Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC Modding => Topic started by: Mario on June 12, 2009, 12:16:04 AM
-
You know me, I like to create replacements for older tools... This time on the menu is the Tactical Display Editor.
I'll just show what I've done so far.
On the picture you can see short descriptions of what it can do so far:
1. Multi Icon Editing: which means you can update positions, Icon Above Ship value and Arc types of multiple weapon properties at the same time.
2. Icon Linking: If enabled will assign automatically a proper Indicator type or Arc type, depends on what you are editing (added by request).
3. Old Fashioned Editing: Textbox and manual editing of coordinates, incase you don't like the new features in TDIE.
4. Point and click on the screen editing: Click on a screen of the Icon Placement and press Update Position(s) button to update the Icon Location to the one you selected yourself.
5. Icon Dragging: Just drag your arc/indicator over the Icon Placements screen to position it.
6. Load py HP directly, no need to decompile or anything (I thought I should point that out).
7. TGA/BMP/JPG format support. Icons with 128x128 are only accepted.
-
now that is one useful tool :)
-
that looks pretty good. I might need to retire the old TDE. It'd certainly save some steps, like decompile and the nessecity to always convert the icon to bmp.
-
Great! I was just thinking we needed an update to the old TDE. Will it be integrated with BCUT, or is it a stand-alone program?
-
You'll get a cookie and a hug from me. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/deadlysamurai/Smilies/hug.gif)
-
Great! I was just thinking we needed an update to the old TDE. Will it be integrated with BCUT, or is it a stand-alone program?
Standalone.
-
Just Yesterday I thought how usefull something like this would be :) Cookie incomming!
-
Excellent. The old tool needed an update
-
excellent Sovvy! :D
-
so sovvie...how goes work on the new MPE? :mrgreen:
-
I assume that with icon you mean the ship icon?
Since I remember that Dasher included Foundation support for extended arc types.
-
three cheers for sov hip hip horray; hip hip horray; hip hip horray
salude
-
I assume that with icon you mean the ship icon?
Since I remember that Dasher included Foundation support for extended arc types.
What kind of types?
-
so sovvie...how goes work on the new MPE? :mrgreen:
I never got passed the point of HP Tweaker, I've been pretty busy working on couple of projects :(
-
I assume that with icon you mean the ship icon?
Since I remember that Dasher included Foundation support for extended arc types.
What kind of types?
This was included in FTB, in it he had a really wide (covering 3/4th of the saucer) phaser arc for the Galaxy.
The point is that it could be extended.
-
I assume that with icon you mean the ship icon?
Since I remember that Dasher included Foundation support for extended arc types.
Seems I keep misunderstanding you.
I assume that with icon you mean the ship icon?
Since I remember that Dasher included Foundation support for extended arc types.
What kind of types?
This was included in FTB, in it he had a really wide (covering 3/4th of the saucer) phaser arc for the Galaxy.
The point is that it could be extended.
I don't believe I saw that.
-
*launched a tri-cobalt cookie*
only the best for the one who makes modders life easier. :D
-
I assume that with icon you mean the ship icon?
Since I remember that Dasher included Foundation support for extended arc types.
Seems I keep misunderstanding you.
It was/is a foundation module for dynamically loading/organizing additional icon sets, for use in the tactical display.
I assume that with icon you mean the ship icon?
Since I remember that Dasher included Foundation support for extended arc types.
What kind of types?
This was included in FTB, in it he had a really wide (covering 3/4th of the saucer) phaser arc for the Galaxy.
The point is that it could be extended.
I don't believe I saw that.
[/quote]
If you have the FTB mod (somewhere) then it's in the FTBGalaxy.
Should be on BCFiles. (Here it is: http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Favor_The_Bold_Alpha_Release;36895)
[EDIT] The file is scripts/Custom/Autoload/001-Addons-WidePhaserIcons.py
And scripts/Icons/WeaponIcons.py contains another 2 or 3 lines.
-
I see, but actually I do mean Arc/Indicator/Damage Icon editor (all of these are hardpoint properties) which is fixed to what the stock BC has. I really wasn't aware of the Foundation Arc Extension and TBH I've never encountered in a ship mod which uses any other arc/indicator icons other than the stock ones.
That's why your question confused me really. All these years and nobody even made any use of the feature. Honestly, I really don't see any reasons to change anything.
-
I didn't expect you to, I just got a tad confused regarding points 2 and 7, if you combine them, then it could just mean that you supported the Foundation extension (btw, the icon numbers unfortunately weren't managed).
-
I notice some of the arcs (the images of them on the right side) don't look as clean as mark allens TDE. That coulse use some cleaning up.
Also, have you solved the issue of all engine property's defaulting to impulse iocns when the hp loads? Always a bug with the original. SO far as I know they show up as warp engine icons ingame, though I've not bothered to look in a long time. It was only the editor display that was the problem.
-
I notice some of the arcs (the images of them on the right side) don't look as clean as mark allens TDE. That coulse use some cleaning up.
I'm a programmer who wishes to be any good with Photoshop, but I am not :(
So I depend on others to do that.
Also, have you solved the issue of all engine property's defaulting to impulse iocns when the hp loads? Always a bug with the original. SO far as I know they show up as warp engine icons ingame, though I've not bothered to look in a long time. It was only the editor display that was the problem.
Yes, check the attachment.
-
nice
-
one more question. Can arc indicators have some type of calibration so when ever you place the green charge indicator the clear charge arc automaticly centers with it?
-
one more question. Can arc indicators have some type of calibration so when ever you place the green charge indicator the clear charge arc automaticly centers with it?
That's what icon linking does.
BTW check out the beta version at BCS.
-
Ok, I thought tjat the linking was for like tmp where you have an A and B part to each bank and you can put them in the same spot with one step.
Can the beta be put on bcfiles?
-
Check your PM, you will find the latest version which can go to bcf.
-
one more question. Can arc indicators have some type of calibration so when ever you place the green charge indicator the clear charge arc automaticly centers with it?
That's what icon linking does.
Nice! That's something that always annoyed me.
-
I will use this on my next hp to give it a whirl. Another thing I want to know of...does your TDE ignore systems that are not applied/acitve in the HP? I'm refering to only those systems read by the game, declaired in the list, not phasers or something that may have been deleted and not removed from the hp if you fallow me...
-
For Arc Placements it ignores Tractor Beams although they also have same attributes regarding placements found in Phasers i.e.
For Damage Placements it ignores all systems which do not have SetPosition2D attribute.
Systems ignored are just kept in memory and when requested the info is resaved into a new hardpoint structure with the new attributes which were set in the TDIE.
Is there something else which I should ignore regarding Damage Placements, some systems even though they have SetPosition2D attribute?
-
Is there something else which I should ignore regarding Damage Placements, some systems even though they have SetPosition2D attribute?
Untargetable systems like engineering or the impulse engine system.
-
What I was refering to is say you have an HP with 10 phasers. The ship you are doing has 8. So you remove 2 of them. The 2 you remove are still in the hardpoint, but are not declaired in those sets of lines for each property at the bottom (so when the game loads it loads 8 phasers). The old TDE would load all 10, so in oder to get rid of them you'd hafta go into the tempate section of the mpe and delete the 2 again to actualy remove the data from the py file. This applies to all other systems as well. Now, I myself delete unused systems at the end of an hp but sometimes you forget one or some people don't so then they get in the way (you know there will be a bunch of these in the km refebishing going on)
-
Untargetable systems like engineering or the impulse engine system.
That should be ignored?
These properties still get displayed on the Damage Indicators, at least I was told that. I am not an HPer, but I am pretty sure in that.
What I was refering to is say you have an HP with 10 phasers. The ship you are doing has 8. So you remove 2 of them. The 2 you remove are still in the hardpoint, but are not declaired in those sets of lines for each property at the bottom (so when the game loads it loads 8 phasers). The old TDE would load all 10, so in oder to get rid of them you'd hafta go into the tempate section of the mpe and delete the 2 again to actualy remove the data from the py file. This applies to all other systems as well. Now, I myself delete unused systems at the end of an hp but sometimes you forget one or some people don't so then they get in the way (you know there will be a bunch of these in the km refebishing going on)
TDIE uses the same library which I developed for HP Tweaker in BCUT. This lib loads all properties, checks which systems are actually used in game. Those that are not used in game are marked as non editable properties. In memory TDIE ignores them and doesn't list out. When you resave the new HP, the non editable properties are resaved just as the systems which are used in the game. So you get the same HP structure minus the parts which were edited which are the new coordinates. So, the answer is Yes.
-
Untargetable systems like engineering or the impulse engine system.
That should be ignored?
These properties still get displayed on the Damage Indicators, at least I was told that. I am not an HPer, but I am pretty sure in that.
Yes, they do. Every system is shown in the damage icon, even if it's set as non-targetable.
BTW, every time I used the old TDE, after setting the systems in their correct positions and recompiling the hp, the icons appeared in-game a little to the left from their positions. Will this be corrected? It's my main gripe right now.
-
BTW, every time I used the old TDE, after setting the systems in their correct positions and recompiling the hp, the icons appeared in-game a little to the left from their positions. Will this be corrected? It's my main gripe right now.
For arcs\indicators I didn't notice any offsets which needed to be adjusted or anything (I could be wrong however). For Damage Icons I did notice that some offsets are required and are applied. How accurate this is, only an HPer can tell me lol
The more feedback is provided, more accurate the program will be. I posted a beta at BCS-TNG (http://bcs-tng.com/forums/index.php?topic=3696.msg36775#new). I am willing to listen to input provided.
-
As far as I know, the master systems, like engeneering, or the "phasers" master system for instance are not showed on the icon. I never place them, they are not targetable and none targetable systems cannot be damaged by enemy fire. I tested this by blasting away at the fwd phaser of my original p81 norway HP in which for some reason I accedently set the fwd phaser array to non-targetable. Despite firing numerous shots, obliterating the hull exactly on the spot it fired from, no damage indicator came up, and the system couldn't be destroyed. I've never personally seen a non-targetable system show up as damaged on the p81 connie or reliant, and I've destroyed both in battle. Since I've never touched them from defauly, and my current abbe hp is a modified FCA, then those icons are off to the side lower right corner, and I've never seen icons show there on either my display, or the damage display/target menu when I am destroying the FCA. At the very least, add a filter switch/checkbox to nix systems listed as "non-targetable" if desired.
Is there a way to set a folder path that it automaticly looks in?
*auto-load icon? Ie if I load SFPMontana.py then SFPMontana.tga would automaticly pop up if in the same folder with the py? That could be a handy feature.
*It may also be helpfull to make the ship background changeable from white to black. Doing a white tmp vessel on a bright white background is annoying to look at.
*I am messing with the damage right now and the drag is not smooth when holding an icon and moving it around. It's perfectly smooth on the weapon arc display, yet lags to beat hell on dmg.
*the original TDE used a mouse button system for arcs an indicators, where left click selects the charge arc, right click selects the grey arc indicator. That method is more efficient than having to constantly change mode via checkbox below the display. This would result in the nessecity of a dual set of x/y fields needing to be added, obviously, like the old TDE. (icon link makes this somewhat obsolete but sicne the feature needs adjusting, badly in some cases...) One thing that is really annoying is that if I want to place a different indicator on something I can't unless I switch the button. I should only need to click the indicator.
*Fwd and aft indicators are not linking properly (ie missaligned badly)
*Icons revert to original position if you switch to a new property without clicking "apply changes". Throw out this extra step and have the program remember, live, where you've placed and icon. You can save the entire project at any time using the save from the top menu. If you placed an item incorrectly, you simply click and drag it somewhere else, auto-revert isn't nessecary on such a simple process. On the same token, the X,Y position boxes do not update live. Even after "apply changes" they remain at the old values unless you go to another propery and come back.
*Remove the whole mouse click update for weapons arcs. On complex ships, like anything with a dozen or so phasers, eyeballing to simply click and update (similar to the why you place a property in the mpe by clicking and hitting "get position) is more trouble then it's worth. (easier to drag/hover and be done with it) On the damage display it is logical because the damage icon such as a nacelle will be on the nacelle. Click the nacelle, press the button. Again, live update of X/Y as the icon is moved.
*manualy updating of the X/Y has no effect on the damage icon at all. Why is this needed? Multiple torpedo tubes. If I have 4 torpedo tubes on the same side of the ship, I want those little green dots in a nice even line. I am going to want them to all share the same X or Y coordinate, depending if they are a side launch or fwd/aft. Changing this and pressing apply does nothing, the revert back to their old values after I switch properties. Manualy changing this SHOULD have a live effect on the display above.
I reallise this sounds like alot of nagging, but I've HP'd over 300 ships in my time in the BC community, and I can find plenty of reasons to stick with the OLD TDE. In some situations it is easier to use, faster, or allows things to be done yours doesn't. The fact that you don't need to compile or covert icons to BMP, even an improved icon linking wont quite push me to switch. Obviously, however, if you truly wish to make your product superior to the old TDE, I am more than willing to consult on future versions.
Edit: Accedental close saftey block...if change have been made to the display since the last save, a save prompt should appear when attempting to close the program.
-
this is long overdue. kudos.
-
Starforce some of these points are valid and some are not.
I will probably be implementing most of them in the next version, due somewhere next week. And I will want more feedback on it, so I will let you know when a new version is done.
As for thinking of reasons to use the old TDE, Rome was not built in a day. But in the end, everybody will use what ever they prefer regardless of the final look of this tool.
-
I'll be waitin for a new one then!
FYI, if you want better arcs u can get them out of the
Bridge Commander\data\Icons folder
-
bump for news.
-
No time this week, been working on DS9FX.
-
been working on DS9FX.
which is an awesome thing :dance
-
Just to say that I haven't forgotten about this. Tonight I finally got a chance to do some work on it.
So for the moment I can say that the lagging when you dragged the icons is no more, thanks for reporting that Starforce.
I can say that a new beta is coming very soon which will incorporate most of the suggestions made by various HPers. The only problem is spare time nothing else.
-
Starforce TDIE 1.0.3 is done, I am doing some final tests to see if it all works as designed so I should get you another beta tomorrow most likely.
Now to reply to your feedback so you can see what I have done in response to your suggestions.
As far as I know, the master systems, like engeneering, or the "phasers" master system for instance are not showed on the icon. I never place them, they are not targetable and none targetable systems cannot be damaged by enemy fire. I tested this by blasting away at the fwd phaser of my original p81 norway HP in which for some reason I accedently set the fwd phaser array to non-targetable. Despite firing numerous shots, obliterating the hull exactly on the spot it fired from, no damage indicator came up, and the system couldn't be destroyed. I've never personally seen a non-targetable system show up as damaged on the p81 connie or reliant, and I've destroyed both in battle. Since I've never touched them from defauly, and my current abbe hp is a modified FCA, then those icons are off to the side lower right corner, and I've never seen icons show there on either my display, or the damage display/target menu when I am destroying the FCA. At the very least, add a filter switch/checkbox to nix systems listed as "non-targetable" if desired.
By going to File -> Options you can select or deselect "Show non-targetable systems" which will then update live the listbox according to what you specified. This option is remembered and stored for further usage.
Is there a way to set a folder path that it automaticly looks in?
This already exists in 1.0.2. By going to File -> Options you can select a default Bridge commander installation in there under "Bridge Commander Path". To point properly you need to point TDIE to root bc folder (where stbc.exe is located). This is also then stored and remembered for further usage.
*auto-load icon? Ie if I load SFPMontana.py then SFPMontana.tga would automaticly pop up if in the same folder with the py? That could be a handy feature.
Customizable option added if you go to File -> Options you can select Autoload ship icon option. If you load a HP from c:\somepath\scripts\ships\hardpoints the program will attempt to load a ship icon with the same name from c:\somepath\data\ships\icons if its not found no autoload occurs. This is remembered for further usage also.
*It may also be helpfull to make the ship background changeable from white to black. Doing a white tmp vessel on a bright white background is annoying to look at.
If you go to File -> Options you can then click on the "Change Icon Backgrounds" button and you can specify any color you want, custom colors are also accepted. This is remembered also for future usage. The settings are applied live.
*I am messing with the damage right now and the drag is not smooth when holding an icon and moving it around. It's perfectly smooth on the weapon arc display, yet lags to beat hell on dmg.
This part has been refined and fixed so no lagging should occur.
*the original TDE used a mouse button system for arcs an indicators, where left click selects the charge arc, right click selects the grey arc indicator. That method is more efficient than having to constantly change mode via checkbox below the display. This would result in the nessecity of a dual set of x/y fields needing to be added, obviously, like the old TDE. (icon link makes this somewhat obsolete but sicne the feature needs adjusting, badly in some cases...) One thing that is really annoying is that if I want to place a different indicator on something I can't unless I switch the button. I should only need to click the indicator.
This part has been refined which uses now Left Mouse Buttons and Right Mouse Buttons. The Arc/Indicator switch is not used any longer, not in this way. If you manually change the type then only textbox values are properly updated, that is all. The switch is auto applied according to the mouse button usage.
How it works now for dragging:
If you hold down Left Mouse button you will drag the Arc
If you hold down Right mouse button you will drag the Indicator
Updating via Update Position(s) options:
If you left click on the button you will update the Arc
If you right click on the button you will update the Indicator
If Icon Linking is enabled, it doesn't matter which mouse button you use as both positions are updated.
For updating Arc/Indicator types:
The switch (radio buttons Arc and Indicator) don't play the role anymore. If you click on a new Arc type arc is automatically updated regardless of the switch and the same occurs for Indicators the Icon is auto updated.
The No Arcs also serves a dual purpose:
If you don't want Icon for Arc type left clicking on the No Arcs button removes the Arc icon, right clicking on the button removes the Indicator icon.
If Icon linking is enabled it then selects a proper arc/indicator pair for it and clicking on No Arcs button removes both icons. However just changing the icon types doesn't align them properly as their icons are only changed nothing more. To align, if needed click on the Update Position(s) button below the textboxes.
*Fwd and aft indicators are not linking properly (ie missaligned badly)
I have been tweaking that and this only works if Icon Linking is enabled and you update positions for them, changing the arc/indicator types only won't update their positions just their icon types. Now the code finds the center spot of all icons and places them accordingly.
*Icons revert to original position if you switch to a new property without clicking "apply changes". Throw out this extra step and have the program remember, live, where you've placed and icon. You can save the entire project at any time using the save from the top menu. If you placed an item incorrectly, you simply click and drag it somewhere else, auto-revert isn't nessecary on such a simple process. On the same token, the X,Y position boxes do not update live. Even after "apply changes" they remain at the old values unless you go to another propery and come back.
I haven't thrown out this extra step but I have added a new option Auto apply changes which if you go to File -> Options can be enabled. This is remembered for further usage also. Not to confuse you the Apply Changes button is then disabled. And textbox values are now updated live also.
*Remove the whole mouse click update for weapons arcs. On complex ships, like anything with a dozen or so phasers, eyeballing to simply click and update (similar to the why you place a property in the mpe by clicking and hitting "get position) is more trouble then it's worth. (easier to drag/hover and be done with it) On the damage display it is logical because the damage icon such as a nacelle will be on the nacelle. Click the nacelle, press the button. Again, live update of X/Y as the icon is moved.
I haven't removed the mouse click update as some people might actually prefer it. You have 3 options to select from and use the one which suits you best. Also, live update of textboxes has been added as mentioned above.
*manualy updating of the X/Y has no effect on the damage icon at all. Why is this needed? Multiple torpedo tubes. If I have 4 torpedo tubes on the same side of the ship, I want those little green dots in a nice even line. I am going to want them to all share the same X or Y coordinate, depending if they are a side launch or fwd/aft. Changing this and pressing apply does nothing, the revert back to their old values after I switch properties. Manualy changing this SHOULD have a live effect on the display above.
I have tested this part and the program appears to update properly everything without any issues and it properly updates icon positions also and remembers them even in 1.0.2 if you have clicked on Apply Changes button that is.
But the auto apply now is also effective for damage icons, the textbox values are also updated properly. Textbox values only won't be updated if you have selected more than 1 system. No way to tell which system should be monitored. All changes and updates work for Damage icons now also.
Also, as with arcs and indicators 3 different positioning options are offered which some might find useful depending on your preference.
Edit: Accedental close saftey block...if change have been made to the display since the last save, a save prompt should appear when attempting to close the program.
Program now offers you to save the HP upon exiting the program.
-
I am curious, if I point your tool to a non-bc directory, what will it do? I don't install any of my ship mods till they are done (sometiems not even then) I have a folder on my desktop which stores the py, model and textures, and have the mpe pointed there. If I could have your tool pointed there as well, I could hp an entire ship without needing to move files, untill it's time to assemble for the zip file.
-
1.0.2 will refuse to commit changes, however I can remove that check in 1.0.3 so it should accept any specified location if you want... However then custom folders need to actually have a proper BC folder structure. That shouldn't be a big deal then.
-
so it's not possible to simply place the hp and tga into a folder and have that path designated? Needing the folder paths defeats the purpose, which is to avoid the need to open each of those folder paths each time you want to change files. It'd be nice to have one folder, in an easy to get to spot, for instance my build folder for the mpe is on the desktop, and the MPE has both model and script paths set to the same folder.
Edit: Maybe model it after the MPE. have 2 property slots, one for script, one for icon. If you prefer to use your BC directory, you can set them there. If you set them to the same folder...then you can do it my way.
-
4 lines of code added which result in a different behavior of this option. It is now Work directory path, which can be specified. Work directory path actually is used as a starting point for file browse dialog... depends actually if it a bc like structure or not.
You point it to c:\working directory\ which has multiple sub directories file browse dialog will start in the c:\working directory, first it will probe and search for bc like structure if none is found it will start in the root directory specified. When you load an HP TDIE will probe the directory structure and look if this has bc folder like structure if it has it will automatically load a proper icon from data\ships\icons if there is no such structure if then looks in the same directory for the tga.
For reference you don't need to specify work directory path at all, you can just load an HP and the program will also intelligently recognize if you are loading an hp from a bc like structure or the py and tga are in the same folder.
This is much simpler solution and more easy to use solution.
However I will probably be adding another option according to the suggestion so you can select what to use.
Working habits of people are a pain to anticipate.
-
Indded. Everyone is different. I would assume major mod makes would operate in the most eficient way possible. For instance, it would take approx 1 minute of extra time per ship to open directories to get through the various levels needed for scripts and icons. If doing 20 ships, such as my christmas packs or KM hp referbishing ect, that's 20 minutes wasted just opening and closing folders over a period of time. Technicly, you are probably wasting the effort of 3 ships worth of icon work. The most efficient way to do that is to have a folder on the desktop, mpe set for script and model on that folder, icon tga in it and icon editor set there too. Once done, it's done forever, in theory. Mine has been like this for 2 years. After doing over 300 ships you lear where all the time wasting steps are. The TDE really only needs to have the user set the folder where his or her scripts are and icons are. If they are the same, he/she simply selects the same folder for each, just like the MPE options menu.
-
I've added alternate HP and icon directory support. Remember that if you specify alternate hp directory and icon directory you shouldn't specify the working directory location then, just clear it for best possible usage. The alternate locations are what you have recommended.
Icon linking has been tweaked to its best, but it largely depends on which icon pairs you use with icon linking so it won't always work perfectly and manual corrections might be needed from time to time.
-
Well I am currently testing the new version and aside from the fact thatmanualy updating the x and y doesn't auomaticly chnage on the icon itself, it seems to be alot better now.
Can someone explain exactly what the icon above ship does in BC?
-
Can someone explain exactly what the icon above ship does in BC?
If the icon will appear above or below the ship's icon.
Tho appearing below isn't very usefull for system/weapon indicators since they're pretty small compared to the ship icon to be noticeable. But a good example of this is the top/bottom shield icons: the bottom is below the ship icon, the top is above.
-
Yea some seem to use this on phasers arcs too, but if they're under the ship and can't be seen it's not usefull either.
-
Well I am currently testing the new version and aside from the fact thatmanualy updating the x and y doesn't auomaticly chnage on the icon itself, it seems to be alot better now.
Can someone explain exactly what the icon above ship does in BC?
Can't believe it's been three days since you posted. Are you actually referring to the numeric textboxes, you mean that when you update position you don't need to click on update position(s) button it should be auto updated as the mouse move?