Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC Modding => Topic started by: serverandenforcer on January 03, 2009, 08:03:30 PM
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I am so sorry that it took me this long to post an update on this model. For the longest time, I could not find a decent tutorail for unwrapping a model. Even the tutorials here really couldn't clarify enough for me on how to do it in an organized way. People who vollunteered to help me out with unwrapping said that they couldn't after receiving the model and that they would have to build it back up from scratch because of how I built it, and then said that they would take the credit for it. I wasn't about to let my work be credited by someone else, so I prety much gave up. Then I went to another site that was devoted to combat flight sims, and not only found a tutorial that explained in better detail on how to unwrap my models. The folks there were also very helpful and devoted a lot of time to help get past the hurdle in my modeling experience. So because of that, I devoted most of my time to flight sim models. It just so happened that yesterday, I began wondering about this model, took a look at it, and say that there was nothing wrong with how I built it. I was able to unwrap it in less than an hour. So now I've begun texturing it (which is a first for me) and have no idea how far I will be able to get with that.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/TopSaucer-bmp.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/LowerSaucer-bmp.png)
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Back from the dead. Urm, who are you again?
This model looks interesting. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.
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Heyyy! I remember that ship!
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Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. Good to have you back Server! Add me to msn, and if you need a hand along the way, just get in touch.
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Indeed. That ship looks hot. If it can get mapped and textured that'd be excelent.
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The only thing that I can think of that would keep me from being able to release this is that I'm using max 7 and it doesn't have a .NIF exporter, oh, and that max is being tempermental right now. I just lost the entire unwrapped version of this and had to unwrap it all over again... which took me a little over 2 hours because I had carefully place all the parts over the bitmaped image. I'm using Paint.net to make the textures. I do have GIMP, but it's difficult to figure out how to use it. Paint.net was easy for me to figure out, and, according to my sister, is almost exactly like photoshop - albeit missing a few features.
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Well, I think I'm satisfied with the basic textures for the saucer section. Now I'm scratching my head on how the 2ndary hull should look.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/TopSaucer-bmp-2.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/LowerSaucer-bmp-1.png)
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My strongest suggestion would be to remap the whole thing as follows (yours looks just too messed up as is):
Feel free to use 2048x2048:
Map1: entire saucer (using a symmetry modifier under Modifiers>Mesh editing>Symmetry)
Map2: Secondary hull and pod (with a symmetry modifier)
Map3: nacelles and struts (with a symmetry modifier)
Optional:
smaller, not greater than 512x512:
Separate textures for the plasma grills and buzzard collectors (with symmetry modifiers)
2048x2048
IDMap
All my capital ship models are mapped this way.
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Mine as well.
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I was doing this on a single 4056 x 4056 and then would shrink the maps down to a smaller level when I would be finished. Just out of curiousity, how can one tell if the maps are too messed up? Just asking so that I can see this and understand that I would need to remap something. Also, I already did use a Symmetry modifier for the Saucer, secondary hull, and the nacelles and struts. The reason why it might not look like it maybe because of how the textures that it comes with from being unwrapped. I exported the model after being unwrapped in max to LithUnwrap to generate a basic .bmp texture (the blue covering with the zigzagged white lines) and then applied it to the model. LithUnwrap does a severe unjustice to how the model really looks. So I don't know if it is that that's causing the model to look messed up. But I will remap it again onto 3 seperate maps.
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Well, did as Adonis suggested. Seperated the whole ship into 5 different maps. Took me 8 hours though to figure out how to do that. Totally forgot that I had to detach the saucer, 2ndary hull, aux hull with the pods, the engines, and the phasers from each other to get that done. I was about ready to throw my mouse at my monitor until I realized my mistake. Well, unfortunatley, because of my error in understanding on what I had to do, I only got this much done. Not really anything new, but it took me a whole day to get there though :P . Oh, and I guess there were a few areas that needed some symetry done as well.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/TopSaucer-bmp-1.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/LowerSaucer-bmp-2.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/TopSauceProfiler-bmp.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/LowerSaucerProfile-bmp.png)
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You can still add the section of deck two up to the where the dark blue is on the dorsal saucer to the saucer map, use up some more room on the saucer texture that you have in spare.
I could tell by the way that you have spread out you textures. When you colored the second one from the original pix, I saw that you started getting messy on your texture usage and numbers.
My suggestion for the plasma and buzzard textures (I am guessing that you have made those aswell) is to make the plasma ones (Height x Width) 128x512 and the buzzard a square (say 256x256 or 512x512, you really don't need bigger - opens up possibilities on stuff ingame ya know ;) ).
All you really need is 3 textures for a ship, the rest is really optional. I would introduce a 4th one if I would be getting variantaholic on the ship (say, different pods, so I'd slap ALL the pods on the 4th texture), and/or do an ID map, where I'd slap all the sections of the ship that have ID's (name'n'shipreg), pennant'n'stripes, impulse exhaust, deflector dish, shuttlebay doors (so I can number them), it really all depends on your scope of thinking stuff through.
You could for example look at my Novi Sad ship pack on BCFiles, she's a fine example of fooling around with ships in this manner. Another (altho early attempt) is my Akyazi V2.0 pack.
Where some would use a whole boatload of textures on a ship pack of 20, I'd get away with about 7 or 8 excluding the extra ship ID maps (Luxor pack for example has 24 ships so far with only 7 texture maps used!) and it would still look a million times better.
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Amazing design here, dude. Always good to hear a project is back on track!
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If it was me, I would use 5 textures for that. One for the saucer (top and bottom) at 2048x1024 (or maybe double that), one for the secondary hull, seperating the curved thing at the back and the deflector and just cylindrically mapping the rest. One for the pylon/platform thingy at the back. One for the nacelle, seperating out the bussard, grilles and orange things between the 2 and cylindrically mapping the rest. And the last for the pod on the back.
The model looks great, though could do with more edges on the saucer. Probably at least doubling.
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very nice ship. amazing design but the deflector-section is whit to big. in my opinion.
great work
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That ships looking good. I can't wait to see her in action.
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You can still add the section of deck two up to the where the dark blue is on the dorsal saucer to the saucer map, use up some more room on the saucer texture that you have in spare..
Can't Adonis. Not without complete changing the construction of the model. That's one whole piece going all the way back to the shuttle bay. And the way I have it mapped out lfor that piece looks decent to me as it is. Infact, I'll post up pics of how I have everything mapped out so you can get a better idea on how I've organized everything.
I could tell by the way that you have spread out you textures. When you colored the second one from the original pix, I saw that you started getting messy on your texture usage and numbers.
You need to explain a bit more in what you mean by this. Are you refering to the actual texturing, or how I have the model mapped over the texturing? I'll admit that my texturing is a bit sloppy. It is the first time that I'm doing this, and I'm not completely done with this base texture for the saucer. It's just the basic layout of who I want it to look. I will be cleaning it up a bit.
Saucer:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/Saucer1.png)
2ndary Hull:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/2ndaryHull-1.png)
Aux Hull with Pods:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/AuxHullandPods.png)
Engines:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/Engines.png)
Phasers:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/Phasers.png)
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Looks good for the most part. Though, I'm not sure its entirely necessary to have each nacelle mapped seperately. Presumably theyre both gonna be textured the same. Also, I would put the phasers on the texture of the bit theyre attached too. Seems excessive for them to have their own texture.
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I'm with limey, put the phasers in another texture to cut down on gfx card memory usage.
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Looks good for the most part. Though, I'm not sure its entirely necessary to have each nacelle mapped seperately. Presumably theyre both gonna be textured the same. Also, I would put the phasers on the texture of the bit theyre attached too. Seems excessive for them to have their own texture.
dito mate 8)
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This is looking real nice.
It's good you're breaking the textures apart... will ultimately make the mod much cleaner looking IMO
Very good work.
Cookie incoming.
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Looks good for the most part. Though, I'm not sure its entirely necessary to have each nacelle mapped seperately. Presumably theyre both gonna be textured the same.
I did that for registry numbers and decals so that they don't appear to be mirrored on the other nacelle. Although, I bet there's probably a way to do that without having to have each nacelle mapped seperately. Again, I'm new at the texture stuff.
Also, I would put the phasers on the texture of the bit theyre attached too. Seems excessive for them to have their own texture.
I'll seee what I can do with that. Will probably do that towards the end of the texturing.
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Here's my attempt at aztecing. Pretty sloppy, I know. Just trying to get a feel at doing it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/Aztec1.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/Aztec2a.png)
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You can still add the section of deck two up to the where the dark blue is on the dorsal saucer to the saucer map, use up some more room on the saucer texture that you have in spare..
Can't Adonis. Not without complete changing the construction of the model. That's one whole piece going all the way back to the shuttle bay. And the way I have it mapped out lfor that piece looks decent to me as it is. Infact, I'll post up pics of how I have everything mapped out so you can get a better idea on how I've organized everything.
Ever heard of the detach function? It doesn't matter how you constructed the thing, once you're done with mapping, you'll just collapse the mesh and reweld the verts.
I could tell by the way that you have spread out you textures. When you colored the second one from the original pix, I saw that you started getting messy on your texture usage and numbers.
You need to explain a bit more in what you mean by this. Are you refering to the actual texturing, or how I have the model mapped over the texturing? I'll admit that my texturing is a bit sloppy. It is the first time that I'm doing this, and I'm not completely done with this base texture for the saucer. It's just the basic layout of who I want it to look. I will be cleaning it up a bit.
Dude, you got it wrong, baaadly.
You're not exploiting as much of the texture area possible, and you're not using the symmetry modifier!
I'm including texporter images of the Novi Sad's maps, minus the Phaser texture (a 64x64 tex that's tiled, and each shape of the phasers is mapped on it's own with UVMap modifiers (cylindrical and plane type mapping)), plasma grids (128x512 tex, same map tech as phasers (cylindrical)) and the buzzards (256x256 tex, same map tech as phasers (spherical)).
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Continued:
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and you're not using the symmetry modifier!
So? I personally find it faar easier to make the thing as a whole than using the symmetry modifier. Though I do agree about the, for lack of a better word, wasted space.
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Ever heard of the detach function? It doesn't matter how you constructed the thing, once you're done with mapping, you'll just collapse the mesh and reweld the verts.
Of course I have bro. Trust me, it will not look right if I detach it from the rest of the hull. It renders out weird.
Dude, you got it wrong, baaadly.
You're not exploiting as much of the texture area possible, and you're not using the symmetry modifier!
Isn't the symmetry modifier used to weld two identical havles together to form one whole piece without having a "seam" running down the middle? I've already done that with the whole ship before the texturing. I did it again just to see if there might be any changes and I only notice a small minor allignment with the textures. I don't know if that's what you wanted me to do.
I'm including texporter images of the Novi Sad's maps, minus the Phaser texture (a 64x64 tex that's tiled, and each shape of the phasers is mapped on it's own with UVMap modifiers (cylindrical and plane type mapping)), plasma grids (128x512 tex, same map tech as phasers (cylindrical)) and the buzzards (256x256 tex, same map tech as phasers (spherical)).[/color]
Honestly, for someone who is just starting on texturing, the way you unwrapped your model is really beyond what I can deal with right now. I understand what each piece is, but for me to figure out a way to texture with something like that would drive me up the walls. How about we just see how far I can get with this, and maybe once everything is finished, I'll learn some better ways to get the job done. I'm not a quick learner. Infact, I times I'm quite the idiot when it come to figuring things out. I learn better doing things the hard way and figuring out better techniques through my mistakes. That's just the way I am. One of these days, I might be able to get up to the level of texturing that the rest of you guys are at. But for right now, I'm here at this level.
Anyways, I rebuilt the saucer section and the phasers. And Included the phaser maps with the saucer map (and there are only two phaser textures to work with). So it's now only 4 maps to deal with. I also re-done the texture for the saucer section (I'm still not satistied with it) and did the textures for the main phasers.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/TopSaucer.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/LowerSauce1.png)
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and you're not using the symmetry modifier!
So? I personally find it faar easier to make the thing as a whole than using the symmetry modifier. Though I do agree about the, for lack of a better word, wasted space.
The symmetry in my case is a part of the mapping process, I effectively only map half the ship, minus the IDMap texture parts. The Oberth is a special case tho, and you have the whole textures source file as the ID map so you can see every single nook and crannie of how I textured that ship.
Ever heard of the detach function? It doesn't matter how you constructed the thing, once you're done with mapping, you'll just collapse the mesh and reweld the verts.
Of course I have bro. Trust me, it will not look right if I detach it from the rest of the hull. It renders out weird.
Of course it won't, since you'll abrupt the smoothing, but you'll put the whole mesh together at the end and reweld the verts, so it'll fall back together and "clean" those errors. The detachments are temporary only, to help you with the mapping.
Dude, you got it wrong, baaadly.
You're not exploiting as much of the texture area possible, and you're not using the symmetry modifier!
Isn't the symmetry modifier used to weld two identical havles together to form one whole piece without having a "seam" running down the middle? I've already done that with the whole ship before the texturing. I did it again just to see if there might be any changes and I only notice a small minor allignment with the textures. I don't know if that's what you wanted me to do.
Can also be used as an aide with mapping, if you get half the object and slap a symmetry modifier on it, and then a symmetry modifier, whoala, you effectively doubled the ammount of space on the maps you can use to make detail crisper.
I'm including texporter images of the Novi Sad's maps, minus the Phaser texture (a 64x64 tex that's tiled, and each shape of the phasers is mapped on it's own with UVMap modifiers (cylindrical and plane type mapping)), plasma grids (128x512 tex, same map tech as phasers (cylindrical)) and the buzzards (256x256 tex, same map tech as phasers (spherical)).[/color]
Honestly, for someone who is just starting on texturing, the way you unwrapped your model is really beyond what I can deal with right now. I understand what each piece is, but for me to figure out a way to texture with something like that would drive me up the walls. How about we just see how far I can get with this, and maybe once everything is finished, I'll learn some better ways to get the job done. I'm not a quick learner. Infact, I times I'm quite the idiot when it come to figuring things out. I learn better doing things the hard way and figuring out better techniques through my mistakes. That's just the way I am. One of these days, I might be able to get up to the level of texturing that the rest of you guys are at. But for right now, I'm here at this level.
On the contrary, that way of mapping would make your life simpler, a lot simpler.
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I think its shaping up real nicely, oh and i agree 100% in what adonis is trying to teach here.
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Ok, I kind of understand it now. When I went back to the Unwrap modifier after using the symmetry modifier I saw what it did to the unwrapped setup of the model. However, if I don't want somethings to be identical to the other half of the ship (say, windows being lit), then this technique would be a problem for me, would it not? And I take it that when you seperately unwrap the ID maps, you just adjust where the texture is positioned in the Edit window in the Unwrap modifier so it lines up wit the rest of textures; but wouldn't the textures kind of come out a bit distorted when you make adjustments to where they should be positioned? - EDIT: I just realized that if you do that, you can be able to make your textures more accurately in whatever paint program that you use because the cut out is already there on the parts, which would act like a guide for the rest of the textures, but there probably would still be some minor adjustments made in the Edit window.
Also, Max locks up and closes out when I use that modifier on the Aux Hull with the Pods (it also locks up and closes out quite frequently in other circumstances too, and for a $6,000.00 program, it quickly gets me discouraged, angry, and frustrated in continuing the modeling process - which really doesn't help me in taking time to understand other techniques - sorry about that). Don't know why Max is locking up and I never can seem to find any form of "patches" or updates from Discreet with these issues and if there are any updates, they're not the ones that I need, and they cost a pretty penny to get.
But after all that I've had to deal with Max on this with unwrapping, I'm kind of burned out with doing that whole process and dread doing it all over again - not to mention that I would have to hunt down where all the ID maps belong and this is the only reference pic that I have of the ship: http://www.startrekmeshes.com/startrek/federation/apollo/1024x768/apollo002.jpg .
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since it's an ambassador/nebula variant, couldn't you use those ships as references?
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True, probably could. Don't even know why I didn't think of that before.
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O.K., I'm still working on this. After looking at the model a bit, I saw it as sub-standard to what is currently being released for BC. So I decided to rebuild the warp engines, the bridge, the sensor dome, and the pylons for the pods (in which I also redid the design for the forward torpedo tubes). After doing that, I decided to make a "refit" version of the ship which involved minor modificatons to the bussard collectors and deflector dish, an upgraded sensor dome, and an up-armored bridge. I also unwrapped the model the way Adonis advised, and it is a better way of unwrapping. There are 5 maps: 1.) Saucer section, 2.) 2ndary Hull, 3.) the Pods and Pylons, 4.) Warp and Impulse engines, 5.) and I.D. / Phasers. As Adonis suggested, I unwrapped it with the symmetry method (except for the I.D. / Phasers). Right now I'm trying to figure out how the textures should look on the 2ndary hull. It's not an exact copy of an ambasador's 2ndary hull, so I can't use any current ambasador textures as a reference.
STANDARD VERSION
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/ApolloSideprofile-1.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/ApolloTopprofile.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/TorpLaunchers.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/ApolloPerceptive-2.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/ApolloPerceptive-1.png)
REFIT VERSION
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/RefitSideProfile.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/RefitWarpEngines.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/RefitDelfectorDish.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/RefitSensorDome.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/RefitBridge.png)
THE MAPS (STANDARD VERSION)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/Saucer.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/2ndaryHull.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/PodsandPylons.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/Engines-1.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/idandphasers.png)
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Much better :P
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Really hope to see this done. :D
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Very nice work mate, love the new adjustments. and cookie for getting to grips with the mapping this early on.. 8)
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Sorry for not being real active with this as I was in January. I went from reservist to active duty at my base, and haven't had any time to work on this or anything else for that matter. When I get my system hooked up and ready to work on, I will return to this.
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Welcome back.!
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Is this beauty still on the drawing board? :)
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Yes. I had gone active duty a couple months back and have been moving from place to place. I've finally found a more permanent residence to stay at, but I don't have my comp up and running yet, and I don't have internet (using my unit's internet to send this). So once that is accomplished, I will be returning to this.
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Good to hear. :)
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I had this saved in my bookmarks and just came across it again... I'd just like to say that I'm hoping this will still get released. Looks awesome.
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this thread hasn't been posted on in two and a half years, I wouldn't hold your breath.
Check the date of the last post on a thread before you necro-post on it. There's a big hint at the top of the page when you try to post on an old thread
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 30 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
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I had this saved in my bookmarks and just came across it again... I'd just like to say that I'm hoping this will still get released. Looks awesome.
I plan on restarting this project once I'm done with my current project. My mesh making skills have improved since I last worked on this model.
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This is what a call a BIG back from the death!!! It was on hold since 2005, as other mods, right? http://combatace.com/topic/18959-my-star-trek-meshes/
I can?t remember where, but you put the low polly mesh online (timestamp is 2005), which I?m using as a base to model my own high polly version of her. :)
Already saw the attached pics of the original mesh, built by Eric Peterson? :D
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8936/tacticalcruiserapollo.jpg
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/4797/apollotop.jpg
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/7617/apolloside.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2784/apolloback.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4172/apollo4a.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/415/apollo3g.jpg
Hope that they are usefull for reference. ;)
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Holy S***!!!!!! I've never been able to find those kind of references. That helps a lot!!!!!!!! If I could give you a 1000 cookies, I would! Thanks bro! And I guess you're also a fellow CA member too!
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Huh.. there's similar ship but built out of Nebula in STO. Everything matches.. well, except the fact that the STO's version is a lot more crude.
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Holy S***!!!!!! I've never been able to find those kind of references. That helps a lot!!!!!!!! If I could give you a 1000 cookies, I would! Thanks bro! And I guess you're also a fellow CA member too!
CA member? I don?t understood... But I believe you?re saying a good thing about me, so, thanks! :D
The renderings I posted above were sent to me by Mateen Greenway, one of the old Wolfpack members. He owns the original mesh, and was kind enough providing me the renderings. :)
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CA member? I don?t understood... But I believe you?re saying a good thing about me, so, thanks! :D
The renderings I posted above were sent to me by Mateen Greenway, one of the old Wolfpack members. He owns the original mesh, and was kind enough providing me the renderings. :)
CA... Combat Ace... the site where you linked my pics from.
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Oh... sure! How could I not understood before? :hithead:
I?m not a BCU player in fact, just a casual observer of the beautifull ships you all are always building. This gives me inspiration for my ships too, usually in high polly. SO, excuse me if it?s a dumb question, but... about the other ships showed there (CA), which the actual status for them?
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They all need to be rebuilt if I want to continue weltering on them. Non of them are one single mesh, unlike my Galor which is just one complete unified object. The Apollo has way too many polies for the lack of detail it has. The Kaldor (which was supposed to be a high detailed replica of a very low detailed model from another game) is a complete mess if you really look into how I built the ship. Same goes for the Merced and the Endurance (the sovi variant). So it's going to be a lot of work to do.
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this thread hasn't been posted on in two and a half years, I wouldn't hold your breath.
Check the date of the last post on a thread before you necro-post on it. There's a big hint at the top of the page when you try to post on an old thread
I did see that, but wanted to post anyway! :D Besides, serverandenforcer seemed to want to finish it, I though I'd let him know publicly that I maintain interest in this ship.
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Yeah, I seem to have knack for not finishing up my stuff. Gah... First it was because I transfered from reservist to active duty, then they had changed our schedule setup to where we were working 12 hours shifts (and I spent that time studying on better ways to build a mesh), and then I got myself a girlfriend. Now I'm back on 8 hour shifts, but going to school. It never ends...
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I did see that, but wanted to post anyway! :D Besides, serverandenforcer seemed to want to finish it, I though I'd let him know publicly that I maintain interest in this ship.
in the future, please dont bump an old thread... if the thread/mod author had anything new to post, they would... if you want to express interest in an old project, send the project's creator a private message instead of bumping a thread from so long ago...
it is just one of those forum etiquette things...