BC poly limit

[FarShot]

No, unless someone is refitting or updating a design.  I'm just saying this so you get an idea of what to shoot for before you send it off for hardpointing and conversion.

[Joe]

thats a good point, thanks.

[FarShot]

We're always in need of good modellers here at BCC, and from the way you talk, I have the impression you're already familiar with modelling, just not quite with BC.  So it's anything I can do to help. ;)

[King Class Scout]

hmm...he's got a point mentioning CAD (which i trained on in the early ninties as part of my Drafting teaching).  the models are actually on the primitive end, as the game was originally developed in the late 90's.  things have come a very long way since this game was developed, in both technology and appearance tolerance.

by the way, if you want to see scary, take a look at the bone-stock BC's models.  only four or so survive in today's modding scene.  most of the others have been replaced or redone with higher quality models.

the survivng stockers are
Ferengi Marauder
Cardassian Hybrid
small federation stations
small cardassian stations

a little side note is that the character models have never been tweaked.  the game engine refuses to recognise character models from a higher version than the one used to create the game with.  sets, such as the bridges, also have to be made using the older versions of the MAX program they were created with in order to be used.  people don't want to mess with the character models, however.

a lot of Ideas and Modders have migrated over to the Excalibur project, a scratch rebuild of the game engine and so forth to use modern higher resolution and tighter polygon versions.  since the original game engine and so forth has NEVER been released to the public for reapir, people are simply starting over.  the Bridge Commander game engine has a horrendous memory-leak problem that can't be legally fixed.

[Joe]

a little side note is that the character models have never been tweaked.  the game engine refuses to recognise character models from a higher version than the one used to create the game with.

That's a bummer. I would love to create more realistic bridge officers with different uniform options and species.

[King Class Scout]

you'd have to  figure out how to attach revised bodies to the modeling dummies, figure out how to get the head and hand textures to make sense, etc.  something about the character animations make it hard (but at least someone could fix the hands!)

if you take a shot, i think, like the Bridges, they need Max 3.2

believe me, some of us would like to make a few body tweaks for personal use.  best I can do is some costume tweaking.

[Joe]

What about new characters from scratch? The you wouldn't have to worry about conforming things to the existing character. New rigs with newly painted weights eliminates the texture issues.

[King Class Scout]

take a look at Lurok's take on the DS9 ops.  it shows the base pose skeleton in shots.  again, the game engine will CRASH with any bits newer than what it was created with back in 1999-2000.

if guys like Sovereign and Defiant would chime in here (they're the master scripters around here), they'd give you a better idea of how much of a pain in the butt it is to work with the characters, let alone the character models.

[Flowrellik]

yeah about that, I'm not sure if I exported this right, since I've been doing it the Gmax way.
I tried to export my Crossfield class mesh into BC, and so far it works like a charm until

This only happens with the saucer and god forbid if you lop off a nacelle and the whole thing goes explosion.
This does not make any logical sense to me as to why this is happening, because I have converted much higher resolution meshes I made without problems or worry.

[Morgan]

Have you tried deleting the VOX.nif files just to see if they're the problem?

[Flowrellik]

I have and that's not the issue.
So far the only explanation I can come up with is that the model I made is too high poly.

[vonfrank]

yeah about that, I'm not sure if I exported this right, since I've been doing it the Gmax way.
I tried to export my Crossfield class mesh into BC, and so far it works like a charm until

This only happens with the saucer and god forbid if you lop off a nacelle and the whole thing goes explosion.
This does not make any logical sense to me as to why this is happening, because I have converted much higher resolution meshes I made without problems or worry.

This is not necessarily a high poly issue. Unless your model is over 100k polys, BC will still load it (although keeping your model to less than 25k is better because it is far less laggy on the older game engine).

This might be the same mysterious 'missing poly' issue that I have had with a few models I've been trying to convert. Both Gmax and Nifskope show the model completely intact, but in-game the ship is missing certain parts.

Your problem seems to look similar to mine, although I'm not completely sure TBH. A more experienced 3D modeler than me might be able to shed more light on this.

[Flowrellik]

In my case, the model runs perfect so long as not a single photon blast or something that can make a decent sized hole decides to make a dent on her, then the faces disappear.
Idk what to do here. I tried cleaning the mesh, decimating it, even removing unnecessary parts....nothing works...

[King Class Scout]

I've asked to test this myself since I have an older build, scripts, and modeling programs.  having the identical problems to Ported ships is an eyebrow raiser.

unfortunately, around here, this former texturer and tweaker is LITERALLY the 'senior modeler', now.

[Flowrellik]

Well, after a bit of tweaking and experimentation, I came to the conclusion that the standard Disco version of the Crossfield class may perfom rather....fragile for Bridge commander. I have made sure the model is water tight, strength and radius mods for damage were implemented and I've done a cross experiment with ANOTHER version of the Crossfield, one that is more TOS like. Turns out the TOS Discovery performs better because the saucer has a type of grill connecting it all together, where as the Discovery version has just clamps connecting two saucers together.
All of the mesh "vox problems" I have is with the saucer section: a problem solved in the Refit but still there for Discovery. Times like this I wish Baz1701 were still around..
This is the standard (yes no textures were made yet but the models are perfectly UV'd for experimentation)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/371722416436674561/503343125339570196/unknown.png
Atm I came to one final conclusion: a final part that I have not fully looked after.
This is the Refit.

[Adonis]

Play around with the damage radius, the default 1.0 is waaay to big for things to look reallistic ;)

[Elijah]

From testing I did several months ago here are some observations I made about how models work in BC and some of their limitations.

1: It appears that each element of a model (each section of it) has a limit of approximately 97,821 triangles

2: Elements of a model can be combined (like the nacelles on the stock galaxy class are their own element) to have a total of around approximately 166,658 triangles

3: The game appears to have an extremely high limit on the total amount of triangles it can display, a ship that has the max 166,658 triangles can have many multiples of it loaded on screen without issue (for my test I had a total of 10,666,112‬ triangles on screen)

4: The game has a hard time when vertices too near one another, on high detail models this will cause faces to not appear in game.


Here is 27 stock galaxy models compressed into one model element, 97,821 triangles


Here is 81 stock galaxy models compressed into one model element, 293,463 triangles. Notice how the nacelles have vanished off of 2/3rds of the ships, they are being culled due to limitations.


Here is many hundreds of stock galaxy models that were combined into groups of around 30 (I don't remember). Total onscreen triangle count is 10,666,112.


Example of a high triangle count model that has vertices too near one another.

[JimmyB76]

Very useful and awesome info!! 

[Haxxor1337]

Very useful and awesome info!! 

Yea, thats right!