Author Topic: Star Trek Into Darkness - Images, Videos, Discussion, etc  (Read 36900 times)

Offline BarnesSFC

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #960 on: March 09, 2014, 06:01:36 PM »
No, I believe that it is a study model that in the JJverse was never used, while in the prime universe it's the JJprise that was never used and remained a study model.
I can actually believe that. The JJPrise in the Prime universe could have been a planned refit for the regular Connie.

Offline Nebula

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #961 on: March 09, 2014, 06:05:22 PM »
heh

neat

though it is driving me crazy because I'm sure I've seen that model before....
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Offline captain_obvious

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #962 on: March 09, 2014, 06:19:40 PM »
I can actually believe that. The JJPrise in the Prime universe could have been a planned refit for the regular Connie.

According to the novelization of jjtrek, the woman who went on to design the tos connie died on the kelvin and the guy who designed the TMP refit ended up winning the contest to design the JJprise.
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Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #963 on: March 09, 2014, 06:20:28 PM »
here is the scene, also to note, Harrison's name was Erickson early in production, Khan's name in an early draft of Space Seed was Harold Erickson


Offline BarnesSFC

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #964 on: March 09, 2014, 06:24:33 PM »
According to the novelization of jjtrek, the woman who went on to design the tos connie died on the kelvin and the guy who designed the TMP refit ended up winning the contest to design the JJprise.
Wow I never read all of that novel and never knew that.

Guess i'll have to now

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #965 on: March 09, 2014, 06:28:26 PM »
To add onto my note above early Space Seed, a later rewrite he was renamed to John Erickson.

The Into Darkness writers did their research. Guess they renamed him to Harrison so well versed fans wouldn't get it right away.

Offline Lord Tribble

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #966 on: March 09, 2014, 06:41:28 PM »
That model is likely just a place holder or a not too subtle bit of fan service. It was cut for a reason, I wouldn't read too much into it.

Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #967 on: March 09, 2014, 06:41:43 PM »
Should've kept him as John Harrison throughout imho. Leave the "Khan connection" out of the movie, and the rehashing of Wrath of Khan in the finale (albeit with role-reversal).

They could've referred to him as an augment, left over from the Eugenics Wars, possibly as part of the recovered samples stolen by Arik Soong 100 years earlier (during ENT). It didn't make much sense to have the Admiral send out a fleet of ships throughout the quadrant, to find the Botany Bay (launched some 300 years prior), for the sole purpose of designing advanced (23rd century) tech and ships. Would've been far more believable to have John Harrison as a deep cover operative within Section 31, working against Starfleet (and the Admiral).
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Offline captain_obvious

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #968 on: March 09, 2014, 07:12:53 PM »
Wow I never read all of that novel and never knew that.

Guess i'll have to now

I never read it lol.  I think I picked it up from here tbh...
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Offline BarnesSFC

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #969 on: March 09, 2014, 07:33:50 PM »
Should've kept him as John Harrison throughout imho. Leave the "Khan connection" out of the movie, and the rehashing of Wrath of Khan in the finale (albeit with role-reversal).

They could've referred to him as an augment, left over from the Eugenics Wars, possibly as part of the recovered samples stolen by Arik Soong 100 years earlier (during ENT). It didn't make much sense to have the Admiral send out a fleet of ships throughout the quadrant, to find the Botany Bay (launched some 300 years prior), for the sole purpose of designing advanced (23rd century) tech and ships. Would've been far more believable to have John Harrison as a deep cover operative within Section 31, working against Starfleet (and the Admiral).
I totally agree with this - John Harrison could have easily been another augment who wanted to revive Khan and the others, while working for S31 and failing just like in the movie. This would have made a more "original" movie in my opinion.

Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #970 on: March 09, 2014, 08:04:58 PM »
Should've kept him as John Harrison throughout imho. Leave the "Khan connection" out of the movie, and the rehashing of Wrath of Khan in the finale (albeit with role-reversal).

They could've referred to him as an augment, left over from the Eugenics Wars, possibly as part of the recovered samples stolen by Arik Soong 100 years earlier (during ENT). It didn't make much sense to have the Admiral send out a fleet of ships throughout the quadrant, to find the Botany Bay (launched some 300 years prior), for the sole purpose of designing advanced (23rd century) tech and ships. Would've been far more believable to have John Harrison as a deep cover operative within Section 31, working against Starfleet (and the Admiral).

Marcus wasn't expecting to find the Botany Bay.  Call it bad luck.

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Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #971 on: March 09, 2014, 08:41:30 PM »
Yeah, he didn't send people out to find, the BB, he found it by chance.

Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #972 on: March 09, 2014, 09:27:57 PM »
From Memory Alpha:
Quote
In 2258 of the alternate reality, Section 31 performed secret investigations in unexplored space for means of better defending the Federation after the destruction of Vulcan. They discovered the Botany Bay, 262 years after launch, and Khan was awoken. With the other 72 augments still in stasis under Section 31's control, he was forced to join and work for Starfleet as John Harrison.

Quote
Admiral Marcus: I took a tactical risk and I woke that bastard up, believing that his superior intelligence could help us protect ourselves from whatever came at us next. But I made a mistake. And now the blood of everybody he's killed is on my hands.

As I said; it would've been far better off to leave out the whole Khan-connection, and have John Harrison BE John Harrison. Just another augment. Only, like other augments (such as Khan), hell-bent on controlling the "lesser" humans of Earth. In both realities (TOSverse, and JJverse), the Botany Bay is discovered (Section 31/Enterprise respectively). If a different person/group finds it in the two separate realities, why would they choose to unfreeze the exact same person? Reviving Khan (in the TOSverse) was an accident (they had no knowledge of whom they were reviving before they revived him). It appears to me, that Section 31 chose to specifically revive Khan.

And by having "Harrison = Khan", they made it all the more confusing, by having a white British actor playing Khan, compared to Montalban's version who was considered a Sikh (from India). Ofcourse, the JJ comics explained Harrison's appearance as having been genetically modified to further blur his true origin from others.

I like the JJ movies (as Entertainment). But as Trek movies, they still leave much to be desired. Not the least of which being, the fact that many crucial plot details are left out of the movies, and instead added in a secondary source (comics). Harrison's origin explained in comics for example. Nero's origin and reason for hating Spock was in the comics as well.

I firmly believe that Trek's future is in television. Where writers can take their time to properly flesh out characters, tell detailed stories etc. Movies are focused on Action, Explosions, and being fast-paced. Most Trek movies (not just JJ's movies) are centered on action, and less on character development.
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Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #973 on: March 10, 2014, 01:04:30 AM »
Reviving khan wasn't an accident I believe in the episode they state his pod activated on its own first probably because he was the leader

Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #974 on: March 10, 2014, 07:53:53 AM »
...so, if you were a Starfleet Admiral in charge of a secret organization dedicated to defending the Federation from threats no matter the cost and you found a group of genetic augments, you would revive a flunky instead of the leader?

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Offline nxadam1701

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #975 on: March 10, 2014, 09:01:56 AM »
...so, if you were a Starfleet Admiral in charge of a secret organization dedicated to defending the Federation from threats no matter the cost and you found a group of genetic augments, you would revive a flunky instead of the leader?

 :funny

Offline captain_obvious

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #976 on: March 10, 2014, 10:30:33 AM »
:funny


It'd be less risky I suppose.  Get the slightly more flexible, impressionable one first before the hard-nosed leader! :P
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Offline Vortex

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #977 on: August 12, 2014, 01:37:08 PM »
I like JJ's Trek, mostly as entertainment. It's got a cool twist on the Prime Timeline as well. I think that had they used the first movie to spring the franchise back and then gone straight into a series for a couple of years before doing the second movie, they could have fleshed things out a lot better and people would have accepted it more.

Unfortunately, the studios only see the money sign and give f-all about quality story telling.

Offline hobbs

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, etc (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #978 on: October 18, 2014, 05:49:26 AM »
i know this is an old thread but...

... i was just watching this film lastnight and noticed the vengence was on display in admiral markus' (spelling?) office... i thouhgt it was a secret ship lol
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Offline Nebula

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, etc (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #979 on: October 19, 2014, 09:42:46 AM »
the best secrete is the one hidden in plain site. XD
Canon is what people argue exists on ships that don't exist.