Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC Modding => Topic started by: ARSE on January 14, 2010, 01:12:41 PM
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Hi guys this is my own photoshop kitbash self edited drawing from technical drawings of a ship I have had in mind for a little while. In fact it is one that I am currently writing a story about, it is only rough and it fits in between the creation of the excelsior and ambassador class vessels. Built to be bigger and stronger than the excelsior but not quite as big as the ambassador. (talking in volume that is) It was used along the Cardassian border around the lost era period for maintaining border control. I have at the moment done a side view and a above saucer view. The reason I have posted it is just to see what people think of it and whether or not they think it a believable design for this era.
If anyone is willing to give a go at modelling it feel free I will allow a little artistic licence with the design as I am not 100% sure of how it will look myself. However the nacelles are canted over at a 45 degree angle leaning away from the ship and the nacelle pylons resemble more of a ambassador pylons but from where they do the 90 degree turn up they too are 45 degrees instead. If someone does make it all I ask is for my name to be mentioned as the draft designer.
Comments and critique welcome guys...
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Just to add the greyish bits between the impulse engines is the main shuttle bay it has two doors port and starboard
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how about changing the bussard collectors more towards that of an ambassador class? it looks a little too much like a standart tmp nacelle, which the excelsior and the ambassador never had.
but all in all its a lovely design so far.
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True about about the nacelles I will give something a go, i've added the excelsior grilles to the nacelles above and below aft of the pylon but I dont want the nacelles to be short and fat like the ambassador it wouldn't look right with this design they need to be more slender and thinner than that of the ambassadors more like the excelsiors, maybe something a bit like the X-era nacelles from Star Fleet Command series.
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How about this JTK???
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I like that flat neck ;) nice oldschool design :)
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Don't change a thing that looks good.
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How about this JTK???
yeah thats great.
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WELL is that weired here's a ship i am working on, it looks like the same ship
heres some screen shot so wot you think. arse ?
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I just got the fact that this ship is called falmouth (foul mouth). hahaha!
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Jesus that is just scary how similar they are cinqnic what era were you posting this ship in? Do you mind posting a top down pic of the ship please so I can see how the shuttle bay works... Amazing similarity!
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As for foul mouth, It is the River Fal in Cornwall England and Falmouth is the mouth of the river, where I live, not a pun on my username lol. It is the second deepest natural harbour in the world and is also where the first new of the success of the Battle of Trafalgar reached land and has the best pub in the world called the Chain Locker, which guess what the nic name for the ships equivalent of 10 forward is the chain locker.
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the best pub in the world called the Chain Locker, which guess what the nic name for the ships equivalent of 10 forward is the chain locker.
that where they hid the Still, then?
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here the pictures you asked for arse
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Here are the design changes I have suggested to you in your e-mail cinqinc.
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If you hadn't guessed Cinqnic and myself are now working together on this project, myself as designer and cinqnic as designer and modeller.
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great!
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right here some up dates, the model wireframe is over laid over the Arse design
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Looking good guys!
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Thats great I think though that the engines exhaust section needs to tilt forward from bottom to top if you get my drift, The shuttle bay is looking spot on! The engine cooling vents need a split down the middle from the reactor to the back of that area. What did you think of my suggestions for size of the vessel and the phasers idea?
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Looking good guys!
i hope you like it,ps hope that you ie GMunoz will hardpoint it
any way here a update pic
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if not i can hp it
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I would love to hardpoint the model. Send her over when you are ready.
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it's an excelcibassador :funny Anyone can hp it.
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Lol, the idea behind the design is it is only a fraction thinner than the ambassadors saucer and she would have filled the roll of battlecruiser about 5 to 10 years prior to the ambassador class being launched not designed, hence it shares looks with that class. I've mentioned to Cinqnic about my idea for the phasers as the ambassador had four smaller arrays as opposed to the almost complete array that the galaxy class had and two smaller ones on the aft section of the saucer either side of the shuttlebay entrance; I've proposed that the USS Falmouth (I can't decide on a class name yet, maybe Royal Oak, Royal Sovereign, Repulse or Renown (I like the old fashion proper names the Royal Navy used to give its warships they are quite majestic and have meaning or substance to them.)) has even smaller arrays but more of them, kind of between emitter stage and array. So I suggested if the arc was not broken by the shuttle bay and impulse engines that the dorsal side of the saucer would have 10 smaller arrays. With the impulse and shuttle bay in the way I suggest 7 starting in the centre of the forward section of the saucer working their way around in approximately the same distance out as the ambassador. Then 2 smaller ones aft of the impulse reactors, atop the impulse housing and possibly even one between the bridge and shuttlebay. This class was meant to be armed to the teeth to be off putting to the buildup of activity by the newly discovered species called the Cardassians, they and the federation had many border skirmishes during the lost era period as well as the Klingons and Cardassian partaking in a 18 year cold war that threatened to explode into full scale war at any moment with the Federation caught between. Therefore a more battle ready cruiser was deemed necessary by Starfleet Command thus the birth of the USS Falmouth and its sister ships the Falmouth the second in her class.
So what do you think to the idea, obviously the ventral side of the saucer would mimic this design of array as well? I was also thinking due to there being a limit in size that engineers could so far make phaser arrays that instead of a longer phaser array across the belly section of secondary hull perhaps two arrays in a FWD to AFT arrangement either side of the centre line in the same position of the belly phaser.
I am also thinking about where the torpedo launchers should be placed, I know for certain that I want it to have 6 launchers FWD and 4 AFT each capable of firing 2 or 3 torpedoes. I would like two to be beneath the shuttlebay on the secondary hull like the excelsior class where the hull first takes a step down, and I was perhaps thinking either a twin launcher above the shuttle bay recessed into the hull or 2 launchers in the rear of the neck section. The forward facing torpedo launcher give me a little more trouble deciding probably four of them are best placed in twin launchers one pair in the forward section of the neck and perhaps two beneath the deflector housing, as for the other two I am stumped but I do want 6 forward. The reason for this being is at the time of construction torpedo launchers were still only capable of holding 3 torpedoes each to fire in quick succession therefore the resolve to give quicker reloads is to add more torpedo launchers.
Comments and ideas welcome guys.
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Maybe being inbetween the excellsior and Ambassador, maybe on the sauser is has a single 1/4 saucer lenght phaser emiters on the top and bottom of the saucer section facing foward and the rest of phasers being the older style phaser arrays like used on the excelsior, it could be the test bed for the "new" phaser emitter technology, but Starfleet not wanting to rely on it, still using the older reliable phaser arrays everywhere else? Just a thought
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That actualy sounds good. I second that.
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more updates.
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more pic
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I think it would look a bit better if the pylons were either perfectly straight or set up like Ambie pylons. It doesn't look right curved like that.
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the pylons and engs are still to be worked on but thank you for you feed back
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engines seem a bit large for the ship when viewed from the side.
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i would suggest changing it to a more of a excelsior class or connie class nacelle
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the nacelles are fine...however their size is a tad large.
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That looks great Cinqnic although I agree with the nacelle pylons and the fact that you said the engines need more work, a bit thinner a tad longer, could do with bringing the hull scoop out a little further forward with the pylons and extend the secondary hull section with the shuttle bay in a little further aft. I think if the pylons came out flat and level like the ambassador to start with and then up a 45 degree angle from there to the engines which also in the original design are angled at 45 degrees so that they are the same as the nacelle pylons. I think too that the engines need to drop down a fraction.
I love the darker texturing on the saucer it makes it look like its got armoured plates. The bridge looks a little on the large side considering the ship is only a fraction thinner across the hull than the ambassador and the shuttlebay on the saucer is all one bay, but like the sovereign class that has three doors that interconnect across the shuttle bay, the falmouth has two doors but unlike the sovereign they dont interconnect, it has that pillar in the middle within which is the flight control room, rather than being at the rear of the shuttlebay like you see on the connie class in Star Trek 5. Behind this pillar the shuttlebay connects up, with just a catwalk down the middle at the top deck of the bay connecting the pillar to the rear of the shuttlebay, it can also be accessed by a turbolift that goes up the pillar and allows access on to the bottom of the shuttle bay from the base at the rear of the pillar also. This is how I envisaged the ship anyway, I've spent a lot of time thinking and drawing it at home, I have many different sheets of paper with ideas on and rather stupidly have become extremely attached to this design, I am also in the midst of writing a story that is based around this vessel and the lost era period.
I definately would like to see the pylons and engines like I mentioned just to see what it looks like if anything, if it looks wrong then it?s all part of the designing phase certainly slightly lower the engines though, looks too much like the TOS connie with them up that high, meant to be more like the excelsior in proportions than the ambassador chunkiness, although there is nothing wrong with the ambassador I love it.
Another thing for the engineering section looking front end on at it I think it should not be entirely circular but more egg shaped with the thinner part being at the bottom again keeping part of the excelsior lineage it being u shaped from front profile, its just adding a rounded section to the flat part.
Finally I have decided where to put the last two forward torpedo launchers If the nacelle pylons are bulked a bit around the root on the topside , where the pylon meets the hull, slightly pod shaped like you see on commercial jetliner aircraft (although the commercial jetliner pod section are on the underneath of the wing to accommodate the landing gear) and mount them within that. From head on it would look pretty mean two on the lower section of the neck two beneath the deflector array and one either side in the nacelle roots, I?d say it would look off putting from a Cardassian cruisers point of view from the lost era period with that bearing down on you. I like the ambassador frill that goes from the pylons around to the shuttlebay opening., although I?m not a fan of the Enterprise C touch to the underneath of the aft shuttle bay with that even smaller shuttlebay, that just looks awkward to pilot into.
Going back to the Phaser design I think I prefer the smaller array sections around the ship, It would look a bit Frankenstein with both.
All in all this beauty is beginning to look marvelous!
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Now for an idea I've had in mind for this ship, looking at the nacelles in the side profile you will note that from just aft where if mounts onto the pylon it steps up. Within here is where auxiliary impulse engines are located and they are also used for venting drive plasma quickly. They are not conventional impulse engines in as such as they do not use a fusion reactor to power them, they are the same as the impulse engine from manifold aft (manifold being the connection between the reactor and impulse driver coils) They are force fed drive plasma from a bleed off from the warp coil assembly using what would otherwise be a byproduct of the warp engines when not being used at warp, seeing as the impulse engines are deactivated within warp they will not affect the ships warp performance, a design I have had in mind for starships for a very long time and it makes actual sense. ?efficient? to put it into Borg phraseology and ?logical? for Vulcan phraseology. The reason for these extra engines, one to give an extra speed boost in emergency situations, these engines also have the ability to close bucket like shutters across the exhaust and open forward facing vents in the root of the nacelle / pylon junction and force the thrust out the front to act as emergency aft impulse power, i.e. this system deploys for emergency stop at sublight speeds and for and aft impulse power speed boost and also by deploying these engines individually it allows for quick hard turns port or starboard again giving it an added advantage. (This is the option for added speed and agility until the newer impulse engine designs come out with the sovereign class, which enable her to reach speeds and maneuver like a vessel quarter her size, I?m not making this up I have read this and I?m sure a lot of you have as well.) So in essence that act like huge RCS thrusters for the lateral plain. The main reason for this is the ship like the constitution and excelsior the ship is able to separate the two hull sections but seeing as the galaxy was the first able to reintegrate without the aid of a dock or starbase or another vessel, I?ll leave it that the Falmouth requires aid to reintegrate.
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Sorry for double post just adding a pic so cinqnic can see how the aft view of the ship looks...
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i like the nacelle set up very nice gives it a unique look
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more up dates
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Looking good. Can't wait to get my MPE on her.
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Just a bit of input . . .
Model an design are great.
The colour scheme looks too post DS9. Too much dark grey to look Ambassador era. lighter greys and teal would look better IMO.
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Its getting there now cinqnic, just need to smooth the wrap around flight deck a bit and extend it past the aft of the shuttle bay like the Ent-C. I guessing your still work on tilting the warp engines over, the pods just above the nacelle pylon need to be blended into the nacelle pylons themselves. This is really starting to look very good its like the design I've dreamed of for a long while is finally becoming a reality. (well atleast in BC anyway lol)
To Gmunoz, I'm guessing you definately want to do the HP I am happy if Cinqnic is, do you agree with the weapons layout I have spoken of so far??? bearing in mind she is built primarily for battle but has all the scientific gear as well but as a secondary role, it does not dimish her exploration capability by any means, e.g. take an excelsior from lost era period speed it up a bit beef up the weapons lots wallah USS Falmouth-B!!!
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Royal oak, there is to many minators
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voted for Valiant.
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Here is an updated picture of the Nacelles for the Falmouth, bearing in mind these are viewed looking at them being sat upright and that once on the the ship they will be canted over at 45 degrees.
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Apologies for double post but I forgot to attach this picture as well to compare with the earlier position of the nacelle picture these ones lean in by 45 degrees rather than out I dont know what you think???
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they'd be eating backwash and taking damage from the impulse engines when they're used.
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Them Impulse engines are a bit excessive, though they would probably make her fly lol.
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Thats the idea! If she can't beat it she'll out run it. They are there to provide the 21st century version of torque as well, e.g. taking a diesel 4x4 through deep mud and rough terrain as opposed to say a sports car. 24th century equivalent flying in very close proximity to stars gravitational anomolies that other ships would be pulled into to again enable her to out manoveur her enemies.
Also in the pic there should be atleast another nacelles width of saucer poking out each side but because of the way I have messed around with it in photoshop i've cut the sides of the saucer off lol. So the impulse engines won't look as excessive when you look at the whole vessel.
Also the other idea behind the impulse engines is obviously ordinarily she would not have the need to zoom about so the excess power generated by the impulse reactors can be tapped off to other systems e.g. the weapons or shields. I believe I am right in saying that certainly in this era the impulse reactors were used to provide the bulk of the power to the phasers anyway??? I seem to remember something like this being mentioned in TMP.
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i also have heard that but wasn't the power drawn from the warp engines e.g star trek the motion picture when they first jumped to warp the engines went into an imbalance and created the worm hole and nearly killed by flying into an asteroid
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right here are some more pictures
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Love the engines absolutely love the engines, its almost as if you've pulled the design out of my head and put into computer model wireframe format! Amazing. Can you post some more pictures from different angles please?
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more pictures still alot of work to be done
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what colour ? do we think this blue is better then the grey
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You need a much lighter blue.
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You need a much lighter blue.
seconded. more blue instead cyan and a tad less saturation and lighter color.
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third
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Ahh I see now. Thanks for the explanation. I thought it was just part of the design lol. But, besides them rather larges engines, the rest of the ship looks like a perfect addition to my "Uber BC Install".
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Blue and yellow chevrons beneath the bridge structure in the U shape like the excelsior had, I'd prefer a slightly darker blue as opposed to the paler blue just to make it look a bit more warship looking, somewhere between the excelsior blue and royal blue would look better. I think that the larger part around the window, phaser and registry area should not be as big a section coloured in I'd still like to see the red lines either side of the registry area and by the time the phaser arrays have been mounted there will not be so much area to colour in, I think for this section maybe just a slightly darker grey than the rest of the hull, too much blue I think. The blue on the saucer edge is good very excelsior-esque. Perhaps a blue circle on the saucers underneath in a recessed par tof the saucer like the excelsior and then bring the red line circle in a bit more starting the front corner of the impulse section. Going back to the topside of the saucer, the shuttlebay emergency hatch definately should be a darker grey not blue.
I certainly prefer the blue impulse reactors rather than the copper look.
give me a hour or so and I will attempt to colour in and alter on photoshop to what I think would be a good paint job.
I love like the double fins on the impulse reactor housing they're a definate keeper, although could you bring the reactors and the fins forward a bit to make some more room for the phaser arrays which will be mounted behind them.
Shes starting to shape up now!
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please excuse the crappy picture but I don't see the need to be precise on a idea picture I can do better if required...
Right, with excuses out of the way, here is the topside colour scheme idea I've come up with again not set in stone to how I'd like to see it but some where near it, as always cinqnic carry on with your artistic licence if you think something would look better then by all means but this is what I've got in mind.
Note in the picture I have moved the impulse reactors and fins further forward and have kept them blue.
I've roughly placed the phasers in although I don't think that they should be quite as long as they are in the picture about 3/4s that I believe would look better now I've looked at them a bit.
Also the red name and registry rings are kept in place.
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Found sum pictures of colour I like, and the patterns I mean,
The first one for pattern around the bridge superstructure and the second one for the darker blues in use.
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Heres more pictures if any ones up to texture this well please let me know as i am not that good with textures
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I recommend Wiley or DJ take up the textures. The prophets will phrase this vessel and make her fly, as well as look sexy ;)
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Good of you to volunteer them. :roll
Cinqnic, you have a good start there. I would say make the blue paler, more like the outer rings, and to make the alternating yellow/blue pattern less circular and more follow the shape of the bridge/deck 2 section.
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well i stick at it here the lnew picture of the texture still it have it windows put on
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That looks much better. The only thing I can recommend is making the thickness of the yellow/blue pattern the same all the way around.
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Good of you to volunteer them. :roll
Cinqnic, you have a good start there. I would say make the blue paler, more like the outer rings, and to make the alternating yellow/blue pattern less circular and more follow the shape of the bridge/deck 2 section.
Lol i wasn't volunteering them. I was merely recommending them lol. But I do agree with you on the saucer pattern.
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Right big question and I'm willing to learn I at the moment certainyl for a few weeks have a lot of free time on my hands, so I guessed why not learn to texture, I have adobe photoshop what else do I need, is there a free program I could use to apply the textures to the model if Cinqnic gave me a copy of the model???
Bearing in mind I have never done this before but the I learn't how to use a lot of photoshop self teach and can easily create this like the BCC logo at the top of this website, if you take a look on bravofleet.com the logo's and ship badges on there I can make easily as well so for the drawing side of things I think I would be okay its applying textures and learning how to draw them what I am trying to say is I seem to pick things up on computers pretty easily so if someone is willing to be like a mentor to em I will attempt the texturing myself. Also I'd like to learn how to the nacelle bussard collectors like a few of the recent releases have got them wear you can see through them and the insides of the collector, if cinqnic is willing to make the insides of the engines, I would like to attempt to textures similar for the warp nacelles as well, so that perhaps you can see the warp coils in the the nacelles.
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you need a 3d modeling program, G Max should work
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Okay I have Gmax how does one operate this piece of software?
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look at the 3ds max tutorials, it operates the same way
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well this is interesting after doing an update to AVG installing GMax and NIFscope, I can no longer use my computer it wont even load windows anymore be it safe mode or windows repair etc well and truly FUBAR excuse my language, so this means until I can find alternative means of attempting to learn to texture I'm stuffed. lol
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belive it or not i use ms paint and ms picture it. plus back from sunny blackpool time to start work again on the ship
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I should have a new computer within a week to two weeks, just got to finish building my new machine for which I was saving for and doing in slow time now I have an excuse to expedite its construction YEY!
Back on topic how goes the "Falmouth" Cinqnic? If my Father doesn't mind me putting some texture programs on his laptop as this is my only access to the internet now, I will attempt the textures still, alternatively if someone who is already adept at doing textures then I don't mind putting my texturing project on the back burner and just learning and then perhaps attempt a retexture when I feel that I am happy enough.
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Heres more pictures if any ones up to texture this well please let me know as i am not that good with textures
you've got a bulge on the left side in the yellow/blue band.
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here some new pictures just weapons placement to do and abit of textures, let me know what you all think
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get rid of the arrays and add ball turrets
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i am just the ship builder arse is the design and he wants arrays but if its ok i might do two ships one with and one with out and one with a mix
any way heres the ship with it younger sister and older bro so you can see the sizes
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get rid of the arrays and add ball turrets
No balls.
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NO BALLS ARRGGHHH!!!! to late an era for balls lol no really if people want the ball turrets and Cinqnic wants to make variants thats fine perhaps maybe the prototype for this class had ball turrets then the first production model of its class had a mixture and then the falmouth the 2nd production model had arrays.
Cinqnic still need more arrays as opposed to just the five like the amby make the forward port and starboard shorter and then add others in between.
Just need the torpedo launcher nacelle pods added on the upperside mate a slight step down on the underneath of the aft shuttlebay like the excelsior class out of which two aft torp launchers would live. Add in the twin launchers at the bottom of the neck and beneath the nav deflector dish and its pretty much done then. just smooth the nacelle pylons out a fraction from the front of the pylon to the angle up, its got a slight bump in it.
Oh and before I forget the impulse engine in the rear lower section of the neck needs adding in got to say im not a fan of the little step out section beneath the main shuttlebay at the top of the neck unless you higher it and blend it in to the flight deck section not sure it looks too right.
I'm liking very much the overall product ! Excellent!
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this post is mainly for Arse, torpode placement let me know
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I would go with neck. That would still be a little more like the excelsior.
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just more picture, just the torpodes placement to do
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Right Torpedo placement first...
Fwd all 4 points that I have marked, the neck torpedoes are to go side by side similarly to the constitution neck, if you build a solid bit of the neck up around that section rather than the grilled neck just across the lower end. Then flare this bit out just enough at the angle shown in the pic. Insert the same style launcher beneath the nav deflector as well. Finally add in the nacelle pod torpedoes.
In the next picture the Aft placement just before I mention the torpedoes, please add in the central impulse engine about a decks height above the base of the neck and in the solid section either side of the neck please add a airlock. The aft torpedo launchers either side of the neck above or beside the impulse engine fires 3 torpedoes each. The launchers beneath the bay fire 2 each as do the ones on the lower hull. The lower hull ones to be twin launchers like the neck and beneath nav deflector at the front. The aft launchers beneath the aft shuttlebay are to be spaced apart about two launchers width between them so imagine that there are four launchers under the bay mounted into the step down and then remove the two inner ones and you have the gap between the two outer ones that the distance desired.
Whilst looking at this picture you will see that I have continued the torpedo launcher step down under the aft shuttlebay because that looks more excelsior like and it actually put the nacelle pylons where they are in the original design. Also if it is not to much of and issue could you make the nacelle pylons a fraction thinner they look just a fraction chunky.
The two forward phaser arrays need to be moved further around the saucer and a central forward one added so that they are equally spaced. Also instead of a belly phaser athwartships could we have two smaller ones either side of the centre line in a fore to aft orientation instead mimicking the placement of the older style ball turrets on the underneath of the excelsior and constitution.
The two airlocks on the inside of the flight deck mounted on the side of the impulse engines I think need removing because I just have visions of walking in and then getting toasted by the impulse manifolds as there doesn't appear to be enough space for a corridor, unless you intended them as maintainence hatches for in dock??
Finally I've realised with only using the impulse engines as steerage this baby is only going to be able to go straight and very fast, shes missing thrusters I suggest 1 in the centre of each quarter of the saucer some smaller ones on the aft corners of the nacelles and a couple on the underneath of the secondary hull.
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Sorry for double post just had an idea... For the aft lower shuttlebay instead of the bay doors splitting down the middle and opening sideways, like a connie, why not put a single door in with the slats going sideways and it opens bottom to top so it swivels open like a swivel top bin ("trash can" for our puddle jumping bretheren lol) or like a clam shell.
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I TRY the torpodes around the def and it didnt look right too Enterprise A look, so what do you think of this set up
it will have 5 FWD lauchers
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quick question - is that p81 ambassador? if so, are you going to do anything about the ship's textures? perhaps not so much purple for nacelles?
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Good idea but I have noticed a slight problem, size those launchers would be launching photons the size of shuttle craft nearly, given that the saucers edge contains atleast 2 decks on an excelsior this thing would logically have atleast that if not three, there for there needs to be a lot more decks textured into the secoindary hull and the saucer windows made smaller and more of them, could you make this ship a fraction larger, I don't mind if it is longer than the ambassador it still wont have as much internal volume as her, the saucer is meant to be only a fraction smaller than the ambassador when i say fraction I'm talking a matter of 5 or 6 meters so she would fit her saucer in the ambassadors with room for a cabin between her saucer and the ambassadors all the way around. I'm working on a picture now to show what I had in mind for the launchers.
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OK I have done my doodles, in this post is the correct resize for the ship. (Guys please don't say its too big because don't forget the Yamato class battleship is actually around this size and so is the missouri all built before this this construction tech is there to do it. The Yamato dwarfed the excelsior, hell one of its secondary hulls were a lot larger than the excelsior secondary hull. Therefore it is feesible that starfleet would build a ship this large in the more squat a more excelsior stretched out design just prior to the ambasador going for the more taller chunky design which leads on to the galaxy class)
Now you can see why there is a need to make the windows a lot smaller and that the previous launcher design would be launching torpedoes atleast the size of a shuttle, which I don't mind lol but wouldn't have much space for extra shots lol
Seriously now the pictures beneath that show the forward launchers the upper one in the lower neck is just a ever so slight build up around the base of the neck to allow two launchers in there, the lower launchers beneath the nav deflector jus need a space similar in size to the neck launchers, (see the need to scale down the launchers and scale up the size of ship now?) but just a recessed cut out into the hull no build up around the the launchers required they can be set into the hull as much as necessary to fit in. In the side on view it just shows the neck launcher as the beneath deflector launchers would be recessed into the hull you would not actually see them from this view. not the position of the airlock at the rear of the neck.
Finally I have drawn up the position of the neck aft launchers and impulse in the lower picture.
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Here is a new idea I've had for the additional torpedoes and an adjustment to the nacelles to make them look even more like the original design. Now all torpedo tubes are restricted to 2 STVI style torpedos each giving the FWD arc a maximum of 16 Torps in one barrage and 12 in the AFT. More than two each and it is silly over power, I believe it is just right considering her role and the fact that she is meant primarily for taking on the cardies who fight in packs of ships it makes tactical sense. Cinqnic twin torp launchers in all FWD positions please???!!! lol! I thought to put the launchers here because there is a large empty grey space looking forward at this section of the nacelle. Thats why I thought to lower the collector and plasma grill section forward of the auxilliary impulse engines and insert torp tubes it gives this previously non functional section of ship a smaller non functioning area and a section to insert the tubes, it also takes them away from a thin section of hull, i.e. the pylons, this move to also makes structural and tactical sense. The torps are not stored in this section for these launchers for two reasons one not enough space, two too dangerous to have a stash of torpedoes right next to warp nacelles or impulse engines they are instead fed along the nacelles from inboard armouries in a belt system rather similar to belt fed machine guns or a factory carousel.
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Weapons placements are looking good.
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More than 2 is an overpower, 8 torps is a overpower, when do you have time to launch that may torps in the heat of battle?
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Given the fact that the ambassador had at least 8 tubes in total that were salvo capable quite easily, that fact is cannon from reading the lost era books by the way, its endorsed by paramount so its cannon.
I'd like to wind your memory back to nemesis how many torpedoes did the E fire? 10's of them and that was only against a single target, how about First Contact all ships fire 10's and yet again a single target. The new Star Trek Movie many torpedoes from several of the ships in film (Enterprise, Narrada) fired yet again at a single target. The Falmouth is designed to take on many targets at once. Each tube is only supposed to fire 2 each now consider what I said earlier it is designed to go up against the cardassian hunting packs of the era more or less on its own, that means at least 3 or 4 ships at once, so you spread your torps across the attacking wolf pack its simple logical and makes tactical sense, you knock out or down shields at a longer range with torps and then let the phasers do the rest when in close again the most logical and tactical move to make the enemy think twice before firing as they may hit their own when in close proximity mixed up in the pack, this too is the reason for large impulse engines. Rather than putting a salvo in one or two tubes which takes a long time to load and one direct hit and you entire forward or aft torpedo offensive ability is destroyed it is also laid out as such to enable longer lasting weapons placement meaning that the enemy has to target many areas to destroy her offensive ability again for anti wolf pack tactics if there are launchers it cant see in a direct line of sight, hence weapon arc shadow caused by the ship itself, then the cardy can't destroy your other launchers until it maneuvers through your other weapon arcs thus opening itself up for attack from your others arcs. Note also I said STVI type torpedoes not the current Enterprise C torpedoes that could would possinly be in use around this period, reasons easy to build from spares (older more understood technology) replicators are only now being introduced in this period therefore torps would have to be made from scratch if you didn't have replicators and secondly the more modern torps are designed for the more modern launchers in the ambassador class and onwards which use larger salvo's which the older style launchers couldn't. I request you cast your memory to ST6 both the excelsior and Enterprise only fired a maximum of 2 torpedoes from each tube before reloading. Hence the more torpedo tubes because the technology of the era wasn't capable of firing large torpedo salvos.
I have thought this through thoroughly and have played the devils advocate with the entire design so I have asked myself this question more than once but I can warrant the amount of torp tubes by the evidence provided above using the cannon examples and just evolving the amount of tubes and lessening the salvo amounts keeping the amount of torpedoes. Enterpise-D could fire up to 12 or 16 of her much more advanced and destructive photons from one tube FWD and one tube AFT if I remember.
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Given the fact that the ambassador had at least 8 tubes in total that were salvo capable quite easily, that fact is cannon from reading the lost era books by the way, its endorsed by paramount so its cannon.
I'd like to wind your memory back to nemesis how many torpedoes did the E fire? 10's of them and that was only against a single target, how about First Contact all ships fire 10's and yet again a single target. The new Star Trek Movie many torpedoes from several of the ships in film (Enterprise, Narrada) fired yet again at a single target. The Falmouth is designed to take on many targets at once. Each tube is only supposed to fire 2 each now consider what I said earlier it is designed to go up against the cardassian hunting packs of the era more or less on its own, that means at least 3 or 4 ships at once, so you spread your torps across the attacking wolf pack its simple logical and makes tactical sense, you knock out or down shields at a longer range with torps and then let the phasers do the rest when in close again the most logical and tactical move to make the enemy think twice before firing as they may hit their own when in close proximity mixed up in the pack, this too is the reason for large impulse engines. Rather than putting a salvo in one or two tubes which takes a long time to load and one direct hit and you entire forward or aft torpedo offensive ability is destroyed it is also laid out as such to enable longer lasting weapons placement meaning that the enemy has to target many areas to destroy her offensive ability again for anti wolf pack tactics if there are launchers it cant see in a direct line of sight, hence weapon arc shadow caused by the ship itself, then the cardy can't destroy your other launchers until it maneuvers through your other weapon arcs thus opening itself up for attack from your others arcs. Note also I said STVI type torpedoes not the current Enterprise C torpedoes that could would possinly be in use around this period, reasons easy to build from spares (older more understood technology) replicators are only now being introduced in this period therefore torps would have to be made from scratch if you didn't have replicators and secondly the more modern torps are designed for the more modern launchers in the ambassador class and onwards which use larger salvo's which the older style launchers couldn't. I request you cast your memory to ST6 both the excelsior and Enterprise only fired a maximum of 2 torpedoes from each tube before reloading. Hence the more torpedo tubes because the technology of the era wasn't capable of firing large torpedo salvos.
I have thought this through thoroughly and have played the devils advocate with the entire design so I have asked myself this question more than once but I can warrant the amount of torp tubes by the evidence provided above using the cannon examples and just evolving the amount of tubes and lessening the salvo amounts keeping the amount of torpedoes. Enterpise-D could fire up to 12 or 16 of her much more advanced and destructive photons from one tube FWD and one tube AFT if I remember.
As Star Trek grew in both size and popularity in the 1980s, fans considered how to treat the ever-growing collection of episodes, movies, novels, comics, technical manuals, and more.
The Star Trek canon is generally defined as all live-action television series and feature films released by Paramount Pictures. With the release of Star Trek: The Animated Series on DVD, the studio appears to have changed its stance, and is now listing the cartoon series (aired 1973?1974), as a part of established canon. [1] [2] [3] The various "official" references (such as the Star Trek Encyclopedia or the Star Trek Chronology) may be used as a guide to canon information, but are not canon in and of themselves.
The definition of Star Trek canon may vary for different fans, and therefore for a reference source like Memory Alpha, the question may become especially difficult.
In those cases, the term fanon is used to refer to "fan canon" (of which the term is a portmanteau). It applies to certain "facts" that may have been accepted as a truth by a large number of fans, and thus either replaces an established canonical fact in the minds of those fans, or fills a plot-hole.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Canon
Affiliation: Federation Starfleet
Type: Heavy cruiser
Active: 24th century
Armament: Ten phaser banks; two photon torpedo launchers
Defenses: Deflector shields
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Ambassador_class
must i say more
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I'm not getting into an argument with some one all I'm saying is read the books THAT ARE ENDORSED BY PARAMOUNT! Therefore to be considered as CANNON! Time and again the star trek encyclopedia has been found to contradict itself, read the arguments for the excelsior class size on memory alpha.
Besides it says launchers, what isn't mentioned is how many tubes the launchers have there is nothing to say that they have more than one tube, for example when the enterprise d fires her spreads eg the four torps coming out at once they come out simultaneously therefore suggesting one launcher many tubes.
The same could be said for the Enterprise C, again they are salvo firing launchers the torpedo launchers on the Falmouth are only capable of firing two torps like the connie and excelsior again (I'm getting tired of repeating myself for the benefit of those who can't read previous posts) to get around being only able to fire 4 torpedoes a requirement to engage the cardies on a better playing field you install more launchers, to keep you happy I will say there are four launcher systems each with two tubes capable of firing two torps in each in the forward arc and five aft 4 with one tube firing 2 each and 1 with two tubes firing 2 per tube.
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Well if it had more torpedo launchers, esppecially aimed in different directions, it would be surmised that the ship is a Dreadnaught, and thus slow turning, which is why theres a new for more weapons pointing in different directions, to make up for the slow turning of the ship
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exactly, i think it needs port and starboard torpedo tubes, not a massive fore salvo, it is necessary to balance the ship to other ships of the era (for god's sake, the JLS Ambassador has NO torpedoes).
If you do use that many torp tubes i recommend a weaker projectile(250-400 damage points)
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(for god's sake, the JLS Ambassador has NO torpedoes).
It has no "visible" torpedo tubes, just like it was on the original model. You can still fire torpedoes.
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ok, but still, 16 fore is overkill, 8 fore, that is ok.
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here the new torpodes points,
plus new window set up, plus shell i put escape pods on the hull so the are visable or leave it like an ent b where you cant see them
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I'm not sure if its the angle of the picture but those phaser arrays aren't symettrical to the ones on the other side of the saucer.
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angle of the phaser in that picture was off, but here are the twos ship that will be hard pointed, still texture work to be done
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Eh for both I'm thinking with the second one is take the 5 phaser strips and move them further out so they meet the color break where the gray and blue meet and increase their lenght so it pay dues to the Excellsiors 5 phaser arrays but meets half way too the Ambys 4 longer phaser strips that sit farther out on the saucer. Thats if anyone understands what I mean at least
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i do and i ve moved them
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very nice! i like the ship on the left above its looks more like when the feds were moving from partial array to full array but remember don't make the phasers to big because it is set before the ambassador not after so the arrays can't be much bigger the the ambassadors
i think the phasers under the bridge though look to much like emitters and look stupid compared to the rest of the ship
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Hi all back now got to catch up. Cinqnic have you put the lower set of torps in beneath the nav deflector? If not I don't mind although I would like to see them there. I've noticed you haven't yet lowered the forward section of the nacelles yet please could you do that ta. LOL!. I love the new look torp launchers and I believe you have rescaled the ship at least it would appear so given that the windows now look a lot better. The phasers I like the current idea I just feel that the darker hull section now no longer has a purpose and the saucer hull colour should be the same as the rest and then add a few more WINDOW (left that word out before and I've only now realised idiot!) textures, or add visible escape pods in darker hull sections but make the patches smaller just around the escape pods. I think the phaser arrays should be a little longer or more of them. Definately alter the darker hull pattern texture it just looks like its lacking detail in these areas or alternatively just add windows and escape pod hatches in these areas.
Thats about it for the designers input and critique other than can we have a few more pics (ideally all angles e.g. PRT STB AFT FWD DORSAL and VENTRAL) just so I can get a better look at her and maybe a few close in shots of the detailed sections, eg, the neck shuttlebay and impulse engines from above. and a new scale comparison pic.
ADDITION: Just had another idea on the underside of the impulse engines could you add the impulse crystals slightly set in more than the above like the underneath of the miranda class impulse reactors the recess around the dome dips in more and the crystal dome itself is slightly smaller. Also refine the centra plate of the nav deflector a bit more, e.g. remove the spike flatten it a bit less like the zhukov and more bronze in colour, or remove it all together as the Enterprise C didnt have one it would make sense that this class didnt just like the excelsior didnt ta buddy.
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quick update the ship have been done just waiting to hardpointed,
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Hi folks, Here is the USS Falmouth in game with glows added. Weapons points are next, all 21 phaser arrays and 18 torpedo tubes, so might be a while LOL.
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all 21 phaser arrays and 18 torpedo tubes.
God ships BEWARE! You're in for a SCARE! :P
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Hi folks, Here is the USS Falmouth in game with glows added. Weapons points are next, all 21 phaser arrays and 18 torpedo tubes, so might be a while LOL.
Not everyone likes God ships, you know. :roll :funny
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Not everyone likes God ships, you know. :roll :funny
Implying that he won't balance the phasers and torpedoes properly for fun and playability.
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I don't see the point in god ships.
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Hi folks, Here is the USS Falmouth in game with glows added. Weapons points are next, all 21 phaser arrays and 18 torpedo tubes, so might be a while LOL.
someone went overkill on torpedo tubes
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the design is really nice! i like it!
my only slight critique would be the rear impulse engine seems a little slight on the large side (from that one pic above) - but i do agree that the weapons listed do seem a bit much... just my opinion :)
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AAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!
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Thats gonna leave a mark :funny
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i am going to run and hide, soz got that wrong i am going to fly and hide
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Revenge of the Ambassador's younger brother? (or Akira's OLDER brother)
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The recipients of the USS Falmouths gift:
Captain: Damage report!
Helm: Guidance system out. Auxiliary control out. Warp and Impulse out.
Tactical: Detecting multiple inbound torpedoes!
Captain: Evasive Action!
Helm: Sir thrusters are non responsive..... What do we do?
Captain: We die.
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This is definitely a warship and I'm looking forward to seeing her in action ;)
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AAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!
lol oh good lord :P
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Well I am having a bit of a delima here.
The ship is most definatley balanced for the pre-TNG era as far as hull, shields, systems and weapon's strengths but despite already tweaking her down twice already I can still take out a Galaxy class with the Falmouth. The shear number of weapons just overwhelms the opponent. If you hit with a full torpedo volly it will obliterate whichever shield face it impacts.
This one definatley fits the classification of a true battle cruiser.
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AAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!
lol oh good lord :P
Reminds me of an old Akira pic I made hehe
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why not weaken the torp damage, to something like 200, and the tubes should have varying reload, like the ones on the neck, and the main aft ones should have a faster reload, and the ones on the nacelles, and pylons should have a slower reload also it's phasers should not be anywhere as strong as the ambassador, the larger the array, the more emitters, the more emitters, the stronger. theses small arrays don't have the amount the ambassador has. Also a short burst would be nice, may be more balanced
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Ok, think I have her balanced pretty good.
Anyone interested in Beta testing?
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i will test
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Thanks deadthunder, I e-mailed you the ship.
anyone else?
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I'm interested :D
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Okay, gave her a run. She was evenly matched with KM beta's Ferengi Marauder, but Keldon wiped the floor with her. I'd say that the HP is spot on, she is agile and has good phaser coverage. Torps could use bit more tracking ability, they usually missed.
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it works fine, it's torps are a little strong, and they need better tracking, but that is all i see wrong
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Thanks for Testing!
Torps are the standard TMP Torps which have a damage 0f 500, as oposed to the LC Ambassador which has a photon strength of 850. I don't think I can make them any weaker and keep it balanced for the era. I will improve the tracking a bit and give it it's own dedicated torp.