Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC General => Topic started by: DJ Curtis on October 23, 2007, 05:34:04 PM
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I need to vent a bit.
I've pretty much fuc*ing had it with the people on the interwebz. It seems that there are a lot of people who play ST:Legacy who are converting and distributing my work for a game that I've made very clear, and very public, that I don't want them to be. When I restate my position, they call me selfish.
Fu*k 'em.
From now on, I'm not gonna publicly release any more ships. If people want my work, they'll have to contact me privately and request it. I'm tired of people who simply can not seem to respect a single, simple request from a modder who has put hundreds of hours into producing high quality products. No doubt a lot of you guys feel my pain.
Fu*k 'em. Whose with me? :arms:
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*sets up torrent of Curtis's shipz*
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*sets up torrent of Curtis's shipz*
NOT clever mate :roll:
Curtis I am with you, these people are just ignorant and totally beyond contempt.
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you cant really blame the legacyfiles staff member who put them on the site... it is likely they didnt know...
however, whoever ported them without permission - that person/people should be banned from the FF netwrok sites, IMO...
it should be brought to the FF admins...
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*sets up torrent of Curtis's shipz*
?.?
not funny
it should be brought to the FF admins...
heh, lucky you, knowing some folks in the high ranks.....
DJ, if you have a readme file where it says you don't allow them to port it to legacy, then go pursue them with all right. you warned, they didn't hear, well... they're fuc*ed up.
I agree with Jimmy, maybe the admin of LegacyFiles didn't know, but who converted it did, so unless the file is listed under "unknown/annonymous", GO SMACK HIM DOWN!!!! :D
if you want, ask Dante on how to deal with copyright violations. he knows long the way of it lol
EDIT: maybe, instead of "README", we should name the file "DON'T README. NO, SERIOUSLY, DON'T" maybe so they might be tempted to lurk in.
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already noticed this morning, when I saw the Ent-F on PoTD.
Curtis I'm with you!
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i agree with u DJ. Ill look into this with my Legacy connections
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You know... takes a good lot to get my hubby so agitated. I really don't understand why someone would take it upon themselves to be such a huge jerk about the whole thing.
If they like his ship so very much, maybe they should get off their butt and learn to mod just as well. I don't understand why they feel it is owed to them to have the ship in legacy or why he should submit to their wants for that matter when he does it for his own enjoyment. I checked the POTD thread that caused this rumbling, and I can't believe how arrogant some of the people are.
"Oh my goodness! DJ Curtis doesn't like Legacy and he doesn't want us to use HIS mod in it! How horrible!" Good grief. My only consolation is that those nerds are probably never going to get any and won't spread their stupid seed any further.
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Oh wow. I just looked and sure enough.
Yes, I can understand. It's simply going against the creator of the mod's (of any kind) wishes.
Lol, you funny Marie. :funny
Let me know what I can do to help. I stand by your decision. :D
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Here here. It's been said countless times that DJ Curtis doesn't want his ships ported to Legacy, and if they do it should remain for private use. Yes that means PRIVATE, as in "Your eyes only". I think the guy that made the screenshot did wrong by submitting the pic (likely knowing the content was under dispute), and I also think the LegacyFiles admin was in the wrong for approving the pic, without first checking that it's ok to post said pic (due to disputed content in the pic).
It's really not that hard at all for people to read. I'm sure most of you learnt that while in elementary school. However it's unfortunate that so many people choose NOT to read.
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Well, maybe I'm mistaken- but after a rather exhaustive search I found nothing of DJ's on Legacy Files.
Yay?
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No, I don't think it has been. (Sorry Jimmy, I wasn't able to post this earlier, I didn't mean to give that impression)
What was really making me angry was that immediately after I wrote that I didn't want the ship distributed, some idiot was asking the author of the POTD to email him the ship. How ridiculous is that?
I had to deal with this issue a while back with another of my ships on the official Legacy forums, and I took a lot of flak for my position.
I just don't think that I should have to, or that any other modder should. The issue isn't my boycott of Legacy, that's a personal thing. The real issue is the that people some people are unwilling to show respect for the wishes of the mod creator. Not all, but some.
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it kinda sucks, because no matter what you do there will always be a small minority of Legacy players who will do crap like this, They port it for personal use, then they send it to there friends and they send it to there friends and so on,
Im 100% on DJ's side,
But, when you have a game that has about as much playability and entertainment value as Solitaire you can understand why they would want DJ's awesome ships in it, (but thats still no excuse)
I think the best way to prevent this kind of thing is to discuss this with the admins at legacy files and/or filefront, so nothing happens like this again,
Well not through the official channels anyway..
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No, I don't think it has been. (Sorry Jimmy, I wasn't able to post this earlier, I didn't mean to give that impression)
What was really making me angry was that immediately after I wrote that I didn't want the ship distributed, some idiot was asking the author of the POTD to email him the ship. How ridiculous is that?
I had to deal with this issue a while back with another of my ships on the official Legacy forums, and I took a lot of flak for my position.
I just don't think that I should have to, or that any other modder should. The issue isn't my boycott of Legacy, that's a personal thing. The real issue is the that people some people are unwilling to show respect for the wishes of the mod creator. Not all, but some.
Whatever your choice Curtis this entire community bare the obligatory morons, is behind you 100% you've brought some of the finest models to STBC and set new landmarks for quality, and I hope you keep on bringing such models to STBC and set the boundaries higher :D
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ST:Legacy, that 'tarded lil step-cousin of BC.
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I think it's kinda funny that "IKS Yo Mama", the admin at LegacyFiles gave DJ Curtis a warning due to one of his comments. All DJ said was that he was boycotting the game, and wished others would too.
If you would like to discuss this further in an appropriate manner then please do so without trying to initiate a boycott on Legacy by the community. Comments like that are not helpful and are certainly not appreciated.
Personally, I think IKS needs to learn a thing or two about the communities that came before the "so called" Legacy community, prior to defending all the Legacy fans and stomping on the guys who made MOST of the new content that is currently available for Legacy. I'm not speaking specifically of DJ Curtis now, but all modders from BC who have contributed in one way or another to Legacy, simply by allowing their models to be used in the game. It's like the Legacy people want to "bite the hand that feeds them" in this matter.
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I totally agree with Darkthunder,
Out of all the big mods i have seen for Legacy (Ultimate Universe etc) and the single ship releases posted on legacy files, i reckon its safe to say that 90% of them are ported from armada 2 or BC, and even the armada 2 ports were originally from BC anyway.
I found this especially amusing when i have seen a lot of threads on certain Legacy related forums (which i wont mention) commenting on how BC is outdated, old and pretty much just all together a piece of rubbish and in a couple of threads people actually rubbishing this community and the people who use these exact boards and this site, i wont repeat what was said because i feel some of the language would not be suitable to post on here,
Although i found it amusing i also found it really disrespectful, if it was'nt for BC and its talented modders Legacy would'nt have the ships it has today, :wink:
The actions and comments of certain members in the Legacy community is something i have never witnessed before in any other of the Star Trek FileFront gaming communities (Armada, Elite Force, SFC, BC,) Everyone seemed to get along and respected each others Opinions and Mods, But ever since Legacy made its debut it feels like all of that has gone out the window.
I know, there are some real nice and decent people in the Legacy community, but After Reading the last couple nights certain Threads on Legacy forums Bad mouthing BC, Its community and its modders and NOW the issue with DJ's Century class i cant help to think where all this is coming from, Alot of modders have been asked if there ships can be ported to other games before and alot of them did'nt want them ported, and everyone respected that and did'nt bitch and complain, and they never did what was done with the POTD of the Enterprise F, But certain members of the legacy community seem to be totally void of these aspects.
Its almost seems to me like there is a little competition between BC and Legacy, Personally im not a Legacy Fan but both games have there upsides and downsides like everything else in life, And i think people have over reacted about DJ's decision not to allow his ships to be ported to Legacy, You might not agree with him, You might not understand his decision, And you might even think he is being childish and immature BUT it does'nt matter what you think, it is his choice and he has every right to do whatever the hell he wants with his creations/mods/ships or anything else he releases because its his property,
So my advice to certain people in the Legacy community is, Pull your heads out of your arse and stop bagging BC and its community, If you cant have the ships you want in legacy get over it, otherwise the talented modders we have will stop releasing ships and you will run out of things to download off of BC files to use in your "game".
Sorry for this excessive rant but this has slowly been getting on my nerves and building up, No doubt i will probably cop some slack from this but IMHO certain things i have witnessed in the past week or so are not acceptable by any standard.
This is not directed at the Legacy community, Like i said, there are some really decent/friendly modders and players over there, This is directed at the people who insult, disrespect and flat out attack BCC, BC members, The Game and There Mods on a certain non-official legacy forum (you know who you are).
end of rant.
p.s I apologize if this post rubs anyone up the wrong way, it was not my intention..
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Very good post lint. Although a bit more splitting up with punctuations and line breaks wouldn't hurt next time :P
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DJ I am with you with the lack of respect some people have these days, I even checked to see if the mantis was converted but thankfully it wasn't.
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(Sorry Jimmy, I wasn't able to post this earlier, I didn't mean to give that impression)
ooooh ok i see how you mean... i misunderstood, thinking you meant people were uploading your work to legacyfiles...
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DJ I am with you with the lack of respect some people have these days, I even checked to see if the mantis was converted but thankfully it wasn't.
Not yet anyway..
I reckon we should start a thread or make a text document and all the BC modders who dont want there stuff ported to legacy should add there name to it, or if its a text document, message the person who creates the document so they can put your name down, and after a week or so or when everyone who wants to boycott legacy has submitted there name we pass that list onto the admins at legacy files. and it will be there responsibility to check the original mod credits in the read me,
Its pretty clear that certain people over at legacy files dont have the same moral's or respect and have a disregard for other peoples hard work, its just a matter of time someone submits a mod without permission or submits one with the knowledge that the author does not want it ported.
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I can totally understand this.
I searched the Potd on legacyfiles and found your comment:
#17 - A few things - Posted by: DJ_Curtis (Member) on 10-23-2007 at 08:02
Edit
If you would like to discuss this further in an appropriate manner then please do so without trying to initiate a boycott on Legacy by the community. Comments like that are not helpful and are certainly not appreciated.
Consider yourself warned
- IKS
Lol, you were warned?
sorry, but wtf?!
They didn't have your permission and your not allowed to be angry?? oO
If this is so, I would talk with this mod of legacyfiles.
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DJ I am with you with the lack of respect some people have these days, I even checked to see if the mantis was converted but thankfully it wasn't.
Not yet anyway..
I reckon we should start a thread or make a text document and all the BC modders who dont want there stuff ported to legacy should add there name to it, or if its a text document, message the person who creates the document so they can put your name down, and after a week or so or when everyone who wants to boycott legacy has submitted there name we pass that list onto the admins at legacy files. and it will be there responsibility to check the original mod credits in the read me,
Its pretty clear that certain people over at legacy files dont have the same moral's or respect and have a disregard for other peoples hard work, its just a matter of time someone submits a mod without permission or submits one with the knowledge that the author does not want it ported.
This is a good idea. I was about to suggest something similar. I second this.
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hmm, okay it's a good idea indeed, but I think also the legacyfiles staff knows that DJ doesn't want any of his ships ported.
I think not only the BV players know this fact.
correct me if I'm wrong
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I'm completely with you DJ!
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so what do you guys reckon, i think the best and easiest way is to post a topic in this forum (BC General) and sticky it,
And make it clear what it is for and thats its not for conversation,
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It is common sense. If someone doesn't want their ships ported to another game, it is the original mod/ship authors' permission to give the okay. DJ_Curtis has every right to protect his mods from other people. The people who become members on Filefront will do whatever it takes to get what they want. There should be more responsible people to check these things. Do people ever get punished?
That is why I always PM/email the original author for his or her permission before changing someone else's mod. DJ has every right to be mad.
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Why not ask for the picture to be removed from the potd archive?
I would suggest chatting with the administrator and ask him to post a news item or such, about people who need to respect the wishes of people who make the mods for any game.
And suggest that that user be banned because he/she knew full well that the ships wasn't to be ported to legacy as per the post, "i hoped that you will change you mind when you saw this pic" - Noci3
And IKS_YO_MAMA stated that "Check out this thread about Permissions with regards to a mod's validity... Stealing is wrong, and releasing uncredited work is stealing.. And banning will be immeadiate if the case against you is strong enough"
I say, take him up on his word. In his own words, "I will issue bans. Please don't tempt me into action so quickly." - IKS_YO_MAMA
Let him ban Noci3.
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Thank you jimmy for making me read a nice long thread :P (I'm only a file poster on the bcfiles site ;))
I'm under the impression that none of these files have actually been added to legacy files as of yet? (I couldn't find any), although i'll keep an eye out on that site to make sure that none appear (or if they do they will be taken down as soon as i get a chance). Also I'm assuming that its ok for them to convert it if its for personal use? but what about the screenshot in the POTD would you like me to remove that?
Danny - Filefront Network Admin
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My concern wasn't even so much about the POTD, it's just a picture, after all. My concern is really that the mod is possibly being circulated in a "black market", if you will. There's nothing anyone can do about that, so, while it bugs me, it's not worth lighting fires over.
The comment board was being used in such a way that at least one person made an open request to have the ship emailed to him. That's what bothered me. When I tried to explain why I didn't want the ship transmitted (ie. boycott), the MOD remarked that I was out of line.
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The way i see it is.
there are over 1000 views of it and the chances of atleast one person seeing that, getting the idea, downloading it, porting it and possibly circulating it increase by a massive amount.
So in a way the damage is already done.
And i really would'nt be surprised if it was already in a "black market" circulation as DJ mentions
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Its pretty clear that certain people over at legacy files dont have the same moral's or respect and have a disregard for other peoples hard work, its just a matter of time someone submits a mod without permission or submits one with the knowledge that the author does not want it ported.
For me legacy seems to be the single biggest violator in terms of BC Modders wishes, I've seen hundreds of BC ships on that site which I've wondered if they got the original creators permission
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Hell, i've even been banned from a popular Legacy forum because I was concerned that BC ships were being ported without permission :P
I think the guys in the Legacy community need to get a strong wake-up call and be notified that it's not ok to arbitrarily take content from other games, and stick into Legacy without first checking if it's ok to do so from the original authors. I.e it should be done BEFORE porting the ship in question into the game, not after it's been done.
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Im with ya all they way DJ, I can't believe that someone would do something like this, shame to see where some modding communities are going.. can;t even make their own stuff
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You realize of course that If an I stress If we manage to stem the flow of Ported ships, the Legacy guys are going to turn around and badmouth the BC Guys "US" claiming that we are hording the models and preventing legacy from growing (If thats actually Possible)
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I for one will never allow or give permission to port anything i release into Legacy,
just out of principal after recent events. Amongst the numerous other reasons.
Even if you KNOW the original author of a mod allows modifications you still ask, its the right thing todo.
Legacy wont grow much beyond what it has,
yeah, you have different game modes, different ships and maps, but in the end its still the same dull game play,
Legacy community members may have digs at BC, but in the end the fact of the matter is...
atleast our ships can go in reverse....
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Headline: "Irritated Wife Snoops Through the Interwebz, Finds More Stupidity."
http://chrisjonesgaming.net/forum/index.php?topic=2146.0 (http://chrisjonesgaming.net/forum/index.php?topic=2146.0)
On the flip side though, the husband is mentioned in Wikipedia. Which in our community of geeks, is the equivalent of being in People magazine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Bridge_Commander#Modding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Bridge_Commander#Modding)
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:shock:
In dis situation, we've got a d00d here whos showing off the Ent-F in the Legacy community (but is making every1 drool over it, but I don't think hes intending to release it, or IS HE?).....Me thinks DJ wants to issue death sentences now...
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Wow, I just posted something there. I didn't say anything cruel, I just asked the guy who ported it to legacy to read the readme again because he missed some important info.
I hope I'm not stepping over any line.
Chris Jones asked me some time ago about porting the drydocks to Legacy. It isn't there yet but with what's going on, I'm having second thoughts.
I never played Legacy and I won't have any bad thoughts about it until I try it out for myself.
What do you think?
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Wow, I just posted something there. I didn't say anything cruel, I just asked the guy who ported it to legacy to read the readme again because he missed some important info.
I hope I'm not stepping over any line.
Chris Jones asked me some time ago about porting the drydocks to Legacy. It isn't there yet but with what's going on, I'm having second thoughts.
I never played Legacy and I won't have any bad thoughts about it until I try it out for myself.
What do you think?
I had a good laugh just now. After reading the post you made at the UU forums (I'm banned from posting there, but I can still read the posts). After your comment about that they should read the readme that came with the ship, someone gave you a negative karma (total atm is -1). Guess somebody over there took offense to what you said :P
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You know, I did say that I don't mind if people port it for their private use... because I can't control that.
But private use means PRIVATE, not displayed for the world to see.
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I think something should be noted in the legal aspect of this situation. As I am somewhat knowledgeable in the area of copyright law (insomuch as I've been tested on it a few times and got perfect scores), DJ's file is subject to "fair dealing" whereby persons can use it for individual use, HOWEVER, certain provisions apply....
For starters, Canadian copyright law is automatic once a piece of work has been created. As the work was created in Canada, International treaties will uphold the Canadian copyright law despite which region the file is used or viewed from.
DJ has noted in the readme of the file that "Do not distribute modified versions of these files without attaining permission from the
author. This includes mesh changes, textures, HP's, conversions, and any other modifications. To request permission, please contact me via PM at BCC."
Under its "fair dealing" provisions, the Copyright Act does allow individuals or organizations to use original works without such use being considered an infringement: criticism and review, news reporting, and private study or research (section 29). The Act also exempts certain categories of users, specifically non-profit educational institutions (section 29.4). Note that this does not cover publicaly projected images. This is the same reason why poster prints of artistic works still need to ask permission to the owner (and also pay the owner to distribute those prints for that matter).
The law of copyright also applies to the Internet, and so individual works found there are protected: using Internet text or graphics without the permission of the copyright holder, for instance, is an infringement of copyright law.
Now of course this makes me all sound like an anal hag. But given that the people who've decided to infringe on the fair dealing provisions act like bratty little kids who have an undeserved sense of entitlement - I don't give a ----.
And given what I briefly read on that other forum, I'd hardly worry about the karma. Again, egocentric brats at work. "Daddy is being mean! He won't let me have a pony! Wahwahwah." My two year old has more respect. Maybe one day their balls will drop and they'll get a clue.
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this might sound childish, but it's intentional lol
for all the whining modders: "nyah, nyah, I play BC and I can mod the shii-iiip nyah, nyah"
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You know iam sick of cpt jon. He either complains or he does stupid things like this. Dj iam 100% behind you. When you make a brilliant and gorgeous mod like the century class you dont want it falling into the wrong hands or being realeased with out your say so and some one else getting the credit. I was sad to see the POTD with enterprise f in it, not just because it is being used in an inferiour game, but also its gonig against all that you have said. And because of what marie has pulled up from chrisjonesgaming forum cpt jon should be banned from bcc IMO
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You know, I kind of agree with the above. Someone should open up a Texas-sized can of Ban-Hammer with a side order of fries, unless there's some sincere apologies and significant reparations made. Such actions might include immediately pulling the Ent-F off of chrisjonesgaming, for instance.
I'm hoping the powers that be don't feel I'm overstepping too much- but seriously, are we going to uphold standards and enforce what is right for the BC community, or aren't we?
:raven
Anyway, my displeasure is now known, and I'm spent. Hash it out amongst yourselves, mod-gods.
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I'd like to quote one of the more known modders from the UU forums in this statement:
If you're referring to the Legacy-boycotting by the original modeller, this ship was ported by Capt. Jon for his own personal use, no one elses, for anyone on this forum or for any mod, so there isn't a problem.
Jc2006 acknowledges that Capt. Jon ported the ship for personal use, however he kind of missed out on something: It's no longer personal, when you post a public image of it.
Yea so calm down man.... dont make me bring her against you! hehe j/k :D just dont end up like Darkthunder did.... :(
And I was banned from their forums because I stated my opinions on a few things, and I was too concerned (as it turns out) about possible copyright infringements and the use of ships from Bridge Commander without obtaining proper permissions.
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Hey darkthunder. There's a chance I'll be joining you in "banned" heaven.
If this is the mentality ("Because I can") that I will be getting into (with the drydocks), then I don't want any part of it.
I'll be happy if this situation can be resolved.
I plan to email Chris Jones and apprising him of the situation.
Not to ban, but send a fair warning. If they do not comply, then they are disrespecting him as well.
We'll see what happens.
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folks correct me if I do say anything blatantly wrong:
basically legacy modding is a tiny fraction of good modellers and a huge pile of whiny kids who, because the lack the skilsl to build their own ships (the whiny kids, that is), have to port BC ships by the dozen to make that defunct piece of software, that is legacy (yes, I played it), at least abit playable.
sry, but that is pathetic. I'm with ya DJ.
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The people over at legacy seem to have a superior attitude complex going on,
I mean, DarkThunder getting banned because he was asking about the possibility of a copyright infringement?
That is total BS!,
its not like he went in there acting like an arse and flaming people over it,
Cordanilus-
Personally i think your drydocks are freakin awesome, But i would'nt give the Legacy community the pleasure of having them in game,
The recent actions of the legacy communtiy lately make me believe they dont deserve ANY of the mods from BC.
And with the issues with DJ's Century Class just does'nt show disrespect to him, It shows disrespect to ANYONE who has released a mod for BC,
if they are willing to do this to one of the best modders that has EVER graced the BC Community im sure they would'nt have a problem doing this to anyone else that releases a good ship.
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Well, he locked the thread after my last post.
At least there'll be no more of that, for now. Hey, here's some good news...I didn't get banned (yet). :D
Edit:
I had a chat with Jc2006 further about the situation. He has apologized for over-reacting to my comments but you have to remember...He is a moderator of that site and one of the jobs is to keep the peace. I'm sure you can agree with that.
But here's the thing, I've been told that others were complaining about Legacy and claiming that they know certain modders and has been found to be untrue. Flaming seems to happen a lot over there and they tend to be on "High Alert" (My words) quite often.
I have gotten my point across about the rights of modders.
If upon the next time in which you see your mod presented in a fashion you don't like or authorized (depending on your readme.txt info, whether you give permission, open policy, etc...), you can contact one of the moderators to have it removed.
I guess it pays to know the guy at the top, lol.
On a side note:
LS Marie, can you send me some links or info about the ( "fair dealing" provisions, the Copyright Act ). I would like to read this further and get a better understanding of it. I can read it literally and this helps weed out all the loop holes it may contain. It'll help me better prepare in case I need it. Thanks.
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Certainly:
Canadian Copyright Act: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html (http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html)
Canadian Intellectual Property Office: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/copy_gd_protect-e.html (http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/copy_gd_protect-e.html)
Creative Commons: http://www.creativecommons.ca/index.php?p=cacopyright (http://www.creativecommons.ca/index.php?p=cacopyright)
Ugly website, but has some myths about copyright explained (Canadian based again): http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html (http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html)
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Thanks.
I'd prefer canadian stuff anyway. Mainly because I live in Canada too, lol.
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I'm glad us BC people are keeping it civil voicing their opinions hell if we posted this at STG it will most certainly get deleted. Capt Jon in my opinion is a troublemaker likes to start *@#$ (insert curse). Its best we ignore his posts, which he has done already. The only modding team i would trust is TLG with ports from BC. I am involved with them with getting port permissions as some my know as i sent PMs a while ago. As a BC modder myself i can understand this hell i even asked DJ about porting his beauties last month and he said no and TLG WILL abide by his wishes. There are some respectful Legacy modders out there but few and far between.
Thats my 2 cents for now :lol:
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yeah,
im actually kind of proud of how we (the BCC Community) have dealt with this issue, i personally think if the shoe was on the other foot (us porting things from legacy without permission) the reaction would be quite different,
So well done to everyone for acting in a mature manner!, it re-enforces my opinion that the BC modding community is one of the best if not THE best around..
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he might be a moderator, but to react like that..for something that small...hmm
I agree, TLG is good and respectfull.
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Update, I have talked to Chris Jones through PM in his forums. I have told him about the situation and mentioned about the rights of modellers. It is to my belief that he understands this clearly and has deleted the thread with all the arguing. (He wasn't too happy about Jc2006's comments)
A new thread was made in it's place (from what I can see) and includes a note to the moderators about these rights and wishes of modellers. It has Capt. Jon's port of the Enterprise F pictures on it and will remain so unless DJ Curtis decides that they be removed. In which case, the moderators must abide by that wish and remove them.
I have acheived what I set out to do there. They also took off one of the -1 karma's so I have -1 in total. I guess you can call that my trophy, lol.
About IKS_YO_MAMA...I'm not sure what I plan to do about that yet. I may just chat with this person about the rights of modellers and they should put in either a news item or some kind of post about the rights of modellers no matter if it's in a game or not.
We'll see. :D
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Cordanilus,
Its good to see you have made some progress!, well done!
I tip my hat too you! :D
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As much as I hate to say it, if anything can kill the Star Trek gaming community, it's mod piracy. While always a concern, it's been my personal observation that it's a stupid problem that has nonetheless gotten really out of hand as of late; unauthorized ports to Armada and especially Legacy frayed nerves in the Dnyaverse forums a few months ago, and one modeller was a pin's width from canning public releases as well. I'm already not a huge fan of bashers and porters like Cpt. Jon because they don't seem particularly keen on ensuring that the work they modify is thoroughly credited to the original author. After enough of these guys get into a community, hell almost, always breaks loose because newer members take the half-assed example people like him set to heart with regard to how to do business. . .
I doubt I've added anything new, still, it's tiring to see this nonsense spread from board to board.
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nah, its always good to hear everyones opinion,
i think the day will come when modders will set up an fserve or private forum and just circulate there releases between each other because of people who dont respect there wishes..
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Hello I am IKS Yo Mama.
I felt I needed to explain things a bit and in doing so I will give you my honest reply to Cordanilus' e-mail which I gave him/her this morning. here it is
I totally agree with what you have said however a picture of the day which a member uploads that contains a model that they use privately is really not against rules. DJ_Curtis was worried about the mod being released and if it were to be released it would not have been hosted without DJ_Curtis' permission. However, I do agree that posting a picture of a ?private? mod can be a prelude to release, which is how at times we know what to expect.
If Noci3 attempts to release this mod I will not allow it on the site and will suspend his mods on the site until he publicly apologizes for doing so and gives a guarantee that he will not do it again.
I don?t know where a ship comes from in a PotD, it is impossible to know at times.
"What I want to address is DJ Curtis has every right to be upset when his wishes are violated and the moderators of this site do nothing about it."
Yes he has every right to be upset. We have done "nothing" about it because there is nothing to do about it. It's only a screenshot, it doesn't go against the rules, it might be bad tack from the picture taker but it is not against rules, a fact pointed out by Danny, a FF Network Admin on a BC Central forum thread.
We have tried to deter this type of mod theft http://legacy.filefront.com/info/Permissions
If I was DJ_Curtis I would be pissed off too but I am trying to be the guy in the middle and you know how at times that means some will see you as the bad guy, especially in a fractured community that is Legacy. So if you see me as a bad guy then I apologies for giving out the wrong impression, I don?t wish to make enemies and I only wish to give something back to Star Trek for what it has given me.
I will post a news item with something to the effect what you have suggested as I think it is a genuinely good idea. However, personally I am disappointed by this discussion on your BC Central forums, especially some personal attacks against my character
http://bc-central.net/forums/index.php/topic,2089.0.html
I am deeply disheartened and distressed by some of the comments, as I do have a lot of respect for the Bridge Commander Community; obviously it seems the sentiment is not reciprocated.
None of you actually know me personally and I have only the interests of protecting the integrity of all star trek communities at hand. I have stopped several ported-BC mods being hosted on Legacy before because I do refer to the original mod to see if the author gives permission to release them freely in their readme.
I do play Bridge Commander and I used to play it online a lot. I still download mods and use them in BC so I do have respect for the people who put time into keeping BC going.
Personally, I don?t like the fact that a lot of Legacy?s mods are BC ports but since the game was shunned by many modders it came to be the bastard child of Star Trek games that no one wants to acknowledge, which is why the rest of the star trek gaming communities are highly negative and abrasive towards it. The fact that Legacy was not widely accepted has only left new modders to mod it. New modders don?t know how to create new ships so they port them from BC, which is a shame because it doesn?t mean proper growth. Some have created new ships such as the Iris, Wombat, LongIsland, LaFayette, Delta, Luna and Devil Ray ships but not everyone has the knowledge to do so.
Anytime we get a BC port we always make reference to the fact that it is a BC ship and we always make reference to the original author, because it is respectful ? example of this is here http://legacy.filefront.com/file/NX_Nebula;83052 and here http://legacy.filefront.com/file/Victory_Class;81925 and here http://legacy.filefront.com/file/CR_Nebula;83051
So it is unfair to say that we don?t acknowledge the original authors and that Legacy is openly stealing mods from BC. Some are porting from BC but when they do the original is always referenced.
I will take you up on your offer and I will try to put out the bushfires from this. Hopefully this scenario will not happen again and I hope this does not affect your opinion of Legacy Files or the majority of its community in a bad way.
Kind Regards
Brian Hourigan (aka IKS)
That is my honest reply.
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hey brian, cool you decided to drop by here.
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Hello I am IKS Yo Mama.
I felt I needed to explain things a bit and in doing so I will give you my honest reply to Cordanilus' e-mail which I gave him/her this morning. here it is
I totally agree with what you have said however a picture of the day which a member uploads that contains a model that they use privately is really not against rules. DJ_Curtis was worried about the mod being released and if it were to be released it would not have been hosted without DJ_Curtis' permission. However, I do agree that posting a picture of a ?private? mod can be a prelude to release, which is how at times we know what to expect.
If Noci3 attempts to release this mod I will not allow it on the site and will suspend his mods on the site until he publicly apologizes for doing so and gives a guarantee that he will not do it again.
I don?t know where a ship comes from in a PotD, it is impossible to know at times.
"What I want to address is DJ Curtis has every right to be upset when his wishes are violated and the moderators of this site do nothing about it."
Yes he has every right to be upset. We have done "nothing" about it because there is nothing to do about it. It's only a screenshot, it doesn't go against the rules, it might be bad tack from the picture taker but it is not against rules, a fact pointed out by Danny, a FF Network Admin on a BC Central forum thread.
We have tried to deter this type of mod theft http://legacy.filefront.com/info/Permissions
If I was DJ_Curtis I would be pissed off too but I am trying to be the guy in the middle and you know how at times that means some will see you as the bad guy, especially in a fractured community that is Legacy. So if you see me as a bad guy then I apologies for giving out the wrong impression, I don?t wish to make enemies and I only wish to give something back to Star Trek for what it has given me.
I will post a news item with something to the effect what you have suggested as I think it is a genuinely good idea. However, personally I am disappointed by this discussion on your BC Central forums, especially some personal attacks against my character
http://bc-central.net/forums/index.php/topic,2089.0.html
I am deeply disheartened and distressed by some of the comments, as I do have a lot of respect for the Bridge Commander Community; obviously it seems the sentiment is not reciprocated.
None of you actually know me personally and I have only the interests of protecting the integrity of all star trek communities at hand. I have stopped several ported-BC mods being hosted on Legacy before because I do refer to the original mod to see if the author gives permission to release them freely in their readme.
I do play Bridge Commander and I used to play it online a lot. I still download mods and use them in BC so I do have respect for the people who put time into keeping BC going.
Personally, I don?t like the fact that a lot of Legacy?s mods are BC ports but since the game was shunned by many modders it came to be the bastard child of Star Trek games that no one wants to acknowledge, which is why the rest of the star trek gaming communities are highly negative and abrasive towards it. The fact that Legacy was not widely accepted has only left new modders to mod it. New modders don?t know how to create new ships so they port them from BC, which is a shame because it doesn?t mean proper growth. Some have created new ships such as the Iris, Wombat, LongIsland, LaFayette, Delta, Luna and Devil Ray ships but not everyone has the knowledge to do so.
Anytime we get a BC port we always make reference to the fact that it is a BC ship and we always make reference to the original author, because it is respectful ? example of this is here http://legacy.filefront.com/file/NX_Nebula;83052 and here http://legacy.filefront.com/file/Victory_Class;81925 and here http://legacy.filefront.com/file/CR_Nebula;83051
So it is unfair to say that we don?t acknowledge the original authors and that Legacy is openly stealing mods from BC. Some are porting from BC but when they do the original is always referenced.
I will take you up on your offer and I will try to put out the bushfires from this. Hopefully this scenario will not happen again and I hope this does not affect your opinion of Legacy Files or the majority of its community in a bad way.
Kind Regards
Brian Hourigan (aka IKS)
That is my honest reply.
I appreciate you taking the time to write this down. I'm glad to hear that LegacyFiles.com will ensure that no restricted mods are posted.
I think you make a good point in mentioning that a potd or screenshot may seem like a prelude to a release, and this is also my concern. While I am totally assured that this won't be the case on your site, I think it's important that everyone be aware that 'private use' means 'private use'. In other words, people who convert mods for their own private use should not be displaying them publicly. This is the disrespect that I'm talking about. In the case of Noci3, no permission was given because he/she contacted me through the BCFiles email system, which I do not respond to. The readme specifically states that I should be contacted through BCC PM.
Thanks again for posting. No hard feelings.
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I should reiterate though that under the copyright law, images of the mod would be subject to the same permission as the mod itself - screenshots or not. When it becomes PUBLIC in any way, shape or form, it no longer falls under fail dealing provisions. Also, international treaty in regards to copyright law would trump the rules of any community website. The POTD would have required permissions from DJ in order to be valid.
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Hey, I just saw that in my PM, lol.
I was just going to report back here with this info but I see IKS Yo Mama beat me to it. :D
I sent a pm back to IKS Yo Mama.
I apologized for the assumption that They (Legacy Files) had to remove that potd, because it is apparently not in the rulebooks to do so. I'll take reponsibility for my actions and things I have said.
I am trying to come to the same agreement (with Legacy Files) that Chris Jones and I have on chrisjonesgaming.net.
"If and ONLY IF DJ Curtis requests for those pictures to be taken down, then chrisjonesgaming.net must abide by that request. Until then, those pictures can stay." is part of my response to IKS Yo Mama.
This does not just apply to DJ Curtis but to all model makers, whether it is in a game or not.
From this PM, I can understand his position. Not every moderator can screen everything, no one can. I believe that IKS Yo Mama was trying to put out that "brushfire" in the potd page as any moderator would when it is getting out of hand. Similar to that of the "Star Trek .vs Star Wars" debates.
I think that the deleting of posts were accurate. The locking of the thread was done, not with insufficient reason but, with insufficient explaination of that reason.
In my reply, I have also stressed that the definition of "Personal" is pretty much the same as "Private". That the potd is no longer considered as "Personal / Private".
I am trying to get it posted (or in the rulebooks) that if a modder wishes for something to remain personal / private, that Legacy Files must abide by that request. I beleive that, yes...even if it is in a different medium, it remain personal / private. I am sure that this issue will come up again (from seeing all the tension between communities) and that a post, or if it is in the rulebooks, will help bring awareness to the Legacy Files communities of this situation and educate the users there that modders of that community have the same rights and respect of the modders in this community.
For those who dislike Star Trek:Legacy, it is your right to hate it. I, however, never played that game before and I am sure that the game does not reflect the community that does like it. (I do nost speak for certain individuals who do not follow the rules and do tend to be arrrogant.) Clashes are enevitible as they are in the Star Trek vs. Star Wars debates.
I am seeking to settle this dispute.
I was not sure if anyone else had pm'ed IKS Yo Mama about this situation. I took it upon myself to do this as it can happen to me one day and I prefer to settle this now rather than wait until it has happened again.
I feel that IKS Yo Mama seems to be a reasonable person. I am glad he has posted here. I would prefer not to try and relay messeges which could be altered by my interpretation if information is not clear.
I hope I have done what is necessary and is right.
I'll stand up for truth and I will take all responsibility of my actions.
I'm not sure how to end this post and I ran out funny stuff to say, lol :D
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IKS is reasonable hes just making sure the peace is kept on both sides. Hes a good admin
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I'm locking this for the time being as I feel the issues have been addressed by all concerned and I don't want to give this thread the opportunity to go downhill.
DJ if you want this re-opened for any reason, please give me or another mod a shout.
Thx.
El.