a question for me and any other newbie.

[StarTrekMike]

I know this had been brought up in the past in all the other forums (BCU, Filefront) but I have never really been able to find a answer that seemed to help.

  When running ships like the TOS Connie mod pack and P$ycho's Excelsior mod pack I cannot seem to avoid major problems with the models when they take damage. Both seem to lose the warp nacelles if any damage comes to the secondary hull at all.

  I have seen some say that if you delete the Vox.nif files that it would stop that...but it never seems to work for me...in fact in the Excelsior mod pack it even generates a error report in the data/models folder saying something to the effect of 2 sided triangles or something of that nature.

  Is there a definitive way to stop the ships from just "losing" parts or is this a actual model error that cannot be stopped without redoing the model itself?

  I know that I don't have any problems most ships...mostly the Excelsior and TOS connie packs.

 
  I don't know anything about modding and I am not whining or anything...I just wanna know if there is anything I can do that might work.


  Thanks so much in advance.

 
   Mike

[MLeo]

Actually, this question has been answered a couple of times in the past.

It's model problems (though vox files can also cause these).
The exact cause is currently eluding me, but it's to do with either (or both) seperate models (or model groups) or intersecting triangles or triangles that are disconnected.

I'll ask someone who will know about this to elaborate.

[StarTrekMike]

Thank you for the reply and that you are going to try to get more information.

  perhaps if this issue can be worked out than one of the moderators could post a sticky that could be used as a tool for other modelers so that this kind of thing can be adressed.

  Folks like DJ Curtis could chime in...his models seem to take damage flawlessly.

  (Don't take this as negative commentary...I am just trying to find a way to help.)

  Thanks again.

[Nighthawk]

in models like the DomBB, for example, there seems to be duplicated faces when they are not needed.
a complete re-work of the models sohuld fix that, but in the lighter case, there's just a welding problem. say, in max, you can select all the vertices and apply a welding with 0.001 threshold. that should fix them. in the scripting side, you might want to adjust the damage values so the model doesn't even get damaged, in case you don't know how to model.

we have to write a N00b modder holy bibble with anything we know they will ask about such as this issue, torpedo textures, plugins, sounds, bridge crews and some others.

[StarTrekMike]

I like that idea...the only problem is that not everyone has access to modeling software or the money to buy them.

  I would love to learn how to make models...I just have no idea where to start.

  Mike

[moed]

Yep, it's definitely a model mesh problem.

What's really frustrating is that in the case of P$ycho's Excelsior's, the Repulse model ( the non-refitted Excelsior) this problem doesn't seem to exist but on the Lakota model it does??!!

[Legacy]

Mleo is right, the trouble happens when the vertexes in a model or object in a model are not welded.
P81 always forgot to do so, so almost any of his models (i think the excelsior pack uses a p81 model) do have damaging issues.
See, this is not a n00b error (i would hardly define Rick as a n00b), but it affects experienced modellers too.
When you export a model as .3ds from a newer max to get it at max 3, the faces are separated into the mesh along the smoothing groups, because .3ds does not support smoothing groups, so, when imported again at max 3, the file is all sliced into parts.

The 2 sided that the vox file shows are another issue that may cause errors when damaging.
Basically it means one of the faces in the model can be see by it`s backface, which is rendered cull. This makes the game unable to calculate the exact volume of the object and then damage it.

Last thing that can cause damage errors are overlapping faces and opposing faces with no width along them.

Only way to fix those is to actually open the model and fix it, and sometimes do a remodelling.
Can't tell it`s something any of us would likely to do, and would require a good deal of work, specially if done at milkshape.

As for the n00b bible, i wish i had time to write it like Mleo did with the BSODs but life is not that nice ATM and i havn`t it.

[StarTrekMike]

I guess we will just have to wait for a good set of models for the Excelsior and the refit to come out without the error.

  I hear that the TOS pack that is due to come out fairly soon will not have the errors the plague the older one...I hope that is true indeed.

  Thanks for the responses.

  Mike