Author Topic: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.  (Read 1407 times)

Offline King Class Scout

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JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« on: July 17, 2009, 01:33:29 PM »
while I work on something else, i let my mind walk over what I'm currently working with.  in this case, it came up on a what if.

What if: the Mirror Universe got a visit from Nero as well?

allready a timeline, histories, and TE JJ's have popped up in my mind.  to keep with the JJverse, even small details from the mirror verse changed.

anybody care to throw out some ideas for the mirror JJverse?
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Offline Ryles

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2009, 06:54:30 PM »
I'd think that in the Mirror Universe, Nero would more likely be the "good" guy... so flip flop most of the story to make the humans the aggressors.

When the Terran Empire fell, the Romulans took advantage of the moment and seized Re-Unification on their own terms :) Romulan military science, now with access to the considerable mental abilities of the Vulcans, makes progress in leaps and bounds. This is all great for the Romulans... but the cost to the Vulcans is very high. They are a subjugated species, beaten, abused. Think sort of how the Remans were treated combined with what the Romulans did to the Andorian telepaths in Enterprise. Vulcan "seers" are able to detect the changes to the Hobus Star which will lead to its immanent explosion and armed with this knowledge, the Romulans start a crash program to develop a technological counter to the threat.

Unfortunately, during final testing of the device an accident at the facility where the device was being assembled unleashed a black hole which destroyed the planet (Vulcan).

The only viable device remains onboard the Military Transport Vessel Narada, which was carrying an early prototype to Romulus for further study by the Tal'shiar. Incidentally, the device is HUGE, which is what neccessited the conversion of the Narada from a deep space mining vessel to begin with... When she arrives at Romulus, The Praetor dispatches Nero to the fleet yards to have his ship speedily upgraded, going as far to give him the Sword (from the Empty Chair) to convey the importance of this. Nero is now the only hope of stopping the Super Nova.

However, as the Narada prepares to use the technology she comes under attack by a small, but powerful fighter ship. The Jellyfish (possibly given a more sinister name) under the command of Emperor-in-Exile Spock (who had been fighting a guerilla war since he was forced to flee Earth) is hell bent on stopping the Romulans for using any technology he feels could be used to further subjugate the remaining Vulcans, and for revenge. This part doesn't have to entirely make sense, sort of like the plot holes in the JJ verse. Spock's old, and a bit nuts... so we just roll with it. Anyway, his attack causes both his ship and the narada to be pulled into the black hole and sent back in time.

When the Narada pops in, the Kelvin immediately opens fire. Unprepared, and still reeling from Spock's attack, the Narada takes significant damage. Believing the Narada to be disabled, Captain George Kirk - who was promoted to the position following the assassination of the Kelvin's previous commander - contacts the Narada and orders her surrender.

Nero refuses, and attempts to disable the Kelvin's weapons while bringing her under tow with a tractor beam. The rest of the scene plays out like it did in the movie, with the Kelvin ramming the Narada and the escape by shuttlecraft. Oh, and George, simply LOVES Tiberious for his son's name... but his wife wants James instead.

Young Kirk behaves about the same as his counter part, only he's more arrogant and cruel. Spock's about the same... However, while he gets beaten by Vulcan children because of his human mother its far less public, infact, the children fear reprisals because by this time Vulcan has been subjugated by the Terrans.

Both Eventually make it to Star Fleet. Kirk cheats on the Kobayashi Maru... and...

Nero and his crew escape from the Klingons, destroying 47 Klingon cruisers. Realising that he has altered the time line, possibly to the detriment of the Romulan Star Empire, Nero sets course to Vulcan. His plan is to use the ships mining equipment to extract a rare ore to rearm the mirror Red Matter technology, he then intends to use it to eliminate the Hobus star and then use the black hole to go forward in time to fix the timeline. (either way, if he fails, Romulus is safe)

Starfleet sends a small fleet to Vulcan to eliminate Nero. Terran technology has advanced almost identically to the other universe, only all the ships have the neat Terran Empire hull markings and are designed a bit more aggressively (more weapons.)

And thats all I can think of right now...

Offline King Class Scout

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2009, 09:38:02 PM »
well, someone reads Diane Duane.

even the Terran Empire knows who the Romulans are.  the minute Nero shows, it's full steam ahead, as the TE remembers how the romulans in the Mirrorverse handed them their asses once, and won't let it happen again!  they pull the same trick on Nero that the JJers did, and, instead of the TE disintegrating by the TMP era, they've conquered the entire quadrant (the TE uses the Red Matter and drill to wipe the T'Khasi (Vulcan's self-name) off the face of the galaxy to keep them fully under their thumb)

by TNG era, many worlds are barriered by the Terran empire.  the Bajorans have the Cardassians as slaves (in an even worse state than the oldverse), and are COOPERATING with the TE (for their survival).  which means easy access to the Gamma quadrant.  they outdo the founders (who they torture as hard as they did the Tholians), nd get the loyalty of the Jem'Hadar.  they waste the vorta, though.

all this comes together for their showdown with the borg, who THEY assimilate instead of the other way around.  swiping every peice of the borg's tech from every other species.   The 8472's just sit there.

the TE swipes almost the entire galaxy, even giving the Q hell, untill the Andromedan invaders show up, and FINALLY level the playing feild.
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Offline candle_86

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 08:25:23 PM »
no in the mirrior universe the bridge looks like it was designed in the 1960's and kirk wasnt in command till 2265 so pike would be senior officer :D

Offline King Class Scout

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2009, 08:51:28 AM »
watch the original "mirror Mirror"...spock probably got assasinated before he could do anything in the JJ-TE
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Offline Daystar70

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2009, 10:52:21 AM »
One thing i liked about the new film,was it finally recognised what most scientists have come to agree is the "most likely" truth about the results of time travel..i always found the trek Temporal prime directive Absurd, you cannot police it, there's no such animal as a "correct timeline" it branches off to alternate timelines if you meddle, any time travel agency would never be sure or be capable of knowing, wether they exist in the "proper"timeline.

The Mirror universe could either be a alternate quantum reality,or a altered timeline, i favor the altered timeline theory for the simple reason the opening of "In a mirror darkly" the enterprise 2-parter with altered theme opener, clearly show the mirror universe terran empire started as a result of one changed action. instead of peacefully welcoming the vulcans in first contact, zephram cochram pulled a gun, shot the vulcan, and the humans stormed thir ship.

from there, the timeline branches off to a xenophobic earth reverse engineering (i assume) and capturing technology to build a war machine rather than a exploration fleet.

But what would really be interesting to see in JJ abrahms version,is a space seed re-dux, an excuse to bring a new actor as Khan back, for a redo of the space seed episode, but not just alter it so you replay it, add some things to it, maybe khan takes over a klingon ship the way the augments did in that enterprise episode, and he and kirk square off,or better yet, mix the wrath of khan foreshadow, have him capture a early version Reliant?

one thing i would also like to see, is kirk and carol marcus..originally julia stiles (rumored not confirmed)was talked to to cameo as carol marcus as a setup romance in the first new film. Now seeing that Kirk in JJ universe lost his dad, and has a different atitude "maybe?" on family, he can do what his shatner version did not and ;later regretted.. have a family? "not" turn his back on his son and roll over because carol asked?

another good thing about the future of his timeline, is no doubt he wont meet the same stupid fate he did in "Generations"..we could also explore spock discovering young Saavik on hellguard, assuming they take the books about it into account her mention of being half romulan was in a deleted scene i saw on youtube from wrath of khan,and in the novelizations of trek 2-3. But if something is not seen on film or tv, generally it isnt canon (shak ti died through general grievous on the ship in front of obi wan and anakin in revenge of the sith,in deleted scene, yet lucus retracted it as the canon death and her actual death was shown in the force unleashed game ,which is considered canon Lucus was the decision maker on what is ok and not before it was released, he even made them change a original princess leia/your character in force unleashed romance because he felt Han was her one and only).

Offline King Class Scout

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2009, 12:33:20 PM »
please don't give away Ep 3, I haven't seen it yet

from what I've been able to gather from the episodes and novels of the Mirror-universe, it's what's called a "crapsack world", something like the old World of Darkness.  humanity, in this dimention, is naturally 'evil' and manipulative.  playing up the "humans are B***tards" line, and would have been a deliberate Darker and edgier/hardcore version of the trek-verse (probably to take a deliberate poke at gene's utopian vision).  i took my version from a combination of the JJeffect (brighter and edgier) AND darker and edgier.

the mirror verse allready has a proponent for a "glass half full" version as well, where the vulcans said F this, and kicked the terran empire in the butt.

Purists will promptly decry any JJed reboot of space seed, causing instant flame wars.  there are allready flame wars going on over the hot rod nacelle SHIPS (see the comments for Baz's JJ Excelsior)


what I was actually thinking of is the appearance of TEJJ ships
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Baz: space is vast there[sic] legs will be tired by the time they get to the next planet

Offline Daystar70

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2009, 12:56:53 PM »
OOps sorry man! i guess it is easy to assume the star wars films have been seen by sci fi lovers. yeah i know and agree they established its like the old wod (wod online btw being made with eve online devs hired by white wolf), what i meant was that the way they retconned the results of time tampering by making it result in  an alternate timeline (well this has been done in yesterday's enterprise)but this time teh alternate timeline was not "something you can correct"by sending back agents from the future and for example, stopping neros assault on the uss Kelvin. the new rules follow modern timetravel theories and basically if theyre consistent ,and trek seldom is unfortunetly, would mean that time travel tampering is not harmful and would require no policing by agencies, it would only benefit the person tampering if he created an ideal timeline he wanted to stick around in (which totally actually is in conflict with the whole point of the year of hell 1 and 2 with the Krenims goals).

The overacting "everyone good is bad etc" of the mirror universe isn't consistent either .."smiley" o brian, the mirror Daxes(both), the mirror jennifer sisko, examples of not changing, theyre nature is still "good" whcih leads me to believe its enviroment based not the universes flip nature, but that is just my opinion.

Offline King Class Scout

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2009, 01:08:07 PM »
you forgot Mirror Vic Fontaine, who was a real person instead of a hologram :P

one thing that will probably not change is that even the JJverse will have a Section 31, who are probably kicking themselves EXTREMELY hard for not catching Nero in time.  they'll be EXTRA vigilant, now.

let's see how long it takes for some hack writer to have spock really screw the timeline by warning EVERYBODY about the borg a century ahead of time :P
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Me: mine [my bridges] would probably be simple to get the characters to use.  the only person that sits is the captian.
Baz: space is vast there[sic] legs will be tired by the time they get to the next planet

Offline Daystar70

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2009, 01:14:12 PM »
Section 31 i personally love, but there's apparently a huge controversy among trek purists that gene would never have allowed thir existance, but heres a little true story many don't know:

When working on the wrath of khan, because star trek the motion picture failed to meet expectations, they hired different writer and producer and after being argumentative with them to much, they pushed gene out of the way as a consultant and he had almost nothing to do with what ended up "wrath of khan".

ironic eh? that's like how someone else directed empire strikes back and that was considered the best wars film, when someone other than the creator leaps in seems they make better stuff.

Gene's views of utopia will NEVER happen, and Ds9 finally started to "somewhat" portray a more realistic behind the smiles view of the dirt that keeps the pretty foundation going in the Federation.


Offline Lionus

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2009, 04:01:24 PM »
What I would love to see is more Ferengis and Klingons interacting with each other. (remember Quark marrying a Klingon noblewoman?)  Hilarity will be guaranteed..
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Offline King Class Scout

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2009, 04:42:30 PM »
again, it's because of Gene's death that the universe changed.

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Baz: space is vast there[sic] legs will be tired by the time they get to the next planet

Offline Daystar70

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2009, 04:44:31 PM »
Quote
What I would love to see is more Ferengis and Klingons interacting with each other. (remember Quark marrying a Klingon noblewoman?)  Hilarity will be guaranteed..

Did You know in Star trek online, Worf has married Grilka, the klingon quark was mated to? i was reading the online ttrek road to 2409 series, and worf talks about her in an interview with jake sisko.  not sure how canon STO is considered by paramount but, they seem to be a major support of what cryptic is doing so..

Offline Daystar70

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2009, 04:53:12 PM »
Quote
let's see how long it takes for some hack writer to have spock really screw the timeline by warning EVERYBODY about the borg a century ahead of time cheeky

ahh..but..would he really be altering an already uncertain timeline? you can't screw up an an already altered timeline, his information would simply " Add a new dynamic" to a uncertain future..i doubt the temporal prime directive applies to an altered timeline, what really REALLY creeps me out though?

Old spock offered to stay and help "repopulate"the vulcans so young spock can be off with kirk..can u imagine this image---

New vulcan colony, many young female vulcans are told they will be doing the "logical thing" and helping to have lots of babies to repopulate the race--

they get mentally prepared for the task, and in walks...

Old wrinkly Spock ,named getting um..worked up..as he says " The Needs of the Many..."

Offline NeoSilverThorn

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2009, 05:00:02 PM »
Daystar: Please refrain from brain bleach material.  For all our sakes.

Ah, the mirror universe, where games as hard as the Prince of Persia series and I Wanna Be The Guy are fiendishly easy- no, wait, that was a story I wrote.  Never mind.

<ahem>

I think that the mirror universe is in for a very large war between the Romulan Empire and the Terran Empire.  It's the only outcome I could see coming from those circumstances.
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Offline Darkthunder

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2009, 05:01:50 PM »
Did You know in Star trek online, Worf has married Grilka, the klingon quark was mated to? i was reading the online ttrek road to 2409 series, and worf talks about her in an interview with jake sisko.  not sure how canon STO is considered by paramount but, they seem to be a major support of what cryptic is doing so..

I suppose STO should be considered more like an "unofficial canon", but still not technically non-canon.

In regards to Grilka, while she may have got married to Quark during the course of DS9, that was merely in order to get control over the House of her former husband. She divorced Quark pretty quickly afterwards. They met again during the 5th season "Looking for par'Mach in All the Wrong Places". Worf expressed a romantic interest in Grilka but was turned down to the then "dishonorable" reputation of the House of Mogh. As Ambassador to Qu'onos and "best friend" with the Chancellor of the High Council, I suppose Worf would have quite a bit higher standing within the empire by the time STO takes place.
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Offline Daystar70

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2009, 05:07:13 PM »
Quote
Daystar: Please refrain from brain bleach material.  For all our sakes.

Sorry, Did not realise Joking around was against the forum rules..i also did use any vulgarity or profanity, but i will try and remember humor
only works if someone laughs i suppose.

Offline Kirk

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2009, 06:20:33 PM »
While it may be funny, it conjures up images that one simply can't unsee.

Offline NeoSilverThorn

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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2009, 06:55:58 PM »
Quote
Daystar: Please refrain from brain bleach material.  For all our sakes.

Sorry, Did not realise Joking around was against the forum rules..i also did use any vulgarity or profanity, but i will try and remember humor
only works if someone laughs i suppose.

The trick is to use humor that isn't likely to leave someone screaming along the lines of "Oh, god, get it out of my head!"

Otherwise, feel free to crack jokes.
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Re: JJverse Mirror universe, ideas, etc.
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2009, 07:02:14 PM »
Quote
let's see how long it takes for some hack writer to have spock really screw the timeline by warning EVERYBODY about the borg a century ahead of time cheeky

ahh..but..would he really be altering an already uncertain timeline? you can't screw up an an already altered timeline, his information would simply " Add a new dynamic" to a uncertain future..i doubt the temporal prime directive applies to an altered timeline, what really REALLY creeps me out though?

Old spock offered to stay and help "repopulate"the vulcans so young spock can be off with kirk..can u imagine this image---

New vulcan colony, many young female vulcans are told they will be doing the "logical thing" and helping to have lots of babies to repopulate the race--

they get mentally prepared for the task, and in walks...

Old wrinkly Spock ,named getting um..worked up..as he says " The Needs of the Many..."
i am imagining it now
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