Origin Of The Borg?

[admiral homer]

lol good job you didnt finish it. I have and my god what a load of s**t. I just dont know what to think of the whole v'ger thing being the origin of the borg. Some days i think it is a good idea then other days i think it is a really bad idea. Jesus i just dont know!

[Blackrook32]

lol good job you didnt finish it. I have and my god what a load of s**t. I just dont know what to think of the whole v'ger thing being the origin of the borg. Some days i think it is a good idea then other days i think it is a really bad idea. Jesus i just dont know!

lol, it will be alright ;) -BR32

[UPD Equinox]

Legacy was a very bad bad bad bad bad game. Naughty paramount!

[Nebula]

Legacy was a very bad bad bad bad bad game. Naughty paramount!

paramount? They have nothing to do with trek anymore....

[Blackrook32]

Legacy was a very bad bad bad bad bad game. Naughty paramount!

You forgot to add a couple of more "bad's" in there, lol. I played the game. I wasn't impressed.
The Borg seem so lame in it, as does everything else...

Thanks for reminding me to delete it from my hard drive ;) -BR32

[admiral homer]

Lol i should to. Legacy reminds me far to much of shattered universe that crap flight combat game that was ment to be the return of the mirror universe. Lol yeah right and both games are terrible. All i say is bring back activision. I miss the days of elite force and armada (the first one). Anyhoooooooo back on track. The borg deserve so much more than crap star trek story writers. They need some tlc and some creativity not total stupidity. I love the story for dark frontier in voyagers 5h season. But how did the queen come back and why did no one explain it? The only thing i can think of that is an explination is that she died in a past and a different time so that time would no longer exist. Which means that the queen would never of gone back in time and would still exist in the 24th century. Or could there be more than 1 queen?

[Blackrook32]

The only thing i can think of that is an explination is that she died in a past and a different time so that time would no longer exist. Which means that the queen would never of gone back in time and would still exist in the 24th century. Or could there be more than 1 queen?

That would appear to be the case. Considering the Queen was killed in "First Contact". Since the Borg do use Cloning aside from Assimilation, to replenish the ranks? It would not be a reach for the Collective to copy "Perfection". Though Susanna Thompson did a good take on the Borg Queen in Voyager. Any excuse to see the excellent Alice Krige reprise her role as "the Queen" is always a welcome one:P -BR32

[UPD Equinox]

LOL well i've seen a total of like 3 episodes of voyager. I cant wait for them to release the new Voyager DVD sets. Yeah I have to admit that Alice Krige did an awesome job of the queen! So beautifully dark.

[Blackrook32]

LOL well i've seen a total of like 3 episodes of voyager. I cant wait for them to release the new Voyager DVD sets. Yeah I have to admit that Alice Krige did an awesome job of the queen! So beautifully dark.

Dude, I have all of Star Trek: Voyager on DVD. Seasons 1-7. They have been out for quite sometime- In the States, anyway. Though your right about Alice Krige. . .  She does "kick ass" as the Borg Queen -BR32

[Weasel]

Not to mention she was pretty hot. I'd assimilate her ass-ymetrically....

[Writeall]

Lol i should to. Legacy reminds me far to much of shattered universe that crap flight combat game that was ment to be the return of the mirror universe. Lol yeah right and both games are terrible. All i say is bring back activision. I miss the days of elite force and armada (the first one). Anyhoooooooo back on track. The borg deserve so much more than crap star trek story writers. They need some tlc and some creativity not total stupidity. I love the story for dark frontier in voyagers 5h season. But how did the queen come back and why did no one explain it? The only thing i can think of that is an explination is that she died in a past and a different time so that time would no longer exist. Which means that the queen would never of gone back in time and would still exist in the 24th century. Or could there be more than 1 queen?

I always find it interesting...

Dorothy and I have done a lot in the Trek universe, and really care
about the quality of the stories we tell.  We're professional writers
who are paid for our work, and our expertise. 

From my understanding I would have to say, I can't see many
other writers on these forums who have been published or sold material
for Star Trek. 

Its easy to be a critic...especially when you're anonymous over the
internet.  What's not so easy, is putting yourself out there, and working
within the system that is entertainment.  You can have the best script
in the world, but if its directed and implemented poorly, or things
are cut from the story, thats not always under the writers control.

As far as your critique of Legacy is concernced, its perfectly okay to
have your opinion.  However, as has been stated, much of the story was
cut and the cinematics never became reality.  You got only a sliver of
the story Dorothy and I wrote that was authorized by Paramount and
researched with the aid of Mike Okuda...as well as from the great
experience that Dorothy and I have with the franchise. 

What we wrote fits within the realm of all Canon material, and we were
encouraged to explore the "Origin of the Borg" by Paramount as well as
their connection to V'Ger as Gene himself had postulated.

What I can't understand is this.  If you are so opinionated, why don't you try and write for Star Trek.  Be part of the solution and not just some anonymous griefer.  This is what Dorothy and I do professionally.  Not as a hobby or part time flirtation, nor wishful thinking that we never actually follow through on.

We write for Star Trek, and we make positive contributions to the mythos.  So before you cast negative blanket remarks about professionals, perhaps you'll have a little more respect.

Between David Gerrold, Orson Scott Card, Joe Straczynski, 
Harlan Ellison, Gene Roddenberry, Diane Duane, Peter David and countless others... 

Dorothy and I have worked with the best. What have YOU done today?

[Weasel]

What have I done today? I've searched desperately for a new TV episode, or movie, or game from the "excellent" paid contributers from Paramount, and came up empty handed. Sadly, it's not such a great loss, as it was incredibly talented people such as yourself that have left Trek as the almost lifeless train wreck that it has become.

Thank you?

Nevertheless, what my search has reassured me, is that there are fan-based ( probably unpaid, unappreciated, and unincorporated ) projects that just may breathe new life into the Trek universe. Don't take this personally, as I do appreciate all contributions, ( professional or otherwise ) but I have much more faith in the skills and talents of the vast fan-base than I have in all of Paramount's paid professional lackeys. 

[Mark]

What have I done today? I've searched desperately for a new TV episode, or movie, or game from the "excellent" paid contributers from Paramount, and came up empty handed. Sadly, it's not such a great loss, as it was incredibly talented people such as yourself that have left Trek as the almost lifeless train wreck that it has become.

Thank you?

I think that blame sits squarely in the lap of Berman and Braga. If anything the creative staff behind Star Trek were the reason it managed to keep going as long as it did (look how much better enterprise season 4 was when Braga finally stopped interfering).

So I definately think you are barking up the wrong tree there weasel, there isnt much a writer can do if the producers decide to edit half the story out..

[Weasel]

I'd agree with much of that- I'd lay the blame on the scavengers in the boardroom, who may or may not make decisions based on dollars and cents, as opposed to maintaining artistic integrity.   

[Chris Jones]

Legacy was a very bad bad bad bad bad game. Naughty paramount!

You forgot to add a couple of more "bad's" in there, lol. I played the game. I wasn't impressed.
The Borg seem so lame in it, as does everything else...

Thanks for reminding me to delete it from my hard drive ;) -BR32

BR - Have you played any mods? I would try one called 'The Ultimate Universe'. That's mine - put together by a good team. The stock game these guys refer to did suck. I agree. We looked way beyond that...
http://www.chrisjonesgaming.net - by the way  - how are you?

[Chris Jones]

Homer - you really should think before you write things like 'crap story writers'. I can appreciate you didn't like the story as it was told in Legacy - but you need not insult the writers like that. As Derek said above, the story was seriously cut up upon release.

BC Stock, back in the day when it was released, was mighty fine. The story was in depth and solid. Derek and Dorothy laid the foundation for what the BC modding community has achieved to this day. Without that awesome story - BC might not have sold as well or been as popular. I feel you should show more respect and offer an apology to Writeall for that comment.

 You may decide to dismiss me as just a Legacy player but consider this. Open up KM and see who's maps from 2003-2004 are in there. I might still be around but Python did my head in after a while - I ventured into a big OP mod - and Legacy was just so bad out of the box that I wanted to fix it and make it real Star Trek. My team has done that. I may be on the wrong forum for talking about Legacy, but I do consider myself a BC alumni of sorts, and when I saw that comment I had to chime in.

 No disrespect to anyone on this board.

[Blackrook32]

Legacy was a very bad bad bad bad bad game. Naughty paramount!

You forgot to add a couple of more "bad's" in there, lol. I played the game. I wasn't impressed.
The Borg seem so lame in it, as does everything else...

Thanks for reminding me to delete it from my hard drive ;) -BR32

BR - Have you played any mods? I would try one called 'The Ultimate Universe'. That's mine - put together by a good team. The stock game these guys refer to did suck. I agree. We looked way beyond that...
http://www.chrisjonesgaming.net - by the way  - how are you?

Hi there, Chris- I'm fine ;)

For the record- No, I haven't played modded Star Trek: Legacy. I've seen YouTube demos of the modded game. Dealing with the stock version of the game was traumatic enough. To be honest my duties with BCFiles, along with Modding and beta testing commitments? Leaves me little time to explore the ideal further. I've seen your modification for Legacy. The mod looks very nice, I might give it a go at some point. I don't belive anyone here is slamming any efforts in Modded Star Trek: Legacy. It's just a game, I personally did not care for in it's "original" state.

But right now, I'm involved with projects for Bridge Commander that will, quite frankly blow modded Trek gaming out of the water! And you know I'm not one for "exaggeration". Five years of modding BC, and it's been a pleasure watching the community grow. And continually pushing the boundaries of this ageing game. She has much potential.



**Back On Topic** To quote the Borg Queen- "I am the Beginning and the Endi. I am one voice, that are many. . ."

Even Voyager's 7 of 9 said the Collective's memory of "Origin" was fragmentary at best. So, anything is possible. -BR32

[blaXXer]

Lol i should to. Legacy reminds me far to much of shattered universe that crap flight combat game that was ment to be the return of the mirror universe. Lol yeah right and both games are terrible. All i say is bring back activision. I miss the days of elite force and armada (the first one). Anyhoooooooo back on track. The borg deserve so much more than crap star trek story writers. They need some tlc and some creativity not total stupidity. I love the story for dark frontier in voyagers 5h season. But how did the queen come back and why did no one explain it? The only thing i can think of that is an explination is that she died in a past and a different time so that time would no longer exist. Which means that the queen would never of gone back in time and would still exist in the 24th century. Or could there be more than 1 queen?

I always find it interesting...

Dorothy and I have done a lot in the Trek universe, and really care
about the quality of the stories we tell.  We're professional writers
who are paid for our work, and our expertise. 

From my understanding I would have to say, I can't see many
other writers on these forums who have been published or sold material
for Star Trek. 

Its easy to be a critic...especially when you're anonymous over the
internet.  What's not so easy, is putting yourself out there, and working
within the system that is entertainment.  You can have the best script
in the world, but if its directed and implemented poorly, or things
are cut from the story, thats not always under the writers control.

As far as your critique of Legacy is concernced, its perfectly okay to
have your opinion.  However, as has been stated, much of the story was
cut and the cinematics never became reality.  You got only a sliver of
the story Dorothy and I wrote that was authorized by Paramount and
researched with the aid of Mike Okuda...as well as from the great
experience that Dorothy and I have with the franchise. 

What we wrote fits within the realm of all Canon material, and we were
encouraged to explore the "Origin of the Borg" by Paramount as well as
their connection to V'Ger as Gene himself had postulated.

What I can't understand is this.  If you are so opinionated, why don't you try and write for Star Trek.  Be part of the solution and not just some anonymous griefer.  This is what Dorothy and I do professionally.  Not as a hobby or part time flirtation, nor wishful thinking that we never actually follow through on.

We write for Star Trek, and we make positive contributions to the mythos.  So before you cast negative blanket remarks about professionals, perhaps you'll have a little more respect.

Between David Gerrold, Orson Scott Card, Joe Straczynski, 
Harlan Ellison, Gene Roddenberry, Diane Duane, Peter David and countless others... 

Dorothy and I have worked with the best. What have YOU done today?

Derek, I think the criticism was aimed at the product we (the buyers of Legacy) were actually given, not what you and Dorothy had planned (love to get my hands on that, btw ;) ).
So, you may understand that most of us are pretty iffy about the subject of Legacy, which was, in it released version at least, utter crap.

[UPD Equinox]

Lol i should to. Legacy reminds me far to much of shattered universe that crap flight combat game that was ment to be the return of the mirror universe. Lol yeah right and both games are terrible. All i say is bring back activision. I miss the days of elite force and armada (the first one). Anyhoooooooo back on track. The borg deserve so much more than crap star trek story writers. They need some tlc and some creativity not total stupidity. I love the story for dark frontier in voyagers 5h season. But how did the queen come back and why did no one explain it? The only thing i can think of that is an explination is that she died in a past and a different time so that time would no longer exist. Which means that the queen would never of gone back in time and would still exist in the 24th century. Or could there be more than 1 queen?

I always find it interesting...

Dorothy and I have done a lot in the Trek universe, and really care
about the quality of the stories we tell.  We're professional writers
who are paid for our work, and our expertise. 

From my understanding I would have to say, I can't see many
other writers on these forums who have been published or sold material
for Star Trek. 

Then me thinks you don't understand well enough. I for one write star trek fan fiction. And to be honest have no real wish to become embroiled the 'business' of publishing. Although the head of our writing team may well try.

Its easy to be a critic...especially when you're anonymous over the
internet.  What's not so easy, is putting yourself out there, and working
within the system that is entertainment.  You can have the best script
in the world, but if its directed and implemented poorly, or things
are cut from the story, thats not always under the writers control.

Too true, and I'm sure most of the people here would recognise that.

As far as your critique of Legacy is concernced, its perfectly okay to
have your opinion.  However, as has been stated, much of the story was
cut and the cinematics never became reality.  You got only a sliver of
the story Dorothy and I wrote that was authorized by Paramount and
researched with the aid of Mike Okuda...as well as from the great
experience that Dorothy and I have with the franchise. 

My main beef with the game was not its story (as I mentioned i havn't played enough to get ANY of the story, although as i have also mentioned I don't think taking the mystery out of the borg was in any way a good idea), It was the absolutely SHODDY gameplay. I mean the game was supposed to be celebrating 40 YEARS of Star Trek and they couldn't even do better than a game that came out more than 5 years ago. That to me is shocking and dispicable.

What we wrote fits within the realm of all Canon material, and we were
encouraged to explore the "Origin of the Borg" by Paramount as well as
their connection to V'Ger as Gene himself had postulated.

What I can't understand is this.  If you are so opinionated, why don't you try and write for Star Trek.  Be part of the solution and not just some anonymous griefer.  This is what Dorothy and I do professionally.  Not as a hobby or part time flirtation, nor wishful thinking that we never actually follow through on.

We write for Star Trek, and we make positive contributions to the mythos.  So before you cast negative blanket remarks about professionals, perhaps you'll have a little more respect.

Between David Gerrold, Orson Scott Card, Joe Straczynski, 
Harlan Ellison, Gene Roddenberry, Diane Duane, Peter David and countless others... 

Dorothy and I have worked with the best. What have YOU done today?

.
With all due respect, we've seen the 'professional' writing work come out lately and even by the industries OWN standard things are not getting better. I can understand as you mentioned before that a lot of good story writing is destroyed because of cuts made by the director and others (which I blame partly on the masses inability to sit still and watch anything for more than ten minutes without seeing something get blown up). Now, bearing that in mind, what is the insentive for the writers among us to put forth our stories or work along side other writers in an industry where your story will be totally destroyed on the big screen for all to see?

To be honest I even take issue with your argument that we 'shouldn't complain when we don't do anything to help'. Critique is not something that is reserved for only those that work in your particular field. A valid point is a valid point. It doesn't matter if I can or can't write star trek, if I my (or anybody elses) critque is valid then it should be veiwed as such and not disregarded simply because you don't like the implication.

[Blackrook32]

I always find it interesting...

Dorothy and I have done a lot in the Trek universe, and really care
about the quality of the stories we tell.  We're professional writers
who are paid for our work, and our expertise. 

From my understanding I would have to say, I can't see many
other writers on these forums who have been published or sold material
for Star Trek.   

Its easy to be a critic...especially when you're anonymous over the
internet.  What's not so easy, is putting yourself out there, and working
within the system that is entertainment.

We write for Star Trek, and we make positive contributions to the mythos.  So before you cast negative blanket remarks about professionals, perhaps you'll have a little more respect.

Between David Gerrold, Orson Scott Card, Joe Straczynski, 
Harlan Ellison, Gene Roddenberry, Diane Duane, Peter David and countless others... 

Dorothy and I have worked with the best. What have YOU done today?

I don't know about anyone else? I wasn't going to say anything at first. But, I beg to differ. Your right. I know I've been modding for Bridge Commander for five years. I haven't received a "dime" for the modifications I've done for free. And given them "freely" to the general public. That "OUR" devotion to trek and the franchise? So yea, We have "put ourselves out there". Even if it is a hobby, Without making profit. Can you say the same?

Efforts like ours is what keeps the franchise alive. Despite the best efforts of "Bermaga". I found your post just a tad condescending. You come into our community hurling insults? Because, were not "paid professionals"? Got news for ya buddy. Were definitely "NOT" getting a pay check. But the quality of mods this community now enjoys? Surpasses the original game. Which I believe they actually got paid for?

And to be honest. I've seen better offerings from Star Trek Fan made vids, than from anything a "professional" got paid for.

Perhaps you should show a little bit more respect, When coming into someone else's house.

-BR32