Unusual Crash - Possibly RAM related?

[vonfrank]

I'm running into an intermittent and extremely difficult to narrow down problem...

Occasionally, the members of my crew will simply stop talking (ie, no more chatter about the status of enemy hull integrity or my own shield strength). When this occurs, they can no longer be spoken to and do not even turn around to address the character.

Generally, this does not directly hinder the tactical view since combat continues like normal, but if you attempt to interact with the crew more than a few times, the game will crash.

The most frustrating thing about this issue is that I cannot detect a pattern for what causes it. Sometimes it happens time after time, and sometimes with the identical selection of ships in a quick battle, it won't happen at all.

The ONLY thing that I notice as a possible pattern is that it usually only happens when there are a variety of different ships in combat at once. Half a dozen ships or so normally doesn't lead to it being an issue, but too many more than that and it tends to be more common to occur.

Because of this, I'm wondering if it's a RAM related issue. My computer has 20gigs of RAM and I even have the 4gb patch installed on the BC.exe, so there's nothing more I can do there.

Could I simply be running into a game engine limitation? Is RAM not the problem at all and there's something else causing this? Is there some way for me to determine what is happening when the crew gives me the silent treatment?

Any help would be appreciated.

[JimmyB76]

when that happens at that exact moment, grab a console report...
i doubt it is a RAM issue...  what mods have you installed?

[Morgan]

I've noticed this happening on my main install as well and it usually occurs when a BC crash is imminent.  I reviewed the console report after and nothing out of the ordinary, so I'm thinking this is just a symptom of the BC engine's inherent memory leak problem, combined with the game running on a post-XP operating system.

Unless you get a console dump that says anything different, I'd write this problem off as BC's age showing.

[vonfrank]

when that happens at that exact moment, grab a console report...
i doubt it is a RAM issue...  what mods have you installed?

I have the 1.1 patch and BASIC Foundation installed along with the Defiant and Intrepid bridges and a ton of new ships and hardpoint tweaks. I don't have NanoFX or KM or even FULL Foundation installed. For simplicity I've tried to keep my install light.

Also, I'm not exactly sure how to get a console report...

[JimmyB76]

sounds like it shouldnt be a problem...
can you recreate the crash?  perhaps a few times?  and note what is exactly similar happening at the exact time of crash?

as far as getting a console report:

Easiest method is with this little script by USS Frontier - Console Tracker:  https://www.nexusmods.com/startrekbridgecommmander/mods/427/?

Just drop that .py file in your "scripts/Custom/Autoload" folder, load up the game, and then exit and you'll have a console report text file in your "scripts/Custom" folder.

It logs everything automatically so you don't even have to think about it.

[vonfrank]

sounds like it shouldnt be a problem...
can you recreate the crash?  perhaps a few times?  and note what is exactly similar happening at the exact time of crash?

as far as getting a console report:

Here's the console Log:

Code: [Select]

>> This is a console tracker dump       by USS Frontier
##############
>> This dump started on -> Thu Nov 09 22:48:16 2017
##############
#----------------------------------------------------------------------->>> Thu Nov 09 22:48:16 2017
####
['lActiveMutators = [', '\011"""Stock Systems""",', ']']
['lActiveMutators = [', '\011"""Stock Systems""",', '\011"""Stock Ships""",', ']']
['lActiveMutators = [', '\011"""Extra Ships and Mods""",', '\011"""Stock Systems""",', '\011"""Stock Ships""",', ']']
Tracking Console
['lActiveMutators = [', '\011"""Extra Ships and Mods""",', '\011"""Console Tracker""",', '\011"""Stock Systems""",', '\011"""Stock Ships""",', ']']
####

####
AttributeError: PreLoadAssets
####

#----------------------------------------------------------------------->>> Thu Nov 09 22:50:24 2017
#----------------------------------------------------------------------->>> Thu Nov 09 22:52:32 2017
#----------------------------------------------------------------------->>> Thu Nov 09 22:54:40 2017

As you can see, nothing shows up. I ran a battle with approx 20v20 ships. About 6 or 7 ships down, the crew stops talking. The battle continues on as long as i dont interact with the crew too much. As soon as I tried to talk to Kiska for the 2nd time, immediate crash.

It really seems like it happens more frequently if I include ships that have 2048x2048 textures. Not using such ships appears to delay the issue, or sometimes removes it altogether. This is why I suspected RAM as the issue.

Having windows task manager open on my second monitor shows me my memory usage ranging from approx 400mb (fresh load of QuickBattle with  Galaxy class and Galaxy Bridge) up to approx 1200MB with those 40 ships loaded. I've noticed the silent treatment is more common when BC uses more than 1000MB, and almost a certainty if it goes above 1500MB. This seems surprisingly low considering the 4GB patch should allow for up to 4096MB..... 

...assuming this is the culprit in the first place.

[King Class Scout]

I can see why you'd think this would be RAM related, I get a similar problem when catching up Facebook; once it starts hitting one gig of the processor, it lags out, and I have to shut the whole browser down.  if it does it more than three times, it's time for a general maintenance purge.  when running BC, i'd hit this at 3 gig of processor use.

[Morgan]

As you can see, nothing shows up. I ran a battle with approx 20v20 ships. About 6 or 7 ships down, the crew stops talking. The battle continues on as long as i dont interact with the crew too much. As soon as I tried to talk to Kiska for the 2nd time, immediate crash.

It really seems like it happens more frequently if I include ships that have 2048x2048 textures. Not using such ships appears to delay the issue, or sometimes removes it altogether. This is why I suspected RAM as the issue.

Having windows task manager open on my second monitor shows me my memory usage ranging from approx 400mb (fresh load of QuickBattle with  Galaxy class and Galaxy Bridge) up to approx 1200MB with those 40 ships loaded. I've noticed the silent treatment is more common when BC uses more than 1000MB, and almost a certainty if it goes above 1500MB. This seems surprisingly low considering the 4GB patch should allow for up to 4096MB..... 

...assuming this is the culprit in the first place.

Your console dump looks similar to mine when that happens, so that's reinforcing my belief that this problem is a combination of the BC engine's memory leak problem and the fact that the game wasn't designed to run on modern versions of Windows (I never had the crew go silent on me prior to Windows 10).

The best advice I can offer is keep textures at 1024x1024 or lower wherever possible.  Unless you plan on taking super up close and personal screenshots, 2048x2048 is overkill for regular play and just makes BC leak memory faster.  If you're just playing around blowing stuff up you won't even notice the lower texture resolution.

DS9FX also has a memory cleaning feature that deletes destroyed objects.  If you don't want to install DS9FX, you can at least install QB Autostart 0.91 here:  https://www.nexusmods.com/startrekbridgecommmander/mods/492/?  and then extract KM's "FixMem.py" file from the scripts/custom/QBAutostart folder in that mod and port it to your own BC install.

None of these things are cure all's; BC will still crash eventually but it'll be a little bit more stable.

[JimmyB76]

also, 20 vs 20 ships might be just a little too much...
try 10 vs 10 or 6 vs 6 or even 4 vs 4...
may not make a difference, i am just curious...

[vonfrank]

also, 20 vs 20 ships might be just a little too much...
try 10 vs 10 or 6 vs 6 or even 4 vs 4...
may not make a difference, i am just curious...

I have had it happen with as few as 4 vs 4, but it is far more repeatable with a larger number of ships present.

Your console dump looks similar to mine when that happens, so that's reinforcing my belief that this problem is a combination of the BC engine's memory leak problem and the fact that the game wasn't designed to run on modern versions of Windows (I never had the crew go silent on me prior to Windows 10).

DS9FX also has a memory cleaning feature that deletes destroyed objects.  If you don't want to install DS9FX, you can at least install QB Autostart 0.91 here:  https://www.nexusmods.com/startrekbridgecommmander/mods/492/?  and then extract KM's "FixMem.py" file from the scripts/custom/QBAutostart folder in that mod and port it to your own BC install.

I run windows 8.1. Do you know if there are any compatibility settings that help the game run more smoothly? Like "disabling visual themes" or "windows XP compatibility mode", ect...

As for the FixMem, does it and QB Autostart require Full Foundation? Or will the Basic do?

[Morgan]

Basic Foundation is fine.  As for compatibility settings, I usually run BC in compatibility mode for Windows XP SP3 but I haven't noticed any differences with doing that to be honest.