Bridge Commander Central

Recreational Forums => Trek Discussion => Ships & Tech Talk => Topic started by: Dalek on September 05, 2008, 12:34:10 PM

Title: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: Dalek on September 05, 2008, 12:34:10 PM
I've always thought the Luna class USS Titan to be canon cos the winning design (it was a competition for those who don't know) is recognised by Paramount and they are major Trekkie copywright owners and stuff. But i have also read that people don't think it's canon because we haven't seen it on TV. But its in books. The New Frontier books are considered non-canon but the Excalibur is canon, right to the bit when it got blown up. So who's to say that the Titan is uncanon when the producers and company recognise as, well...canon?

I believe this may become a flame war as...well... canon talks usually end up like that. But its good to hear people's opinion.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: martyr on September 06, 2008, 06:41:30 AM
i think the general rule is that if it is on screen it is canon, if not then it is not canon.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: intrepid90 on September 06, 2008, 07:27:18 AM
i think the general rule is that if it is on screen it is canon, if not then it is not canon.
100% correct
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Villain on September 06, 2008, 07:41:33 AM
Spot on. And to get in before it: When one part of canon contradicts another, it's usually the newer one that is canon. But that's a mind bender.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Dalek on September 06, 2008, 10:23:46 AM
Hmm. But thing is though, the Connie refit (just one of the many examples) is recognised by Paramount but so is the Titan and all the other Luna class ships. The only truly canon thing about the Titan is that we know that Riker commands her. I suppose the Luna version is the "closest" to canon we'll ever get to her. It could be argued the same with other BC USS Titan's (I love LC's interpretaion) but cos there is only one "published" version, then... who knows?
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: faro0485 on September 06, 2008, 03:43:02 PM
This was on screen (of sorts), does it make the ship cannon?

Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Kirk on September 06, 2008, 03:54:42 PM
no
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: 086gf on September 06, 2008, 05:17:43 PM
This was on screen (of sorts), does it make the ship cannon?



Not. Even. Close. Use you head man.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Bones on September 07, 2008, 05:24:43 AM
Personally I hate Luna design it's ugly as hell, the best Titan would be something like Galaxy class refit and the best existing candidate for it is Mnemosyne class, I found that ship one of the best Galaxy like designs ever made. If they ever would be up to make canon Titan they should make it something like Galaxy and so I never considered Luna class to be the true Titan cuz I simply don't like it ;)
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: intrepid90 on September 07, 2008, 06:18:28 AM
well the luna is wiley's texturing wip, right?
I really like the design nice and smooth...
but I wouldnt choose her for a canon titan as well we could need sth like the century for an early 25th century ship
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Phoenix on September 07, 2008, 08:38:41 AM
I downloaded a ship uss titan a while ago, its a mnemosyth (sorry arent sure of spelling!!!) class ship, similar to a remoddeled galaxy and looks sweet, when all said and done what ships someone releases under what name is fully up to them, i came across one once called the uss buttercup!!!
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Dalek on September 07, 2008, 09:43:06 AM
I thought Cpt Russell had a locked thread on a WIP Luna. Let me investigate Wiley's one...
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: moed on September 07, 2008, 11:37:47 PM
Personally I hate Luna design it's ugly as hell, the best Titan would be something like Galaxy class refit and the best existing candidate for it is Mnemosyne class, I found that ship one of the best Galaxy like designs ever made. If they ever would be up to make canon Titan they should make it something like Galaxy and so I never considered Luna class to be the true Titan cuz I simply don't like it ;)

Wholeheartedly don't agree. The Luna design is very nice. I do agree the the Mnemosyne class is excellent but, the Luna design IMHO is just as nice... just different.

And yes, Cpt. Russell is/was working on the Titan but haven't heard anything about it in quite a while.

BTW, even though "when on screen - it's considered canon" is usually the norm, I've read several articles from even Paramount people that state that the Luna Class is considered canon due to the fact that Paramount owned Pocket books is the one that started the design contest in the first place and so therefore, an "exception" was made and the Titan is considered for all intents and purposes "Canon".
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Aeries on September 07, 2008, 11:41:44 PM
I thought Cpt Russell had a locked thread on a WIP Luna. Let me investigate Wiley's one...

Wiley's working on Kaden's USS Serenity, *not* the Luna. The Luna is like a miniaturized Mithra... or vise/versa, the Mithra is like a super-sized Luna with fries and extra cheese...
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Dalek on September 08, 2008, 10:58:48 AM
I thought Cpt Russell had a locked thread on a WIP Luna. Let me investigate Wiley's one...

Wiley's working on Kaden's USS Serenity, *not* the Luna. The Luna is like a miniaturized Mithra... or vise/versa, the Mithra is like a super-sized Luna with fries and extra cheese...

hehe. Looking forward to the Mithra. I must admit, I like the Mnemosyne version but it doesn't fit in with the rest of late TNG/Post Nemesis. You know, no stubby necks that hold up huge saucers. This is the Post-Nem era and the Luna (and the Mithra as well) fit perfectly into that line. Ships that don't have stubby necks are:
Excalibur
Sovereign
Defiant
Steamrunner (not so sure about this one though)
Akira

You get the idea? The Luna fits the bill. It's recognised by Paramount because A) they started a flipping contest so they could let the peeps design a different ship, B) They own Star Trek rights.

The only thing I don't like about the Luna is its impulse engines. Disgusting things if you don't mind me saying so.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: NeoKaede on September 08, 2008, 03:28:22 PM
The Luna is official (it's featured in the covers of the novels, there's a model of it), but not canon unless Paramount states otherwise.

And it's ugly.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: intrepid90 on September 08, 2008, 04:14:50 PM
The Luna is official (it's featured in the covers of the novels, there's a model of it), but not canon unless Paramount states otherwise.
corrected and qft
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Pegasus on September 08, 2008, 07:14:23 PM
Not a part of the official collection which was featured in any of the movies or series.

not canon, no matter what ever the book reading fanboys want to say. :arms:
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Darkthunder on September 08, 2008, 07:39:38 PM
Not a part of the official collection which was featured in any of the movies or series.

not canon, no matter what ever the book reading fanboys want to say. :arms:

QFT!
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Aeries on September 08, 2008, 08:47:43 PM
I like the Luna regardless. I always thought a cool timeline would be:

NX -> Bonaventure -> Akira -> Luna -> Mithra & Ancheron...

Idk. Just always thought it would fit well. I like the ship... Cool design.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Dalek on September 09, 2008, 10:25:36 AM
Well, books. Take the "New Frontier" series for example. In some cases, the book series has become so popular that other things have crossed into that series. I'm not quite sure what other things are but other things nonetheless.

I've always considered the Mithra to be the Luna's big sister. As for the Ancheron, I've never heard of it. Has anyone else heard of it? Is it something Aeries is working on and I haven't realised? Damn, need to be in the flow more...
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: NeoKaede on September 09, 2008, 10:28:40 AM
The Luna is official (it's featured in the covers of the novels, there's a model of it), but not canon unless Paramount states otherwise.
corrected and qft

I don't see anything needing to be corrected in my post 8)
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Dalek on September 09, 2008, 11:22:14 AM
Neither do I Neo.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Bones on September 09, 2008, 03:06:43 PM
I think he meant <And it's ugly> corrected and QFT ;)
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: NeoKaede on September 09, 2008, 04:26:15 PM
I think he meant <And it's ugly> corrected and QFT ;)

I know. The  8) was there to imply sarcasm :)
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Bones on September 10, 2008, 12:12:25 PM
 :lol: oh I see now  :P
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Dalek on September 10, 2008, 12:23:23 PM
Shall I poll on what should be the canon Titan? Please tell me of any other designs I may not have heard of!
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Kirk on September 10, 2008, 12:27:52 PM
Does it really matter, the answer is that there isn't one, period.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Dalek on September 10, 2008, 12:32:36 PM
True. But, there is a ship ot there called Titan and it might as well have a face.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Kirk on September 10, 2008, 12:34:57 PM
Right, the same "face" all fan made ships get. Fan made ships not canon. As beautiful of a design DJ's Enterprise F is, it isn't canon nor will it be until featured onscreen. That goes for everything.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Dalek on September 10, 2008, 12:38:16 PM
You spoil my fun! :D

If I did a poll, it would be about what the fans would like the Titan to look like even though they know for a fact that it'll never happen on TV.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: martyr on September 10, 2008, 05:07:35 PM
not that luna, please gott
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Bones on September 10, 2008, 05:22:40 PM
I'd vote for mnemosyne, second place for LC's galaxy evo last place for luna  8)
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Kirk on September 10, 2008, 05:23:49 PM
Yeah, the Luna is just not a very attractive design.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Dalek on September 11, 2008, 11:07:57 AM
Yeah, the Luna is just not a very attractive design.

The only problem I have with the Mnemosyne is that it's not very fitting with 2380 onwards (which I have mentioned before) and, the deflector dish looks like someone squeezed someone cheeks to make your mouth look like a fish.
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: JimmyB76 on September 11, 2008, 12:16:51 PM
and, the deflector dish looks like someone squeezed someone cheeks to make your mouth look like a fish.
lol interesting description, tho i see the point youre making :P
ya, that deflector does seem a little out of place for the rest of the ship, IMO...
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Bones on September 12, 2008, 05:35:19 AM
Yeah they could have made it more like sovereign or even intrepid style deflector cuz the one in mnemosyne looks exactly like unnaturally narrowed lips or simply fish mouth but still it's the best looking Titan out there
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: JimmyB76 on September 12, 2008, 08:08:13 AM
honestly, that is the only thing about that ship which makes me reluctant to ever really use it...  i love the rest of the ship, but that deflector is tough to get over... 
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Bones on September 12, 2008, 08:12:56 AM
So I think someone should remodel the deflector and refresh a little bit texturing :D
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: JimmyB76 on September 12, 2008, 10:10:27 AM
that would be sweet :)
(if they could get permission to do so anyway...)
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Aeries on September 12, 2008, 10:34:19 AM
that would be sweet :)
(if they could get permission to do so anyway...)

Or just build the whole thing from scratch...? ;)
Title: Re: USS Titan as the Luna class: Canon or not?
Post by: Dalek on September 12, 2008, 11:17:54 AM
That's basically making another Titan. Although it's all nice ideas. Did ZZ make the Mnemosyne? On the webbysite it says he exported it, not made it so it's not very clear who made it.

Fish.
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: JimmyB76 on September 12, 2008, 11:35:39 AM
Wicked Zombie was the original author (i think)...
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: Aeries on September 12, 2008, 04:29:50 PM
Maybe I should make a USS-Titan Mithra Class variant...? :3
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: Dalek on September 12, 2008, 04:32:06 PM
Sounds cool! :D
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: JimmyB76 on September 12, 2008, 05:24:27 PM
get the mithra done first, the last thing you need to do is take on 78,651 projects all at once and not be able to finish any of them :P
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: Aeries on September 12, 2008, 09:28:06 PM
get the mithra done first, the last thing you need to do is take on 78,651 projects all at once and not be able to finish any of them :P

Yeeeaaaahhhh... Guess I kinda tend to do that...
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: Dalek on September 13, 2008, 10:25:30 AM
Personally, I wish the saucer of the Luna was wider, the warp engines further out and the sensor pod a lot bigger.

Oh, apparently Wesley Crusher returned to Starfleet, is a Lieutenant Commander and is Chief Engineer of the Titan. I call that more canon than anything else about the Titan. http://trekweb.com/articles/2008/02/05/John-Logan-on-the-Deleted-Lt-Commander-Wesley-Crusher-Cameo-in-Nemesis.shtml
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: Pegasus on September 18, 2008, 10:47:43 AM
Personally, I wish the saucer of the Luna was wider, the warp engines further out and the sensor pod a lot bigger.

Oh, apparently Wesley Crusher returned to Starfleet, is a Lieutenant Commander and is Chief Engineer of the Titan. I call that more canon than anything else about the Titan. http://trekweb.com/articles/2008/02/05/John-Logan-on-the-Deleted-Lt-Commander-Wesley-Crusher-Cameo-in-Nemesis.shtml

Once again... not on the final cut, not canon.

Hell, In a deleted cut in generations, Kirk and Soran beat the Sh*t out of each other until Kirk was shot in the back and died.

Canon?

 No.
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: Tuskin38 on September 20, 2008, 09:14:16 AM
Personally, I wish the saucer of the Luna was wider, the warp engines further out and the sensor pod a lot bigger.

Oh, apparently Wesley Crusher returned to Starfleet, is a Lieutenant Commander and is Chief Engineer of the Titan. I call that more canon than anything else about the Titan. http://trekweb.com/articles/2008/02/05/John-Logan-on-the-Deleted-Lt-Commander-Wesley-Crusher-Cameo-in-Nemesis.shtml

Yeah but he isn't the CE in the novels.
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: Dalek on September 20, 2008, 09:15:34 AM
Personally, I wish the saucer of the Luna was wider, the warp engines further out and the sensor pod a lot bigger.

Oh, apparently Wesley Crusher returned to Starfleet, is a Lieutenant Commander and is Chief Engineer of the Titan. I call that more canon than anything else about the Titan. http://trekweb.com/articles/2008/02/05/John-Logan-on-the-Deleted-Lt-Commander-Wesley-Crusher-Cameo-in-Nemesis.shtml

Yeah but he isn't the CE in the novels.

That's why I now believe that he novels aren't canon enough. :D
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: undedavenger on October 01, 2008, 03:22:53 PM
I personally think the Luna class is nice-looking. And quite honestly, it's hard to tell a convincing exploration story in a floating city like the Galaxy. A smaller more spartan ship makes more sense to me.

As far as being canon, I'm pretty sure it is not, but should be. I know a lot of the old novels are ridiculous and contradictory. but the post-nemesis novels are all carefully interweaved, and I think are good for canonization. Especially considering CBS/Paramount seems to have no interest in moving forward with Star Trek, instead offering a Lucas-style prequel. Curse you for introducing that, Lucas! CURSE YOU! lol
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: NeoKaede on October 01, 2008, 04:52:21 PM
As far as being canon, I'm pretty sure it is not, but should be. I know a lot of the old novels are ridiculous and contradictory. but the post-nemesis novels are all carefully interweaved, and I think are good for canonization.

Yeah, they're carefully interwaeaved. And full of ridiculous name-dropping and fan-w*nk, so, no, thanks :P
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: Aeries on October 01, 2008, 09:02:38 PM
Perhaps I should start writing again...
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: Ryles on October 09, 2008, 02:38:05 AM
The post Nemesis novels for DS9, and of course the Titan series itself, are pretty awesome... The Pre-Nemesis TNG novels (A Time to... series), and a couple that take place immediately after are pretty damned good too. That is up until a overly glorified fan-fic gone wrong titled Before Dishonor.  The vast majority of that book falls into the same realm I placed Star Trek V and the Star Wars prequels into.

That being said,  the first couple Titan books were written before the design of the ship was even formalized, which could be said to have made some of the book read like it was taking place on Generic Starship 1138.

I didn't like the design at first... it came off as a bastardized Akira with mutant nebula bits tossed on. However, the design has grown on me. Just like Voyager's did. It just took a bit of time.

Almost canon enough.
Title: Re: USS Titan: Canonicity
Post by: undedavenger on October 23, 2008, 01:35:05 AM
Here's my philosophy. Who gives two craps what CBS Paramount think? They aren;t giveing us much in the way of new Trek, so canon is whatever you want it to be. If you like the Luna, put it in your game, imagine you are on it chasing Deanna Troi with fuzzy pink handcuffs, whatever.

If you hate it, make your own!

"Necessity is the mother of all inventions"