Bridge Commander Central
Recreational Forums => Trek Discussion => Films & Shows => Topic started by: bebostep on June 06, 2008, 02:55:20 PM
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So of course we've seen the bridge crew of the ships in all ther series of Star Trek and all the officers involved with the ship. But in reality there are not that many officers on any kind of ship then there are the NCO's. There are episods were we see the NCO's and it has been getting better at it but I believe read something that 80% of the fleet is NCO's... it sure doesn't seem like it.
Of course I'm going to get yelled at by some people, but I'm curious, could it be possible to creat a series just on the NCO's and let the officers me a minor role instead?
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An interesting thought. We definitely saw more NCO action in Voyager, but little in TNG.
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You're right. Almost every random who's stopped by one of the main charactors is 'Ensign' or 'Lieutenant'. It seems like all of starfleet is officers.
The only NCO I can think of off the top of my head is Cheif O'Brien. I'm amazed that the head of engineering on DS9 was a Chief when everywhere else they're at least a Lt.Commander. It wasn't particularly obvious he was an NCO either, most people asume 'Chief' means 'Chief of Engineering' instead of his actual rank.
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What was up with O'Brien's rank in TNG though? Around season 5, he seemed to get promoted to lieutenant and yet was still called chief and then was demoted back to chief when he transferred to DS9.
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An interesting thought. We definitely saw more NCO action in Voyager, but little in TNG.
Exaxtly! Maybe it has to do that Voyager had a very small crew compaired to the Enterprise but there were definatly more NCO's mentioned.
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I like how Janeway busted the
Phoenix crew all the way down to NCOs, when they were all commissioned officers to begin with. Back to the academy when they get home.
Edit: By Phoenix I totally mean Equinox. :lol:
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The vast majority of Starfleet are NCO's. Look at the TMP movies. Anyone not wearing Velor? Non-Com.
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The vast majority of Starfleet are NCO's. Look at the TMP movies. Anyone not wearing Velor? Non-Com.
TMP got the concept but then faded away or something because in TNG you barely saw any. There were some in engineering and O'Brian but not much else.
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Weren't all the redshirts from TOS, as well as Yoeman Rand, also noncoms?
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Weren't all the redshirts from TOS, as well as Yoeman Rand, also noncoms?
I think some of them were but some of them were ensigns also, cause they had no bar on their sleeves
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The vast majority of Starfleet are NCO's. Look at the TMP movies. Anyone not wearing Velor? Non-Com.
TMP got the concept but then faded away or something because in TNG you barely saw any. There were some in engineering and O'Brian but not much else.
There were tons in Voyager and Enterprise.
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The vast majority of Starfleet are NCO's. Look at the TMP movies. Anyone not wearing Velor? Non-Com.
TMP got the concept but then faded away or something because in TNG you barely saw any. There were some in engineering and O'Brian but not much else.
There were tons in Voyager and Enterprise.
I believe they're finaly getting the point that you just can't stick a bunch of officers in every scean. But of course you notice it more with Voyager and specialy Enterpise because they are smaller sized ships so that 80% or so will stick out more.
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And Voyager had the Maquis crew integrated, so you can't really just "promote" them to officer unless needed (Chakotay, B'leanna (sp)).
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Automation!
And after that hologram guy, and even portable holographic generators, this could even be human looking automation. (or Xenomorph looking depenting on your tastes)
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to do a quick comparison, nowadays ships's crew is 90% crew and 20% officers. by officer I mean something around the ST equivalent of lieutenant.
and a great percentage of that crew do generally random service tasks, like carpenter (or general fix-up boy :P), boatswain auxiliar, medic assistant or cooker.
comissioned officers do more specialized tasks like radio operator, engineer, storekeeper, or command.
thinking that you won't need a cooker, a storekeeper or a clean-wiper in the 23rd century, what would be the point of having 50 crewmen to attend, say, an engineering section that with automation and stuff can be run by 20 (fulfilling the needed crew per shift)?
shuttle pilots? yeah, maybe, perhaps 10 or 15 working 4 or 5 per shift, not too many in the end.
scientists? that can be a major need, but each department can run with, say, a chief, two or three adjunts (Crusher/Ogawa? LaForge/Porter?), two assistants and maybe 10 crewmen? per, say, 10 departments counting astrophysics, biology, medicine, and some others? a gross of 150 officers to say the most?
operations? maybe the biggest one, including transporters, operations, engines, security, cargo and stuff. using the same system than science, that would count around 350 people.
what would give an estimated crew count of 500/600 people.
if the Ent-d crew count was around 1020 crewmen and passengers, that would fit.
there should have been more on-screen action of civilians in TNG and less officers, since most of the cre in the ten forward were starfleet crew
also, most of the action passes when the main crew is on shift, what would be around 0600 to 1400 and 1400 to 2200
so it's possible that at least 6 hours a day the bridge and most of the ship is crewed by Lt.Cmd's or Lt's.
...or androids, for that matter
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If memory serves.... was Chakotay and the rest of the Maquis not officially NCOs. They did not have the propper rank insignia, nor were they officially officers.
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If memory serves.... was Chakotay and the rest of the Maquis not officially NCOs. They did not have the propper rank insignia, nor were they officially officers.
your memory serves you right. The just had a field commission.
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I agree! you NEVER here "Petty Officer your with me. However in TNG we did see some crewmen as well as in ENT
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crewman is a generic term for NCOs.
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I think it was mainly due to budget. All incarnations of Star Trek have had notoriously tight budgets. I mean, on TOS the corridors were deserted except for the main cast. I personally don't to see TOO much regarding NCOs, as they are not the ones making the decisions. However, a few more episodes focusing on an enlisted crewman would have been nice.
BTW, TOS DID have a lot of NCOs in many episodes. Just look for the guys in the Dayglo Orange jumpsuits.
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There were also quite a few on Enterprise, particularly the MACO troops.
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I think they should brinf the MACOs back. One of the single coolest elements introduced to ENT.
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I think they should brinf the MACOs back. One of the single coolest elements introduced to ENT.
I hate to bump this needlessly, but two words;
Hazard Team :P
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I think they should brinf the MACOs back. One of the single coolest elements introduced to ENT.
I'd have to agree with you.
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I dunno on TNG I saw plenty of NCO's look for the guys wearing the season 1-2 uniform up till season 6 i belive, those where your NCO's also I noticed plenty of people without any rank pips would those not be a crewman? And we did geta few episodes with alot DS9 Battle of AR513 (i think tahts the name) most of those guys where crewman, bad ass crewmen ill add
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One of the reasons we didn't see many NCOs in trek was Gene thought that in order to be an astronaut they would have to be highly trained, since it was the 60s and space exploration was still a new thing, think about it, most astronauts at that time were Navy and Airforce officers above the rank of Cmdr./Lt. Col. We saw some in the movies, but mainly because of Directors like Myer who wanted a more military feel. Again the first few seasons of TNG were helmed by Gene, hence no NCOs. If I had to make up an in universe reason, it would probably be that maybe it's comparitively easier to get into Starfleet Academy than it is to get into modern military academies, we see children on TNG and DS9 studying Calculus and quantum physics and stuff, maybe there's just a higher percentage of children who meet the requirements to attend.
Personally I use NCOs all the time in my fanfic.
(As any good Chief would tell you, NCOs and Crewman are not the same BTW. NCO specifically refers to Petty officers or Sergeants, not Privates/Airman/Seaman/Crewman, who are Enlisted men.)
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If memory serves.... was Chakotay and the rest of the Maquis not officially NCOs. They did not have the propper rank insignia, nor were they officially officers.
your memory serves you right. The just had a field commission.
yeah, and Chakotay was Lt. Cmdr.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Chakotay_2371.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Vgr_ltcmdr.png
Well.. Memory-Alpha lists him as 'Commander' but if you look at that rank, it looks like Lt. Cmdr.
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Chakotay held the provisional rank of a Starfleet Lt. Commander. As did most of the rest of the Maquis. There were some Maquis however that still were simple "Crewmen" without any given rank. Chakotay while being a Lt. Commander, was always referred to as a Commander, simply because that's fairly customary.
Lt. Commander Data was a Lt. Commander for the entire run of TNG and it's movies, and was pretty much called Commander Data every time.
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but didnt Janeway introduce her original first officer as Lieutenant Commander Cavit in the first ep? :P
Voyager had a number of rank errors in the first few seasons anyway, with Tuvok, Torres, Paris, (and others?)... that did always irk me...
(but that could be another convo for another thread)
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well refering to them as commander is just tradation, Lt JR are still called Lieutenant and Lt Cmdrs are still called Commanders. Even Rear, and Vice Admirals are simply called Admiral. Even in todays Military shortanged ranks are common. In ROTC we had a Lt Col who we just Called Colonel. Calling the full rank is usally for formal military matters where dress uniform is worn.