ATTN MODDERS: Too Many Fed Ships These Days / Lack Of Variety (posts split from Screenshot thread)

[sovereign001]

I'm gonna be honest here, call me an arrogant bastard as i've heard before..

i'm posting as you've noticed a lot less, because:

a) i'm getting less satisfied with my screenshots.
b) i don't feel like doing it anymore with all the stupid stuff that went on the couple weeks ago here (the merging of the threads etc)
c) Feds, feds and feds. That's the only stuff these days that is getting released. Klingons could get a nice remastering (look at the bop i'm using, lint's way too big and it isn't an a solid texture). The Galor class that was a project, has also disappeared, the star destroyers have also disappeared, TU did the warbird which is delicious! I don't see the point of taking pictures for the coming months as good ships are just getting redone and having already six, seven or eighth almost identical versions of well-known ships. There are tons of vessels that could get a remaster:

galor
hideki
keldon
dreadnought weapon
cardassian starbase
klingon bop
klingon vorcha
klingon negh'var
romulan bop (old one)
hirogen venatic ship
jem'hadar bugship
jem'hadar battlecruiser
jem'hadar battleship
starbase 375
and so on...

When modders perhaps start on this, taking screenshots is a possibility again, but taking screenshots of the same ships again is just boring, no fun.

[mckinneyc]

Sovie I understand where you are coming from but until we learn to mod ourselves we have to live with what the other guys want to model.

But don't give up! Please! I hit a wall the other day but you'll overcome it

[sovereign001]

I'm able to model, i just don't have the time or the lust to do it. I'm working as we speak on my thesis for graphic & design and after this i'm going for master in application development. So again no time.

I hope modders will see the light some day and understand that making five versions of a connie, galaxy, sovereign or whatever isn't helpful. Yes, they look good but now i'm sitting with a dj galaxy, wiley galaxy, baz galaxy, wiley connie, baz conie + 50 other connies, soon baz sovereign, now wiley fc and nemesis sovereign, dj sovereign, etc. And to be honest, they all look beautiful but somehow, all the same.. I'm almost having a feeling that modders are doing a contest, a battle between themselve to show off. Meanwhile, we have all the same ships, with the same scripts almost etc.

The star trek galaxy has tons of alien vessels that haven't been modded yet, but it seems that it only consists out of fed ships here. There are tons of alpha, gamma, delta and beta quadrant vessel that could be modded where we can create beautiful shots from.

[DMWalsh79]

Cookie for this post Sov.  I'm in full agreement with you on this.  As great as some of these ships are the best to come out in awhile was DJ's Damar.  It was different and beautiful at the same time.  I do enjoy some of the original Fed work coming out but some remastered Alien ships or hell even new designs would be great to see.

[moed]

Yep, I know, I actually was responding to his first post at the exact same time as he was composing the reason why. It just "crossed in the mail" so to speak.

I understand Sov's reasons and agree with him mostly but... I run into those same feelings as he has myself sometimes - so what I do is try to use less seen/used ships in my screenshots for the most part. Also, you'll notice that the frequency of my posting pics aren't as much as you guys. You, Sov, & Kill have some awesome stuff but I just don't post as much because many times, I'm too caught up with just having the time to even play the game and enjoy it. On occasion, a particular scene might inspire me to decide that this is a nice place to take a screenshot so, I go ahead and set up the angles. But once again, when I have the time (which is less and less these days  ) I like to just play.

Cheers!

[Killallewoks]

For BC gameplay I'm on the Aftermath mod, really adds to the game, i'd like to see some more packs one day. Though after a hard day a couple of screenshots don't hurt. We could do with some more Alien ships though. 

[King Class Scout]

I'm gonna be honest here, call me an arrogant bastard as i've heard before..

i'm posting as you've noticed a lot less, because:

a) i'm getting less satisfied with my screenshots.
b) i don't feel like doing it anymore with all the stupid stuff that went on the couple weeks ago here (the merging of the threads etc)
c) Feds, feds and feds. That's the only stuff these days that is getting released. Klingons could get a nice remastering (look at the bop i'm using, lint's way too big and it isn't an a solid texture). The Galor class that was a project, has also disappeared, the star destroyers have also disappeared, TU did the warbird which is delicious! I don't see the point of taking pictures for the coming months as good ships are just getting redone and having already six, seven or eighth almost identical versions of well-known ships. There are tons of vessels that could get a remaster:

galor
hideki
keldon
dreadnought weapon
cardassian starbase
klingon bop
klingon vorcha
klingon negh'var
romulan bop (old one)
hirogen venatic ship
jem'hadar bugship
jem'hadar battlecruiser
jem'hadar battleship
starbase 375
and so on...

When modders perhaps start on this, taking screenshots is a possibility again, but taking screenshots of the same ships again is just boring, no fun.

I think we ought to remind you right now:   Everyone is moving to Excalibur!  the reason there's all those feddies?  because the people here are the only ones making mods right now!

everything you just mentioned is probably being put together RIGHT NOW for excalibur.

buck up, kid, it's all BEING done..at once, but we won't see it till excalibur, and I thinkit'll take a while before we see it, despite what a lot of people think.  it's like JB and Limeys Delta Quadrant pack... when it's done.

[sovereign001]

Cookie for this post Sov.  I'm in full agreement with you on this.  As great as some of these ships are the best to come out in awhile was DJ's Damar.  It was different and beautiful at the same time.  I do enjoy some of the original Fed work coming out but some remastered Alien ships or hell even new designs would be great to see.

I agree. Even so, it doesn't need to be star trek ships. Babylon 5 ships, wing commander vessels, andromeda vessels, stargate vessels. The universe is full with ships, so its not about being creative.

The DQP is in my disposal, it has some nice and creative systems and ships. It is already a good step in the direction that me and others are looking forward to.

@Moed,

It's nice that you also agree with the reasons, and i'm sure that perhaps 70 % if not more agrees with me, but no one has the balls to say it because they are afraid they will hurt the modders. I don't want to hurt them either, they keep the game alive, but by making the same ships or always the same race isn't.

@King, i'm not bucking up or whatever you say, i'm entitled to have my own opinion. And as you could see, there are already a few who agree (and the ones who left this community agreed with me too).

There are still enough modders here active on this community that aren't in excalibur.

MC and ewok, have fun with taking future screenshots ;)


PS: Please, don't pm me with nerd mails about anger and about arrogance or whatever... I'm just giving an opinion that has been said a lot behind the scenes.

[Jb06]

LOL I sometimes wonder whether the modders on here are all sheep

[sovereign001]

JB, baby, keep pumping stuff like the DQP. Love it!

[Jb06]

JB, baby, keep pumping stuff like the DQP. Love it!

Retired mate The only thing I've got sitting on my hdd which you guys don't have is a Utopia Planitia Shipyards map ;) Like you know I only work on Excalibur now

[JimmyB76]

i personally am so tired of listening to people whine and complain...  so sick of the negativity...
either do something about it by making contributions, or be glad with what you have...  quitting on the community because of such things is just selfish...  quitting on the community due to lack of time and desire is fine and understandable - then leave it at that and dont bother bitching about what the community lacks or what modders are/arent doing as you want them to...

and since the point of the screenshots threads being merged was brought up - after all the bullshit and strife (more instances of people whining and complaining...) that i received for trying to keep things proper with multiple threads, i was left with no choice...  people decided to throw a tantrum, create a colossal debate and bullshit drama filled with disrespect to me, so this is the end result...  i have been so patient the last several months, trying to be understanding and polite to everyone...  anyone that knows me from before and way back to BCU knows how quickly i can go into bitch-mode with an iron fist and not take any shit from anyone anywhere, and maybe that element in my personality should be more apparent more often...


and please note that this post isnt directed to you in a personal way, sov, or to anyone - im just venting...  it is disappointing to hear someone is quitting because they arent satisfied with modders and their work...  for the last 10 years, i have seen it hundreds of times where people would complain because modders arent doing other things and i personally have zero tolerance and patience for that, it is very disrespectful...
and in case anyone hasnt noticed, BC is in its final days so of course things are dwindling down rapidly...  if not for modders like baz, dj, wiley, etc there would be no need for this forum really anymore...  so even if they are all doing the ssame ships over and over, it is because they want to and that should be appreciated and accepted with gratitude and they shouldnt be given any flack because they arent doing different things...

once excalibur is completed and public, it will be a whole new environment, a whole new community (with all of us and many many others from other trek gaming communities), a whole new modding scene that will be extremely active and major, and it will be bigger than BC ever was in its prime...  until then, this is what we have so it is better to be supportive to modders still keeping this thing alive than it is to be disappointed with them...

[FarShot]

So it was mentioned in the BC Screenshots thread (by the way, thank you Jimmy for getting it back on topic) that there are too many Fed ships, too many Connies, too many Galaxies, et cetera, et cetera...  I think someone needs to make a certain point absolutely clear...

We modders mod only when we have the time, patience, and desire to do so.

We are not game developers.  We have no obligation to ourselves, the community, or anyone to mod certain ships or reflect the variety of ships in the Star Trek universe.  If I were commissioned to make a ship then stop at 99% and say "eff you" to the requester, I am perfectly within my rights to do so.

We mod the ships that we want too.  If I wanted to make thirty different Sovereign classes instead of one "flying turd" Galor, I can damn well please.  Also, there's a reason it's a rule here not to ask for status updates.  We modders have real lives to deal with, and maybe dropping a project is the best thing for us to do, whether the BC community likes it or not.

I agree that ships like the B'rel are completely under-represented in the array of downloads available at BCF.  But that gives me only the smallest bit more reason to tackle it.  I simply like the design possibilities of Fed ships about a hundred times more.  So screw me for wanting to sketch beautiful Federation starships all day.

Also, another thing for Jimmy.  You do wonderful work here maintaining BCC.  I know you don't really mod, but I have to point out something.  You don't complain.  The occasional comment about what might work better for a certain design is perfectly awesome.  That of course is completely different from insulting the work of every active modder, which certain members of the community are doing by complaining about the mods released in these waning days of BC.

Alright, I think I have that off my chest.  Don't worry Flarespire, the Inferno will be done someday.  Just waiting on Bones to get back to me on how animated and transparent textures are working out for him.

[mckinneyc]

I couldn't agree more with you Farshot.

Points I was trying to make but from the user of mods side of the fence. Everyone here works so hard to keep the game alive and I thank you all.

No one is saying that you have to download every Galaxy class released or Connie released. I am very select about what I have on my install and that is reflected in my screen shots.

So much great work on here.

[JimmyB76]

ok ive split the posts from the Screenshot Thread regarding this subject, and merged it with the one that Farshot just made, so this conversation can continue...

[FarShot]

ok ive split the posts from the Screenshot Thread regarding this subject, and merged it with the one that Farshot just made, so this conversation can continue...

Ah, well played, Jimmy, well played...

Also, another point, inspired by something Jimmy said:

and in case anyone hasnt noticed, BC is in its final days so of course things are dwindling down rapidly...  if not for modders like baz, dj, wiley, etc there would be no need for this forum really anymore...  so even if they are all doing the ssame ships over and over, it is because they want to and that should be appreciated and accepted with gratitude and they shouldnt be given any flack because they arent doing different things...

All of us modders could easily go over to Excalibur and ask to help out, heck, DJ already did, and leave BC for good.  I don't, personally, because I know I or someone else will port my ships over anyways.  Heck, if I had my way, I'd much rather have all you users of our ships grovelling at our feet saying thank you for sticking around when so many have moved on.  BC is so old for a game.  It's astounding that it is still being modded after ten years.  Few other games can say that.  I would have moved on if there were a good Star Trek game only partly like BC.  Hell, I'd be playing STO if I didn't forget my username and password.

Really, the line feels that thin - only a login button is separating me from dropping modding BC.  At max, there's like a dozen active modders here, and the community is damn lucky if they each put out a mod a month.

So in summary, be thankful for what you do have - us modders - instead of what you don't, a new B'rel.  (Which Phoenix is working on for Invasion, I believe.)

[sovereign001]

Farshot, instead of flaming at me, you better be talking in general.

I'm just saying that there could be more variety in the modding. I never attacked anyone. If i thought the work was crappy,  i wasn't spending like half an hour every two days making a nice screenshot. If there are people talking about it but just don't want to mention it because they know that people will react like you in hatred against them, no one will ever know. So i brought it up for discussion.

But perhaps it is good that other people will see what kind of reaction will occur if they just say their opinion.

And don't worry, you won't be seeing any b'rell or whatever shots from me ;)

[mckinneyc]

We are grateful! I think I speak for every member of the forum.

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!       

[FarShot]

If I wanted to flame you I'd be telling you to quit bitching and mod your own damn ships.  On the contrary, I'm happy to satisfy the community.  And I'm not meaning to target you specifically, but you brought up this discussion, so I'd expect that when people reply, they'd reply to the original poster.

Now as for attacking anyone...  You're right in that you targeted no one.  However, by saying that you're giving up on this BC screenshot community because the modding half (really, tenth) of it is ruining it for you, well frankly it feels like a slap in the face.  Like for instance Jimmy, he felt offended that people were complaining about the screenshot threads, even though they weren't mad at him.  Us "parents" are proud of our "children", so if they get attacked, you can be damn sure we're going to defend.

As for reaction to saying an opinion...  Let's look at the First Amendment.  Yes you have your freedom to speak your opinion.

PART 2:  We have our freedom to speak our opinion of your opinion.

Not much more needs to be said of that.  You should expect a reaction from saying something.  That's what forums are for.

[baz1701]

Well here is my 10 cents. I can only speak for myself but I'm a star trek fan first and foremost. I have given myself the personnel mission of building all the Enterprise's. As you guys know the 1701-E is under way and my excelsior will be modded in to the 1701-B.

But let's not forget in the last 18 months I have released as a member of SFRD. 4 Klingon ships and 1 Romulan. Also a Cardassion station in the form of DS9, and tholians. I have also started a Klingon BOP but nothing worth showing yet as still in the research stage. I also will be building a fed ship based on the sov and possibly doing a nebula class but also might do ferengi maurader.

So until Excalibur is up and running I'm not planning on going anywhere. And hopefully I can continue there as well.