Author Topic: Star Trek: Discovery Discussion (WARNING: SPOILERS)  (Read 22027 times)

Offline Morgan

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Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #80 on: September 25, 2017, 11:54:34 AM »
yes it is lol
Meh I can't argue subjective opinions.  I just found when I rewatched the Xindi arc I liked it a lot.  Hell, even season one isn't as bad as I remember.  And season four... C'mon man!  At least season four gets pretty high marks from Trek fans in general.

Offline hobbs

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Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2017, 01:12:33 PM »
so im going to watch it later, im in the uk but luckily i found out today that its on Netflix which i already have so thats cool.
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Offline hobbs

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2017, 04:21:53 PM »
Ok so i watched it...

I think its ok, im reserving judgement till i see more. but at the moment im going to go for a  :thumbsup: i think.
Spoiler: show

my few frowns are only about the ship designs they seem to much like the ones from startrek online... too futuristic i think but i again will wait till i see more.
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Offline Trim

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2017, 05:15:57 PM »

Offline Nebula

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2017, 05:47:02 PM »
For the klings, it looked like 24 unique ship designs/variations. (the current leading 24 houses) The main ship in the fleet had the more traditional Kling design.

I liked the Fed ships I saw a few that looked TOS Mirandaish.
I can see how they could feel too new for the 60s TOS era but at least they didn't go complete touch screen they still have physical buttons on the consoles.

We might eventually see a Constitution classship. They do exist at this time.
They may wish to update its look slightly.
Canon is what people argue exists on ships that don't exist.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2017, 06:56:06 PM »
I'm ok with visual retcons to an extent (for example, I don't care if the D7 or Constitution has more modern, visual detail to them, just as long as the basic look is the same), just as long as the overall canon and history remains intact if they're gonna do the prime timeline.

Ideally, given the story line that they're pursuing in season one, it probably would have been better set in the 2230s or 40s.  We know that Federation-Klingon tensions started flaring up again around the late 2210s - early 2220s; the Battle of Donatu V takes place in 2245.  That era seems much more ripe for exploring Federation-Klingon tensions than a time period so close to Kirk.

Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #86 on: September 26, 2017, 07:37:01 AM »
Visual retcons is one thing.

But Discovery goes leaps and bounds beyond that. Holograms in 2256? Even the Prometheus of the 2370s was NEW with the ability to project holograms outside the Holodeck or Sickbay. Window as Viewscreen? Really?!? Again with the bullshit JJverse (in supposedly "Prime" Universe). Thruster-suits more advanced than TOS EV suit or TMP Rocket pack? Yeah...

Visual Reboot/Retcon aside, this is plain and utter bullshit. The lead character bears many similarities to Worf (loss of parents in sneak attack, raised by alien species, an outsider within Starfleet etc). Nothing we really haven't seen before. Then there's the Klingon ships, which bear little or no resemblance to TOS D7s. Klingons with Cloaking Devices? Romulans using Cloaks was NEW in 2260s. Klingons didn't even use Cloak until the Movie-era.

Then there's the story issues...

Let's send the 1st Officer (a non-scientist), alone, in a rocket pack to investigate an anomaly. No backup of any kind (Starfleet protocols of 2370s, says you always travel at minimum 2 people). Captain and 1st Officer on the alien planet, a pre-warp civilization, send the same two people to the lead Klingon ship to capture their leader. Are there no Redshirts in this era?
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Offline Nebula

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #87 on: September 26, 2017, 09:04:58 AM »
Canon is what people argue exists on ships that don't exist.

Offline JimmyB76

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #88 on: September 26, 2017, 10:49:07 AM »

Offline Nebula

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #89 on: September 26, 2017, 11:58:17 AM »
i wholeheartedly agree with your points, most def!
if this series took place like in the future after Nemesis, like 100 years after or whatever - that would make so much more sense IMO...

Visual style had to change the 60s look no longer attracts audience. Even with the updated look I don't think it could fit post Nem. (they are still using physical buttons on the consoles.)

I appreciate TOS place in history but I can understand the need to update its feel.
Canon is what people argue exists on ships that don't exist.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #90 on: September 26, 2017, 12:19:34 PM »
Visual retcons is one thing.

But Discovery goes leaps and bounds beyond that. Holograms in 2256? Even the Prometheus of the 2370s was NEW with the ability to project holograms outside the Holodeck or Sickbay.
Those were simple holograms; projections of people communicating in real time - low definition images with obvious imperfections.  We have similar technology today (have you ever seen the Tupac hologram? 
).  The holographic images in Discovery were nothing like the holograms of TNG/DS9/Voyager that had full on sentience and were visually indistinguishable from a real person.

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Window as Viewscreen? Really?!? Again with the bullshit JJverse
It pretty clear that they were around in the prime universe as well before the timeline split between it and the JJ-verse.  The Shenzhou is said to be an older ship as well, possibly from the Kelvin's era.  The Frankin (from Beyond), an Enterprise-era ship, had them too.

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Then there's the Klingon ships, which bear little or no resemblance to TOS D7s
C'mon dude, we're only two episodes in; we know next to nothing about those ships - for all we know they're just as old as the sarcophagus ship or simply private, civilian vessels owned by each house's family, not military vessels.

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Klingons with Cloaking Devices? Romulans using Cloaks was NEW in 2260s
That cloak was destroyed before it could be spread.  The Enterprise novels explained the cloaks in "Minefield" as being defective due to them taking power antimatter containment.  Since the Klingon's cloak was destroyed, we know nothing about if that would be a problem for them too; but no matter what, the technology died when that ship blew up.

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Starfleet protocols of 2370s, says you always travel at minimum 2 people
Exactly, the 2370s, this is the 2250s.  In Kirk's era it was common for the captain and first officer to go on away missions together; we saw Kirk run off alone several times and Archer as well a century earlier.  Protocols change.

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Are there no Redshirts in this era?
I will concede we definitely need redshirt console explosion death.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I swear I'm getting flashbacks to the kind of nitpicking that ended up killing Enterprise right when it was getting good - partially the showrunners fault for going in the prequel direction, but isn't there room for fans to meet in the middle sometimes (especially so early in the series life)?  This is our first series in 12 years and we're only two episodes in - and Trek spinoffs are well known for having problems in their first two seasons (compare TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise's first two years to their later ones for reference).

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #91 on: September 26, 2017, 08:11:03 PM »
The tie in novel is really good, it is written by David Mack.

It is a couple dollars more expensive though because it is a direct tie in.

He wrote it like any other trek novel, so it does include minor references, things like Andorian gender prefixes and certain characters from a Starship.

He tries to reconcile some of the differences where he can, for example the reason they don't have the uniforms from The Cage is because they are only on Constitution classes ATM.

He had access to the scripts as they were finished and was talking to the people in the writers room to try and be as accurate to the show as possible. Apparently a couple things he came up for the novel will also be in the show.

However, just like for the last 51 years, the novel is non-canon, so the shows writers don't need stick to what hes written.

Speaking of novels, in the actual show there is a plaque in Georgiou's readyroom from the Laikan Military Acadamy on Andoria, in the novels Laikan is the capital of Andoria, its never been mentioned on screen in previous productions, it was entirely Beta canon before.

The Klingons also mention the 'Black Fleet' which was a concept of Klingon afterlife in the books before the show created Sto'Vo'Kor, after that the books just combined the two concepts.

Do I have to show this again?
Notice the window?



It's not a new concept

Plus wasn't there that episode where Kirk looked into the bridge from the outside?

Offline Morgan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #92 on: September 26, 2017, 11:47:08 PM »
He tries to reconcile some of the differences where he can, for example the reason they don't have the uniforms from The Cage is because they are only on Constitution classes ATM.
Oh I'm waiting for someone to throw a fit over the uniforms just so I can hit them with this picture from Generations.  We know both the late-TNG and early-DS9 uniforms were in service side-by-side for at least five years; there's no reason The Cage's uniforms and Discovery's can't be that way too.

Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #93 on: September 27, 2017, 01:26:57 PM »
Yeah except... the TNG and DS9 uniforms looked largely the same (flipped the placement of the black and department colors).

Discovery Uniforms and Cage Uniforms look nothing alike. Not even Department Colors. Try again?
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Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #94 on: September 27, 2017, 09:37:23 PM »

Offline Nebula

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #95 on: September 30, 2017, 12:00:50 AM »
Engineering
Canon is what people argue exists on ships that don't exist.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #96 on: September 30, 2017, 12:15:58 PM »
Yeah except... the TNG and DS9 uniforms looked largely the same (flipped the placement of the black and department colors).

Discovery Uniforms and Cage Uniforms look nothing alike. Not even Department Colors. Try again?
They're still two different uniforms in service concurrently.  The level of differences is just fishing for things criticize.

Trek either gets with modern production standards or we're stuck with repeats for ever.  Personally, as long as the core story pans out and is good, I'm not throwing a fit over little things.  We had that with Enterprise, and lost it as it got good.  I'm gonna give Discovery more than two episodes before I start nitpicking.

Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #97 on: September 30, 2017, 01:55:48 PM »
I'm perfectly fine with updating to modern production standards. But to do so, maybe they should progress the timeline past what we already know. Quit fucking with Trek History. Literally! I like how you made two mentions of "nitpicking" using different terminology. So criticism is not okay, because you happen to like it?

People criticized ENTERPRISE even harsher than the criticism levied against Discovery, specifically because it looked too advanced for the era. Now we're doing the same exact thing, by making yet another prequel. Why keep rehashing the same era over and over?
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Offline King Class Scout

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #98 on: September 30, 2017, 05:35:34 PM »
holy crap, and I thought my account and login disappeared!  that's why I haven't been here.

I watched the only over the air last week.  my mother caught it at the same time, and didn't 'get' it.

oh, I got it, alright...at Dragonball level pacing!  the thing was full of nods and tech from everything done for trek BUT TOS.  from the look of things, we might as well consider this a fourth trek universe, instead of being the Prime Universe they claim it as.

that said, it's been pirated to death already, and the biggest complaint runs thus
Quote
I ain't paying an extra 6 bucks for THIS!  :bitch:

course, finding out this show runs EIGHT MILLION BUCKS an ep...
OS novel fan

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Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #99 on: October 01, 2017, 03:28:18 PM »
I'm perfectly fine with updating to modern production standards. But to do so, maybe they should progress the timeline past what we already know. Quit fucking with Trek History. Literally! I like how you made two mentions of "nitpicking" using different terminology. So criticism is not okay, because you happen to like it?

People criticized ENTERPRISE even harsher than the criticism levied against Discovery, specifically because it looked too advanced for the era. Now we're doing the same exact thing, by making yet another prequel. Why keep rehashing the same era over and over?

Enterprise I can believe fits in the Prime Timeline visually.

Discovery I cannot, but the lore/narrative fits fine so far, I'm willing to let the visuals pass.