Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC Downloads => Topic started by: teeth_03 on March 28, 2008, 08:44:13 AM
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***New Version KT 1.3***
http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Teeths_Rebalance_to_KM10;97407
basically,ive been out of Trek since the last update,and well,the STO site came up and gave me a little bit of interest again.
So please,if you think KM1.0 needs a rebalance,try mine out and give me any kind of Feedback please
Bugs/Things to fix-
Edit the Shiplists some more
Bioship is currently a little too nerfed
Standard Torpedo loadouts
Anything else I probably forgot about
***ORIGINAL POST***
Ive been having success with my excel spreadsheet to rebalance ships,and im almost done actually. Pulse Weapons are pain in the rear to balance. I'm kind of afraid I might have made them too powerful...
Only problem is,I havent really tested much myself.
Theres a few tricky things I have to do tho
1. Balance the torpedoes. In an effort to add an interesting gameplay mechanic to the game,I gave most of the ships 2 different kinds of torpedoes. Torpedo A is like Photons and Torpedo B is like Quantums. My original idea was to make it so Torpedo A's had a better seeking ability,and Torpedo B's have less of a chance to hit the target,but are more powerful. I did this to the Feds,Klingons,Romulans and Cardassians (Cardassians use the Positron2 torpedo,think it was unused in km1.0,its a kewl lookin torp). Does this sound like a good idea?
2. The Borg Ships. I want to add different versions of the 3 borg ships to the multiplayer ship list. What I want to do is,is to balance them so they could fight in duels without being 'god' ships. I havent tired it yet,but I might need help adding them to the ship list when im done.
3. To further add to the Ship List- I want to reorder all the ships from the bottom up in terms of power. I also want to try to change the groups (IE-since theres only 1 ferengi,remove the Ferengi group and add the ship to 'Other'). This is also the Multiplayer ship list.
4. The 'KM1.0' tag in the server list,I need to find where I can change it...
I'm aiming at multiplayer with this,I'm not real too concerned with single player.
The main reason why im posting this is,is that I need some Beta Testers that play online ;)
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The file you want to edit is gameinfo.py in the scripts folder. It contains the "KM1.0" server list tag.
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thanx
I also figured out how to redo the Multiplayer ship list.
if anyone wants to Beta test let me know,I might be able to send out the files tomorrow (still need to fool with the borg and the torpedo scripts).
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you'll have to release this as a major patch for KM required for multiplayer.
go to the KM forums and inform them what you're doing, so they can clear the way for you
http://bckobayashimaru.de/ws/index.php?id=forum (http://bckobayashimaru.de/ws/index.php?id=forum)
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he has the go-ahead from Defiant and the KM Team...
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awesome
...now If I can just figure out how to add copies of the borg ships to multiplayer without them showing up as ???...
I want 2 versions of the borg ships,the 'Alpha' and the 'Beta' balances,whereas the 'Beta' ones are more on duels and the 'Alpha' ones are the more powerful ones. I'm adding the Beta version of the Cube,tho that can be tested on weather it will be a problem or not
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the "???" issue is something screwey with the TGL...
however, the latest version of BCSMC on BCFiles comes with a function wherein you an put your own "Ship Description" and should solve that "???" issue...
alternately, if you look at the ship's plugin, youll notice a line that goes something like:
hasTGLName = 1
or
hasTGLDesc = 1
(i dont quite remember offhand how it goes exactly)
but putting a # in front of that might also fix the "???" thing...
unless there is already a #, in which case try removing it...
lol i know im making very little sense, but i am trying to think of it off the top of my head as i dont have BC installed on this comp...
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hmmm,weird
while fooling with the plugin file,I managed to make my BC not start up(black screen with pointer)
i noticed the game didnt generate a .pyc for the hardpoint files,but it did for the script files for the seperate ships
so how do I get it to generate the .pyc if the game dosent start up? lol
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can you post a screenshot of the console report?
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well,I went back and made the plugin with the BCSMC program and the game loaded up,but I still have ???,and the plugin dosent use and TGLs
arg,im a n00b to adding ships to the game manually.
Perhaps maybe you could be so kind and to maybe make a list of steps on how to add a duplicate ship to the game with a different balance?
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do you mean, having a ship with two separate hardpoints and two separate plugins?
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yeah
I just got done fixing everything bck to the way it was before I tried doing it,it was all really screwed up
I might just rebalance the 2 borg ships there for now
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I'd like to sign up as beta tester.
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3. To further add to the Ship List- I want to reorder all the ships from the bottom up in terms of power. I also want to try to change the groups (IE-since theres only 1 ferengi,remove the Ferengi group and add the ship to 'Other'). This is also the Multiplayer ship list.
as far as I know, reordering the ships is not really possible, as they are ordered alphabetically by filename, removing the Ferengi group is fairly easy, it should be a matter of just deleting the ferengi ship's plugin and making a new one with Other as the race. although, I recommend keeping it, as it makes it easier to find, and there are various plugins which are race specific, which will be screwed up.
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removing the Ferengi group is fairly easy, it should be a matter of just deleting the ferengi ship's plugin and making a new one with Other as the race.
or, make a simple change in the StaticDefs...
teeth - when i have a free moment, ill catch you on MSN messenger and explain step by step how to have a ship with two hardpoints and two plugins... its really quite easy... same with reordering the menu list...
(unless someone beats me to it and helps you before i am able to lol)
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I already reordered the menu list (multiplayer),it was easy.
I put the Cardassians,Dominion,Breen and Kessok all in the same group called 'Dominion Axis',since together,all the ships form a good list of the classes.
There might be a problem with the subtargets being hard to take out,but it will be a problem on like...everything,so it isnt like a group of ships is going to have an advantage over it.
I got to figure out what I did to make the Excalibur not want to load up,fool with the torpedo scripts and ill prolly upload the files.
I just rebalanced the 2 existing borg ships for now. Speaking of which tho,are there any...'smaller' borg vessels around? I might try to grab a few 'assimilated' vessels and include in an update,seeing as the Borg as they are,arent very good for multiplayer. Other than that tho,im not really looking to add any ships in the near future.
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theres all sorts of little borg shapes floating around the borg section on BCfiles. try poking around there, see if you find any good ones. i wouldnt mind seeing the Borg Assimilator from armada2
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damn it
as I was doing the finishing touches on some of the ships,ive realized some of the romulans wont load now,another set back
but im determined to get the files uploaded tonight
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alright,I figured everything out
check the original post for the download link
EDIT- already found a bug,the gameinfo didnt work right,now it does,I reuploaded
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the pulse weapons are too powerful
will fix and reupload tonight
has anyone tested this?
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I divided all the pulse weapon damages by 4 and reuploaded as 1.2,but I havent tested it online.
I was going to one night but the 2 guys I was gonna test with kept getting checksum errors :/
TBH,I cant get my head out of Call of Duty 4 to work on the rebalance much,but it is progressing.
I still need to know if theres any specific 'bugs' in KM1.0 you want me to fix while im at it? I still have to fix the ship icon for the Norway,for example.
Some of the weapon icon locations are off a bit,but I dont know how I would go about finding correct positions.
For now tho,im worried about how the ships work,before worrying about stuff like icons,etc etc.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the subsystem locations were off in some ships,can anyone elaborate on that?
btw,Jimmy,did you add me to MSN?
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btw,Jimmy,did you add me to MSN?
heya! ya i think i did, tho i havent been on MSN much at all the past few weeks... been really busy with overtime at work, so i havent really been home much at all...
hopefully i can get back to regular hours soon...
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I still need to know if theres any specific 'bugs' in KM1.0 you want me to fix while im at it? I still have to fix the ship icon for the Norway,for example.
Some of the weapon icon locations are off a bit,but I dont know how I would go about finding correct positions.
[...]
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the subsystem locations were off in some ships,can anyone elaborate on that?
I think the Akira?s warpcore is outside the ship and some more things (check the galaxy's impulse engines) but I'm not able to remember them at the moment. Most of them are posted in the km forums.
There are some people who would like to see an extra Mutator for the inaccurate phasers and some models are not very popular (I think the Nebula was always discussed - although I can't find anything wrong with her...)
To edit weapon icon locations you could try to use the Tactical Display Editor:
http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Tactical_Display_Editor;16233 (http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Tactical_Display_Editor;16233)
That's everything I know of atm...
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thanx,ill try to force myself to work on it sometime this week
I did already move the Akira warp core,but thats the only one I moved,it was kinda obvious,lol
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I decided to dig up some stuff and go ahead and upload what I have finished to BCfiles
http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Teeths_Rebalance_to_KM10;92550
basically,ive been out of Trek since the last update,and well,the STO site came up and gave me a little bit of interest again.
So please,if you think KM1.0 needs a rebalance,try mine out and give me any kind of Feedback please
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*moved to Downloads*
teeth_03 please feel free to edit the original post :)
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roger that
I want everybody to know that,I havent worked on this since April,I just decided to upload it out of the blue,so somethings might still be iffy that I forgot to fix or whatnot.
However,I wont know to fix anything if no one gives me any feedback,its the main reason I stopped working on it before,lack of interest from anyone else.
If you want to continue playing the same unbalanced mod,go for it. I applaud the KM team's effort,but they have all appearently moved onto better things in life and cant work on it anymore (key word: appearently).
I want to thank anyone who tries out the rebalance and gives me any feedback. Tho I dont agree with some of the things they done,I definetely want to thank the KM team for what they have done for BC.
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Good work teeth_03! It's good to rebalance things, makes things more "canon" I suppose. Gave you a cookie!
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actually,canon was a secondary concern for me,the main one was Gameplay
:D
if the game were canon,you would just hail the enemy and ask them not to shoot you,or shoot 1 phaser burst to disable all of their weapons,lol
Jokes aside,I think in the quest to be as canon as possible,a lot of developers lose track of the gameplay mechanics,and forgot that they're making a game,and not a technical manual with starship blueprints.
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Werlll, it don't matter to me. I suppose what I meant by canon was...:
Sovie + phaser at NX = lots of damage :D
Sovie + phaser at Connie original = damage :)
Sovie + phaser at Connie TMP = slightly less damage than last time :|
...and it goes on to...:
Sovie + Quantum Torpedoes at Borg Tactical Cube = One p***ed of Borg Collective :( :shock: :? :assimilate
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but they have all appearently moved onto better things in life and cant work on it anymore (key word: appearently).
Not True.
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the KM Team are continuing to work on KM1.1 - but life sometimes gets in the way and people cant be as speedy as they were before...
but the team is still at it, and they are still working on a KM update...
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but they have all appearently moved onto better things in life and cant work on it anymore (key word: appearently).
Not True.
the KM Team are continuing to work on KM1.1 - but life sometimes gets in the way and people cant be as speedy as they were before...
but the team is still at it, and they are still working on a KM update...
According to my eyes, this discussion has come out the blue?
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no, Teeth said that we "appearently moved onto better things in life and cant work on it anymore"
I only stated that, thats not true.
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Oops. It's just that the first quote was underlined and I didn't see anything underlined in the whole thread. Sorry!
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okay no problem :P
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well,BC is about the only trek game with an active online community that I have any interest in playing,so I'm just doing what I can.
I didnt mean any disrespect,I just came to the [wrong] conclusion that they stopped working on it. I dont talk to any members of the team,and their forum posts hint at the really vauge possibility that they were still working on it,so I wasnt sure.
I would,however,like to know whether or not my rebalance is an improvment on the existing KM1.0 or not. I used Excel to do all the balancing,I input comparative values and such and have macros setup to search for and replace values in the .py's. So even if my balance is 'wrong', I can just as easily change some values in my charts and redo everything without that much effort.
So if anyone,especially members of the KM team,thinks my balance is off,let me know and I can talk to them about the values I have in my charts and I can tweak things to their liking.
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Hey, if it turns out they do want to change it slightly? Well done for having a very good attempt at this.
well,BC is about the only trek game with an active online community that I have any interest in playing.
Hehe.
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hi Please let me know if you need any beta testers i play game all the time and would love to beta test, not good at making mods but love beta testing, and i thing your rebalence is what km 1.0 needs
please let me know :D
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its been about 2 months since working on it, but if you guys do wanna beta test,try to find someone else you can try it online with, since this is a MP mod. You can try to hit me up at the email address in the readme,just use a appropriate subject title.
I left for a while seeing as,from what I could tell, some people think I dont know what im doing, without even testing the mod. I never said the balance was perfect, thats why I posted this,so people could test it and give me feedback on what to fix balance wise.
That is,if you are content with the way KM1.0 is already balanced. Otherwise, if you guys want,I can help to fix the balance, but I would need some beta testers to give me feedback on what to fix,since this is hard to test by myself.
I also stated before that I would go along with the KM team if they wanted me to follow some guidelines about balancing, for maybe KM 1.1. If the team wants me help out with the balancing their way,thats fine too. However,I balance ships linearly by using a system of numbers and Excel. They could give me the data for the system and I could do the balancing,for example.
I would love to get back in BC again,but I find that KM1.0 is just annoying,its always Federation ships,and its always the select few. I would just like a little diversity in multiplayer games. Thats just my goal here
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And it's a very good goal.
Hi, I'm Dakroth, a member of [SF] Starfleet, one of the oldest (true) Trek fleets out there. I recently stumbled upon your mod, and as I have had the same issues with KM1.0 - namely that no one uses but five different ships, and all the other ones are absolutely worthless when up against those 5 ships - I decided to download the mod and give it a try.
First off, let me just say that I am incredibly, incredibly impressed. You have done an excellent job making all of the other races have comparably powerful ship. I am also very happy to see a properly balanced Galaxy class. (She's supposed to be a freaking battleship, yet she is almost worthless in KM1.0 unless you're up against an unskilled player!)
I hope it's not too late to make some suggestions and offer the services of myself and several other [SF] members to beta-test this properly for you. StarFleet considers Bridge Commander its 'Fleet game,' meaning that everyone in the Fleet is able to play this quality Trek based game, even though we have long since branched out and have included non-Trek games to our roster, so as to keep ourselves active and current. I don't speak for the Fleet as a whole, but I know for a fact that I and many of my comrades would love to see a well balanced version of Bridge Commander widely used.
That being said, there are a few bugs that I must point out, in the hopes we are all still paying attention. :D
-First of all, there's something screwy with the multi-player. The mod works find in regards to the new ship list and the stability when multiple players are in a server, but when I try to add AI ships to the fray, they appear in a glitchy and odd sort of manner. Let me give an example: I had a friend of mine host a turkey-shoot server and throw in a couple of Federation shuttles for us to shoot at. He added several shuttles, about 5, I think, but instead of shuttles, the AIs appeared as, in one instance, an Excelsior class whos shields and health were fluctuating between 0%, 50% and 100%. These weird bug-ships also did not attack and flew sideways even though it said that they were moving at 0 kph. It took several torpedos to destroy any of them, and both my and my other friend's games crashed to desktop. The server host, however, was the only one to which the shuttles actually appeared as shuttles. The same thing happened again when we rejoined and he tried throwing in a Negh'Var.
-Second, I understand that you modified phaser damage output to be dependent on ship size, but as I was messing around with the ships in Quick Battle, I noticed that many ships' phasers appear to do absolutely no damage to shields. In most instances, I'd have to use the majority of my torpedos to get through an enemy's shields, and only then would my phasers be effective. I noticed a similar trend even with the Excalibur. It took me a considerably longer amount of time to get through a Ferengi Marauder's shields with my phasers than I would have expected with the most advanced and powerful ship in the Federation arsenal.
-Third, and I think someone mentioned this before, I have an issue with the inaccurate phasers. I like the idea of having phasers that don't always hit their target, but with many ships that I've used so far, I have to be very, very close to an enemy before I could even begin to dream that my phasers would ever hit. I would suggest, if it is possible, that phaser inaccuracy be adjusted so that they are somewhat inaccurate, not totally blind. :D
Other than that, I haven't seen anything else majorly problematic. If you are still up for continuing work on this project, please, let me know so I can give you a hand in testing models. My friends in Starfleet would be more than happy to test out ship models for you. And again, very, very good work so far. Keep it up.
I'll leave my contact info if you wish to contact me.
xFire: dakroth
AIM: dakroth01
Google Talk/Gmail account: Dakroth@gmail.com
Yahoo: SF_Dakroth
WIM: dakroth@live.com
(I know, I have a lot of instant messengers... I use the program Pidgin to connect to all of them (excluding xFire) at once, so if you add me, just add whichever account is the same as whatever program you use. It'll show up.)
Also, if you wish to check out [SF] Starfleet, you can find our main site at starfleets.st and our forums at starfleets.st/vb.
- [SF] Commander Dakroth
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-Third, and I think someone mentioned this before, I have an issue with the inaccurate phasers. I like the idea of having phasers that don't always hit their target, but with many ships that I've used so far, I have to be very, very close to an enemy before I could even begin to dream that my phasers would ever hit. I would suggest, if it is possible, that phaser inaccuracy be adjusted so that they are somewhat inaccurate, not totally blind. :D
you may want to see these threads:
bc-central.com/forums/index.php/topic,3282.0.html
bckobayashimaru.de/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1830
however, the thing is that MP requires every script of every player to be the exact same... so any changes to the script itself made by one person on one end must be exactly the same with everyone else's...
and even then, i cant guarantee it would work out (i never play MP)... it does work perfectly if you dont wish to play MP tho, this much i can confirm...
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Thank you for the response. We've made sure that we add these new mods onto clean copies of KM 1.0, so it isn't that. All other mods we've tried work just fine, so I assume there's something in the scripting. I'm no expert, though, so I couldn't say for sure.
Thanks for the links, though.
-Dakroth
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umm,I'd have to play around a bit just to remember all what I did,but I would love to continue on the project. Thanx a bunch for beta testing.
However,I am unsure on most of your problems. Sounds like a script mismatch or something to me. Did you confirm the errors in an offline game as well?
One more thing,when you played online,did the new server tag show up? I had a problem with that,and I was never sure if it worked,seeing as I lacked beta testers. Should be KT1.2 I think instead of KM1.0.
I think the problem with Turkey shoot,is that its based on the single player ship list. I basically made the mod to update just multiplayer, without worrying too much with single player. But I did testing in single player and never came around to any of those weird errors.
I'll have to do some testing next week to see what the problem is,but I dont see why the Excalibur should have gimped phasers.
If any knowledgable people have any info on the problems,let me know how to fix them and I can make a new patch release. I am kinda busy,so I probably cant fool with much untill Wednesday.
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I fixed a few more things and uploaded it, now at version KT1.3 (KT stands for Kobiyashi Maru Teeth balance btw)
I just submitted it to BCfiles,so its not up yet,but you can use this link. Ill update the original post with the new version once the BCfiles link is up
http://files.filefront.com/km+rebalance+teeth+13zip/;13072862;/fileinfo.html
EDIT- original post now has BC files link
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Hi Teeth,
I have tested your Rebalance version 1.3 extensively now, and I can only gratulate you for the good work. KM 1.0 has a definite balancing problem, and I don?t play multiplayer for that reason, only quickbattle.
If you allow, I have a detailed feedback regarding the individual ships.
First off, Galor, Keldon and so on, they are wonderful. I like to play the Cardies, so finally these ships are not just decoy targets anymore.
I also like for example your Dominion Battlecruiser or the Neg`Var. You overall have increased the turning speed of all ships and the tropedo speed, which makes the game more fastpaced, which is good :-).
Now to the things that could be adjusted even more, from my humble prespective.
Dominion Battlecruiser needs more than 1 repair team, for a ship of that size.
Dominion Bug attack ship ->Tropedo reload down to 30 sec. (it is 40 sec. and takes endless)
The Dominion Battleship is just a sitting duck, needs better turning speed. (I could take it out with a Defaint just staying behind it, receiving almost no hits at all).
The K?Tinka is much too powerful, needs adjustment of it?s disruptor cannons and propably, turning speed.
The Nebula class is too strong, especially the phasers you gave her.
The Praetor should be stronger, I expect it to be a Romulan heavy cruiser, equal or better than a Firehawk.
The Romulan Warbird is just a sitting duck, needs major balance. Perhaps offensive weapons down, but turning speed up so it can more than match a galaxy class.
The Hutet could need more aft tropedoes, more than four.
I like to fiddle with the hardpoints myself, so I have done some work to rebalance some of the issues I have spoken of. If you want, I can send you the hardpoints. That is, if you are still interested in making a possible 1.4 version of this mod.
I very much enjoy how you modded KM 1.0, and would be willing to help with Beta testing and hardpointing. Have you modded other of your personal installed ships aswell? It would perhaps be interesting to put more balanced ships into KM 1.0.
Best Regards
JamesTSchuerk
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I have plans to work on this again,if I can motivate myself
I am gonna redo my balance chart and rebalance a lot of stuff [again]
Theres too much of a gap between ships of different sizes, the gap needs to be closed so smaller ships can have a chance at bigger ships,of the pilot has some skills.
But actually,the big ships are supposed to be slow,btw
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how can i get thie thing to work the km 1.0 i download it like it said made a copy and put it in the folder like it said now it still does not work i just got the game and i have no idea what to do can someone give me a like how how to do it right cuz i cant fight online still i get it right every one else is usein this update and cant get on any of them
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what do you mean everyone else is using this update online?? most use the stock KM 1.0 mod.
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i know thats what im useing how do i get it to work i cant get to any other games when i fight online it keeps saying file miss match when i do
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really you should post about this in the tech support forum... that's where this issue should really go.
while there post how you installed everything i.e. the order.
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how do i install it thats what im asking? i download it and im not sure how to get it on there
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copy the main folders data, scripts, and sfx from the KM folder into a clean BC with 1.1 patch installed.