Man of Steel Discussion

[Shadowknight1]

I'm talking about the critic rating, not the audience rating.  Last I checked, the world was mostly full of idiots.

MODERATING POWERS, ACTIVATE!!!  THREADIMUS SPLITICUS!!!

And last I checked, most critics are cynical jackasses.

[ShaunKL]

Now, I am a massive Superman fan.  My Superman fandom something I've grown into as opposed to something that's always been there like Star Trek.  I enjoyed the movie.  It did what it needed to do, which is make people like a Superman movie.  On a technical level though, it isn't very strong.  So if I were being cold and logical it probably would end up being about a 60/100, on an emotional level though it brings it up to 75 or 80/100.

Now that we've overcompensated for the lack of action in Superman Returns and pleased the masses with a Nolan-ish movie I hope we can turn it down a notch and make a well-balanced movie for (quite possibly) next year.  Someone please help David Goyer write the next movie...

[moed]

I absolutely loved Man Of Steel!  Very well done IMO.

BTW, I have to agree that the Dark Knight series was excellent... but not exceptional.  Particularly in the fight scenes, I mean, this is Batman, IMO he can kick Bruce Lee's ass in his prime... instead, the writers made him what I consider "pretty good", but not phenomenally good which is what he's supposed to be.

Anyways, who cares, they were all good movies.

[086gf]

Saw it last week, I enjoyed it very much. Might be seeing it again this weekend.

[Toa_Kaita]

I saw it today with my dad and it was amazing! I loved it! It felt like the love child of Dragonball Z (minus the filler) and Battlestar Galactica

[Shadowknight1]

I saw it today with my dad and it was amazing! I loved it! It felt like the love child of Dragonball Z (minus the filler) and Battlestar Galactica

Well, both Kal-El and Kakarrot were sent to Earth just before the destruction of Krypton and Planet Vegeta and are considered the last of their race despite the obvious evidence to the contrary(Zod and gang, Kara Zor-El, and the inhabitants of Kandor for Kal-El, Vegeta and Nappa for Kakarrot).

Oh, and one of Zod's troops is named Nam-Ek.

[Darkthunder]

Just returned from watching Man of Steel. It was... epic!!!

My only regret is that they didn't have the "classic" John Williams theme. But the movie overall was excellent I thought. A few references to Smallville (the series) throughout. One of the goons played Lex's "double" in an episode or two of Smallville for instance.

[1DeadlySAMURAI]

I liked it as well. I had some rather low expectations but I was thankfully wrong.

[hobbs]

i liked it too... could have toned down the shaky cam though lol... gave me a headache.

good film
 

[Saquist]

SaQ Review: Man of Steel
!!!SOME SPOILERS!!!

TECHNICAL POINTS

PLOT & THEMES:

The plot is relatively simple.  General Zod's ambition is to resurrect his home planet on Earth.  This main plot point is mixed with the exposition of an origin story.  I sense there maybe problems in isolating why General Zod had to chose Earth.  I do recall there being some mention of ancient Krypton withdrawing it's presence from the universe and that the then current method of reproduction was invitro in order t the design the future of krypton against over population but it doesn't make sense not to populate other worlds and hence why Zod makes his stand on Earth for his New World.  The plot may have been sound but not well executed.

As a General Plot it works with possible minor plot issues.  There were no character Plot Holes are contrivances but it was also nothing special.  This is to be expected from Movie Translations from Comics but it is an Average Plot and thus.

The theme work was very solid though...the whole concept of his father dying to save his son form the scrutiny of the world was shocking and aswell the concept that Clark was not alone and didn't feel truely alien.  He found friends in an IHOP from childhood and he even went to a priest to consider his next  action and gained wisdom.  These were extremely powerful points in the film, they bolstered the films case to the audience by justifying itself as a story with human ideas and problems.

Rating 6/10


EDITING:
Editing is how the story is told and I definitely detected problems here.  Man of Steel in the Great majority of the beginning jumps between Clark as a man and as a youth.  There is nothing wrong with such a dynamic however it's not often done for a reason.  It's extremely difficult not to loose the audience about which time frame you're currently watching.  I experience a mild sense of confusion at one particular point when he's found the Scout ship in Antartica and is becoming Superman as he learns to fly, from before as we watch what happens to his human father in Kansas.  This is because it's the same actor playing Clark that plays Superman.  I adjusted myself quickly but others expressed the same confusion aswell over if the beginning sequence of Heroisms were part of the present day or the past.

This could have been done better but it's an above average style of editing.
Rating 6/10

CINEMATOGRAPHY:
Cinematography is the choice of camera positions, techniques (like Shakey Cam) and color.  
Man of Steel had a gritty look.  The hues were extremely subdued in some areas (often on Earth) but on Krypton there were some vibrant areas.  I found the contrast a bit displacing and disorienting.  But at the end of the film we recived some FASCINATING CGI CAM SHOTS of Superman speeding to his target from just behind his head.  It had a dynamic feeling similar to DS9's Way of the Warrior as the station fired it's torpedoes on the Klingons D7's.  It was EXTREMELY hard hitting, Power and Different.  Much of the "super moments" had similar effect.  They truely did a good job putting you with a camera in a fight against super powered humans.

Rating 7/10

ACTING:
There were no bad actors in the film.  I was never in a moment of cringing because the expressions or delivery o the lines were less than genuine.
Kevin Kostner (not always great) was very well picked for Earthly Father.  A poignant moment before the twister where Clark says "You're not my father", was especially powerful from both actors.  And the lead actor Henry Cavill's looks of anguish were heart wrenching in more than a few moments here and at the end of the Film.

I also enjoyed Lois.  She was Plucky and grounded,  Neither the character nor the actress Hammed it up like the original 1978 Movie or Smallville as to concerning the "Plucky" part.  Rather her motivation was solid and convincing.

Rating: 8/10



CGI:
It was amazing but not to the point of absolute realism.  To compare it with the original IRONMAN which absolutely convinced me that Robert Downy Jr was flying around in a super metal suit this fell far short.  At some times it was bordering on cartoony and reminiscent of the bad parts of the Matrix Sequels hand to hand combat but they made sure we never over focused on faces when CGI replaced real filming.

The Kyrptonian ships were also extremely reminiscent of the Matrix style of Organic metal machines.  This wasn't good because it too had a cartoony effect on the begining and some small parts of the end.  My general sense is that they were so unrealistic or futuristic that it didn't mess well with the gritty look of this part of the film.

Rating 8/10

MUSIC:
Not a trace of John Williams Superman Fanfare....was that a good idea?
I'm going to say...YES.  But only because they had the next best thing to John Williams and that was Hans Zimmerman.  While he didn't knock it out of the park he was an extremely solid piece of composing, extremely difficult to ignore though not theme based like Horner and Williams.  I've been a fan of Zimmerman's style.  I have the TWISTER Soundtrack and Prince of Egypt.  He blends into the background almost to well and never comes out with a direct obvious theme.  He compliments the film rather than like John Williams whose music literally gallops along with the film.

Rating 8/10

THE INTANGIBLES

SUSPENSE
You do spend alot of the film waiting for the end for that impact and power.  In the begining is a lot of Clark discovery and that's understandable but once the film turns it on, it does well with good moments suspense in the action itself.  But it also shoots itself in the foot with over action.  The machine fight was extremely anticlimactic...the fight we really wanted was Zod and once it got going it was good but the death of Zod was a failure to me...another anticlimatic point.  Is is really that easy (simple force) to kill a Kryptonian?) just snap his head?

Rating 7/10

EXCITEMENT:
If we judge on the action scene alone (and I will) this film was extremely well made for excitement.  The camera views, the feats and shear power of their abilities filled you with awe.

9/10

FULL SUBMERSION FACTOR:

I was continually wondering about plot points.
-Did Zod really have a good reason for being so obstinate about choosing Earth and potentially loosing all of Krypton in this one battle?
-Did Jonathan Kent have to die in a twister for a Dog?
-Why are very few people truly amazed at the magnitude of their abilities.  Lois should be shellshocked half the time as well as the military...they just found aliens and super power aliens in the space of a day...where is the chaos and the dumbstruck looks of disbelief
-Why isn't Superman saving more people?  That was a large factor in the former Good Films and it's a bit missing as literally thousands of humans are killed with the World Engines.
-Couldn't the fight be taken off the planet at least for Zod or some place other than metropolis.

Rating 6/10

Total Rating 6.5
While this sounds low it is mostly about how the different elements come together (and how much one person was paying attention to the total impact of all these aspects).  I suspect this film is a strong 7/10...not bad.

But I will say the 6.5 is valid as the story was faltering in some spots to convey the finality of the encounters and decisions and other points... Sometimes its necessary to slow the pace of the film or speed it up.  Other times you must repeat a plot point so that the audience doesn't forget or that you as the film maker doesn't just gloss over it with a one-liner to cover a plot point.  We're not all ADD so taking your time to tell a proper story still wins points from this critic.

[FarShot]

Looks like we concur on a review.

Except on a few points.  Can't stand Hans Zimmer.  Overrated.

[Shadowknight1]

Looks like we concur on a review.

Except on a few points.  Can't stand Hans Zimmer.  Overrated.

Ehhh, I do agree on that in a way.  I do love a lot of his work, especially the Pirates of the Caribbean movies and Man of Steel, but for every good score, he turns out one that's...less than memorable.  Or in my case, three that come to mind.  The Dark Knight Trilogy had decent music, but none of it was memorable at all.  I don't find myself humming that music ever.  If I hum any Batman theme, it's Elfman's.  So while I like some of Zimmer's stuff, I do agree that he's overrated.  Some people think he's the next John Williams, and that's so far from the case that it's not even funny.

And I'll say this.  While I enjoyed this movie's Zod, part of me wishes that he would have said, "Kneel before Zod!" at least once.  And Faora actually interested me a little more than Zod.

[Saquist]

This is what movies like Man of Steel should have in the camera work area.
Skip to 3:19 for a great scene transition that makes maxiumum use of the abilities of CGI and Action

Obviously I disagree Knight.  I've played trumpet and taught myself piano and arrangement.  What Zimmerman does is underatted simply because...you don't notice it.  Some people don't grasp mood music or classical music that has no particular gripping theme or catch melody.

I did a study on a friend of mine (without him knowing).
He was younger...at time 18.  I introduced varying amounts of music to him in different situations and gave him specific instructions on how to listen to it.

He's black and normally listens to a lot of hip hop and rap and at the time he wasn't interested in classical, metal, alternative or heavy metal.
With specific instruction I told him to listen to a song from Disturbed.  He promptly told me he didn't like it.  It simply wasn't his thing.  I smiled when he told me that but I didn't let on.  He was instructed to listen to this one song at least 2x while moving around the house, studying or cleaning up.  

I then gave him a CD of songs which I called SHOCK THERAPY
1. Blow Me Away- Breaking Benjamin
2. Take me Under-Threedays Grace
3. Echo-Trapt
4. Falls on Me-Fuel
5. Still Fram-Trapt
6.The Deep End-Trapt
7. Misery-Metallica
8. Home-Three Days Grace
9. Open Your Eyes- Guano Apes
10. Weight of the World- Saliva
11. Failure- Linkin Park
12. The Unknown- Crossfade
13. Forgotten- Linkin Park
14. Awaken -Disturbed
15. Straight Out of Line- God Smack
16. Conflict (Enemy)-Disturb
17. Given to me- Disturbed
18. Andromeda-Hopesfall

I arranged this compilation CD not only for him to not notice the song but to get used to the heavy Guitar Distortion he regarded as "NOISE".  Part of my theory was to avoid constant distortion effects over the entire CD, different kinds of distortions and altering the pace of the CD from Ballads to fast pace at certain times.  I paid specific attention to how each song blended into the other.  I also paid specific attention to the first and last song.
-----
For Example
-Blow me Away was chosen for its easy movie like intro arrangement
-I think I did a great job with the placement of "The Unknown to Forgotten"  But not with "Failure to Unknown"
-The Ending Song is completely Instrumental and short
-----

I told Marcus to listen to this CD while playing one of his video games.
He came to me a week later in complete amazement.  Not only did he like the CD but the song he said he didn't like (Enemy by Disturbed) he said "Was so powerful" while trying to beat a boss on the game.

SO FAR I've created almost Twenty CD's like this.
Ragnarock
Melancholy Drift ( w/ assistance)
Once in a Quarter Mile
Buzz Band Blitz
Buzz Fest
Static Buzz
Symphony to Life
Never Before (w/ assistance)
Rhythm Audio Premise
Rhythm Box
Winner Take All
Shock Therapy
Like No Other (w/ assistance)
Cataclysm
Acoustic Ultra Sound
Cover to Cover (incomplete)
The Unifying Force (incomplete)

Currently working on a JAZZ CD.



------------
Orchestrating a Soundtrack works the same way.  Zimmerman is amazing at this.  He's the ninja of his field.  While the music is great on it's own necessarily it complements the film greatly while allowing it's self to drop back...like a heart beat,  you know it's there but after a while you don't notice it and it begins to dictate the pace very subtly.  In the case of Inception and Dark Knight Rises...not so subtly but still the same style.

[FarShot]

I don't like Elfman's theme because it's a bit campy/corny.  I grew up watching Batman and Superman on Saturday mornings, and that's the Batman I remember.  I liked Zimmer's work for the Dark Knight trilogy because there are some really good cues that sound bat-ish.

My biggest beef with Zimmer is not the hummability, so to speak.  As a musician myself, it pains me that the work of full orchestras playing pieces orchestrated to production footage is being devalued by mass produced synthetically contrived music that the movie producers/editors cut and paste to fit in.  The only reason Hans Zimmer turns out so many soundtracks a year is because he mostly just sits there and hums out tunes then writes them into a computer program.  People like John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, and Michael Giacchino actually watch footage of the film to write their music to.  Then they'd work with dozens of talented musicians, including virtuoso's in their fields, to produce miracles.  There used to be a time when watching a hundred musicians, who had spent decades of their lives perfecting their art, play music in a concert hall was a passtime valued very highly.  Those days are gone...

[Saquist]

That's funny my friend Marcus (whom I spoke of earily) does the same thing.  Litterally humms out a idea and arranges it with other sounds.  I think its just brilliant.

I asked him to take a single melody from an old video game called Wing Commander

This is the original:

This is his version: 
Hip Hop-ified of course

The kid was amazing.  So I have a great deal of Respect for this kind of composure.

[FarShot]

I'm not saying Zimmer or your friend don't have talent.  I mess around with FL Studio all the time.  But other composers have that same talent, and share it with hundred of other musicians in a large recording studio, synced with clips of the film with handmade cues to match the onscreen action.

[Saquist]

This theme from Mission Impossible 2...MY Absolute Favorite

Injection - Mission Impossible 2

Prince of Egypt

Watchful Guardian - The Dark Knight

This Land- Lion King

Time - Inception

Now We Are Free - Gladiator

Main Theme - The Rock

Man of Steel

I may arrange these for a new Soundtrack Album....pretty good stuff
I mean...is it any wonder that 2 out of the 3 songs from the Kobyashi Maru Pack are Hans Zimmer...

I Think Not!!

[Nighthawk]

saquist, may I introduce you to some ear-dusting tunes? 

not sure if it's the case with those bands, but some of the musicians playing with them also play with the studios making the movies.
you might find tunes similar to Saw, Batman, POTC, Inception....