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BC Forums => BC Modding => Topic started by: furswift on December 30, 2009, 08:56:52 PM

Title: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on December 30, 2009, 08:56:52 PM
Hello!

I'm new to these forums but I've been on Excalibur's for a while. I'm a noob at modding; I've only done partial retextures of BC ships. Lately I've wanted to step it up a little and build a ship from the ground up. I decided to build the ship I've loved since I was nine years old. So for the 25th anniversary of her birth I built the Excelsior. I was basically learning 3Ds Max from a book while doing this, so it was a great learning experience. I would really appreciate someone porting this into BC. It's just a mesh and textures, so it will need HPs and damage textures and all the other stuff I don't know how to do. Please let me know if you're interested. Thank you.

Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Nebula on December 30, 2009, 09:06:54 PM
first question I'm going to ask on this outstanding ship is: how many polies?
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on December 30, 2009, 09:13:08 PM
Hey Nebula!

First of all I'd like to personally thank you for pointing me to st-bilder. That site's amazing collection of reference shots was a huge help.

To answer your question, there are 13,882 polys in this model.

Also, it uses six 20482 targa textures.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: JamesTiberiusKirk on December 30, 2009, 09:13:44 PM
youre jumping into the comunitiy with such a model? most impressive!
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: limey BSc. on December 30, 2009, 09:20:08 PM
To answer your question, there are 13,882 polys in this model.

Also, it uses six 20482 targa textures.

That is a damn nice poly count for such a smooth ship! Kudos!

I would suggest attempting to cut 1 or 2 of the textures out though. 6x2048 textures is a little on the high end.

I'd be more than willing to port it to nif format (and get a good look at the craftmanship :P)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on December 30, 2009, 10:08:15 PM
Thanks, Guys!

I know the textures are a bit large but I was planning on releasing 1024 textures as well to make the ship playable on lower end systems (i.e. mine). I just wanted to future proof it as well as make it look as nice as possible.

limey98 I'd be honored if you converted my mesh. Just don't look too close or you'll see my mistakes. ;)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Toa_Kaita on December 30, 2009, 10:33:45 PM
Wow...just wow...and this is your first BC model? Dang!
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: JimmyB76 on December 30, 2009, 11:25:50 PM
impressive!
*cookied*
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on December 30, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
impressive!
*cookied*

*yum* Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: FarShot on December 30, 2009, 11:56:40 PM
For a person with 4 posts, you've done a lot more than I have!

What do I have under my belt?  An uncompleted Constitution variant?  You just trumped that sucker!  Hope to see this baby in BC some day. ;)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: WileyCoyote on December 31, 2009, 12:24:01 AM
Wow. That kicks the crap out of the ones I've made. Good job!
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: DJ Curtis on December 31, 2009, 02:03:43 AM
Wow. That kicks the crap out of the ones I've made. Good job!


Ummmm, not quite.  But they certainly look nice.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Starforce2 on December 31, 2009, 02:06:33 AM
nice work. textures on the saucer appear superior to the rest of the ship, but the model is defenetly nice. Once you're texture skills get a bit better you'll be really kicking but. Another person who just did an excel is FoaS from dynaverse (his are new at bcfiles) I suggest you maybe have a talk with the guy and maybe he can give you some pointers on textures (his non-fed are even better imho..you ought to see what he's doing with mirak). You need no help on modeling though.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Vladko1 on December 31, 2009, 04:30:34 AM
Awesome Excelsior :eek Cookie :D :)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Adonis on December 31, 2009, 05:08:44 AM
Hey Nebula!

First of all I'd like to personally thank you for pointing me to st-bilder. That site's amazing collection of reference shots was a huge help.

To answer your question, there are 13,882 polys in this model.

Also, it uses six 20482 targa textures.

Dude, get me on MSN, and I'll help you, but first, we'd need to get that texture count down, and also get the coloring correct :)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: mayhemuk on December 31, 2009, 07:09:04 AM
Looks nice.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: bankruptstudios on December 31, 2009, 08:07:11 AM
Damn, have a cookie!!! Honestly, i love this color, it stands apart from the rest of the NCC Ecl's. But the yellow around the bridge has to go,lol.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: WileyCoyote on December 31, 2009, 11:09:40 AM
I could possible port your model if you used 3ds Max 9 or below. PM me if you are interested. I could also use my hardpoint from my Excelsior/Centaur Fleet Pack.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: deadthunder2_0 on December 31, 2009, 11:19:47 AM
The impulse crystal looks blank, I thought it had a sorta wire cage
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on December 31, 2009, 11:30:11 AM
Wow. That kicks the crap out of the ones I've made. Good job!

I am humbled and honored Wiley, but I think DJ Curtis has the right thought.  ;)

It's modders like you, DJ Curtis, and especially Scotchy who inspired me to get into this.

Damn, have a cookie!!! Honestly, i love this color, it stands apart from the rest of the NCC Ecl's. But the yellow around the bridge has to go,lol.

I agree the yellow looks weird, but as far as I can tell it's canon.  :)

The impulse crystal looks blank, I thought it had a sorta wire cage

Though the deflection crystal is never seen on screen, any photos I've seen of the studio model show a smooth bubble. I could be wrong, though.

Thanks for all the cookies, guys (loosens belt).

Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: WileyCoyote on December 31, 2009, 11:34:13 AM
Are there any specular maps?
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on December 31, 2009, 11:45:51 AM
Are there any specular maps?
Not yet. I'm at a bit of an impasse with those. In the movies, the Excelsior's hull looks pretty flat. I think you got yours to look good, however. I am a total noob when it comes to specular maps. Do you have any pointers?
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: WileyCoyote on December 31, 2009, 11:51:35 AM
Grayscaling the textures might help most people. But to get good specular highlighting, the background color is a dark gray, and hull plating is lighter to show up in-game. You can look at DJ's textures to see what I mean.

Textures usually have a yourtexturename_glow suffix for main textures and specular highlights have a yourspeculartexturename_specular suffix. All textures must be .tga. If you are using Photoshop, targa images have an alpha channel which tells the game to light up objects.

Specular textures can be made after the ship has been ported, but it might be tricky to get them ingame.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on December 31, 2009, 11:56:12 AM
Will changing the texture names remove them from the model? Do I need to map the speculars to the model or will they automatically line up with the textures?
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: WileyCoyote on December 31, 2009, 12:04:12 PM
Quote
Will changing the texture names remove them from the model?

Yes, but since you already mapped them on the model, renaming the textures should re-align themselves. Just make sure when you are searching for the "new" textures, select the ones that you have re-named.

Quote
Do I need to map the speculars to the model or will they automatically line up with the textures?

They will automatically line up with your textures. Just experiment. That's what I did. :)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Adonis on December 31, 2009, 01:47:54 PM
Quote
Will changing the texture names remove them from the model?

Yes, but since you already mapped them on the model, renaming the textures should re-align themselves. Just make sure when you are searching for the "new" textures, select the ones that you have re-named.

Quote
Do I need to map the speculars to the model or will they automatically line up with the textures?

They will automatically line up with your textures. Just experiment. That's what I did. :)

No need to apply the specs when porting, BC's scripting does that for you. However, the diffuse (_glow suffix) textures need to be.

Make the teal parts on the specs shades of dark grayish-green color, if you look at Wiley's sig, you'll see that the teal under environment lightning has a hue of that color. But, I must stress that you first get the texture number down to at least 4 before attempting a release. I can help with that.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: King Class Scout on December 31, 2009, 04:04:14 PM
*grins* leave the stock colour scheme you have on it, and badge it as the  USS Pittsburgh!

I also have tried a recolour of an excel as the USS Sulu.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on December 31, 2009, 04:25:32 PM
*grins* leave the stock colour scheme you have on it, and badge it as the  USS Pittsburgh!

I also have tried a recolour of an excel as the USS Sulu.
heh heh  :P

OK I think it's time I explained about the color. Most CG models of the Excelsior you see have a rather bright blue for the hull paneling. While it's true that the studio model did indeed use this color for its paneling, on screen it appears as more of a Payne's Grey. The modelers knew the studio lighting would make the blue appear more greyish and give it a more metallic appearance. Since I wanted to build something that resembles what's seen in the movie as closely as possible I chose the color from the screencap with the most neutral lighting I could find. Unfortunately, there are no perfectly neutral shots at all; they all, to some degree, have colored lighting. Since an object's color is determined as much by the light shining on it as its paint, it's impossible to get the movie color just right. I feel I got reasonably close, however.

Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: King Class Scout on December 31, 2009, 05:57:41 PM
I notied that even with BC models, that they'll appear excessivly bright and garish in a model previewer or while editing, but either soft or dim in game.  since I only have the various trek movies on videotape, rather than DVD, I've never been able to look myself.  what I saw, personally, is a color I call "Ink Blue", the color of standard ball point pen inks, here (a blue-black).  it's kinda like trying to determine the exact colour of ambassador ships and X wing graphics in the star wars universe.

I'd try altering the color-temperature of the image till it looks right again.  when scanning in graphics and images, people complain constantly that their colors get burnt out, or bleached, etc.  I always adjust the color temperature to get a more realistic color.  nobody seems to know how to adjust settings :P

there's an extensive discussion on here, somewhere, involving the true color of the original enterprise.  it mentions the "color Bias" of the particular film that was used needs to be compensated for.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: vgdude999 on December 31, 2009, 07:05:09 PM
Looks good.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: 086gf on December 31, 2009, 09:03:50 PM
Thats just beautilful man.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Adonis on December 31, 2009, 11:03:01 PM
I notied that even with BC models, that they'll appear excessivly bright and garish in a model previewer or while editing, but either soft or dim in game.  since I only have the various trek movies on videotape, rather than DVD, I've never been able to look myself.  what I saw, personally, is a color I call "Ink Blue", the color of standard ball point pen inks, here (a blue-black).  it's kinda like trying to determine the exact colour of ambassador ships and X wing graphics in the star wars universe.

I'd try altering the color-temperature of the image till it looks right again.  when scanning in graphics and images, people complain constantly that their colors get burnt out, or bleached, etc.  I always adjust the color temperature to get a more realistic color.  nobody seems to know how to adjust settings :P

there's an extensive discussion on here, somewhere, involving the true color of the original enterprise.  it mentions the "color Bias" of the particular film that was used needs to be compensated for.

Age, scene lightning used during filming, photocopying, etc. all distort the colors. Most people don't take these things into account, so that's one reason why we have some really crazy paintjobs that are considered accurate (for example, the pale green panelling on the TMP Connie's deflector housing, that is infact teal color like the rest on the ship, other would be the lack of the teal panels too like on Wiley's one).
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: FekLeyr Targ on January 01, 2010, 06:41:03 AM
Very cool so far. I look forward to the final version. You're a good model maker and I'd like to encourage you to keep making models. :)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on January 07, 2010, 10:25:11 AM
OK I got some bad news.

Adonis was kind enough to have a look at my Excelsior model last night. He pointed out some issues that will make this model difficult if not impossible to port into BC.

The actual polycount on this model is ~32K as opposed to 13K. I thought is was 13K because that's what is displayed on the top left corner of the screen. But this number displays the amount of editable polys, not triangles, making it completely useless.

The other, and I think bigger problem is the fact that the mesh is not seamless. It is in fact made up of many separate objects. I didn't know this would be an issue and just jumped right in without considering that possibility. Again my extreme n00bness shows.

Adonis told me it's still possible to port this model, but the mesh will require major surgery. I'm going to try, but I can't make any promises. The fact that you guys build these models seamlessly has raised my respect for you manifold. Again I apologize for my n00bness and hope at some point to see this model in game.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Dalek on January 07, 2010, 10:29:26 AM
Don't worry about it. We all have to learn our lessons somewhere. ;)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Nebula on January 07, 2010, 10:45:51 AM
not all bc models are seamless... some older models are cut up but still function, thy just may not damage as well.

like some of my models... heh
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: bankruptstudios on January 07, 2010, 12:11:30 PM
To expand on what Neb said, take a look at one of the most popular models here, The CG sovy. Off hand if memory serves well it has like almost 20 or so diffrent objects. I would sujest trying to colaps vertixies where you can with out ultering your over all design. Like if you lets say have a 90 corner that you wanted rounded to you have 6 vertx to form the curve. In bc you can get away with using 4 or even 3 well placed ones and if your model is 50% round curved corners, you will loose up to 50 % of your extra vertx buy condencing them. You have lots of detail and it would be a shame to loos it, so i sujest cutting down the vertex where you can, and them if that does not bring her down to 15k, then you might have to chop down the detail.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Adonis on January 08, 2010, 05:17:01 PM
To expand on what Neb said, take a look at one of the most popular models here, The CG sovy. Off hand if memory serves well it has like almost 20 or so diffrent objects. I would sujest trying to colaps vertixies where you can with out ultering your over all design. Like if you lets say have a 90 corner that you wanted rounded to you have 6 vertx to form the curve. In bc you can get away with using 4 or even 3 well placed ones and if your model is 50% round curved corners, you will loose up to 50 % of your extra vertx buy condencing them. You have lots of detail and it would be a shame to loos it, so i sujest cutting down the vertex where you can, and them if that does not bring her down to 15k, then you might have to chop down the detail.

The problem isn't that the model is a load of separate objects, but that it's seamed. The GC Sov doesn't damage properly (ok, minus the buzzards because they have animated textures on them and that's an engine limitation). Damage in BC should "fill" the holes in the ship. That happens with few models properly.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Nebula on January 09, 2010, 09:31:39 AM
CG sov damages quite well for me O.o
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Adonis on January 09, 2010, 03:34:35 PM
CG sov damages quite well for me O.o

That's funny, cuz on my old GF4MX440 it didn't, on my moms rig which has an FX8600GT it does, and with my FX6800 it also does. So it has to be related even with teh GPU and CPU of the rig in question. But with seamless meshes that isn't a problem, it seems that the calculations for the damage are easier that way.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Nebula on January 09, 2010, 03:36:35 PM
on most GPU's it doesn't damage well on you just have to delete the voxnif that it comes with, the new voxnif that is generated should take care of any issues.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Adonis on January 09, 2010, 04:30:16 PM
on most GPU's it doesn't damage well on you just have to delete the voxnif that it comes with, the new voxnif that is generated should take care of any issues.

Dude, I know, I've been fooling around with this stuff for years ;)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: limey BSc. on January 09, 2010, 05:13:38 PM
I've don't think I've ever actually seen damage bugs either. I'm not saying they don't exist or anything. But that can't be that bad if both me and Neb have managed to not see them.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: bankruptstudios on January 09, 2010, 06:57:49 PM
Honestly, i'v read in the forums that many objects in a model does not damage well or not work in BC. But i also have never seen this and thats why i menchond the CG model.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: starship on January 14, 2010, 09:37:26 AM
Hey friend, it?s a well done Excelsior! Can I own a copy of the actual version, in max format?  I don?t have plans to use her in game, but I believe she can fits very well in renderings. :)
You can have my high polly Ent-B if you like. She?s available for download at http://www.sicifi-meshes.com
Kinddest regards,
Cassio

OK I got some bad news.

Adonis was kind enough to have a look at my Excelsior model last night. He pointed out some issues that will make this model difficult if not impossible to port into BC.

The actual polycount on this model is ~32K as opposed to 13K. I thought is was 13K because that's what is displayed on the top left corner of the screen. But this number displays the amount of editable polys, not triangles, making it completely useless...
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: WileyCoyote on May 06, 2010, 07:09:04 PM
(to the moderators) I am restarting this thread for an important announcement:

I have been working with Furswift for the last few weeks to put his new NX Excelsior ingame. It is now ingame and working perfectly.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: moed on May 06, 2010, 07:47:05 PM
That looks excellent!
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Furyofaseraph on May 06, 2010, 08:19:57 PM
Agreed. Best excelsior I've ever seen.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: bankruptstudios on May 06, 2010, 08:26:33 PM
May we see some more? This rocks. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Shadowknight1 on May 06, 2010, 08:32:00 PM
Heh, should've guessed this would happen.  Who better to go to about Excelsior problems than one of the best modders of that class and her relatives?
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: eclipse74569 on May 07, 2010, 12:06:48 AM
Gentlemen, I give you....the great experiment

sexy, very sexy...hopefully my skills will improve on modeling with the Luna to look as good as this!
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on May 07, 2010, 10:15:24 AM
I've been beta testing this ship all night. She flies like a dream, Wiley. I can't thank you enough for all the effort and patience you've put into this. I thought porting this model into BC was a pipe dream, but you made it happen. Could someone please give Wiley, limey98, and Adonis cookies on my behalf?

Heh, should've guessed this would happen.  Who better to go to about Excelsior problems than one of the best modders of that class and her relatives?
Damn straight. Thanks again, Wiley.  :drink2:
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Toa_Kaita on May 07, 2010, 10:52:31 AM
Ill do the honors. And a cookie to you as well, furswift, for creating such a beautiful ship.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on May 09, 2010, 11:31:22 AM
Thanks for the compliments, everyone. And thanks for delivering the cookies, Toa_Kaita. :)

I'm making a few minor tweaks to the mesh and textures, so a release is imminent.

Now if someone could make an NX Excelsior bridge... :D
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Dalek on May 09, 2010, 11:40:28 AM
There should be one already out there. :)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: DJ Curtis on May 09, 2010, 12:21:49 PM
There's a few from 3rd era.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Morgan on May 09, 2010, 12:30:04 PM
I think he means the one from ST3. The only ones on BCFiles are the Enterprise-B, an FC refit, and the one from ST6.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Nx-809 on May 09, 2010, 01:38:52 PM
Thanks for the compliments, everyone. And thanks for delivering the cookies, Toa_Kaita. :)

I'm making a few minor tweaks to the mesh and textures, so a release is imminent.

Now if someone could make an NX Excelsior bridge... :D

Wiley has a not-finished st3 bridge!Look it in bridge mod section and I also have a model not finished! I overlapped the Excelsior bridge in bc with my model and seems to be going pretty well but Wiley model is much better :P !The problem for the bridge is not model,but are the script and animation!
pict are from my model!
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Digital_Clarity on May 09, 2010, 02:12:07 PM
Someone finally got the deflector dish right!  :yay:
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: Dalek on May 09, 2010, 02:17:20 PM
Wiley got the deflector right.
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on May 10, 2010, 04:19:20 PM
The final touches have been put on the model, so keep your eyes open at BC Files for a release. I hope you all enjoy it.:)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: starship on May 23, 2010, 09:55:24 PM
Surelly I?ll do it! ;)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: ThunderChyld on June 03, 2010, 07:13:06 PM
Furswift, that Excelsior is one of my favorites on the game.  You put a lot of love into it and it shows.  As far as I am concerned, WELL DONE!
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: furswift on June 03, 2010, 10:49:10 PM
Thanks, man. The Excelsior is my all time favorite ship, so lots of love (and pain) went into making that model. I'm glad you're enjoying it.:)
Title: Re: NX-2000 25th Anniversary Edition
Post by: ThunderChyld on June 04, 2010, 12:14:50 AM
I now know why (in canon) the ship lasted over ninety years...  Definitely one of my favorites since ST:III and when the ship was operational under Sulu in ST:VI. Rock on and once more, well done.