the Titan. http://trekweb.com/articles/2008/02/05/John-Logan-on-the-Deleted-Lt-Commander-Wesley-Crusher-Cameo-in-Nemesis.shtml
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Personally, I wish the saucer of the Luna was wider, the warp engines further out and the sensor pod a lot bigger.
Oh, apparently Wesley Crusher returned to Starfleet, is a Lieutenant Commander and is Chief Engineer of the Titan. I call that more canon than anything else about the Titan. http://trekweb.com/articles/2008/02/05/John-Logan-on-the-Deleted-Lt-Commander-Wesley-Crusher-Cameo-in-Nemesis.shtml
Once again... not on the final cut, not canon.
Hell, In a deleted cut in generations, Kirk and Soran beat the Sh*t out of each other until Kirk was shot in the back and died.
Canon?
No.
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Personally, I wish the saucer of the Luna was wider, the warp engines further out and the sensor pod a lot bigger.
Oh, apparently Wesley Crusher returned to Starfleet, is a Lieutenant Commander and is Chief Engineer of the Titan. I call that more canon than anything else about the Titan. http://trekweb.com/articles/2008/02/05/John-Logan-on-the-Deleted-Lt-Commander-Wesley-Crusher-Cameo-in-Nemesis.shtml
Yeah but he isn't the CE in the novels.
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Personally, I wish the saucer of the Luna was wider, the warp engines further out and the sensor pod a lot bigger.
Oh, apparently Wesley Crusher returned to Starfleet, is a Lieutenant Commander and is Chief Engineer of the Titan. I call that more canon than anything else about the Titan. http://trekweb.com/articles/2008/02/05/John-Logan-on-the-Deleted-Lt-Commander-Wesley-Crusher-Cameo-in-Nemesis.shtml
Yeah but he isn't the CE in the novels.
That's why I now believe that he novels aren't canon enough. :D
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I personally think the Luna class is nice-looking. And quite honestly, it's hard to tell a convincing exploration story in a floating city like the Galaxy. A smaller more spartan ship makes more sense to me.
As far as being canon, I'm pretty sure it is not, but should be. I know a lot of the old novels are ridiculous and contradictory. but the post-nemesis novels are all carefully interweaved, and I think are good for canonization. Especially considering CBS/Paramount seems to have no interest in moving forward with Star Trek, instead offering a Lucas-style prequel. Curse you for introducing that, Lucas! CURSE YOU! lol
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As far as being canon, I'm pretty sure it is not, but should be. I know a lot of the old novels are ridiculous and contradictory. but the post-nemesis novels are all carefully interweaved, and I think are good for canonization.
Yeah, they're carefully interwaeaved. And full of ridiculous name-dropping and fan-w*nk, so, no, thanks :P
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Perhaps I should start writing again...
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The post Nemesis novels for DS9, and of course the Titan series itself, are pretty awesome... The Pre-Nemesis TNG novels (A Time to... series), and a couple that take place immediately after are pretty damned good too. That is up until a overly glorified fan-fic gone wrong titled Before Dishonor. The vast majority of that book falls into the same realm I placed Star Trek V and the Star Wars prequels into.
That being said, the first couple Titan books were written before the design of the ship was even formalized, which could be said to have made some of the book read like it was taking place on Generic Starship 1138.
I didn't like the design at first... it came off as a bastardized Akira with mutant nebula bits tossed on. However, the design has grown on me. Just like Voyager's did. It just took a bit of time.
Almost canon enough.
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Here's my philosophy. Who gives two craps what CBS Paramount think? They aren;t giveing us much in the way of new Trek, so canon is whatever you want it to be. If you like the Luna, put it in your game, imagine you are on it chasing Deanna Troi with fuzzy pink handcuffs, whatever.
If you hate it, make your own!
"Necessity is the mother of all inventions"