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BC Forums => BC Modding => Topic started by: MarkyD on June 11, 2010, 01:52:56 PM

Title: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: MarkyD on June 11, 2010, 01:52:56 PM
As jimmy posted in one of the threads.

We have been unindated with a huge amount of TOS, PRE TOS and JJ ESC designs as of late.. not allot of TNG in there with the exception of DJ and Rengers. So to that end.. I ask the question...  

 What makes the perfect TNG Fed ship in your opinion..  ??

    What should it have? what does it need? what should it do without? what are the limitations? To what the trek universe will let us explore..??

I ask these questions because I am building a TNG varient of the Atraiu.. and want to have some imput.

For those that dont remember her I have included an image that Wiley provided when he got her in game last.

It was converted for release, by the superb Dalek.. he went to town on it.

But to make it TNG or any other ship TNG..   what would you guys really like to see in a game model for BC??

Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: baz1701 on June 11, 2010, 01:56:17 PM
Well I'm a big fan of sticking to the classic Jefferies configuration.

The only exception to the rule that has worked it the Defiant.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Bren on June 11, 2010, 02:36:24 PM
Surely you're forgetting the Akira, the Nebula class, the Sabre, the miranda, and (to an admittedly lesser extent) the Steamrunner?

They're all fine ships that contravene the Jefferies basic shape.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: DJ Curtis on June 11, 2010, 02:37:18 PM
I think that TNG is too narrow of a descriptor.  The ships of the 2360's, ie: Galaxy, Nebula, etc... are products of schools of design of the late 2340's and 50's, if you read the tech manuals.  So really, TNG I think means 2350's and 60's.  

My thoughts:

1: A saucer that is wider than it is long.
2: Very smooth, organic lines.  No hard edges like what we see in TMP or the revival post-TNG.
3: Wrap around blue nacelle grills.
4: A galaxyesque color scheme.
5: Impulse engines that look a little small for the design.
6: Phaser arrays, rather than emitters.
7: Nacelles mounted below the saucer, whether or not they are above or below the drive section.
8: Saucer sep

These are mostly things that could be executed in a variety of ways, but i think they certainly help to give a TNG feel.  I think that #1,2,3, and 6 are probably the most important.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Lionus on June 11, 2010, 02:37:33 PM
And then there's Akula, Freedom, Challenger..
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: MarkyD on June 11, 2010, 02:43:19 PM
Thanks, fellas..

Allot of you are just naming ship classess, but that means (not a lot) to people when visualising it.

@ DJ THanks for ur input that norrows the field a little..  ;)

@ Baz can you explain the Jeff config?

and to the namers of ship classes can you guys please explain what ur thinking?
 :thumbsup:

THanks.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: baz1701 on June 11, 2010, 02:46:41 PM
@ Baz can you explain the Jeff config?

Enterprise 1701 throught to E, Voyager, Basicly saucer with a engineering hull slung underneath and to warp nacelles connect buy pylons.

Jefferies as in Matt Jefferies the father of the Enterprise.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Lionus on June 11, 2010, 02:54:55 PM

and to the namers of ship classes can you guys please explain what ur thinking?
 :thumbsup:

THanks.


Akula

(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/c/cb/USS_Akula.JPG)

Challenger

(http://starfleet.unblog.fr/files/2009/04/challengerclass.jpg)
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: MarkyD on June 11, 2010, 03:01:19 PM
Thanks fellas.

@ Lionus

your now just showing images of ships...  :hithead:

I do not see what you are trying to get at in relation to the Perfect TNG ship mate  ;)
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Lionus on June 11, 2010, 03:07:15 PM
IMHO, engineering/sec hull is just overrated.. those ships that I showed did well without one, and same applies to Cheyenne-class and few others that have been mentioned.sure, the cap ships (Galaxy, Intrepid, Sovie) still have them, but most of the smaller ones are just dandy without sec hull.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: MarkyD on June 11, 2010, 03:13:53 PM
IMHO, engineering/sec hull is just overrated.. those ships that I showed did well without one, and same applies to Cheyenne-class and few others that have been mentioned.sure, the cap ships (Galaxy, Intrepid, Sovie) still have them, but most of the smaller ones are just dandy without sec hull.

@ Lionus..     :thumbsup:      thanks for the explanation mate   :bitch:

Open to allot of discussion i am sure  ;)
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: CptBenSisko on June 11, 2010, 03:30:28 PM
IMHO, engineering/sec hull is just overrated.. those ships that I showed did well without one, and same applies to Cheyenne-class and few others that have been mentioned.sure, the cap ships (Galaxy, Intrepid, Sovie) still have them, but most of the smaller ones are just dandy without sec hull.

A lot of those ships were also cannon fodder or two slow to be front line explorers and such....ships like the Cheyenne, the Springfield, Challenger...most of them were testbed ships designed to test new systems, and also to be defensive ships as well because of their low warp and slow impulse speeds...

P.S. I don't think there is any 'perfect' TNG design. More so what makes sense i would say. if you take the TMP Enterprise and slap the Intrepid saucer on it it would look atrocious...but modifying a prometheus saucer section and mounting it to a sovereign styled secondary hull and similar styled nacelles wouldn't look bad...it has been done before fyi just using that as an example...
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: bankruptstudios on June 11, 2010, 04:01:41 PM
I'd say follow dj"s line of thinking. Narrow down the year of the ship you want to design, and from there look at the canon designs from around that time. Some TNG ship are really jest reworks of the Enterprise, and then there are others that are way out there. But if your looking for imput, asside from defient, most all ship in tng are big, or have a wide stance. A good starting place would be doing the next class up from the Nova. Small, compact mid range potrol that is more balanced for cargo, or light compat, like a police ship.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: metalnick on June 11, 2010, 04:10:18 PM
For me the perfect TNG ship is the Galaxy class. Matter of fact I usually stick with DJ's Pegasus in my custom install and don't really bother too much with the other ships I have with the exception of the TMP 1701 I have.(can't remember whose it is atm) I think DJ pretty much nailed it with his post as far as what a TNG ship should have.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: MarkyD on June 11, 2010, 04:16:26 PM
Lol..

Kinda funny.. I agree with allot of the input, and I agree with DJ's input as in the physics of how it should stand....    But what I need is the Bubble, in the Norm, the Challenge the idea that says NO!!!  :evil:  Why not do this  :yay: Etc Etc

The fountain of knowledge is here.. im kinda tapping it on the cheap  :)
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: DJ Curtis on June 11, 2010, 06:03:15 PM
Best place to start then is to probably determine a role for the ship.  What's it going to be for?  What would starfleet demand of it in terms of speed, sensors, firepower, etc?  Answering those things should help you get a go on things like size and general shape.  Galaxy class is only so big because it's designed to do everything, Nebula is designed so that it can carry a pod.  Catch my drift? 

You're a clean modeler, Mark.  Make something special. :)
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: dEjavU on June 11, 2010, 08:06:10 PM
Akula

(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/c/cb/USS_Akula.JPG)

Challenger

(http://starfleet.unblog.fr/files/2009/04/challengerclass.jpg)


I think what Lionus(and others)are trying to get you to grasp is how the basic older designs like the TMP Akula is translated into TNG Akula(Challenger class)from here you can desipher exactly what TNG lineage can be introduced to any known varient of any classes available or into any new designs concieved. Another good comparison is the Constitution refit and the Galaxy class, both are designed for maximum mission flexibility for their era but if you can see how much more erodynamic the galaxy design is compared to the Constitution refit. Looking at other TNG era fed ships like the Akira, Luna, or even the Nebula and comparing them to any TMP fed ships and you can see that it's not too hard to notice what TNG design elements there are as they are very pronounced.  ;)
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Bren on June 12, 2010, 07:39:50 AM
All I was really getting at was that a ship doesn't have to be shaped like the standard Jefferies (or "Enterprisey") configuration in order to be beautiful. I was basically citing oddly-shaped ships that I like, to encourage you to think outside the box.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: hobbs on June 12, 2010, 07:55:25 AM
if i were to say "TNG ship what is it" first thing comes to mind is the galaxy class... it was a multi role ship and mainly explorer (if very powerful on the weapons front) but to me that is what a TNG ship is EXPLORER.

I agree with what has been said but to give you a "you must"---

you MUST make it galaxy (ent-D) colour... thats the TNG look... the grey scheme is pretty much after tng.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: King Class Scout on June 12, 2010, 08:53:33 AM
you mean to tell me I'd have to put up with all that Duck Egg Blue forever and ever?  Ewwwwwwwwww.

DJ summed it up very nicely, but i think the Next G design format would be confined to the first five seasons at the most (2369/SD 45000)  i think when the borg were introduced and gene died, the format started shifting back to war preparedness physically (that's when ships suddenly gained their spear-hulls).  take Mr Roddenberry's revival and Death times as the ideal spot in the next G design area.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Adonis on June 12, 2010, 11:20:25 AM
First off, TNG ships in their essence can fulfill multiple roles, something that in TMP couldn't really be done right.

Now, first, you need to - as DJ said - think of what date should this ship appear, the exact role this ship specializes in, what fleet role should she play (these pretty much dictate even the weapon arrangement). After that start on the shape :)
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Hellsgate on June 17, 2010, 02:27:24 PM
I love this one. Orthos?

(http://bc-central.net/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7525.0;attach=43556;image)
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Dalek on June 17, 2010, 02:40:05 PM
I believe these are the closest thing that comes to orthos.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: bankruptstudios on June 17, 2010, 04:11:53 PM
I think as long as you don't Galixcy class this ship, it would be a perfict Late tng era ship. I would love to see that.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Side 3 on June 17, 2010, 04:18:04 PM
On a completely unrelated note, I think that Atraiu (I assume derived from Norse myth) would look right at home with a Trek 11 paintjob.

On a related note: What makes a good TNG ship are fluid lines, wide, powerful looking engines that imply they push the ship through space at breakneck speeds, and a sort of luxury look. I dunno about anyone else, but I got a cruise liner feel from the Galaxy when I first saw it.

I suppose if you were looking for reference material for design and backstory, later Range Rover models would be a great start. They look gorgeous, and barely work! There was always something going wrong with the Ent D, after all.  :funny

Seriously though, I think they convey what I was trying to get across perfectly. They're big, rough'n'tumble off-roaders but they do it in an attractive, luxury style, and are very cozy on the inside. Perhaps without giant highbeam space lights though. :P


Note to self: Download an Akula.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: hobbs on June 17, 2010, 06:11:43 PM
loving the atraiu.... really love its look. thanks for the ortho-ish pic dalek :)

@ side 3 agreed... tng = luxury wrapped strength  :evil:
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Dawg81 on June 17, 2010, 07:16:32 PM
Ok Marky now why didnt u tell me when we last spoke that u already started a thread on our new venture (note to self bring can of whoop a## to next IM convo with Marky)
ANYWAYS we are thinking of using elements from the intrepid and nova classes to augment the new design such as an intrepid saucer shape for the forward section an a hybrid of the nova and intrepid deflector dish. Now those orthos from dalek are stunning and wouldnt mind using that dark texture on this new atraiu class. Atraiu is a Native American word meaning GREAT WARRIOR and i myself am of cherokee decent. Now that being said i think she should be like a heavy battlecruiser set maybe in the DOm war era (marky)? And maybe keep the phaser cannons and the artillary torp launcher which Marky loves and add lateral phaser arrays on the sides and emmitters aft to give her protection. That concludes my 2 cents for the day
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: MarkyD on June 19, 2010, 08:38:06 AM
dawgy... Yeah quite right  :thumbsup:

loving the atraiu.... really love its look. thanks for the ortho-ish pic dalek :)

@ side 3 agreed... tng = luxury wrapped strength  :evil:

dalek did the conversion for this model fellas, he did a great job on it and its up for DL

Yeah, my thinking is sized between the intrepid and nova, with elements from both but I will follow my design cue from the atraiu to keep it believeable.

prob classification would be escort class like the defiant.. so she has teeth and since the first Atraiu Class was to fend of the Doomsday machine, the second incarnation has been built to fight an equally terrifying threat  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Dalek on June 19, 2010, 10:11:36 AM
The Borg Destroyer! Or, maybe something more catchy? :P I think if you're going with Intrepid and Nova elements, don't make them too obvious that they are. They could be considered the building blocks for how the Intrepid and Nova eventually turn out.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Dawg81 on June 19, 2010, 10:46:34 AM
that would require alot of armor perhaps it could be a Dom BB basher even take on one of those planetary defenders of theirs (in small groups)
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: MarkyD on June 19, 2010, 11:55:42 AM
The Borg Destroyer! Or, maybe something more catchy? :P I think if you're going with Intrepid and Nova elements, don't make them too obvious that they are. They could be considered the building blocks for how the Intrepid and Nova eventually turn out.

that would require alot of armor perhaps it could be a Dom BB basher even take on one of those planetary defenders of theirs (in small groups)

That get's the spidey sences sparking  :thumbsup:

Nacelles are now pretty much done, when i am happy they are finalised, I'll post a wip.  ;)
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Shadowknight1 on June 19, 2010, 06:51:38 PM
How about making her an 8472 killer?  :P
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Lionus on June 20, 2010, 01:14:28 AM
that would be overkill of overkill.
Title: Re: The Perfect TNG SHIP
Post by: Dawg81 on June 20, 2010, 09:53:45 AM
yeah all it would need are nanoprobe warheads