Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC Modding => Topic started by: FekLeyr Targ on January 20, 2008, 01:58:45 PM
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Hello folks,
Finally, I've managed to make my own successful model: The whaleprobe from Star Trek 4: The voyage home. I'm planning to release it for BC, but perhabs I'll convert it for other games.
What do you think about this model? What can I do better? Please be constructive and please tell me what you think in the next 31 days before my ms3d trial has been expired. :)
PS: Any help will be appreciated.
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That probe sure is happy to see someone. :D
I think it's a great start. My main advice is to use far more polycounts since the probe concists of such few cylinders already. Counting the 12 corners the cylinders have I assume you used the standard cylinder setup in Milkshape 3d. Try turning stacks into 1 (this means it'll just have one front and one end) and the slices up to 30 or 50 (this means you'll have 30-50 corners, which makes the cylinder far more smooth).
The main problem will be damage mapping. This is the burning iron graphic you get when there's holes on any ship. Since the probe has it's tractor thingy on the round ball this tractor beam may take damage mapping also since it's part of the model. I don't know if this can be disabled.
Keep going. You'll find that a second try usually makes you even more content and invites quickly to have a third and more tries until being satisfied. Since we lack a whale probe in BC as far as I know it might be a very great effect to use ingame. If you can manage to study the weapons breen ships use and can apply this effect into some sort of invisible rapid firing pulse you can recreate the effect of the disabling/damaging sonar it used on other ships maybe, but that's a whole different dirrection of modding.
A comment on the dimensions of the probe is that the ball is tiny compared to the probe herself, possibly comparable as a small round bean with a cucumber.
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you can disable it showing damage, but i dont know to implement that so the rest of the model can take damage
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thank you all for all those tips.
Update:
Because I actaully don't have any idea how to smooth models in ms3d, I've remade the model.
edit:Perhabs I'll make that ship (nearly) indestructable and fit it with USS Sovereign's Phalantium wave and with movable ball using ftech to simulate the attributes of the probe like in the film.
edit2: Who has good texturing knowledge and isn't occupied at the moment?
edit3: Please also have a look at the bcs-tng version of this topic at http://bcs-tng.com/forums/index.php?topic=1592.msg20874#new
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It is perhaps possible to animate the lightray which holds the small sphere, but am uncertain of how such a thing is done. I do know the Sovereign model has such a feature.
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yes, in max you just map it to an IFL file
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Ah you beat me to it!
i could be wrong but the scale seems off, check this website for a good look...
http://www.merzo.net/
Im wondering, does BC support Either vertex or opacity maps? they would help for this...
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@uk_resistant: Thanks for the site. I've just given you a cookie.
I had a look on the site uk_resistant has given me and I found out, that the probe is about the size of the 2nd Deathstar divided with 2. So I'll scale to the half size of the 2nd DS available at bcfiles.
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thats if it is properly scaled, :lol:
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Update time:
I've followed a suggestion by Nighthawk at bcs-tng and replaced the ventral cylinder with 2 crossed planes.
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check the proportions, that beam of light with ball looks too big compared to the rest of it. Im sure the cylinder was more longer too.
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update:
Mainbody has been rescaled.
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thats a lot better good work. Only thing is in the couple of pictures on the net of the probe, the light mean actually covers most of the ball part, to make it look like a hemisphere.
what was the reasoning behind making the beam into planes? Im presuming it is because it would be easier to make them look like they are glowing. if so i would actually try a test with 4 planes, so it looks like 3 crosses off set on eachother for better coverage.
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update:
Beam has been enhanced. If you all think it ok like this now, I'll convert this model, ok.
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looks good man,
you might want to texture her before converting it though ;)
:lol:
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make sure to use as much reference when doing the specular map as well, as the spec highlights are really the only thing you see of the ship in the film for the part (aside from the ball).
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make sure to use as much reference when doing the specular map as well, as the spec highlights are really the only thing you see of the ship in the film for the part (aside from the ball).
agreed... at the end of the day the ship was a tube holding a little ball.. not much too it.. as uk_resistant has pointed out, this model is going to be won and lost with the textures... you have done a great job on the model so far, you have taken your time with research and have listened to the advice given to you, so all is going well.... if you cant map i suggest you learn, im not being harsh.. but a cylender and sphere are easy to map and i could do them for you in 2 mins, and i will do if ya dont manage it.. but learn and you will not only improve on work your doing but learn knowledge for future projects..
keep up the good work.. :)
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I'm glad to see that someone is finally doing the Whaleprobe lol. 8)
Granted it's not the most difficult thing to model, but it's a good start nonetheless. I've always liked the idea of a space battle with the whaleprobe, it's we never got to see anything like that in Star Trek IV. :)
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I wonder if it would be possible to make it so when you pass within a certain distance, your ship is forced to power down or lose all power... or something? That'd be really interesting to see.... I'm no programmer/script person... so I dunno. :/ *sigh*
Just a thought. One step at a time...
Also, as already stated, you could totally learn to map & texture. Your textures and speculars could totally make or break this project, but no pressure, it's cool to see another modeler taking the initiative and learning. But if you really want to make a great mod, don't be afraid to spend all the time you need to learn and constantly improve. Rebuild this as much as you feel you need to. I don't know how to map or texture yet, either, so I'm in the same boat. :) Again, take all the time you need to learn. There are TONNS of people here whom I'm certain are very willing to help you. After all, that's the whole purpose of this site, I believe... at elast, it is for me. So you're already in the right place.
Anywho... enough from me. Your project looks really cool, and I look forward to seeing what comes up.
-Aeries.
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just want to add, reference is key. If you can get some dvd screen grabs of the probe from the movie, and really deconstruct what your looking at.
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www.trekcore.com and http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Portal:Main are good ones.
edit2: Who has good texturing knowledge and isn't occupied at the moment?
I've asked this because I don't have texturing skills. And I was always bad in art.
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then this is the perfect opportunity to learn how to UV map and texture, as the model isnt that complex enough.
Not doing something because you believe you are not good enough is not an excuse to not do it, but to practise and get better so you can! This is especially true in video game art!
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then this is the perfect opportunity to learn how to UV map and texture, as the model isnt that complex enough.
Not doing something because you believe you are not good enough is not an excuse to not do it, but to practise and get better so you can! This is especially true in video game art!
:arms:
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then this is the perfect opportunity to learn how to UV map and texture, as the model isnt that complex enough.
Not doing something because you believe you are not good enough is not an excuse to not do it, but to practise and get better so you can! This is especially true in video game art!
Thanks for cheering me up. I aprechiate it. But do you know how often I've tried it? I can only draw kitchy graphics and I hate kitch.
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you should'nt have a problem with the probe, there is'nt really any small details.
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How to texture the probe:
Get several sheets of alluminum foil. Layer them. Next, crumple sheets into a ball. Then, unroll ball and try to get the sheets flat again. It should look crinkly.
Congrats, you have the original skin from the studio model. All the Whaleprobe was covered with was simply crumpled up tin foil.
:P
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I wonder if it would be possible to make it so when you pass within a certain distance, your ship is forced to power down or lose all power... or something? That'd be really interesting to see.... I'm no programmer/script person... so I dunno. :/ *sigh*
I think this should definatly be armed with the breen dampening weapon, if nothing else... maybe it will be possible to turn it into some kinda wave, like the phalantium wave
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Alright, you have convinced. Let's get started. That program do I need?
@UFDF: I'm already going to use Phalantium wave.
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ok first rule of learning things like texturing is google is your friend!
wikipedia is his!
But im feeling like sharing so.....
In my opinion the best program to use is Photoshop, its powerful, plenty of tutorials and its a industry standard tool.
Now this costs a lot, so aside from using the 30 day trial, i suggest "G.i.m.p" as it has a great following and does a lot of the things Photoshop does.
Also dont get too far ahead of your self, youl need to learn to unwrap the model first. Im sure there are plenty of tutorials for that on the milkshape website.
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Alright, you have convinced. Let's get started. That program do I need?
@UFDF: I'm already going to use Phalantium wave.
Sweet. I'm glad to hear/read that you're going to press on! A cookie for you. I look forward to seeing more progress in the future. ^_^
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I once made a model of the doomsday machine.. sitting somewhere dusty on my HDD, the model was basic and simple enough, but to draw the textures seemed like it was gonna be a liitle awkward, so i decided to load up my TOS DVD's find the episode and use the in show monster.. froze the fames, and cut and paste into photoshop, with a little tweeking here and there, i managed to have it set to be a pattern, and it looked great, no drawing skills where needed just fiddeling and loads of patience :D
infact... yes here it is...
so.. keep trying man.
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thats a pretty good texured considering how you made it asylum!. The problem is, like i mentioned earlier, the whale probe is only really seen via specular highlights, so that technique wouldnt work.
What Fekleyr has to do is to study and deconstruct how the whale probe looks and try to recreate that image as closely as possible.
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I'm downloading gimp now.
I already have a MS3D Tutorial (in german). Without it I wouldn't have started this. :)
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i quickly knocked up my own whale probe, to see how long it would take (not to put you down or anything!).
I found that by using photographs of different types of metals, and using different overlay techniques, that i could get alook similar to that of the probe. To me it looks like its been cast from iron. anyway have aplay around and i look forward to your version.
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ty, just trying to show how it was simple enough to texture a cylender without texturing skills,
i made this 6 years ago. :shock:
but i look forward to seeing the whaleprobe, but like u said previously... specular maps.. will sell the finished model 8)
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any updates? remember to post frequent (but not too frequent) updates, so you can get feedback!
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It's kind of an unwritten rule here that you NEVER ask for updates on a mod. When the modder has done enough to warrant an update, they will post one.
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It's kind of an unwritten rule here that you NEVER ask for updates on a mod. When the modder has done enough to warrant an update, they will post one.
It's a pet peeve for a lot of modders, no?
I know I'd be all like... "NO UPDATE FOR YOU!"
Anywho... patience is the key... Even when it drives us mad. ^__^;;;
But I'm no moderator, so i'm not gonna preach.
Edit:
you should'nt have a problem with the probe, there is'nt really any small details.
I think I could picture this with plenty of details, actually, if he sharpens his skills in the future. I recall the Whale Probe having all sorts of little details, like a cracked road, for lack in any better description.
I dont know if it helps, but for a colour scheme... To me, anyways, the whale probe looked like giant a burnt sausage with a glowing pearl soccer ball attatched to it. :/ Probably no use, huh?
-Aeries.
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sorry to sound impatient, it was more for the interest of being able to help him rather then waiting impatiently for a ship to arrive.
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Then I recommend to pretend that you're patient. ;)
Yes, your help could be usable now, I have some problem with applying the textures. The Textures don't want to be apllied there I want them apllied. For Example: I wanted to texture the fore and aft sides of the cylinder but the textures only apply themselves at the crooked part of it.
But I have an update:
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Do you have MSN? If so, add me (address is on my profile). I also have AIM, but I don't use it as much. While I have moved to Max 9 now, I can probably still help with Milkshape ;).
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With all due respect, i was impatient to help you to become a better artist and more confident.
as for you issue, you need to research how to Uv map in Milkshape.
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In wich way do you want to help me? As I said ANY help will be apreciated.
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any updates? remember to post frequent (but not too frequent) updates, so you can get feedback!
as others have said this earlier, never ask for updates ok? and, updates will be posted when they are ready, at the author's discretion... please do not tell others how often they should post...
anyway, back ontopic...
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Update: More Textures have been applied. (I'm actually not satisfied with the sphere)
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Looks ok to me!?
Keep at it mate, it's getting better with every update!! 8)
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Looks ok to me!?
Keep at it mate, it's getting better with every update!! 8)
Thanks.
edit: Update: Main Body fully Textured and stretched Textures fixed.
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very nice work you have done so far, keep it up!
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About 4 months have passed since the last update. Time for a new one.
What do you think about the scaling?
PS: I didn't change the textures.
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The ship looks good, as for the ship knocking out power to other vessels, I would use a modified version of the Engine overload to make it reach out farther.
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The ship looks good, as for the ship knocking out power to other vessels, I would use a modified version of the Engine overload to make it reach out farther.
I'm planning to do something similar. But it's a good idea.
I'll ask USS Sovereign to make a modifed version, but I doubt that he has time for it and I don't think he would give permission to someone else to do so.
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Bad news. My external HDD has been destroyed. The Whale Probe model has been lost. And I don't know if I'll rebuild it from scratch.
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Damn.. Sorry to hear that. What happened?
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The casing of my external HDD caused too much heat and overheated the HDD. My P Expert told me that this has happened to many of this customers. So he told me, and I'm going to tell you that, too: Always use a 3.5" SATA + IDE BOX with FAN if you want to prevent overheating of your External HDD. (And no, this isn't supposed to be advertisement)
And back up your work, photos etc on DVDs.
@Lionus: Thanks for your consolation. Btw: Send my regards to Prince Trakath, ok :)
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Prince Trakath? ummm.. who is he?
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Lionus: probably another character from the Icon your using.
Fek: he wouldn't have gotten the refrence, I think. oh, you needed a whole new set of colours on that thing (Probe) from what I remember the rod was more or less Black Marble, and the sensor ball had large blue veins in it. book cannon says that Doomsday was actually the prototype of Probe by the same species, so a similar skin to doomsday would have worked.
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Prince Trakath? ummm.. who is he?
@Lionus: Prince Thrakhath nar Kiranka is the guy on your user picture (he's a Kilrathi). He appears in the PC-Games "Wing Commander 2: Vengeance of the Kilrathi" and "Wing Commander 3: The Heart of the Tiger" (Malcolm McDowell appears in it) (this is also not supposed to be advertisement)
Since he's on your picture, I've assumed that you play Wing Commander and know him.
@King Class Scout: Thanks. :)