Author Topic: Ambassador Class  (Read 9333 times)

Offline mckinneyc

  • Screenshot Master
  • Posts: 1600
  • Cookies: 151
  • Screenshot Master
    • My DA page
Ambassador Class
« on: June 21, 2008, 08:26:31 AM »
Why do you think we've saw so few Ambassador Class ships?

They're one of the biggest classes of Federation starships and when they were introduced no doubt the most advanced and biggest ships in the fleet yet we've only ever saw them four times.

I find it hard to believe that after being the Federation's top class for around 15-20 years they'd scrap them and not keep them up to date like the older Excelsior, Miranda and Constellation classes.

Also would it not stand to reason that being the size they are that Starfleet could refit them with technology developed during the design and construction of the Galaxy and Nebula classes?

What do you guys think?

Offline MLeo

  • Retired Staff
  • Posts: 3636
  • Cookies: 833
  • Software Simian
    • the Programming Pantheon
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2008, 08:31:03 AM »
The Enterprise-C was an Ambassador class, if memory serves me right.


Maybe inherent design flaws?
Or maybe they did stop the production of Mirandas and Constellation classes and stop the Ambassador class production, but more Ambassador classes were lost?

And maybe the Mirandas and Constellation classes have been around for longer because they were either museum pieces, or training vessels?
I still can't read peoples minds, nor can I read peoples computers, even worse, I can't combine the two to read what is going wrong with your BC install...

"It was filed under 'B' for blackmail." - Morse, Inspector Morse - The dead of Jericho.

Offline JimmyB76

  • Posts: 6423
  • Cookies: 421
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2008, 09:38:15 AM »
ive always been a fan of the Ambassador Class, and i do wish it got more "air time" in the shows...

Offline mckinneyc

  • Screenshot Master
  • Posts: 1600
  • Cookies: 151
  • Screenshot Master
    • My DA page
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2008, 11:05:59 AM »
Thanks for your comments, I've been thinking that perhaps the Miranda and Excelsior class ships were quicker to build and easier to refit so therefore those designs were produced in greater numbers.

Then with the Cardassian Wars production of the more complex and larger Ambassador class was slowed or stopped altogther and smaller ships like the two older classes already mentioned and that of the New Orleans class were increased in order for Starfleet to bolster fleet numbers and by the time the Wars fizzled out the Galaxy and Nebula designs were being developed and built.

Pegasus

  • Guest
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 06:10:04 AM »
Has anyone considered that maybe it was too old and not worth a redesign (Don't throw excelsior and miranda back at me, that's why i said "WORTH" a redesign)


Offline RifleMan80

  • BC Veteran since February, 2002
  • Posts: 361
  • Cookies: 136
  • BC Machinima Bridge Commander Elder (Feb 02)
    • Rifle's Bridge Commander Machinima
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 11:56:38 PM »
Design flaws? The ship looked solid! Why didnt we see alot of the Ambassador class? However, it did make way for the Galaxy class, idont think it performed as well as it looked I think. So starfleet used verry little. The USS Gandhi, Horatio, and Zhukov were mentioned in TNG and DS9, however, the USS Enterprise-C was seen. One Ambassador was seen at Wolf 359 from the DS9 episode Emissary. Another later in TNG.
 But yea, by the mid- late 24th centure, the reason u didnt see alot of them I think was because the Ambassador was slow, and not verry well armed for a ship its class. I dont think starfleet found it plausable to Refit them. They are just under powered ships for what they should of been. The Ambassador class shows alot of promise. If i were starfleet, i would refit all and correct their problems. They would then make dangerouse battleshps. Small Brother of the Galaxy Class

A True Riker's Beard!

Offline Kirk

  • Posts: 1438
  • Cookies: 139
    • My Released Mods
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2008, 12:38:37 AM »
They would then make dangerouse battleshps. Small Brother of the Galaxy Class
Aka Nebula Class, with a weapons pod.

Offline Nighthawk

  • |______[o]_|
  • Posts: 750
  • Cookies: 18
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2008, 01:36:49 AM »
.....always wondered why the federation would scrap such a ship in favor of the ever aging excelsior.....

maybe less construction costs? easiness of refit?
ds9 would have been a lot more eye-candy with the ambassadors instead of the excelsiors


....damn plot holes....  :(

Offline RifleMan80

  • BC Veteran since February, 2002
  • Posts: 361
  • Cookies: 136
  • BC Machinima Bridge Commander Elder (Feb 02)
    • Rifle's Bridge Commander Machinima
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2008, 03:23:44 AM »
The Ambassador is the Little brother of the Galaxy man. The Nebula is the little sister.

anyway, i agree! DS9 would have been..... more interesting with Ambassadors especially with the Dominion War. But i think the Excelsior is a superior ship. Thats just me :D

A True Riker's Beard!

Offline Mark

  • Retired Administrator
  • Posts: 1930
  • Cookies: 1797
  • Site Co-Founder
    • ST Excalibur
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2008, 04:29:42 AM »
i think the canon basically goes that the ship was not as successful as the excelsior, and when the Galaxy was brought in to replace it the feeling was that the excelsior was still the better all rounder so the ambassadors took a back seat.

That's what came through to me through all the shows I've watched and books I've read

Offline Erk

  • never forget the name... Enterprise
  • Posts: 141
  • Cookies: 5
  • Enterprise: boldness or readiness in undertaking
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2008, 10:19:19 AM »
i honestly think its because they only had 1 studio model of the Ambassador class starship. There were several Miranda and Excelsior class models constructed so they had more variety open to them at less cost.

"The next appearance of the Ambassador class was as the Zhukov in "Data's Day." As noted above, the model was noticeably changed after it was rehabbed to remove the battle damage it sported as the Enterprise-C. This It would later appear in "Redemption II" as the Excalibur, appearing both as a redressed model and recycled footage, and would make its final appearance in "Emissary" as the Yamaguchi."   -Memory Alpha

http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Ambassador_class

Also, it could be that the Ambassador class was too large to film with other ships. If you think back to TNG, the Enterprise-D dwarfed the Excelsior and Miranda, making it a lot easier to film the two ships side by side (as in the pictures below)  That theory goes for the pre-CG episodes, I dont have an answer for the lack of them in the DW.

Offline ChronowerX_GT

  • ChronowerX Productions - Founder
  • Posts: 809
  • Cookies: 36
    • ChronowerX Productions
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2008, 07:03:53 PM »
When launched, the ship was most probibly difficult or expensive to build, so there were most probibly just a few built. Let's say 10 ships? Meanwhile they most probibly were able to build 2-3 Excelsiors to 1 Ambassador. So a few were most probibly built as flagships to impress friends and foe's. The Cardassian wars most probibly put the Ambassador's production on hietus since the Excelsior was quicker to build and more powerful (that is 3 Excelsiors to one Ambassador). The Excelsior was also long into production when the Ambassador was introduced so the ship yards were configured to build them. So after the war (2250's) the Nebula was introduced. At this time the Galaxy project was most probibly under way. So because of this they most probibly decided to still put the Ambassador on hietus to see how this new class of ship turned out. By the time the Galaxy was introduced, Starfleet most probibly realised that it was most probibly just as easy to build a Galaxy as it was to build an Ambassador since the Galaxy used much of the Nebula's parts (so the shipyards were configured to build the pieces, just like the Excelsior) but the parts of the Ambassador semmed to be unique to that ship. That's why we most probibly see a lot of Galaxy's in the dominion war because they had spare parts to build them quick.

Perhaps the Ambassador can be compared to the Sovereign (another ship we don't see much of) since they both appered at the time of war so it would be inefficient to build a new complicated ship when you can build loads of good, normal ships. Will the Sovvie continue production? I don't know. It's a fairly small ship (in comparason to the Ambassador, Galaxy and Nebula) so they may continue after the Dominion war, but if it follows the path of the Carassian War then it will most probibly be scrapped in favour of a new design. (Perhaps a Century Class ??? :D).

Just my interpritation of events.

But yea, by the mid- late 24th centure, the reason u didnt see alot of them I think was because the Ambassador was slow, and not verry well armed for a ship its class.

I don't think that the Ambassador was weak. It came under fire from 3 Romulan Warbirds and managed to destroy one. Again I think it was just Logical to retire them when they became badly damaged in favour of the Galaxy/Nebula class. But yes, it most probibly was slow, but they could most probibly add some engines pretty easily.


Having a smoking section in a restaurant is kinda like having a peeing section in a pool...

Offline Judge King

  • USAF Phoenix CO
  • Posts: 190
  • Cookies: 18
  • Hail to the king of battle!
    • XSGCOM Wiki
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2008, 09:31:10 PM »
Actually, the Enterprise C came under fire from 4 Romulan Warbirds and managed to destroy 2 of them after going back in time with Lt. Yar (Yesterday's Enterprise version). If one of them was named Enterprise, it must've been a success, because ever class with a ship named Enterprise is supposed to have the latest and greatest technology of the time. What i wonder is why we never saw any Ambassador Class ships in the Dominion War. If anything, the Ambassador Class would've been much stronger if refitted with the newest shields, armor, weapons, and warp drive assuming it was refitted like the Lakota.

Here are the Ambassador Class Ships that have appeared, been referenced, or assumed to exist.
-USS Ambassador NCC-10521 (assumed)
-USS Enterprise NCC-1701-C (canon)
-USS Excalibur NCC-26517 (canon)
-USS Exeter NCC-26513 (canon, but often referenced in non-canon as Ambassador Class)
-USS Yamaguchi NCC-26510 (canon)
-USS Ghandi NCC-26632 (canon)
-USS Valdemar NCC-26198 (canon)
-USS Adelphi NCC-26849 (see USS Exeter)
-USS Horatio NCC-10532 (canon)
-USS Zhukov NCC-26136 (canon)
Calvin grows up to be Frazz. The logical continuation of this is, of course, that Frazz then grows up to be Edward Norton's character from Fight Club. And thus, all four of these characters are gods.Let's go one more step. Calvin grows up to be Jeremy, who grows up to be Frazz, who grows up to be "Tyler Durden," while Suzie grows up to be Haruhi Suzumiya; since Kyon becomes The Doctor, this leads to the inescapable conclusion that after the end of Fight Club, Calvin becomes Captain Jack.

Offline Erk

  • never forget the name... Enterprise
  • Posts: 141
  • Cookies: 5
  • Enterprise: boldness or readiness in undertaking
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2008, 12:51:18 AM »
it honestly could just be that no Ambassador class ships were assigned to Admiral Ross's Fleet. We never actually saw the entire Star Fleet, just the fleet that the Defiant was assigned to. We never saw any other Defiant, Nova, Intrepid, or Sovereign class ships, but we know that more that 1 of them exist. If you think about it, during the war, other than the Akira and Steamrunners, the only NEW/Modern ships you  saw were the USS Defiant, USS Bellephrone and briefly encountered the USS Valiant. Seeing how the Defiant and Voyager are... remarkable powerful, youd think that Starfleet would have produced many more of these "smaller" ships. The Enterprise-E rescued the Defiant from the Borg... so id imagine theyd have more Sovereign class ships during this war. Face it, we only saw a small side of the war. It was pretty much just the fleet assigned to DS9.

Offline lint

  • Posts: 599
  • Cookies: 211
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2008, 01:05:52 AM »
Who's to say they didn't build more of the "Smaller" ships, i can count 3 Defiant class ships in this shot :)

Offline undedavenger

  • It's simple. I reek of awesomeness, and you don't.
  • Posts: 131
  • Cookies: 14
    • Official Star Trek Century Myspace!
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2008, 04:02:23 AM »
In reality, it was due to the fact that the Ambassador model was gigantic, and therefore not as easy to film as the Excelsior and Miranda models. (Note: The above poster was incorrect in stating that there were multiple Excelsior models. Every time you see an Excelsior class, refitted or otherwise, its the Excelsior built for Star Trek III, according to the documentaries on the TNG DVD sets. The same goes for the Miranda. It's always the Reliant with a fresh coat of paint.) We see them a lot in DS9 because the Dominion War battles were almost completely done with CGI.

In continuity, the Ambassador Class was never said to be retired. I agree with what was previously said, that there were few of them to begin with, as the Excelsior was being mass-produced and the Galaxy Project was underway virtually when the Enterprise C was lost. I think there was a line in "Yesterday's Enterprise" that due to the way the 1701-C was so outgunned, the Ambassador was deemed to be insufficient as a platform for missions which included danger. Also, the C was barely 5 years old when it was destroyed, and typically the Enterprise was always one of the initial models to roll out of the shipyard for its given class. And 15-20 years after production, the Galaxy class was launched, which indicates that the Ambassador was cancelled in favor of the increasingly promising Galaxy.

Also note that there was sort of a lull in hostile activity between 2295 and the launch of the Enterprise D. The Klingons were allies, and the Romulans withdrew from contact with the Federation after Narendra III. The Cardassian War occurred, but it has been established that a Galor-Class is no match for an Excelsior Class, much less an Ambassador. Most countries today will ususally slow production of armaments in order to save money or resources. That's why the US Air Force continued to use the F-16 as its primary aircraft for nearly two decades.

As well, just because we don't see Ambassador Class ships, does not necessarily mean they are not there. According to various episodes, Starfleet has over 800 active starships in space at a given time. We never saw nearly that many in all of the series combined. In short, its a big galaxy, and even large ships are comparatively small.
"Books are not canon, only what you see on screen. Yes, even the horrible Voyager episode where they go past warp 10 and have crazy lizard babies."

Offline ChronowerX_GT

  • ChronowerX Productions - Founder
  • Posts: 809
  • Cookies: 36
    • ChronowerX Productions
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2008, 06:35:26 AM »
(Note: The above poster was incorrect in stating that there were multiple Excelsior models. Every time you see an Excelsior class, refitted or otherwise, its the Excelsior built for Star Trek III, according to the documentaries on the TNG DVD sets. The same goes for the Miranda. It's always the Reliant with a fresh coat of paint.)

Actually there were multiple models made. The original model (NX 2000/NCC 2000) had added parts added to it to make the NCC 1701-B. The glue used to hold the extra bits on the side of the stardrive couldn't be removed without damaging the model (that's why the Lakota appeared in the same configuration). They had to build another model in the original Excelsior configuration for filming. Btw, TNG was before DS9 so, yeah, they would have used the original model since it was only for Generations it was modified. So the period between Generations (or perhaps paradise lost) and when DS9 switched to CGI was infact a different model.

I've actually come up with another reason that the Ambassador wasn't included in the dominion wars. It was a big ship with 1 engine. That = slow and unmanuverable. Against the dominion that spells trouble, especially with their bug ships. An Excelsior could most probibly dodge them and the superior fire power of the Galaxy means that it should be able to stop it in time. Also the saucer seperation of the Galaxy could most probibly save most people if they were hit. So perhaps the Ambassadors were in the reserve fleet with ships like Constitutions and Constellations. The Ambassador could most probibly hold it's own against other enemies but just not the dominions tactics. They were most probibly put into active service after the war.

Actually, the Enterprise C came under fire from 4 Romulan Warbirds and managed to destroy 2 of them after going back in time with Lt. Yar (Yesterday's Enterprise version). If one of them was named Enterprise, it must've been a success, because ever class with a ship named Enterprise is supposed to have the latest and greatest technology of the time. What i wonder is why we never saw any Ambassador Class ships in the Dominion War. If anything, the Ambassador Class would've been much stronger if refitted with the newest shields, armor, weapons, and warp drive assuming it was refitted like the Lakota.


Sorry, I stand corrected. But, it shows that the Ambassador was even stronger than I stated.

We never saw any other Defiant, Nova, Intrepid, or Sovereign class ships, but we know that more that 1 of them exist.


Defiant Class:
USS Defiant (NX 74205)
USS Defiant (NCC 74205-A)
USS Valiant (NCC 74210)
USS Sao Paulo (NCC 75633)
USS Antares (NCC 74699)
Terran Defiant

Intrepid Class:
USS Voyager (NCC 74656)
USS Bellephron (NCC 74705)
USS Intrepid (NCC 74600) On computer screen.

Nova Class:
USS Equinox (NCC 72381)
USS Rhode Island (NCC 72701)
USS Nova (NCC 73515) On computer screen.
We also see a Nova class in Azati Prime.



Having a smoking section in a restaurant is kinda like having a peeing section in a pool...

Offline Erk

  • never forget the name... Enterprise
  • Posts: 141
  • Cookies: 5
  • Enterprise: boldness or readiness in undertaking
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2008, 09:12:45 AM »
We never saw any other Defiant, Nova, Intrepid, or Sovereign class ships, but we know that more that 1 of them exist.


Defiant Class:
USS Defiant (NX 74205)
USS Defiant (NCC 74205-A)
USS Valiant (NCC 74210)
USS Sao Paulo (NCC 75633)
USS Antares (NCC 74699)
Terran Defiant

Intrepid Class:
USS Voyager (NCC 74656)
USS Bellephron (NCC 74705)
USS Intrepid (NCC 74600) On computer screen.

Nova Class:
USS Equinox (NCC 72381)
USS Rhode Island (NCC 72701)
USS Nova (NCC 73515) On computer screen.
We also see a Nova class in Azati Prime.


[/quote]

just to clarify, i meant during the Dominion War on DS9, not including Voyager, TNG, or Enterprise.

Also, if anyone has read the Dominion War books series, Book one has an Ambassador Class called the Aurora which was destroyed as the Enterprise-E attempting to rescue it. I KNOW ITS NOT CANNON TO THE SHOW, but its nice to  think that the Ambassadors were used during the war.

Offline undedavenger

  • It's simple. I reek of awesomeness, and you don't.
  • Posts: 131
  • Cookies: 14
    • Official Star Trek Century Myspace!
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2008, 11:01:37 AM »
Lukerobin, where did you get that information about a new Excelsior model being built? Not trying to be a jerk, really. I love the production stuff, and everything I've seen or read has indicated that there was only one Excelsior model used. If you can cite where you found that info, I'd appreciate it, as I'd love to read it.

I researched this a further. It seems that the Ambassador model also deteriorated while in storage after its last use. That's probably the most likely reason we never saw it, the model wasn't in good shape, and why build a new one for the few shots it would appear in?
"Books are not canon, only what you see on screen. Yes, even the horrible Voyager episode where they go past warp 10 and have crazy lizard babies."

Offline mckinneyc

  • Screenshot Master
  • Posts: 1600
  • Cookies: 151
  • Screenshot Master
    • My DA page
Re: Ambassador Class
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2008, 11:22:33 AM »
There were two Excelsior models, a second one was built for Voyager's Flashback episode and was smaller than the first model and had lit nacelles. I believe that this model was then used in DS9 in season 4 and 5 until the CGI model was created. This also explains why DS9 Excelsiors had lit nacelles. But we're getting off topic.

I would have liked to think that with loses to the Borg in both engagements and with the Dominion cold war that Starfleet did indeed upgrade the Ambassadors to the level of the Galaxy/Nebula class and the reason we've not saw any is because as said before there are only a few ships still in service. I agree that this class of ship should have had more airtime instead of using the Miranda and Oberth class all the time in TNG.