Bridge Commander Central
Recreational Forums => Trek Discussion => Ships & Tech Talk => Topic started by: admiral homer on August 25, 2007, 02:19:17 PM
-
I have opened this forum to see what people think of know the origin of the borg. Do you want to know or would you rather it was left alone?
-
I dunno...Sure it'd be nice, but that said if we did know, then the writers would struggle even more to come up with a story without making some big howler of an inconcistency or two thousand etc. ;)
-
Moved to Tech Talk.
-
Microsoft.
-
We know the Borg Collective has existed for at least 900 years by the time of Voyager (Dragon Teeth, season 6).
-
Hmm I think the borg work well with a lot of mystery surrounding them. If they were to reveal the origin of the Borg it may take away some of the threat value. We still don't know what they are fully capable of.
-
My thoughts exactly. Star trek lagacy made the mistake of trying to prove that the borg evolved from v'ger which is just stupid. Cuz as we all know the borg have exsisted for centuarys, Guinan in TNG said the borg were thousands or centuarys old and not a couple which the borg would of been when Picard first encoutered them. Plus the borg started out in the delta quadrant not the alpha quadrent. Wish people would understand some things before they try and prove somthing. Worst of all it was D C Fontana who wrote the story for Star Trek Legacy!
-
Man I played about 5 levels of that game and got the s**ts real bad with it. I'm glad i havent played anymore of it. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of all the crap they try and fabricate or get wrong or misuse for the sake of making money. Sure I know its a buisiness but they could EASILY make money without screwing everything up!
-
Exactly. I think the last decent star trek game was elite force 2 and even that wasnt as good as the origanal. I just wish they would leave old things alone and invent new and origanal content to stop them screwing things up!
I was like you i had played about 5 levels and got sick of it really fast. I dont mind so much the enterprise episode with the borg in it because it was a direct concequence of first contact. But i do have one bug about that show. Why did picard not know about them before q who?
-
I think we've had this debate before cant remember when......
At some point the Borg were human
"We used to be exactly like them. Flawed, weak, organic. But we evolved to include the synthetic. Now we use both to attain perfection."
-
Well thats the nature of temporal mechanics. :)
I think that comment is reffering to the qualities that humans posses not that they actually WERE humans.
-
She just ment organice life forms in general not humans. The borg queen wasnt human to start off with anyway. I just think it is important to know what star trek fans feel of knowing the borgs origin. I mean i wouldnt mind finding out but only if it is plosible and that is writen well
-
I dont wanna know just because I'm damn sure the answer they come up with is going to be f**king stupid.
-
A quick theory:
The Borg were humanoids. Then some scientist invented nano-probes, and some Facist organazation like the Nazis on Earth exploited these nanoprobes to attain their goal of a perfect society.
-
Maybe. But what ever it is i just dont wana know its better left a mystery. And it would be a stupid answer that they came up with. So i think it is better left alone. All i know is the borg had to be invented you dont just get creatures that have cyborgnetics throughout there body
-
Maybe. But what ever it is i just dont wana know its better left a mystery. And it would be a stupid answer that they came up with. So i think it is better left alone. All i know is the borg had to be invented you dont just get creatures that have cyborgnetics throughout there body
Something along the lines of BSG happened. But the organics lost. BIGTIME.
-
All of this has been suggested before. The only thing that I want to see them do with the Borg is make them even more mysterious.
-
All of this has been suggested before. The only thing that I want to see them do with the Borg is make them even more mysterious.
Perhaps we've exhausted them as the "super bad villans" race they once were.
I reckon we need a new race of "super bad villans" in trek..
-
Gene Roddenberry once said that V'Ger could have been a possible the origin of the Borg, but of course it was never in the show so not canon.
-
Vger is simply to recent an event to be anywhere near the point of origin. Vger may certainly have been somehow effected by the borg in some way but certianly not THEIR origin. Maybe Vger can be seen as a previous iteration of the borg?
-
Vger is simply to recent an event to be anywhere near the point of origin. Vger may certainly have been somehow effected by the borg in some way but certianly not THEIR origin. Maybe Vger can be seen as a previous iteration of the borg?
Well, it is implied that the voyager 6 probe got shot back in time after it's surmised encounter with a black hole, and was discovered by a race that tinkered and toyed with it until it gained sentience. Then it just...erm...(what do you lot call what v'ger did to the 3 k'tingas at the start of TMP???) did 'THAT' to the race in question, but found that they were useful, and turned this race into the original (and unseen imo) borg who were sent out with vger's original programming "learn all that is learnable". This later becomes corrupted/modified by means or persons unknown
to the assimilation thing.
But if I use your line of thinking that vger is simply too young to be the original borg, then I come to the conclusion that voyager 6 is simply too young to be vger, having been launched in the late 20th century, and vger having assimilated "countless worlds" (to use spock's words) in it's travels, and it would take thousands of years to travel the distance it must have traveled to assimilate so much.
Voyager 6 MUST have encountered some kind of temporal anomaly. That or Q was having a laugh and a giggle..
-
Hmm i think i'm gonna have to watch that again... I didn't remember spock saying that. But then if thats true then it may be possible that Vger did have some part in the origin of the Borg.
-
Hmm i think i'm gonna have to watch that again... I didn't remember spock saying that. But then if thats true then it may be possible that Vger did have some part in the origin of the Borg.
its when spock goes out in the space suit to probe vger directly. Or just after...i think...
-
Its during the fly over. Man i have been thinking that for a long time that it had somthing to do with the black hole that voyager 6 encountered. It would be interesting to think that v'ger started off the borg. I know i said it was a bad idea at the start of this thread but legacy never explained it well or gave it enough credit. And what if Ilia became the first Borg Queen as she had became intergrated into the ship and could control the beings she was adding to her collective as bettered herself and became so obsesed with it to the point that she wanted perfection beyond the point of her creator. If you look at v'ger in TMP the directors edition v'ger does look borg like with the greens and dark colours witch we have become used to over the years. I just dont know what to think. But could we of started the borg off from a primitive probe form the 1970's?
Oh and the term you are looking for mate is digitised. ( I think? lol)
-
The Probe was launched in 1999 in the Star Trek timeline.
-
Was it? I dont think it was mate. The botany bay was launched in 1996 in the star trek timeline so i think that this kind of probe would of been obsolete and plus in 1999 wouldn't the 3rd world war of been raging? or at least the eugenics war
-
They first Voyager probe was launched in 1977 with the others following soon after
The Eugenics war started in 1992.
Voyager 6 encounters the machine race in 2000
The Nomad Probe is launched in 2010
Zefram Cochrane is born in 2034
On April 5 2063 Zefram Cochrane breaks the light barrier.
In 2272 V'ger attacks earth.
-
Thank you. I thought that was right because the star trek timeline is the same up until 1992 and then it alters.
-
Yeah Roddenberry just wants everything to happen faster than reality:)
-
The Borg Collective was started by the Borg Collective when they send back in time a Borg sphere and assimilated a planet starting the Borg Collective.
-
What? That is just confusing and baffleing. Bit like the chicken and the egg lol but i dont think thats how they came into exsistance
-
Haha Senator I love it!
-
I think this one could last a while
-
To be perfectly honest I think it works great as a mystery. The borg are still very powerfull. If the borg get to the state where starfleet has a good fighting chance against them and they arn't really a threat anymore then i wouldn't be so worried if they decided to make up an origin for them but while they are still a galactic menace, the more mysterious, the better.
-
actually, if the Federation establishes dialogue with the Species 8472, there would be no more Borg in less than a warp flash lol
I find it funny that the borg didn't send a big fleet, say, 5 or 6 cubes to earth in FC.
kinda like they were....testing.... the federation.
whatever their origin is, if Legacy was to be considered canonnical, the only race I saw that cautious was the Vulcans.
it could be considered accurate to the Borg procedure to not waste uneeded resources, but in the end Picard won, so they did waste resources by not sending another ship.
....
OMFG, why is this rethoric always there!!!?!?!!?!!!????.....
I would post another point of view, more explained, and way more extensive, but I don't want to create another cannon-vs-noncannon debate lol
-
lol shame the queen dont have pointed ears. Does any one know which speices the queen is? Are the borg frightened of us cuz they always seem to send large fleets to assimulate worlds but with us its always one ship against 100 little ships blasting hell out of it!
-
lol shame the queen dont have pointed ears. Does any one know which speices the queen is? Are the borg frightened of us cuz they always seem to send large fleets to assimulate worlds but with us its always one ship against 100 little ships blasting hell out of it!
oh, ya.
so we find out they have human roots.
the human is the only animal who runs into the same stone twice.
and they did. in Wol359 and Sector 001. both a Federation victory.
a bit mothballed, but victory nonetheless.
-
Its almost like earth is like their true home and they need somthing from it not humans but somthing else
-
so we find out they have human roots.
When?
-
i think he was replying to my post when i said that the borh are frightened of us and that they have human roots because of this, I think!
One thing that is bothering me and has been for ages ever since i first saw first contact, Why did picard leave the wreakage of the borg sphere on 21st century earth?
-
The Japanese are the Borg.
-
Actually that would make spooky sense if Jap chicks weren't s'dam hawt.
-
Why are the borg japanese?
-
Why are the borg japanese?
hummm, because they..... grew up their population very fast? <.< >.>
wii are da bolg, lowell yol shiils an zulendell yol shiips
*woooooonnnnnnngg*
-
If anything, they are Sweedish.
-
hummm, because they..... grew up their population very fast? <.< >.>
wii are da bolg, lowell yol shiils an zulendell yol shiips
*woooooonnnnnnngg*
Please to be acknowledgink Borg were made in Mother Russia.
-
In Mother Russia, you assimilate the Borg.
-
Yes
-
:dance Cheeky git.
-
I'll be here all day :)
-
Now all please to be hailink evil genius from mother russia.
-
if you said that the borg were based off the Soviets, one could kinda agree.
they expanded and added their surrounding neighbors to their country ("...you will be assimilated...."), and in that time (1989/1990) the USSR was common theme in everyone's life
-
Bit off topic but that was the whole story behind ST:6. I wonder if the borg cube is nothing more than a 24th century larda?
-
The model of the original Borg Cube was made of trees (models, of course).
-
My arse created the borg
-
The model of the original Borg Cube was made of trees (models, of course).
LIES!!!!
it was made of paper clips and plastic panels
-
now i know why andrew k has a respect level of -14! Did they use a new model for FC?
-
Though it's not canon. This will give you something to chew on. . .
* Origin of the Borg:
-
that's the one from legacy?
didn't open it, just guessing.
I saw a video on youtube that was from Legacy
-
that's the one from legacy?
didn't open it, just guessing.
I saw a video on youtube that was from Legacy
Supposedly. I played legacy for all of 30 minuets, I bore easily ;) -BR32
-
lol good job you didnt finish it. I have and my god what a load of s**t. I just dont know what to think of the whole v'ger thing being the origin of the borg. Some days i think it is a good idea then other days i think it is a really bad idea. Jesus i just dont know!
-
lol good job you didnt finish it. I have and my god what a load of s**t. I just dont know what to think of the whole v'ger thing being the origin of the borg. Some days i think it is a good idea then other days i think it is a really bad idea. Jesus i just dont know!
lol, it will be alright ;) -BR32
-
Legacy was a very bad bad bad bad bad game. Naughty paramount!
-
Legacy was a very bad bad bad bad bad game. Naughty paramount!
paramount? They have nothing to do with trek anymore....
-
Legacy was a very bad bad bad bad bad game. Naughty paramount!
You forgot to add a couple of more "bad's" in there, lol. I played the game. I wasn't impressed.
The Borg seem so lame in it, as does everything else...
Thanks for reminding me to delete it from my hard drive ;) -BR32
-
Lol i should to. Legacy reminds me far to much of shattered universe that crap flight combat game that was ment to be the return of the mirror universe. Lol yeah right and both games are terrible. All i say is bring back activision. I miss the days of elite force and armada (the first one). Anyhoooooooo back on track. The borg deserve so much more than crap star trek story writers. They need some tlc and some creativity not total stupidity. I love the story for dark frontier in voyagers 5h season. But how did the queen come back and why did no one explain it? The only thing i can think of that is an explination is that she died in a past and a different time so that time would no longer exist. Which means that the queen would never of gone back in time and would still exist in the 24th century. Or could there be more than 1 queen?
-
The only thing i can think of that is an explination is that she died in a past and a different time so that time would no longer exist. Which means that the queen would never of gone back in time and would still exist in the 24th century. Or could there be more than 1 queen?
That would appear to be the case. Considering the Queen was killed in "First Contact". Since the Borg do use Cloning aside from Assimilation, to replenish the ranks? It would not be a reach for the Collective to copy "Perfection". Though Susanna Thompson did a good take on the Borg Queen in Voyager. Any excuse to see the excellent Alice Krige reprise her role as "the Queen" is always a welcome one:P -BR32
-
LOL well i've seen a total of like 3 episodes of voyager. I cant wait for them to release the new Voyager DVD sets. Yeah I have to admit that Alice Krige did an awesome job of the queen! So beautifully dark.
-
LOL well i've seen a total of like 3 episodes of voyager. I cant wait for them to release the new Voyager DVD sets. Yeah I have to admit that Alice Krige did an awesome job of the queen! So beautifully dark.
Dude, I have all of Star Trek: Voyager on DVD. Seasons 1-7. They have been out for quite sometime- In the States, anyway. Though your right about Alice Krige. . . She does "kick ass" as the Borg Queen :P -BR32
-
Not to mention she was pretty hot. I'd assimilate her ass-ymetrically....
-
Lol i should to. Legacy reminds me far to much of shattered universe that crap flight combat game that was ment to be the return of the mirror universe. Lol yeah right and both games are terrible. All i say is bring back activision. I miss the days of elite force and armada (the first one). Anyhoooooooo back on track. The borg deserve so much more than crap star trek story writers. They need some tlc and some creativity not total stupidity. I love the story for dark frontier in voyagers 5h season. But how did the queen come back and why did no one explain it? The only thing i can think of that is an explination is that she died in a past and a different time so that time would no longer exist. Which means that the queen would never of gone back in time and would still exist in the 24th century. Or could there be more than 1 queen?
I always find it interesting...
Dorothy and I have done a lot in the Trek universe, and really care
about the quality of the stories we tell. We're professional writers
who are paid for our work, and our expertise.
From my understanding I would have to say, I can't see many
other writers on these forums who have been published or sold material
for Star Trek.
Its easy to be a critic...especially when you're anonymous over the
internet. What's not so easy, is putting yourself out there, and working
within the system that is entertainment. You can have the best script
in the world, but if its directed and implemented poorly, or things
are cut from the story, thats not always under the writers control.
As far as your critique of Legacy is concernced, its perfectly okay to
have your opinion. However, as has been stated, much of the story was
cut and the cinematics never became reality. You got only a sliver of
the story Dorothy and I wrote that was authorized by Paramount and
researched with the aid of Mike Okuda...as well as from the great
experience that Dorothy and I have with the franchise.
What we wrote fits within the realm of all Canon material, and we were
encouraged to explore the "Origin of the Borg" by Paramount as well as
their connection to V'Ger as Gene himself had postulated.
What I can't understand is this. If you are so opinionated, why don't you try and write for Star Trek. Be part of the solution and not just some anonymous griefer. This is what Dorothy and I do professionally. Not as a hobby or part time flirtation, nor wishful thinking that we never actually follow through on.
We write for Star Trek, and we make positive contributions to the mythos. So before you cast negative blanket remarks about professionals, perhaps you'll have a little more respect.
Between David Gerrold, Orson Scott Card, Joe Straczynski,
Harlan Ellison, Gene Roddenberry, Diane Duane, Peter David and countless others...
Dorothy and I have worked with the best. What have YOU done today?
-
What have I done today? I've searched desperately for a new TV episode, or movie, or game from the "excellent" paid contributers from Paramount, and came up empty handed. Sadly, it's not such a great loss, as it was incredibly talented people such as yourself that have left Trek as the almost lifeless train wreck that it has become.
Thank you?
Nevertheless, what my search has reassured me, is that there are fan-based ( probably unpaid, unappreciated, and unincorporated ) projects that just may breathe new life into the Trek universe. Don't take this personally, as I do appreciate all contributions, ( professional or otherwise ) but I have much more faith in the skills and talents of the vast fan-base than I have in all of Paramount's paid professional lackeys.
-
What have I done today? I've searched desperately for a new TV episode, or movie, or game from the "excellent" paid contributers from Paramount, and came up empty handed. Sadly, it's not such a great loss, as it was incredibly talented people such as yourself that have left Trek as the almost lifeless train wreck that it has become.
Thank you?
I think that blame sits squarely in the lap of Berman and Braga. If anything the creative staff behind Star Trek were the reason it managed to keep going as long as it did (look how much better enterprise season 4 was when Braga finally stopped interfering).
So I definately think you are barking up the wrong tree there weasel, there isnt much a writer can do if the producers decide to edit half the story out..
-
I'd agree with much of that- I'd lay the blame on the scavengers in the boardroom, who may or may not make decisions based on dollars and cents, as opposed to maintaining artistic integrity.
-
Legacy was a very bad bad bad bad bad game. Naughty paramount!
You forgot to add a couple of more "bad's" in there, lol. I played the game. I wasn't impressed.
The Borg seem so lame in it, as does everything else...
Thanks for reminding me to delete it from my hard drive ;) -BR32
BR - Have you played any mods? I would try one called 'The Ultimate Universe'. That's mine - put together by a good team. The stock game these guys refer to did suck. I agree. We looked way beyond that...
http://www.chrisjonesgaming.net - by the way - how are you?
-
Homer - you really should think before you write things like 'crap story writers'. I can appreciate you didn't like the story as it was told in Legacy - but you need not insult the writers like that. As Derek said above, the story was seriously cut up upon release.
BC Stock, back in the day when it was released, was mighty fine. The story was in depth and solid. Derek and Dorothy laid the foundation for what the BC modding community has achieved to this day. Without that awesome story - BC might not have sold as well or been as popular. I feel you should show more respect and offer an apology to Writeall for that comment.
You may decide to dismiss me as just a Legacy player but consider this. Open up KM and see who's maps from 2003-2004 are in there. I might still be around but Python did my head in after a while - I ventured into a big OP mod - and Legacy was just so bad out of the box that I wanted to fix it and make it real Star Trek. My team has done that. I may be on the wrong forum for talking about Legacy, but I do consider myself a BC alumni of sorts, and when I saw that comment I had to chime in.
No disrespect to anyone on this board.
-
Legacy was a very bad bad bad bad bad game. Naughty paramount!
You forgot to add a couple of more "bad's" in there, lol. I played the game. I wasn't impressed.
The Borg seem so lame in it, as does everything else...
Thanks for reminding me to delete it from my hard drive ;) -BR32
BR - Have you played any mods? I would try one called 'The Ultimate Universe'. That's mine - put together by a good team. The stock game these guys refer to did suck. I agree. We looked way beyond that...
http://www.chrisjonesgaming.net - by the way - how are you?
Hi there, Chris- I'm fine ;)
For the record- No, I haven't played modded Star Trek: Legacy. I've seen YouTube demos of the modded game. Dealing with the stock version of the game was traumatic enough. To be honest my duties with BCFiles, along with Modding and beta testing commitments? Leaves me little time to explore the ideal further. I've seen your modification for Legacy. The mod looks very nice, I might give it a go at some point. I don't belive anyone here is slamming any efforts in Modded Star Trek: Legacy. It's just a game, I personally did not care for in it's "original" state.
But right now, I'm involved with projects for Bridge Commander that will, quite frankly blow modded Trek gaming out of the water! And you know I'm not one for "exaggeration". Five years of modding BC, and it's been a pleasure watching the community grow. And continually pushing the boundaries of this ageing game. She has much potential.
**Back On Topic** To quote the Borg Queen- "I am the Beginning and the Endi. I am one voice, that are many. . ."
Even Voyager's 7 of 9 said the Collective's memory of "Origin" was fragmentary at best. So, anything is possible. -BR32
-
Lol i should to. Legacy reminds me far to much of shattered universe that crap flight combat game that was ment to be the return of the mirror universe. Lol yeah right and both games are terrible. All i say is bring back activision. I miss the days of elite force and armada (the first one). Anyhoooooooo back on track. The borg deserve so much more than crap star trek story writers. They need some tlc and some creativity not total stupidity. I love the story for dark frontier in voyagers 5h season. But how did the queen come back and why did no one explain it? The only thing i can think of that is an explination is that she died in a past and a different time so that time would no longer exist. Which means that the queen would never of gone back in time and would still exist in the 24th century. Or could there be more than 1 queen?
I always find it interesting...
Dorothy and I have done a lot in the Trek universe, and really care
about the quality of the stories we tell. We're professional writers
who are paid for our work, and our expertise.
From my understanding I would have to say, I can't see many
other writers on these forums who have been published or sold material
for Star Trek.
Its easy to be a critic...especially when you're anonymous over the
internet. What's not so easy, is putting yourself out there, and working
within the system that is entertainment. You can have the best script
in the world, but if its directed and implemented poorly, or things
are cut from the story, thats not always under the writers control.
As far as your critique of Legacy is concernced, its perfectly okay to
have your opinion. However, as has been stated, much of the story was
cut and the cinematics never became reality. You got only a sliver of
the story Dorothy and I wrote that was authorized by Paramount and
researched with the aid of Mike Okuda...as well as from the great
experience that Dorothy and I have with the franchise.
What we wrote fits within the realm of all Canon material, and we were
encouraged to explore the "Origin of the Borg" by Paramount as well as
their connection to V'Ger as Gene himself had postulated.
What I can't understand is this. If you are so opinionated, why don't you try and write for Star Trek. Be part of the solution and not just some anonymous griefer. This is what Dorothy and I do professionally. Not as a hobby or part time flirtation, nor wishful thinking that we never actually follow through on.
We write for Star Trek, and we make positive contributions to the mythos. So before you cast negative blanket remarks about professionals, perhaps you'll have a little more respect.
Between David Gerrold, Orson Scott Card, Joe Straczynski,
Harlan Ellison, Gene Roddenberry, Diane Duane, Peter David and countless others...
Dorothy and I have worked with the best. What have YOU done today?
Derek, I think the criticism was aimed at the product we (the buyers of Legacy) were actually given, not what you and Dorothy had planned (love to get my hands on that, btw ;) ).
So, you may understand that most of us are pretty iffy about the subject of Legacy, which was, in it released version at least, utter crap.
-
Lol i should to. Legacy reminds me far to much of shattered universe that crap flight combat game that was ment to be the return of the mirror universe. Lol yeah right and both games are terrible. All i say is bring back activision. I miss the days of elite force and armada (the first one). Anyhoooooooo back on track. The borg deserve so much more than crap star trek story writers. They need some tlc and some creativity not total stupidity. I love the story for dark frontier in voyagers 5h season. But how did the queen come back and why did no one explain it? The only thing i can think of that is an explination is that she died in a past and a different time so that time would no longer exist. Which means that the queen would never of gone back in time and would still exist in the 24th century. Or could there be more than 1 queen?
I always find it interesting...
Dorothy and I have done a lot in the Trek universe, and really care
about the quality of the stories we tell. We're professional writers
who are paid for our work, and our expertise.
From my understanding I would have to say, I can't see many
other writers on these forums who have been published or sold material
for Star Trek.
Then me thinks you don't understand well enough. I for one write star trek fan fiction. And to be honest have no real wish to become embroiled the 'business' of publishing. Although the head of our writing team may well try.
Its easy to be a critic...especially when you're anonymous over the
internet. What's not so easy, is putting yourself out there, and working
within the system that is entertainment. You can have the best script
in the world, but if its directed and implemented poorly, or things
are cut from the story, thats not always under the writers control.
Too true, and I'm sure most of the people here would recognise that.
As far as your critique of Legacy is concernced, its perfectly okay to
have your opinion. However, as has been stated, much of the story was
cut and the cinematics never became reality. You got only a sliver of
the story Dorothy and I wrote that was authorized by Paramount and
researched with the aid of Mike Okuda...as well as from the great
experience that Dorothy and I have with the franchise.
My main beef with the game was not its story (as I mentioned i havn't played enough to get ANY of the story, although as i have also mentioned I don't think taking the mystery out of the borg was in any way a good idea), It was the absolutely SHODDY gameplay. I mean the game was supposed to be celebrating 40 YEARS of Star Trek and they couldn't even do better than a game that came out more than 5 years ago. That to me is shocking and dispicable.
What we wrote fits within the realm of all Canon material, and we were
encouraged to explore the "Origin of the Borg" by Paramount as well as
their connection to V'Ger as Gene himself had postulated.
What I can't understand is this. If you are so opinionated, why don't you try and write for Star Trek. Be part of the solution and not just some anonymous griefer. This is what Dorothy and I do professionally. Not as a hobby or part time flirtation, nor wishful thinking that we never actually follow through on.
We write for Star Trek, and we make positive contributions to the mythos. So before you cast negative blanket remarks about professionals, perhaps you'll have a little more respect.
Between David Gerrold, Orson Scott Card, Joe Straczynski,
Harlan Ellison, Gene Roddenberry, Diane Duane, Peter David and countless others...
Dorothy and I have worked with the best. What have YOU done today?
.
With all due respect, we've seen the 'professional' writing work come out lately and even by the industries OWN standard things are not getting better. I can understand as you mentioned before that a lot of good story writing is destroyed because of cuts made by the director and others (which I blame partly on the masses inability to sit still and watch anything for more than ten minutes without seeing something get blown up). Now, bearing that in mind, what is the insentive for the writers among us to put forth our stories or work along side other writers in an industry where your story will be totally destroyed on the big screen for all to see?
To be honest I even take issue with your argument that we 'shouldn't complain when we don't do anything to help'. Critique is not something that is reserved for only those that work in your particular field. A valid point is a valid point. It doesn't matter if I can or can't write star trek, if I my (or anybody elses) critque is valid then it should be veiwed as such and not disregarded simply because you don't like the implication.
-
I always find it interesting...
Dorothy and I have done a lot in the Trek universe, and really care
about the quality of the stories we tell. We're professional writers
who are paid for our work, and our expertise.
From my understanding I would have to say, I can't see many
other writers on these forums who have been published or sold material
for Star Trek.
Its easy to be a critic...especially when you're anonymous over the
internet. What's not so easy, is putting yourself out there, and working
within the system that is entertainment.
We write for Star Trek, and we make positive contributions to the mythos. So before you cast negative blanket remarks about professionals, perhaps you'll have a little more respect.
Between David Gerrold, Orson Scott Card, Joe Straczynski,
Harlan Ellison, Gene Roddenberry, Diane Duane, Peter David and countless others...
Dorothy and I have worked with the best. What have YOU done today?
I don't know about anyone else? I wasn't going to say anything at first. But, I beg to differ. Your right. I know I've been modding for Bridge Commander for five years. I haven't received a "dime" for the modifications I've done for free. And given them "freely" to the general public. That "OUR" devotion to trek and the franchise? So yea, We have "put ourselves out there". Even if it is a hobby, Without making profit. Can you say the same?
Efforts like ours is what keeps the franchise alive. Despite the best efforts of "Bermaga". I found your post just a tad condescending. You come into our community hurling insults? Because, were not "paid professionals"? Got news for ya buddy. Were definitely "NOT" getting a pay check. But the quality of mods this community now enjoys? Surpasses the original game. Which I believe they actually got paid for?
And to be honest. I've seen better offerings from Star Trek Fan made vids, than from anything a "professional" got paid for.
Perhaps you should show a little bit more respect, When coming into someone else's house.
-BR32
-
BR - I think Derek can say the same - he has done a lot for my team in particular - and other background activity that I can verify. He is in part the reason that your house - and my house - exist. The
crap story writer comment earlier was what irritated him - perhaps the same as if someone called your work 'crap'.
-
To be honest I even take issue with your argument that we 'shouldn't complain when we don't do anything to help'. Critique is not something that is reserved for only those that work in your particular field. A valid point is a valid point. It doesn't matter if I can or can't write star trek, if I my (or anybody elses) critque is valid then it should be veiwed as such and not disregarded simply because you don't like the implication.
Agreed. I do respect D C Fontana but the story for legacy just didnt do it for me and the game play was terible, i was expecting it to be more like armada.
BR - I think Derek can say the same - he was done a lot for my team in particular - and other background activity that I can verify. He is in part the reason that your house - and my house - exist. The
crap story writer comment earlier was what irritated him - perhaps the same as if someone called your work 'crap'.
I understand this but i stand by what i said and iam not the only one that thinks that. But we all know that in TNG the borg have existed for thousands of centurys not for just a century. So why change somthing that is already cannon and mess about with it so it pisses so many fans off?
-
I can understand that they wanted to make a story, which could "possibly" explain the origin of the Borg. The only problem is: They're story is both non-canon and full of holes.
In Voyager, we know that the Borg has existed for at least 900 years (Episode "Dragon Teeth"). There is no chance in hell, that you can make it plausible that the Borg was created by V'Ger which was launched during the 1960s, and merged with a human in the 2270s.
-
BR - I think Derek can say the same - he has done a lot for my team in particular - and other background activity that I can verify. He is in part the reason that your house - and my house - exist. The
crap story writer comment earlier was what irritated him - perhaps the same as if someone called your work 'crap'.
That's been done. My point is his post was unnecessary "rude". And that comment of his was "NOT" just limited to the poster? It was a slam on the entire modding community. So yeah, I took offence. Which is why I stand by my statement. His contribution are no greater less than anyone else's. It's that type of 'elitist' crap I can't stomach. Perhaps were all idiots for sharing our work freely to the public?
-
BR - I think Derek can say the same - he has done a lot for my team in particular - and other background activity that I can verify. He is in part the reason that your house - and my house - exist. The
crap story writer comment earlier was what irritated him - perhaps the same as if someone called your work 'crap'.
That's been done. My point is his post was unnecessary "rude". And that comment of his was "NOT" just limited to the poster? It was a slam on the entire modding community. So yeah, I took offence. Which is why I stand by my statement. His contribution are no greater less than anyone else's. It's that type of 'elitist' crap I can't stomach. Perhaps were all idiots for sharing our work freely to the public?
Agreed. Just because Derek Chester and DC Fontana have paid jobs to write the stories for a game, doesn't make our non-profit work any less valid or any less worth then theirs.
-
I am sorry to cause offence at what i said, iam not getting at BC modders, these guys rock and are true trek fans like myself, it is star trek legacy i have the problem with and its story. As Darkthunder said it is full of holes and un-cannon. But as that is a different game and i have no gripe with the BC community then i think it is time we dropped this topic!
-
I can understand that they wanted to make a story, which could "possibly" explain the origin of the Borg. The only problem is: They're story is both non-canon and full of holes.
In Voyager, we know that the Borg has existed for at least 900 years (Episode "Dragon Teeth"). There is no chance in hell, that you can make it plausible that the Borg was created by V'Ger which was launched during the 1960s, and merged with a human in the 2270s.
Yeah but they explain that with a time warping black hole.
-
Yeah but that means they are at least 900 years old. So they could be older. And another thing people are forgetting, the borg come form the delta quadrant not the alpha so it cant of been v'ger as v'ger came from another galaxy
-
I know some of you guys dislike Star Trek: Legacy, but I need to address something.
Admiral Homer, you referred to Legacy's writers as "crap writers." I am guessing you have no clue who wrote Legacy.
Derek Chester was a co-writer for Legacy. Since the majority of you guys worship BC, I am surprised you don't know that Derek wrote the entire Star Trek: Bridge Commander storyline.
The other writer for legacy is Dorothy Fontana. She was writing for Star Trek in a time when women were looked down on in such lines of work. Therefore, many of you would know her as D.C. Fontana. She wrote Star Trek episodes such as "The Trouble with Tribbles" and "Journey to Babel." This woman was writing for Star Trek years before many of you were even born.
I understand the problems with Legacy. Mad Doc software not only screwed over fans, they screwed Bethseda as well (which is why their rights to the Star Trek license have been revoked.) But due to insiders at Bethseda and a few disgruntled Mad Doc employees, the Legacy modding community have been given various tools to redesign the game. In fact, Chris Jones, a legend in the BC community has been working hard to revive the game, and so far it's going very well.
The point is, I am sick of all this polarized bullcrap in the Star Trek gaming community. Legacy had a very good storyline aside from it's glaring engine bugs. With support, it will be the next Bridge Commander in terms of modding. So stop ragging on it because it wasn't Bridge Commander 2.
Back on topic: I was always a fan of the Borg from V'Ger theory. In fact, Gene himself believed it. Regardless of what you believe, it doesn't really matter. It's fiction, and not a very consistent one at that. I liked Star Trek because I could enjoy it with people who would not sit around debating "canon" but it seems that is no longer the case.
In order for V'Ger to travel across the galaxy (according to TMP, it traversed the entire galaxy anyways), it would have required a wormhole or black hole. Both of which are notorious in Star Trek for altering time and space. It's entirely possible that the probe was sent back a thousand years.
EDIT after reading: Blackrook, how dare you call Derek rude. You call him and Dorothy "crap writers" and then call him rude? It's like the pot calling the kettle black. Honestly.
-
I know some of you guys dislike Star Trek: Legacy, but I need to address something.
Admiral Homer, you referred to Legacy's writers as "crap writers." I am guessing you have no clue who wrote Legacy.
Derek Chester was a co-writer for Legacy. Since the majority of you guys worship BC, I am surprised you don't know that Derek wrote the entire Star Trek: Bridge Commander storyline.
The other writer for legacy is Dorothy Fontana. She was writing for Star Trek in a time when women were looked down on in such lines of work. Therefore, many of you would know her as D.C. Fontana. She wrote Star Trek episodes such as "The Trouble with Tribbles" and "Journey to Babel." This woman was writing for Star Trek years before many of you were even born.
I understand the problems with Legacy. Mad Doc software not only screwed over fans, they screwed Bethseda as well (which is why their rights to the Star Trek license have been revoked.) But due to insiders at Bethseda and a few disgruntled Mad Doc employees, the Legacy modding community have been given various tools to redesign the game. In fact, Chris Jones, a legend in the BC community has been working hard to revive the game, and so far it's going very well.
The point is, I am sick of all this polarized bullcrap in the Star Trek gaming community. Legacy had a very good storyline aside from it's glaring engine bugs. With support, it will be the next Bridge Commander in terms of modding. So stop ragging on it because it wasn't Bridge Commander 2.
Back on topic: I was always a fan of the Borg from V'Ger theory. In fact, Gene himself believed it. Regardless of what you believe, it doesn't really matter. It's fiction, and not a very consistent one at that. I liked Star Trek because I could enjoy it with people who would not sit around debating "canon" but it seems that is no longer the case.
In order for V'Ger to travel across the galaxy (according to TMP, it traversed the entire galaxy anyways), it would have required a wormhole or black hole. Both of which are notorious in Star Trek for altering time and space. It's entirely possible that the probe was sent back a thousand years.
EDIT after reading: Blackrook, how dare you call Derek rude. You call him and Dorothy "crap writers" and then call him rude? It's like the pot calling the kettle black. Honestly.
Honestly, Try reading before you post? I said no such thing.
-
Look i do know who wrote legacy and if you remember a few posts back i said DROP IT! This whole v'ger being the origin of the borg thing is silly and there is no need to argue about it, and we all know some peoples views on legacy, and i do respect DC Fontana and even Derek i just wasnt a fan of the story for legacy. For me it was full of holes and lacked depth the way BC did
-
Well to be honest I see ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why Legacy shouldn't have been BC2. BC has dynamite gameplay and dynamics with great moddability and versatility. With upgraded graphics, more realistic physics, the authentic voice acting, upgraded interface, and more ships it could have easily been a BC2. The story wouldn't have been affected by the gameplay. If fact if anything it would have been helped with a more BC style. I think the game was just an absolute SHAMBLES. The games developers should be ashamed of themselves.
-
ok, this thread has drifted far too offtopic and is getting too heated...
the point of this thread was about the Origin of the Borg - so if that topic cannot be discussed, the thread will be locked...
so please go back to the original topic...
thx :)
-
Still want to know legitimate reasons you guys think the Borg from V'Ger theory is bullcrap, without resorting to "pmg Legacy sucks."
I find it so odd that you guys think that way when Gene himself proposed the idea when the Borg were first being formulated for Star Trek: The Next Generation.
-
Still want to know legitimate reasons you guys think the Borg from V'Ger theory is bullcrap, without resorting to "pmg Legacy sucks."
I find it so odd that you guys think that way when Gene himself proposed the idea when the Borg were first being formulated for Star Trek: The Next Generation.
I can only give you my POV on that issue but I figure it's as good as any.
The Borg from V'ger theory is bullcrap for several reasons, let me just elaborate first on the out-of-universe reasons:
Resorting to timetravel, some wormhole, technobabble, spatial anomaly, thingmajig-of-the-week is an extremely weak way of resolving perceived problems in a deus-ex-machina-stlye that is as thought-provoking as afore mentioned bullcrap.
to put it short: It's cheap to be willing to tie each and everything together story-wise just for the sake of doing it.
Heck, do something original for once, kthxbi?
Secondly, as an in-universe-reason:
If the Borg really stemmed from V'ger why did their respective directives differ so much from another? Why did V'ger 'scan' everything in if it needed the Borg to collect information?
If it could scan in everything (which we saw it could) why create the borg in the first place? How does this mesh with the things the BQ said in FC? (Being organic at first, not mentioning the deity, V'ger?)
These are just a few of many many continuity problems that would arise with the Borg stemming from V'ger.
Another thing with that stupid Legacy storyline is: When the Feds had contact of some sorts with the Borg for so long why didnt anyone bother to make a friggin notice somehwere?
-
I will answer your last question first, since it is really more of an Enterprise era discussion. The Borg never properly introduced themselves, and none of their ship configurations were identified. They removed all of their salvageable technology from the Arctic crash site and it was destroyed along with their ship.
First question: Because it works. Trek nitpickers were an extremely rare breed until the advent of the internet. Gene and the other producers never really thought people would tear things up like this.
In-Universe questions:
1. It is implied in TMP, Voyager and Legacy (you say it, I will) that V'Ger set off on it's mission of exploration several hundred years ago. The queens would have been left to sift through the information and continue V'Ger's directives. Over time, those directives would be skewered by the passing of time, and the fact that the Queen's seem to have a unique form of individuality. Even the Borg can be tempted by power.
2. V'Ger did not create the Borg in the sense of physical creation. The Borg were there before they found V'Ger. They repaired it, and analyzed it's programming. "To seek all that is seekable, to know all that is knowable." They had found their God. They repaired V'Ger and equipped it to complete it's mission. Then, like worshippers of a faith, the Borg inherited V'Ger's directives and began their own mission of exploration.
When I say "Borg from V'Ger" I mean that the Borg were not created by V'Ger, but inherited their drive for assimilation from it. Hence, V'Ger created the Borg that we know and love today.
-
I will answer your last question first, since it is really more of an Enterprise era discussion. The Borg never properly introduced themselves, and none of their ship configurations were identified. They removed all of their salvageable technology from the Arctic crash site and it was destroyed along with their ship.
Very convenient, isn't it? so we can milk the borg-phenomena in each and every era before TNG ;-)
First question: Because it works. Trek nitpickers were an extremely rare breed until the advent of the internet. Gene and the other producers never really thought people would tear things up like this.
Well this does not answer the question as to why it had to be brought up today (in the day and age of the internet).
Plus, let me remind you that Gr is dead for quite some time now, before we got Ds9, VGR and ENT, so it makes no sense to dig up old ideas that have already been contradicted by established canon.
Plus, GR did intend the borg to be the insectiod parasites that we saw in 'Conspiracy' but that idea had to be dropped because of insufficient special effects at that time.
In-Universe questions:
1. It is implied in TMP, Voyager and Legacy (you say it, I will) that V'Ger set off on it's mission of exploration several hundred years ago. The queens would have been left to sift through the information and continue V'Ger's directives. Over time, those directives would be skewered by the passing of time, and the fact that the Queen's seem to have a unique form of individuality. Even the Borg can be tempted by power.
2. V'Ger did not create the Borg in the sense of physical creation. The Borg were there before they found V'Ger. They repaired it, and analyzed it's programming. "To seek all that is seekable, to know all that is knowable." They had found their God. They repaired V'Ger and equipped it to complete it's mission. Then, like worshippers of a faith, the Borg inherited V'Ger's directives and began their own mission of exploration.
Nope, it is implied that V'ger was sucked through space and time into another galaxy to a planet of sentient machines (machines is the key here) who repaired it and sent it back on it's way. As stated before: the borg started off as organics just like you and I (ST:FC). In voyager, and TNG the only thing that was implied is, tat the borg had been around for some milennia now.
When I say "Borg from V'Ger" I mean that the Borg were not created by V'Ger, but inherited their drive for assimilation from it. Hence, V'Ger created the Borg that we know and love loathe today.
fixed. :arms:
-
At point #1: Berman and Braga will do anything for money. Regeneration was a good episode, nonetheless. And I liked how it wraps up First Contact.
Point #2: It's brought up today because the internet is a horrible, horrible place! While 15 years ago, such discussions about anything from movies to books would take place at conventions. Now, we can have them any time we want.
I hate the word Canon. First off, it makes me think of artillery. Secondly, Star Trek has hundreds of continuity errors. Canon really only serves like a guideline to me. Like the Ent-D firing phasers out of her torpedo tube :P.
Gene really didn't like the Borg in the first place. I had a chance to talk to Mike Okuda at a convention a few years ago (the only one I have been able to go to) and he said Gene really didn't like the way the Borg came out. It was only after Q Who did he make the reference to the Borg possibly being related to V'Ger.
Regardless, the similarities between the Borg's mission and V'Ger's are too great for coincidence.
Point #3: When did they say another galaxy? And yes, I agree that the Borg were an organic race before they adapted the synthetic. We do know, however, that V'Ger was sucked back a long time in order to accomplish it's task. That the Borg at least came in contact with V'Ger we don't know.
@fix: That depends on your point of view :P
-
Canon really only serves like a guideline to me. Like the Ent-D firing phasers out of her torpedo tube :P.
huh? o.0?
-
Canon really only serves like a guideline to me. Like the Ent-D firing phasers out of her torpedo tube :P.
huh? o.0?
I forget the episode (I think it might have been "Pen Pals" but the Big D fires phaser blasts out of the torpedo tube in the neck. It was a miscommunication between the SFX team and the Okudas.
-
ya it did happen... dont recall the ep either, but you are right...
-
Darmok, and <whoever> at Tanagra (sp).
is teh episode name ur minds escape from.
-
thats the one! Darmok and Jilad at Tinagra...
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=101&pos=272
lol ok good, that was driving me crazy trying to remember which one...
so ya, the origin of the borg?
-
Well, the Borg Queen says flat out in FC that the Borg were once like humans, flawed and organic, but that they learned to incorporate the synthetic. So I'd say that pretty much declares the whole Vger thing useless as a third nipple.
-
Well, the Borg Queen says flat out in FC that the Borg were once like humans, flawed and organic, but that they learned to incorporate the synthetic. So I'd say that pretty much declares the whole Vger thing useless as a third nipple.
You obviously missed the point. Borg from V'Ger does not mean that V'Ger created the Borg, it just made them what they are now.
-
Well, the Borg Queen says flat out in FC that the Borg were once like humans, flawed and organic, but that they learned to incorporate the synthetic. So I'd say that pretty much declares the whole Vger thing useless as a third nipple.
You obviously missed the point. Borg from V'Ger does not mean that V'Ger created the Borg, it just made them what they are now.
See what a mess this whole Legacy storyline is?
Plus, as explicitly stated in Legacy, the Borg were created by V'Ger, not merely changed. You did play it yourself, didn't you?
/edit: Plus, I still consider it to be extremely weak not to come up with some original way of the borg being created and instead of falling back to the giant (pun intended) plot-device V'Ger is.
Also I vow for no mre borg as the primary vilains in upcoming Trek-Games, they're so overdone now.
-
I watched Legacy's videos, in fact I just rewatched them now.
V'Ger was repaired by the Borg, in that video. The Borg were established as having existed. All V'Ger did was give them a drive and motivation that fascinated them. Hence, V'Ger "created" the Borg.
Oh, and since you brought it up. Dorothy and Derek wanted to bring a plot that encompassed all 5 generations. They wanted to take the Borg (TNG/DS9/VOY) and mix it with a renegade Vulcan (ENT) and then include V'Ger (TOS).
If Mad Doc had allowed them to include the full story, it would have made much more sense than the silly plotholes. I remember at one point Derek posted the entire storyline uncut on the Bethsoft forums, but I can't seem to find it. Regardless, he is working with modding teams to restore the complete storyline.
-
Actually, V'Ger is TMP (not TOS), but who's counting right? :P
And as for the Borg, again it could not have been V'Ger that created the Borg, because the Borg already existed since 600 years before V'Ger was launched. Now it's been stated in canon that V'Ger entered into what was once known as a "Blackhole" and ended up in the far side of the galaxy. Obviously Spock got enough information through his mindmeld with V'Ger to know this. Why wouldn't he have also found out that it was thrown back in time as well?
Barihawk, the simple fact is: The Legacy storyline is full of holes and non-consistency with established canon.
-
I think the Borg started off much like ourselves. then they began adding technology to replace damage organs etc. then someome started adding it just to improve their bodies. then they devloped a way to link up to a computer to assimilate information and then that developed so they could transfer information to one another. soon they all began thinking as one and then decided to start assimilating other races and technologies. but all this took place over a number of centuries.
-
Actually, V'Ger is TMP (not TOS), but who's counting right? :P
And as for the Borg, again it could not have been V'Ger that created the Borg, because the Borg already existed since 600 years before V'Ger was launched. Now it's been stated in canon that V'Ger entered into what was once known as a "Blackhole" and ended up in the far side of the galaxy. Obviously Spock got enough information through his mindmeld with V'Ger to know this. Why wouldn't he have also found out that it was thrown back in time as well?
Barihawk, the simple fact is: The Legacy storyline is full of holes and non-consistency with established canon.
The theory was around for 15 years before Legacy came out.
And the time travel is speculation, since we are after all, speculating here. And don't dare use canon and consistency in the same sentence, or I will pull out more inconsistencies like the phaser one. Star Trek has been being written for 41 years now, with multitudes of different writers, producers, and so forth. There are inconsistencies abound, and all over the place.
-
ok this "debate" is starting to get heated again... guys please tone it down a bit...
-
They first Voyager probe was launched in 1977 with the others following soon after
The Eugenics war started in 1992.
Voyager 6 encounters the machine race in 2000
The Nomad Probe is launched in 2010
Zefram Cochrane is born in 2034
On April 5 2063 Zefram Cochrane breaks the light barrier.
In 2272 V'ger attacks earth.
Did Zefram Cochrane look 29 in first contact???
-
NECROED!
Good point, but look at the posting date matey ;)
-
They first Voyager probe was launched in 1977 with the others following soon after
The Eugenics war started in 1992.
Voyager 6 encounters the machine race in 2000
The Nomad Probe is launched in 2010
Zefram Cochrane is born in 2034
On April 5 2063 Zefram Cochrane breaks the light barrier.
In 2272 V'ger attacks earth.
Did Zefram Cochrane look 29 in first contact???
did he look 200-something in the TOS episode?
anyhoo, this demands a RETCON!
-
NECROED!
Good point, but look at the posting date matey ;)
Oh i know lol but I just had to point that out :D :D :D
-
Want to talk illogical/inconsistent? Sure, let's go way back to the motion picture. Says Voyager 6 encountered the machine people in the year 2000, less then 30 years after it was launched, correct? It would take it more then that just to leave the solar system. Don't know about you guys, but I haven't noticed any wormholes/quantum singularities in the system during my last warp 1 cruise.. :)
Point is, there are no such anomalies in the proximity required for voyager 6 reaching them in said time, in real life or in the Star Trek plot. Besides, when you get right down to it, space is a pretty empty place. The existing groups of matter make up for a very small percentage of total space. The chances of a probe on a random course actually hitting such an anomaly are astronomically (pun intended) small. The chances of a probe moving at sublight velocities encountering anything of the sort in the given time frame are pretty much non-existent.
Think they should've invented a bit better plot concerning the creation of v'ger...
-
I think the Borg started off much like ourselves. then they began adding technology to replace damage organs etc. then someome started adding it just to improve their bodies. then they devloped a way to link up to a computer to assimilate information and then that developed so they could transfer information to one another. soon they all began thinking as one and then decided to start assimilating other races and technologies. but all this took place over a number of centuries.
That Version of events is far more likely.... And consistent with star trek since. Remember the whole universe does not revolve around earth
They first Voyager probe was launched in 1977 with the others following soon after
The Eugenics war started in 1992.
Voyager 6 encounters the machine race in 2000
The Nomad Probe is launched in 2010
Zefram Cochrane is born in 2034
On April 5 2063 Zefram Cochrane breaks the light barrier.
In 2272 V'ger attacks earth.
Did Zefram Cochrane look 29 in first contact???
did he look 200-something in the TOS episode?
anyhoo, this demands a RETCON!
I'm working on a proposed "New History" of Star Trek which rectifies certain inaccuracies and adapts the Previous time lines to accommodate events that have never happened yet, For example the Voyager 6 probe has been "Retconed" and re dubbed as the Voyager 1 Probe (already outside of earths solar system.)
If you like i could post my retcon but i doubt many people will accept it since it violates that all important Cannon Protection
-
I don't see much point. Yes, the Voyager 1 is out of the solar system, but it would still take it thousands of years to reach anything of interest. And even by then, it will still have traveled a very small distance from us, on a galactic scale.
In addition, that probe is extremely primitive tech, it's hard to imagine it gaining sentience, with the help of a machine race or not. To an advance, sentient machine, voyager 1 would be the equivalent of an amoeba. Hard to imagine any advanced race wasting time with that heap of scrap metal and primitive electronics.
The whole plot is just - old. Things like that could fly in the past, and since trek is more then 40 years old, there's plenty of such unconvincing stuff. If you want a rewrite to make it all believable, you'd have to re-write more then half of all trek. And by then, of course, it wouldn't be trek anymore.
-
O.K...... you all do know that the main purpouse for Star Trek is to make money (for executives, producers, directors, writers, film crew, tech crew, cast members, etc...) and they do it by making up fictional stories that grab our interests. Since it's really all about making money, I think their respect and appreciation to the continuity and history of Star Trek isn't their highest priority. Let's face it, the reality of the situation is that the film industry is actually really cold to the expectatoins of it's customers (you and me) and they'll throw anything out there with complete disregard to how well it makes sense as long as they get something out of it... and most of the time they succeed in doing that. Of course, there are rare cases where consumers won't let them get away with too much bull crap and those executives and producers end up having to cancel a show or a project. I personally feel that the true history of a fictional genre, such as Star Trek, lies in the hands of those who are most interested in it (the consumers - you and me), and a reliable and accurate account for what takes place in that genre is left up to us. I don't think we as consumers should rely on those executive and producers to establish the true coninuity and history of Star Trek, since it is quite obvious what their real intentions are with the subject matter. It is quite obvious the path that Star Trek has taken after Gene Roddenberry's death, and I personally don't think he would have let it end up the way it has become if he was still alive. So saying that, I don't see anything wrong in disregarding the cannonness of what has taken place after his death and edit what is true to the overal theme of Star Trek, such as omiting what we have seen in episodes of the various series, and what has been produced in the retail marketing arena (video games and books). So if the accounts in these items seems to be bogus, then why not just ignore it? Infact, why not post up a poll on what everyone agrees should be actual and factual to Star Trek and what should be ignored as bogus material?
- I hope I wasn't insensitive or offensive with this post. I keep looking at the first part of the first sentence and wonder if it'll get mis-interpreted in an offensive way. If it is, I'll edit it.
-
I can shoot down the legacy idea flat out.....
1:) Cannon is described as things seen on screen which does not contradict that which has been earlier established:
2:) The Trek Games do not constitute Trek Cannon neither do the novels or other Trek Items.
Therefore the Borg queens statement that the Borg evolved similar to humans overrides legacies plot that the Borg were created from V'yger...
-
I dunno about all this stuffs, but...
The borg are just icky, ugly critters with no fashion sense. :arms: And I would TOTALLY suggest some oxy facial cleanser for the queen. She seems to sweat and glisten a lot... it's amazing she doesn't have terrible acne. If they're so perfect... why not work on hygene a little? Who knows, maybe if they weren't so icky gooey, they'd actually get a few volunteers...
And if it wasn't for all the time-related stuff about V'ger's origins and the oh-so-confusing Enterprise series and so on, I had originally assumed that when what's-his-name joined with whats-her-name (the lady who became ms. cyborg) with the whole aspect of learning all that is learnable... I thought that would have been the birth of the borg? But I suppose it would take a heck of a lot more time than a few hundred years for the borg to establish themselves the way they have...
Bleh. I stick with my previous statement. The borg aren't really perfect... they're just gooey and have no fashion sense. I mean, flying geometrical shapes? How unoriginal! :P
And that's Aeries' blabbering... all done for the day. 8)
-Aeries.
-
the nazi's wernt perfect either (despite what they thought), but it did'nt stop them from trying, :lol:
-
Indeed... :/
-
But
They had better styling.
-
I agree. I remember the conversation that Raven and I had about how the Nazi's had the best looking military dress uniforms in history- after the Imperial officers of Star Wars, of course.
-
Actually, didn't the Nazis had a high rolling fashion company (that still exists today) design their uniforms?
-
I wouldn't doubt it. It obviously didn't make a bit of difference to their war-fighting abilities, but at least they looked sharp as they lost.
-
O.K...... you all do know that the main purpouse for Star Trek is to make money (for executives, producers, directors, writers, film crew, tech crew, cast members, etc...) and they do it by making up fictional stories that grab our interests. Since it's really all about making money, I think their respect and appreciation to the continuity and history of Star Trek isn't their highest priority. Let's face it, the reality of the situation is that the film industry is actually really cold to the expectatoins of it's customers (you and me) and they'll throw anything out there with complete disregard to how well it makes sense as long as they get something out of it... and most of the time they succeed in doing that. Of course, there are rare cases where consumers won't let them get away with too much bull crap and those executives and producers end up having to cancel a show or a project. I personally feel that the true history of a fictional genre, such as Star Trek, lies in the hands of those who are most interested in it (the consumers - you and me), and a reliable and accurate account for what takes place in that genre is left up to us. I don't think we as consumers should rely on those executive and producers to establish the true coninuity and history of Star Trek, since it is quite obvious what their real intentions are with the subject matter. It is quite obvious the path that Star Trek has taken after Gene Roddenberry's death, and I personally don't think he would have let it end up the way it has become if he was still alive. So saying that, I don't see anything wrong in disregarding the cannonness of what has taken place after his death and edit what is true to the overal theme of Star Trek, such as omiting what we have seen in episodes of the various series, and what has been produced in the retail marketing arena (video games and books). So if the accounts in these items seems to be bogus, then why not just ignore it? Infact, why not post up a poll on what everyone agrees should be actual and factual to Star Trek and what should be ignored as bogus material?
- I hope I wasn't insensitive or offensive with this post. I keep looking at the first part of the first sentence and wonder if it'll get mis-interpreted in an offensive way. If it is, I'll edit it.
Cheers. :D
(just found this post.)
-
I wouldn't doubt it. It obviously didn't make a bit of difference to their war-fighting abilities, but at least they looked sharp as they lost.
actually, the germans had (and still have) a very good war fighting capability.
We just had a better one ;)
-
Nah, you just weren't fighting on as many fronts as we were ;)
Never forget, the Yanks saved your asses.
-
All right you two, nice nice...
That stupid war ended long ago, and IMO, NOBODY won. Only the dead can know the true horror of war.
A lighter subject please.
-
Weasel is VERY right. About everything.
Nevertheless, the Borg have no fashion sense. End of commentary.
-
Agreed about ze Vawr.
Borg or GTFO :P
-
Agreed about ze Vawr.
Borg or GTFO :P
but podge.. the german nicked my sunlounger! :D
My towel were on it and everythin'!!!
Now where were we?
ah yes...borg, doable or not?
-
I think with the invention of nano-probes, someone in the delta quadrant could not contain them and began turning people into cyborgs. This is just me, however, I think the Borg came about when a Nano Project went FUBAR. As the Nano-Probes assimilated/ transformed the people they took, the becan to link up cybernetically, mentaly. Over time, the nanites becan interrupting brain functions, making them think all as One. They becan to get technology as the nano-probes began establishing fully.
When thet traveled in space and found new species, they assimlated them and their technology and began building on from what they has tarted with. More and More species were assimilated and new technologies were mixed in with their own. This is what makes the borg more powerful and dangerouse. However, this is just my theory.
-
I just saw in Reuters one of the coolest explanations for the origin of the Borg.
They simply evolved from a species like this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2938585820080529
Aka the "biological" part in: "We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own" is really ancient... way before they became machine and tool users.
-
Interesting stuff there senator! Verry interesting!
-
A little bit of necro-threading, yes, but I found this surfing youtube today and it seemed really cool. :] So here you go.
&feature=related
Despite the vulcan lady [no clue what that's all about], I thought the hypothesis of the origin of the borg was really quite interesting. Similar to what I've had in mind.
-
I'm not sure, but I believe that was part of the plot line in Legacy.
-
Those are the shitty things they stuck into Legacy because it was rushed out with out proper cutscenes or cinematics, and IIRC, missing a good chunk of the story line that would have made things make alot more sense.
-
Yup, Legacy deleted scenes, so to speak. Piece of crap, that game, tbh.
-
All of this has been suggested before. The only thing that I want to see them do with the Borg is make them even more mysterious.
Read, the new TNG novels "Resistance" and "Before Dishonor". The Borg finally do what they claimed to all along: ADAPT!
I agree with the majority here. The reason the Borg are so tired and commonplace now is that they explained too friggin' much about them! I mean, we all love the Klingons, because there's still a crapload we don't know, same with the Romulans! Why do they feel the need to EXPLAIN everything?
Mystery=suspense=paranoia=conflict=fan interest=ratings=$$$$$
Why can Paramount never understand that "equation"?