Credits for okudagrams.com

[JoeRalat]

Hey Guys this is Joe Ralat from Okudagrams.com. I am happy to see that my Okudagrams are used for your Bridges, I have seen MSD, A a few display graphics used, but please when you post any artwork with them..Please put my credit on them. I put a lot of hard work into the graphics..So that the graphics look just like the ones in the show. So the credit is JoeRalat www.Okudagrams.com. I ask that any Admin or Mod can make sure that people do this.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

[Mark]

Hey Jose, welcome to the boards. About the MSD, I asked you for permission before adding it to the model, and when the bridge is released you will be credited in the readme. I cant really do much more then that without putting a logo on the texture.

[JoeRalat]

I understand that when it is used with the model..That you will have all the info with the model set..My thing is when people post shots of the Bridge. I would like to have the credit put on them.. I don't everyone to think that this person or that person did all the work. You have to understand that I spend many hours on some graphics. Like I said in the past. I am more them happy to let people use them. But please post any credit on artwork that use my work.

Thanks.

[bsilver2988]

don't you think that's asking a lil bit much dude???

[JoeRalat]

No..I work very hard on my work. Now someone will cut up a image and have people think that it was made by that person. Its not too much to ask to put credit on the work that I have done. I was more then nice and gave Mark the ok to use the graphics. I know that good textures are hard to get and I wanted to help out.

[bsilver2988]

i know..but it's not like they're not giving you credit..you're getting credit the same as everyone else who contributes to a bridge.  in the readme.  only the modeler gets special credit by having himself be the one to actually post the pic.

[Mark]

someone will cut up a image and have people think that it was made by that person

I have never claimed credit for that MSD, and I have been completly open about where I source my textures from. In fact the only post in this thread that has a clear image of your MSD also has this above it:

7: Added new MSD based on Jose Ralats lakota MSD

I completly agree that artists should be credited for their work, and thats what I have done and shall always continue to do. However asking for me to credit you for every screenshot of the bridge is not realistic, you are not the only artist who has contributed to this bridge.. off the top of my head I can list

Viper - Original Model
Jesse - Original Retexture
TiM - Captains Chair
Tobias Weimann - Various LCARS
Jose Ralat - MSD Components
Simmo - Some remnant lcars

And there are more. Crediting all these people every time we post a picture is not feasable, thats why there is a credits section in the readme for the download.

[JoeRalat]

I understand Mark. I never said that you claimed credit. You have even made the point to tell the people, where the graphics came from. I thank you for that. But my understanding from you was that. The image would be use with the model only. Also that the image would be used in the original state unmodified. Any edit version must have credit on it. Also any renders done with it must have credit on it. I thought that was the understanding.

I will explain the reason for this. You post the model. A model can't been seen without a program like 3D Max Or Lightwave...etc So who every renders the model will most likely have the information with it. So if one person downloads it and take it to other site to host it..then another..then another. Not a .Jpg. Someone can download it. Edit it in paint. Post it on another site...Another person can view it..Download and edit...And its not too hard.. So after two website and two edits. All the info is gone. People are more likely to keep the credit info on a model then on a 2D Image.

Now lets say this. Someone made this Super Kick ass Model. Something like Seanr Models. I took the model added some of the Okudagrams that I have made.. Now I took the model to Scifi-meshes or another 3D site. I post this Super Render...No credit on the image...Now most people have not seen Seanr Model. How many people will assume that I did the model and Texture? Oh and by the way..I am not trying to pick on anyone here.. Just want you to have a better understanding on how I feel on this. I love and respect all the work that is done here. I know that you guys just want to have fun. I am all for that.

But I do spend hours sometimes Days on one graphics. Please Consider that when you edit or post renders with the work that I have done.

Thanks.

[Mark]

You post the model. A model can't been seen without a program like 3D Max Or Lightwave...etc So who every renders the model will most likely have the information with it. So if one person downloads it and take it to other site to host it..then another..then another. Not a .Jpg. Someone can download it. Edit it in paint. Post it on another site...Another person can view it..Download and edit...And its not too hard.. So after two website and two edits. All the info is gone. People are more likely to keep the credit info on a model then on a 2D Image.

The model does not get released in an editable format, they are intended for usage in-game not CGI rendering.

Now lets say this. Someone made this Super Kick ass Model. Something like Seanr Models. I took the model added some of the Okudagrams that I have made.. Now I took the model to Scifi-meshes or another 3D site. I post this Super Render...No credit on the image...Now most people have not seen Seanr Model. How many people will assume that I did the model and Texture?

The render you have just hypothetically posted at ScifiMeshes is the end product, the images that I am posted on these boards are to show progress to the end product, so your example isnt comparable. When we do post the end product it comes with full credits.

Any renders done with it must have credit on it. I thought that was the understanding.

In that case I will have no choice but to delete all images from this thread, and also inform people through the readme that any screenshots they take must have your credit added to it, which is not only unfair on other users but unfair on all the other authors who have contributed.

[Legacy]

Hi Joe, I really understand your point of view, and it's a standard procedure for me and everyone i know, when taking renders, but well, those aren`t artwork renders, they are game screenshots, which have no editing or crediting printed, simply because they are taking straight from the game engine.
Otherwise there should be a long list of credits at the bottom of all image listing activision as game producer, all stock artists for the ingame models and then so on.

Well, i hope you understand that everyone has put hours of work in ANY bridge in this game, and that we try as hard as we can to get any permissions to use any stuff from other people, simply by the fact we don't like when people does that with our work.
I have spent as much time as you do with your graphics, with models that are widely used on this and other games, and i consider that been credited in a readme is more than enough when you consider that this is a ingame model, and that's the only way to be credited in a ingame use.

There's no way to put credits in the textures themselves, and no way at all to control the screenshots people will take and use whatever they want. What i mean is that what you requested, to mark artwork is over any standard in game modding communities, even if i can understand what you mean.
Noone here is claiming to have done all the work on the ingame models, specially bridges, which people know take the work of several people to be ported.

We decided to use your graphics because we consider they to be the best available to be used, and that represent all the respect we have for the effort you put at them, but that does not mean we cannot reproduce the same stuff; it simple means that we consider your work great and that it would save us a lot of time and effort recreating something that you already done in a very good way.

Again, I must say that i respect your position as much as your work, and that none of us would like to be forced to stop using the great stuff you did over the time because some differences about how credits must be given.
If you keep your position, it'll be completely respected, and we will accept it, even if it means that we must stop using the work you created.
Otherwise, we are open to discuss a possible arrange that would suit both opinions.

Best
LC

[JoeRalat]

I still feel the way I feel. But I do think that things can be worked out. Again I am not trying to pick on Glenn or   "Captain Elgy" on my forum. I be more then happy to let you use the graphics that are on the models. Now the graphics on the models must be in the original state. To me that what I have the most problems with. I feel that a  edit version takes away from what I have done. I would like any renders or "Screenshots" as some people may call it to have the credit I have ask for. ( That is for models or photos with Edit versions of my work.)

The problem that I see with my work has already happen. I talked about Seanr work in the last post. I have worked with him. Some of my very first artwork was used on Seanr Enterprise-A model. You can see it on his site. That was about 5-7 years ago. He too made sure to add a read me file to his model that he made public.

Now..about a week ago. I went to a Fanfilm forum. Hey guess what no credit info on the renders that this person made. Not for me and not for Seanr. Once people start to edit the graphics and models (Seanr model) people start to feel that its there work. Because of all the time put into it.


This is a pm that I got from Mark on the Nebula MSD.

"That seems completly understandable to me, however let me just clear up a few points before I let this rest:
1) The project is completly not-for-profit and free to the public, and you will be credited (as you have been in other projects) for your work.
2) The MSD will be edited alot for its intended use, and additionally it will be cut down to a 1024x1024 maximum size.
3) If you wish it I can bake the textures into the model we release, meaning that nobody would be able to edit the textures and gain access to the textures using photoshop etc.

Thats all I wanted to let you know, thanks for hearing me out on this."

My question was: Why was the graphics you used not "Bake" in the first place?


Also can you UV Map the texture on the models.  UV Mapping in max is where you can resize, move around a texture on a part of the model. So the texture can fit better. It may be called some else in the way you edit models. Can't you just resize the graphic so that it can fit the sections you wanted textured, but crop out the credit informations that I have put on it?


Again I think we can work things out. Sorry about all the this crazy stuff. I did not want to turn this thread to an issue about credit..etc. I don't ask a lot from people..no money..nothing crazy. Just a little credit.. That all.

Thanks again guys for your time.

[Mark]

I will PM you about this.

[Mark]

for anyone who is interested in seeing the continuation of this please visit either:

http://www.joseralat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=806

or

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/sfm-support-forum/26725-credit-rules-2d-artist.html

[Billz]

He is being totally unreasonable. Why should his name be in pictures of a bridge model he did not make? I know the MSD is based off his work but asking for credits to be put into every picture that shows even a small corner of the MSD while focusing (used that as an example) on something else is just petty.

And also, he stole my avatar from here on and used it as his on Sci-Fi meshes.com  :arms:

[Mark]

maybe you could explain that to the guys over there  :lol:

for now it seems to be sorted

[Jb06]

And also, he stole my avatar from here on and used it as his on Sci-Fi meshes.com  :arms:

lol i noticed that. i do not see this guys problem. he has been credited clearly in the readme's. what else does he want???? i for one not am putting 'MSD created by Joe Ralat' in every flamin screenshot. if he's already been created in the readme's. i think thats enough. its not like the msd's are the big parts of the bridge. its the bridge model itself. i think the people who created the bridge models are more important than the textures in it.

[MickJo]

Mark has stated the affair is settled jb06, its best to just leave it now.

[Jb06]

sorry i was writing before he posted it so i only saw it when i posted mine.

[Mark]

 :lol: well the excelsior refit will still be in kobayashi maru 1.0 and hopefully I will be releasing it seperately some time after that.

Im locking this thread now.