Star Trek: Picard Discussion (WARNING: SPOILERS)

[Tuskin38]

It's amazing.

[JimmyB76]

yeah im def all for it also 

[Tuskin38]

https://ca.startrek.com/videos/jeff-lombardi-talks-iconic-props-from-star-trek-picard

So B4's parts in the drawer? They're props from previous productions, they managed to track down who bought them after they were auctioned off

[Tuskin38]

According to a new BTS video on Picard, La Sirena is not a Federation starship, but Rios did retrofit it with Federation tech. Though I wonder if the set designer meant to say Starfleet not Federation. Either would work I guess.

https://www.facebook.com/StarTrek/videos/389782971981809/?v=389782971981809

[Tuskin38]

Designing La Sirena

https://ca.startrek.com/news/designing-the-la-sirena

[Tuskin38]

[3 of 12]

Season 2 Teaser:

[Tuskin38]

that one is Region locked to the US, here's two free ones (or at least I can watch in Canada)

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1379148587909607427?s=20

https://ca.startrek.com/videos/watch-a-star-trek-picard-first-look-season-two

And a breakdown

https://blog.trekcore.com/2021/04/star-trek-picard-season-2-trailer-major-guest-star-announced/

[Raven Night]

I have to say I am very dissatisfied overall with STP. The series had some great highlights here and there, but overall was a muddled mess that really screwed up quite a bit of established canon. Not to mention the terrible state of the Federation as it is portrayed.

I hope Season 2 is a huge improvement.

[Vortex]

^^ Same. Playing on Picard's illness like that and then making it completely pointless by the end was so cheap and anti-climatic. They should have showed it getting worse during the course of the show and end it with Q greeting him in the afterlife saying that the trial is over and Picard has been deemed worthy of joining the continuum to explore the final frontier.

[Tuskin38]

Picard didn't screw up any established canon that I'm aware of. 

And the Federation wasn't portrayed that much worse then they showed in other series. They've never treated AI with respect (Remember the dilithium mines full of EMH Mark 1s? How they wanted to take Data's daughter?

As for the Romulans, they've always been dicks to the federation, I'm not surprised people would object to helping them after Utopia Planitia was destroyed.

[Raven Night]

I may be nitpicking here, but here it goes...some of my problems with the show canon...

1) Furniture can't likely be heirlooms (at least not the originals from the series in the house) since the house burned down.
2) Lack of replicators (and it seems poor people in the Federation, on Earth of all places).
3) Homeless Romulans living in squalor, though the Empire likely had dozens if not thousands of worlds after Romulus destruction.
4) Borg likely killed by being ejected into space.

...Just to name a few. There are more, but those annoy me the most.

[Darkthunder]

I may be nitpicking here, but here it goes...some of my problems with the show canon...

1) Furniture can't likely be heirlooms (at least not the originals from the series in the house) since the house burned down.
2) Lack of replicators (and it seems poor people in the Federation, on Earth of all places).
3) Homeless Romulans living in squalor, though the Empire likely had dozens if not thousands of worlds after Romulus destruction.
4) Borg likely killed by being ejected into space.

...Just to name a few. There are more, but those annoy me the most.

One of the things that annoyed me the most, was the senseless killing of characters like Maddox or Hugh, as well as the maiming of Icheb. I understand things are bleak in the Federation of 2399, but the random killing of Federation citizens (Maddox and Icheb) or allied characters (Hugh) seems a bit overkill. Add to that, using Picard's irumodic syndrome (which was supposedly a made-up plot device by Q in All Good Things), had no real lasting impact, as Picard was "revived" as an android immediately after his physical body died. This is about as useful as the death of Alt-Kirk in Into Darkness, followed by his immediate revival using magic blood... If you're gonna kill off characters, only to bring them back again, make it more meaningful.

• If memory serves, Robert and Rene burned to death in a barn fire. And that occured in 2370, nearly 30 years ago. House was either untouched by the fire, or rebuilt since.
• Robert Picard and his wife were very anti-replicator when they still lived in the Picard Estate. Jean-Luc likely had one installed so he could have easy access to replicating his most famous beverage.
• There's a tie-in novel for the Romulans who lived with Picard at his Chateau, which also explains a lot of why many Romulans live the way they do.
• This point I actually agree with. We've seen Borg operate in the vacuum of space without "dying". Simply ejecting them from the cube would likely render them mostly harmless, but not dead. But the way Seven re-acted when they were ejected, implies that they died.

And then there's the ridiculous episode, where Picard and crew visit the "Vegas" type planet, with Picard having to take on a "fake" French accent. Patrick Stewart is British, but Jean-Luc has always been French. No need to fake the accent, have Sir Stewart practice on a more probable accent instead of the overdone fake one.

[Tuskin38]

I may be nitpicking here, but here it goes...some of my problems with the show canon...

1) Furniture can't likely be heirlooms (at least not the originals from the series in the house) since the house burned down.
2) Lack of replicators (and it seems poor people in the Federation, on Earth of all places).
3) Homeless Romulans living in squalor, though the Empire likely had dozens if not thousands of worlds after Romulus destruction.
4) Borg likely killed by being ejected into space.

...Just to name a few. There are more, but those annoy me the most.

Darkthunder covered 1) and 3) already, I agree with his points.

2) What lack of replicators? We see replicators in Picard's house (it's even used in an episode), in Riker's kitchen (same model as Picard's), on La Sirena (used on screen), and on Mars (also used on screen). We didn't see any poor people on earth.

The Borg were semi-unconscious and violently thrown out of the cube, I doubt they'd survive that with their broken necks and such. They had zero time to prepare for the explosive decompression. I imagine the Borg in First Contact probably had their personal shields enabled and had prepared to leave the ship.

(which was supposedly a made-up plot device by Q in All Good Things)

Nothing in AGT says or implies that what Q showed Picard was made up.

I understand things are bleak in the Federation of 2399

Nothing in Picard shows the Federation as 'bleak'. We didn't see any Federation worlds other than Earth, and Earth looked fine.

but the random killing of Federation citizens (Maddox and Icheb) or allied characters (Hugh) seems a bit overkill.

All of those deaths had plot significance, there was nothing random about them.

[Raven Night]

I understand I may be messing with the bull here, but I tend to disagree with some points made, and find some other points more dismissive than compelling.

It was insinuated that Raffi did not have a replicator and was living in squalor...she even derided Picard for living in luxury while she suffered in poverty and abused drugs and alcohol. I suppose it is possible she had a replicator, but then why was she living the way she was if that is the case?

I feel the violent decompression point is an excuse that follows a mistake...a way to excuse a pretty huge canon error. Nothing in the actual script for the episode indicates that they died from injuries...it indicates...or more accurately insinuates they died from exposure to space (based on her scripted reaction)....which has already been shown to be impossible. One could argue they needed time to adjust, but then that is an excuse to follow a mistake...with no canon support.

Now, one could argue she was mad that the collective activation effort was somehow disrupted by the ejection, but I think it is pretty likely they wanted viewers to believe the Borg were killed by the ejection.

Not sure where the barn fire information comes from, the sources I read indicated it was a house fire, killed all three of them, and almost destroyed the house. It was rebuilt some time after 2371 (fire) but before 2383 (for first harvest of 2386, vintage of 2399).

If that is incorrect, so be it. If the house survived than obviously so did the furniture.

And yes, I hated the Maddox and dress up episodes. And the idea that "despair" destroyed the Borg in a cube. And the McGuffin repair device.

[Tuskin38]

It was insinuated that Raffi did not have a replicator and was living in squalor

Nothing in the episode implies that. There's no physical evidence of it either. We don't see the inside of her house.

But we're probably going to have to agree to disagree here.

[Raven Night]

Nothing in the episode implies that. There's no physical evidence of it either. We don't see the inside of her house.

But we're probably going to have to agree to disagree here.

Fair enough. I could certainly be completely wrong on all of my points, the show certainly has it's merits and has had some great scenes. I just feel it has some rather glaring flaws that could have been easily fixed.

Some are due to laziness or lack of time (or both)...the Federation fleet comes to mind. Some are due to lack of concern about canon. Some are just poor writing.

I feel that quite a few points of the storyline are not earned, and others are not explored though they should have been...like Picard fighting for droid rights only to become a droid in the end. That should have been explored more IMO.

The way Picard was treated by Starfleet. The way he essentially becomes a back seat character to most of the storyline. Romulan Legolas. I could go on.

TNG certainly had it's flaws. And Discovery demonstrates that even with a completely new cast you can still have issues. But this was NOT a series they could screw up. TNG is remembered as the benchmark for modern TV Star Trek.

The Mandalorian proves that when people love and respect the source material they can create something special. Star Trek has been lacking that love, in my opinion, for too long now.

[Tuskin38]

Yeah, the fleet it was a lack of time. According to John Eaves he was asked for ship designs very last minute, and they only gave him an hour or so to polish a few he had submitted before and send them to them. Like he didn't design them from scratch for the finale, the designs he had were originally for earlier in the season (and were refined from unused designs he did back in the mid 2000s for another project) but that story was cut.

So it sounds like the choice to include the fleet in the final episode was a last minute decision. I wonder what the original intent for the season finale was then.

The show runner is a big Star Trek fan. I don't think disrespect was intended but he wanted to deconstruct the franchise. But something being disrespectful is also an individual opinion, so yeah.

[Raven Night]

I wouldn't go so far as to say they disrespected the original or Trek as a whole, but I will say I feel they didn't give it it's proper due.

The deconstruct is the thing...that makes me cringe in most cases. DS9 comes to mind...originally Behr intended to disrupt the standard Star Trek formula, where everyone gets along. In a way his intent was the same. But in my opinion he did it just enough without violating the base premise of Trek.

I concede that the show was never as popular as TNG, but frankly neither was any series, even TOS (except, perhaps, in reruns). Now the show has a much more faithful following...a testament, IMO, to it's proper respect for the franchise.

This is where Picard has fallen short. The story they told seems to be stretched out too much, is far too disorganized, and littered with silly decisions.

It's not terrible, it's not even bad...but I would present the opinion that it fails to reach the level of even DS9.

I fault the method of the deconstruction and the haphazard storytelling. The show has just enough fan service to keep it acceptable IMO, but far from engaging.

[Tuskin38]

New season 2 trailer
https://ca.startrek.com/videos/watch-star-trek-picard-season-2-first-look