Bridge Commander Central
Recreational Forums => Trek Discussion => Films & Shows => Topic started by: Daystar70 on October 22, 2009, 07:06:57 AM
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This is a quote from an interview with JJ abrhams
"Following the box office success of J. J. Abrams' Star Trek reboot and the announcement that actors Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto had tentatively agreed to appear in two sequels, internet rumors began circulating about the plot of the second film. Abrams hinted that because of the alternate timeline created in the first film, that reintroducing Khan into Star Trek lore remained a possibility. Abrams told MTV, ""[Khan and Kirk] exist ? and while their history may not be exactly as people are familiar with, I would argue that a person's character is what it is," Abrams said of the notion that his Khan could be just as evil, even if Kirk never stranded him on Ceti Alpha V. "Certain people are destined to cross paths and come together, and Khan is out there?even if he doesn't have the same issues."[29]o
I had already decided for sure to make Khan a Main villain in my revised Daystar series, and while researching and watching "space seed" again for ideas, i stumbled upon this info, Obviously they would have to recast Khan but if they did a good job recasting him, it could be quite cool.
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Only the 100th time this has been mentioned by jj and crew. Though I doubt they will go that wayI really do. Save a familiar character for the third movie. Let the second movie reinforce the audience that this really is a new fork in the road.
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I agree, the latest i heard they are thijnking not of a "villain" but a "dilemma" for the plot.
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I'm thinking Khan for this movie, then the 3rd on will be the launch of the Enterprise B and he some how doesn't fall in the nexus
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It doesn't matter what the plot, we all know ejecting the warp core will save the day!
Seriously, they need to come up with something new, or this new series will just fall into the uncreative hole Star Trek has rotted in for a decade or more. Forget Khan. Maybe on like the 5th or 6th film. But lets get the new stuff out there now.
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I disagree, Khan was voted by The Online Critics association one of the ":top 10 screen villains" of all time. For good reason. Character wise, seeing a new take on Kirk and Khan battling wits would make me quite happy. Last time, Khan tricked Kirk and it was avery Uneven fight with Enterprise crippled, i want to see two starships, fully shielded, ready for battle, and see who's strategy wins by the end.
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Logically, it would be Kirk. Superior intelligence does not mean superior knowledge. Kirk beat Khan in both Space Seed and in TWOK because he knew the starship and tactics better than Khan.
As for the other, Michael Myers would be considered a great movie villain, but too many movies has made him just another slasher. Khan is just fine the way he is. Seriously, is this all Trek fans demand? To see their favorite characters and plots rehashed? That's sad. There is virtually limitless potential in the Star Trek universe, why revisit the same stuff.
Not to mention that TWOK is not just a Star Trek classic, it is a MOVIE CLASSIC. It stands on its own.
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Agreed on the classic bit. You can still do both, have something new going on, and add Khan as the villain, just as You can have lex luthor in a superman film and still offer more going on around them.
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Yeah, but that didn't happen in the last Superman movie, either. it was bits and pieces of previous plots thrown together. Hollywood in general has no imagination. Roddenberry got together some of the best Sci-Fi writers of the day to write TOS and TNG. They need to go back to that, rather than letting hollywood animals write the scripts. Some of the authors of the Trek and Star Wars novels are inventive and write captivating work. I say turn some of them loose on the next Trek film!
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Actually with Trek, and this is not to say there isnt "some good" fan stuff, but for some reason, fan made Trek media tends to be Great on visuals Horrible at diolouge and delivery, Take Hidden frontier for one example (phase2/formally New voyages is an exception, it is well done) Hidden frontier gets kudos for being "ambitious as Hell:" and ive seen some Great awesome ship battles, i remember one episode where major Kira and the defiant comes warping in with a Dominion Fleet with her, to save the day at the Briar patch vs the Breen and Tholians. BUT..that being said..The acting was HORRID and they really had a problem with technobabble to the extreme, Novel wise, okay, i have read some great stories, Like that one (title eludes me) where in mirror universe 7 of 9 is an agent for the cardassians and undercover, becomes Kira/Intendents Lesbian Mistress..smoking hot erotic writing adult Trek, at its best. (i'm a perv so sexuality in Trek is a huge win-win for me, i'm one of the saps who drooled at T'pols massage and decontamination scenes and i'lll admit it every time lol)
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I'm not talking about fans writing this stuff, although they should be open to the idea of bringing in the few good fan authors. I'm talking about established sci-fi/fantasy writers like David George and R.A. Salvatore. There are several great scifi authors out there who I'm sure would like to have a few big Hollywood paychecks.
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you cant do Khan, while somethings can be explained away you cant explain away why khan looks totally diffrent, no to khan
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Need I point out Kirk and Spock and Uhura and Chekov and Scotty. They all look different. As far as the JJverse is concerned, they haven't met Khan yet.
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Do i need to bitch slap you on the whole "actors appearence"? topic? candle in all this time i have never met anyone as close minded and stubborn for a fan of a sci fi series. (that was jokingly said not hostile please nbote the tone is meant as such). Khan can be replaced. superman can, batman can, ANYONE can. open your mind brother! sheesh. NO actor is irreplaceable. character is more important than actor. Everyone knows this, it doesnt have to be explained. I cant believe seriously,you even said that. No offense meant, but c'mon....how do YOU explain saavik mr no explanation? hm? can you explain saaviks change of appearence? bet you cant.
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Candle i wanna apologise if i sounded Harsh or Hostile. Your opinion is your own, i just was caught off guard. Your very passionate and so am i. But know this- i do like you.
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Sorry, but if the next film had Khan in it my faith in a good reboot will go out of the window, perhaps someone giving mention to his Tyranny on earth before botany bay would work though.
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well i think charther and actor are one in the same. Chris Pine does a shoody Kirk, Quinto didnt even act like a Vulcan. And no actor today can act like Montoblan did for Space Seed or The Wrath of Khan. Remember it was there personality that made the chareter.
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So, they're different. For all you know, the JJKhan could be much better than the original. I honestly don't care, I just find it mildly amusing that we need to debate if Khan is going to be crappy or not. We simply do not know and its a common human trait to be scared of the unkown and wollop it over the end if we don't like it at first.
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no because no one can pull off a montiblan except him thats why and its impossible to be a better villian them him. Then again what do i care i wont see this movie anyway
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As Daystar said, any actor can be replaced. While it might be difficult for some to imagine new actors in familiar roles, it doesn't make the new actor any less worth than the original.
Regarding your opinion of Pine's Kirk, and Quinto's Spock, those are ofcourse your opinions. I think you'll find that the majority disagrees with you on that subject thou.
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no because no one can pull off a montiblan except him thats why and its impossible to be a better villian them him. Then again what do i care i wont see this movie anyway
Yeah but they said also Nero would be a crappy copy of nemezified Picard - shinzon while he was a formidable villain as well as a really good ST character [at least far better tthan shinzon (not comparing to TOS characters)]
I personally feel Pine, Quinto, Urban and any other new crew DID justice to originals... we can't blame Quinto for not volcan behavior as his mother was murdered and his hommeworld wiped out... I bet even you woul shed a tear when such a tragedy would occur ;)
I think JJ will find new Khan easly ;)
btw. please don't call me heretic or TOS doomsday/ TOS killer I'm just TREK FAN (no matter what it's like... I simply like it)
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Pine's swagger at the very end as he walked the briudge and said "Bones" was DEAD ON james t kirk. but u had to be like..paying attention i guess. BLinders wont help yoiu see that.
and gee, funny how karl urban did so good as mcccoy he made leonard nimoy CRY! yeah, whatever candle. Characters and actors are not one and the same. If i could only acccept Linda carter as wonder woman, then any new film would suck. and then gee..10 ssuccesful actors played dr who...going on 11..and BONd? they never explain whyb HIS frikkin face changes now do they?
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actully i felt shinzon was better personally. Also a Vulcan should restrian himself no matter what, Quinto acted very unvulcan like even at the trial with kirk appearing angry. Also pine spoke to fast, kirk doesnt talk that fast, McCoy sounded from Texas not Georgia, Im southern and there is a diffrence i promise. And kirk sounded more east coast than mid west
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That last statement was idiotic. He lost his MOM and PLANET. Vulcans Have emotions-they simply learned to control them..but they are not perfect. T'pol slept with trip because she FELT like it! what about when soval, in "in a mirror darkly" screamed out of panic as the ISS Avenger was about to explode? Or hm...seems to me Spock also in the JJ version was no 1) dating Uhura-why? because as the producers said- why NOT? The vulcan female maaquis Aarmas dealer was actually Falling for quarks seduction in "the maquis"(i doint buy it was an act to get the goods she had the deal already, she legitimitley was finding herself curious and attracted)
Valeria-she was part of the conspiracy to kill the chancellor--that vulcan in that ds9 episode who suffeed what gee, spock did-post traumatic stress disorder,and went on a murder spreee-- need i go on mr vulcan expert? and btw these were not "abnkormal cases" they were NORMAL vulcans who--snapped--so your understanding of vulcans is limited to amok time at best and gee-Stonn wasnt under pon farr yet he went along being theres Pus** whipped by T pring. then theres Tuvok..how many gtimes...never mind itll go in one ear out the other.
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I think Candle is forgetting, that Spock is only half-Vulcan (as it was clearly indicated in the latest movie, and in movies/series before that).
This statement "a Vulcan should restrian himself no matter what", i'd really like to know what you base this on. Are you saying no Vulcan, in the history of Star Trek has EVER gotten emotional about something? If your answer is YES, then you are bold face liar, if I ever seen one.
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I hate that these threads turn to candle bash but geez...i'm going to take a step back, breath and remember everyone has opinions and varying views. and probably try not to keep reading this thread LOL only if to preserve the Flaming from growing. Candle i'd use that old cliche "lets agree to disagree" but i dunno if that even can apply ..the difference here is not "opinion" because your statements are the opposite of what has been overtly determined in TREK lore as "fact" (fictional fact or not) example- if i said jedi hate lightsabers- ALL jedi hate lightsabers- is that an opinion? No. because an opinion is a "strong belief not substantiated by any facts to back them up". But see, there are facts in said example- a lot of film and written historical data to back up the fact Jedi DO like lightsabers (or maybe not "like"but accept them as their tools) so the "opinion" would be a case of Lying-thats one word-or Mis-information-based statements of Gooberism.
Since there are numerous examples i can pull from my ASS on vulcans breaking down from Canon tv and film, let alone books- it trumps the opinion on "proper vulcans" half or fulll. so your statement by logic MUST fall under "ILL informed" either that or a case of serious reluctance or unwillingness to even acknowledge facts "you dont agree with". newsflash-
Your not entitled to a fact. your entitled to an opinion. But the evidence in vulcan breakdowns is enough to substantiate it as "factual" that it happens.
case closed. and thats not me being stubborn, thats me using definitions and common sense-if u choose to usurp that and say "your" right and the "facts" are wrong, well, that would discredit a lot of future arguments i really hope your above this dude
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QFT, and that's the last you'll hear from me in this thread.
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you know what yall are right, let me be honest it was a good movie, it enjoyed it i just didnt think it was star trek to me. Also please forgive any errors or misktaes i make as i just got back from a party but ill admint it was goo.
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It's ok man, if u had some boze, i can totally understand your being that way, i did not want to make you look stupid, i did not want to be "right", i just wanted to challenge you to think outside the box...kate mulgrew has been playing katheryn hepburn on stage and everyone thinks the resemblence to the classic actress is UNCANNY. If JJ pulls Khan out in no 2, who's to say a breakout star will Nail the part? Batman after batman and robin looked like it was toast as a franchise. James Bond was looking like it was time to rest in peace to.
But daniel craigg and christian bale saved both franchises. why? Good actors, discovered. good actors, with a good script. star trek the motion picture was boring boring sucky boring ILIA and her legs were the only cool part for me, and the brief fx of stuff like warping enterprise. But they spent like what seemed like 45 minutes of kirk in a worker bee looking at the enterprise. WOK BAM! consider a lot of reboots or resets as setup films, and your odds will be a memorable second. discard the trek odd even number crap, this is a clean slate. LOVE your classic star trek, JJ did nothing to kill it. he went out of his way to clarify this is an ALTERNATE timeline=--how the F*** can you mess up an ALTERNATE timeline? it was 'correct" in its own continuality. i can even explain a few minor quibbles-
1.) how did the feds know what romulans looked like prior to balance of terror? Answer- nero. simple. we dont know what havok he caused between kelvin and destroying vulcan, but everyone seeemed to know a massive romulan ship is out there.
2.) enterprise built on earth.- william shatner (who may btw be in cameo in next jj film), said himself it makes MORE sense it was made on earth, back when the stuff written in the y60's we didnt take into consideration what we kow science wise now-- an artififical gravity on a ship means building on earth is LOGISTICALLY smarter!! no slow shuttlepods and vac suit workers..u can do it in an atmosphere with better tools. THIS IS REALISTIC-its as sensible a liberty as the NINJA part of batman begins-that made more sense than the 40+ years of established batman origin if u ask me, he always displayed Ninja like skills.
The desighn of ENterprise- Nero destroyed armadas, and caused havok. starrfleet had new priorities-they likely assumed romulans had this super tech and beefed up their ships for that.
KIRK being promoted to captain at end not realistic? Bullshit. You forget--old spock is around. seeing as how the temporal prime directive is useless in this unfixable time, he may have told starfleet Who he is,and the fate of james t kirk and said "get his ass in that chair."-sound logical? does to me.
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it almost seems to me this thread has lost its original point...
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yeah should we lock it down?
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Before doing so, I actually must agree with Candle on something. As much as I loved the new movie, Khan is one thing they don't need to do. It's one of those things that shouldn't be messed with. The Planet Killer, sure. The creepy little critters that attacked Deneva and killed Kirk's brother and sister-in-law, sure. Khan, no way.
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His point wasnt that it "shouldnt"be done (well he thought that to) the debate heated up over his comment that how can u explain the appearence difference? and like how there was 2 saavik actresses, it was a strange comment.
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i agree it should not be done...
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I think the next film's villain should be Kor. The Klingons need to be shown in the reboot in my opinion. With Kor, Kirk actually has a reemerging nemesis similar to Batman and the Joker.
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Klingons as a main villain lets them start on the recurring villain stereotype. Abrams is like a child with ADD (Which is why he's interesting, its always different, granted, but save them to knock out the Ent-A), He should do Khan, why? Because it's a rewrite of TOS, and Khan was a significant villain (to the point of having his own movie with the most memorable Trek line ever).
I agree that the Klingons need a proper introduction, but I don't think the whole movie should be about them. It's a new universe, let it keep going with the massive force it has. If the second is better than the first (which will be a hard feat, I loved it for a movie that had to set the foundation of TOS for new fans and still belt out a villain and bring action to Trek, neverless I don't doubt it will be better), it has to be Khan, it means we'll get a new Big E for the third movie.
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Wow, i've read everything and i agree that the cast did a superb job in the new movie. Especially the james t kirk swung at the end movie that pine did. That was superb. I loved eric bana too.
Khan as a a villain, sounds great but i agree somewhere old khan must be left alone, but hey, they said that about the joker too and about batman and of kirk. And it's even better now!
Which actor they should chose, i dunno.. heath ledger would be fine but unfortunately he passed away..
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mabey we could get the guy that played Robeau to return as Khan :P
some other suggestions
1. stick with the Latinos, and get a sexy Mexican/Mexican-American/anybody else from south of the border (carribean included) for him
2. wanna find out if The Rock is a trekkie?
3. Talk to Bollywood for an actor (IE find out if the new tech nerds are also TREK nerds)
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Which actor they should chose, i dunno.. heath ledger would be fine but unfortunately he passed away..
Well, the ONLY name that i've seen thrown around in the past 9 months has been Javier Bardem(No Country for Old Men).
mabey we could get the guy that played Robeau to return as Khan :P
some other suggestions
1. stick with the Latinos, and get a sexy Mexican/Mexican-American/anybody else from south of the border (carribean included) for him
2. wanna find out if The Rock is a trekkie?
3. Talk to Bollywood for an actor (IE find out if the new tech nerds are also TREK nerds)
And to continue from above...I can see why everyone wants him to do it.
BUT
Over the last few months, talk of the Klingons has become more frequent from both cast and crew and as others have said above that is a good direction to go in.
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if they do, they should do a virtual makeup test, first, if they're gonna go with appliances. since this is the equivelant of TOS, i hope they're smart enough to do up any klingon actors TOS style
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In that deleted scene in STXI, the Klingon helmets had faint ridges.
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In that deleted scene in STXI, the Klingon helmets had faint ridges.
They could be wearing the masks with ridges because they have none, and want to have some semblance of honor.
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Mickey Rourke for Khan. Prove me wrong. :dontcare: "I want my burd!"
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I've got a theory about Khan/Montalban casting probs, and would love to see if anyone agrees. The essence of Khan is intelligence, erudition, masculinity, charm and arrogance (his fatal flaw). Like many movie stars of his generation (Lancaster, Peck, Mitchum). Montalban had those qualities (or at least knew how to play them), but few do today . How many present day actors do, or can convey convincingly? (all those Pattinson 'pretty boys' *aargh*). Clooney comes close overall, but no. Rourke & Cage - admire, but just a bit too 'damaged' and leftfield. I could almost imagine producers looking for a Brit or foreign actor: like Rickman as Hans Gruber (c'mon, wasn't he a revelation and a great villain?). Or here's a really wildcard and JJ connection: Cruise...(bit short, but has a lot of the other qualities...lol).
Or... how about Patrick Stewart? Wouldn't that be wild....
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The thing is...and I think many people forget this...if they do bring in Khan...it wouldn't be Wrath of Khan. It would have to be Space Seed.
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They shouldn't do Kahn altogether - doing another Kahn would only be rehashing old stuff that's been done before.
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They shouldn't do Kahn altogether - doing another Kahn would only be rehashing old stuff that's been done before.
and undoubtedly better.
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considering that there's currently a wave of 80's nostalga going on, it's a possibility. i've been hearing complaints from a cousin in this vein. remember, they're thinking of the current generation of teenagesr, who've never heard of this stuff, and the 20 somethings that might have only vague memories. to them, it's all new, so...
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considering that there's currently a wave of 80's nostalga going on, it's a possibility. i've been hearing complaints from a cousin in this vein. remember, they're thinking of the current generation of teenagesr, who've never heard of this stuff, and the 20 somethings that might have only vague memories. to them, it's all new, so...
*cough*A-TEAM*cough*
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This is a new timeline, so they should be coming up with new villians and things we've not even imagined. It's a joke they are going where we've already gone before but they can at least make something of it instead of just rehashing some of the best Trek moments ever.
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This is a new timeline, so they should be coing up with new villians and things we've not even imagined. It's a joke they are going where we've already gone before but they can at least make something of it instead of just rehashing some of the best Trek moments ever.
What he said. For all we know, the Enterprise will never encounter Khan at all and the series and film events we all know and love will never happen.
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*cough*A-TEAM*cough*
not just the A team. the Transformers revival, the GIJoe reboot (that flopped), the sudden revival of my little pony in the original style, etc. the only thing that's been missing so far is a movie reboot of Knight rider (there was a series reboot). even the TMNT have crawled back out. pretty soon, Power Rangers will get a reboot.
the only thing that'll make people cringe is if suddenly every single one of the 80's hair bands suddenly reappears. by then I'll be feeling REALLY old!
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Pretty soon, Power Rangers will get a reboot.
Now THAT will be a sad day...
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Power Rangers sort of has. They are rerunning the first Power Rangers but with some updated effects and cut scenes
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This is a new timeline, so they should be coing up with new villians and things we've not even imagined. It's a joke they are going where we've already gone before but they can at least make something of it instead of just rehashing some of the best Trek moments ever.
You make it sound like its 100% official that they are actually going that way when obviously they aren't even quite sure what they want to do yet. And I doubt will be on the list, well for serious consideration anyways. No, they wont do Khan I just know that they wont.
@FarShot
Thats exactly the reason im going with.(its the most logical I think)
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And if not all the Klingons had been affected, it makes sense for the human-ified ones to be given prison duties and such as opposed to warships.
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I think re-making the wrath of Khan for ST12 would be a grave mistake, there would need to be a space seed to set up Khans vengence towards Kirk or it makes no sense.
But if they did it may look a little like this.
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I'll tell you what needs to happen. JJ Abrams needs to be locked in a room with every ST: series and movie and not allowed to come out until he's seen ALL of them and then let him make the next Trek movie. I mean how can you know where you're going when you don't know where you've been? (that sounds like a song or something lol) :bitch:
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I'll tell you what needs to happen. JJ Abrams needs to be locked in a room with every ST: series and movie and not allowed to come out until he's seen ALL of them and then let him make the next Trek movie. I mean how can you know where you're going when you don't know where you've been? (that sounds like a song or something lol) :bitch:
He's watched some of it. He even has one of the old The Motion Picture jackets. Plus, he didn't write the movie. Real Star Trek fans wrote the movie. And he doesn't need to see every series and movie. Only TOS. And I don't think that's a good idea at all. I've said this a hundred times. We don't need anything that rehashes old stories. We need something new. That's the whole point, after all.
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I know the post is over 30 days old but i came across this clip and they discuss their opinion of a Khan JJ film near the end, and felt this view was very interesting..
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STXII: Revenge of the shirts.
Led by all those shirts that prime kirk got torn, an army of doomed redshirts invade this new timeline and try to prevent all those unnecessary losses of shirts, no matter what color they are. runaway threads will be cut. new seams will be made.