Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC General => Topic started by: Anew9 on March 25, 2010, 11:56:28 PM
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Anybody have a good source to Voyagers technical specs? Im still argueing whether to keep my ship with Multivectorial shields from ATP or not. Any thoughts? What ships in starfleet (if any) have the M. shields from ATP?
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well I think that would only be Sovereign, for good source of tech info check Daystrom Institute Technical Library http://www.ditl.org/ pretty good stuff they have there ;)
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Judging from the shield display in Nemesis the Sovereign doesn't have multivectral shields.
It might have regenerative shields.
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well I think that would only be Sovereign, for good source of tech info check Daystrom Institute Technical Library http://www.ditl.org/ pretty good stuff they have there ;)
Kudos, I have been using memory alpha and they dont mention the type of shields ships have.
And with regards to the Sovvie, they dont have MV shields.
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According to daystrom the Intrepid has standard shields and type 8 phasers... looks like I have to rebalance the ship again.
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Be careful when using DITL. I can NOT stress this point enough.
The guy making the site makes up a lot of info.
White text is his own speculations. Green is background source.
Yellow is what was seen on screen. But even then be careful, this guy isn't too smart and he has misunderstood A LOT that he has written in yellow text.
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The promethius us the only ship I know of with MVS.
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^^^The Prometheus has regenerative shields and multi-vector assault mode, no multivectral shields mentioned.
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Multi-vectral shields are an invention of ATP, they're not canon.
Now I believe he was asking for info on the Intrepid - Unfortunately, unlike TNG & DS9, Voyager didn't go into to much technical detail about the ship itself during the show. And even then what little information was given B&B managed to screw it up in later years, and adding on the fact that Voyager picked up alien technology pretty early on, that makes the show not very helpful, so unfortunately you're kinda stuck on speculation. Most people go with setting up their Intrepid as a moderately armed cruiser with about 120 photon torpedoes. I personally give mine 60 (Voyager was said to 38 and 2 tri-cobalt devices, but since it was only going on a two-week mission it could have been not fully stocked). I also remember Chakotay saying quantum torpedoes were compatible with the ships launchers, but I don't believe it was ever seen on screen.
DITL is a pretty useful guide, but like 1DeadlySAMURAI said, do take everything written there with a grain of salt, I'd check memory alpha first and THEN use DITL to fill in the blanks, but in the end it's your game, so go nuts!
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ugh... are you all forgetting about this??
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/star-trek-voyager-technical-manual.php
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ugh... are you all forgetting about this??
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/star-trek-voyager-technical-manual.php
Actually I didn't know it existed :dontcare:
But now that I do I'll check it out.
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ugh... are you all forgetting about this??
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/star-trek-voyager-technical-manual.php
Awesome! But they don't mention phaser type or shield emitter type, and I was wondering how this ship balances against a Galaxy class in terms of weapons and defense.
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You know what the problem is with balancing in this game, there is no set canon to balance to. Like for example: I set the impulse speeds to around 30ish in the ship hardpoints which equates to about 14000 kph in game (this is nowhere near the 1/4 of c that is shown in the show) but I wanted to make the ships FAST.
Now, I also balanced the galaxy class in the sense that it takes turns VERY SLOWLY as seen in DS9 and TNG, I made it more like a really really big brute with awesome hull armor and shields, but the individual systems are very vulnerable. The AI in the game will do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I was aiming to do, instead of going to low impulse it hits 1/2 impulse and tries to make a turn to have her foward torpedoes bear on me. As an Intrepid, I easily avoid her torpedo arcs and keep pecking away at her shields. But this is not a very good tactic because Galaxy's phasers are almost as strong as photons and they chew through my shields in no time.
The problem with balancing that hinders gameplay is when you balance the Borg. I have a Tact. Cube that I wanted to assault as an Intrepid as shown in Unimatrix zero, but when I put the Cubes velocity at 30 with very bad maneuverability all it did was speed away and I had to chase it! So I tanked the cubes max speed to a crawl so I could fly around it while I was fighting (I still didnt last long but you get the picture).
The AI just doesnt really keep up anymore.
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Hardpoint balancing can be a bit of a pain in the ass in this game unfortunately, especially if you're just starting out. I understand you're frustration about the AI, I personally have been looking into how to modify it properly but AI is an entirely new realm for me. Unfortunately the games AI is kind of what we're stuck with for now, so you kind of have to work with it. :(
If you wouldn't mind some advice on Borg balancing: save it for last. Practice on balancing your Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and Dominion first before trying to even touch Borg hardpoints. I personally hate playing with Borg hardpoints, there's usually so much stuff in there and it takes me twice as long to get it to where I want it as it does a Federation or Klingon hardpoint.
Oh and don't set your impulse speeds at 30, actually in most cases you shouldn't go above 9. Also having speeds that high accelerates the "shaking-ship syndrome" that has annoyed BC-players since the game first came out, also those kinds of speeds make fighting in-game difficult, almost to the point of ridiculous (I got bored and tried it one day, it was amusing for about 5mins until I got annoyed and went back to the standard speeds).
If you really want to balance your ships well, I recommend you study the works of Elminister, Durandal, and Laurelin (she did the hardpoints for P81's ships back in the day). Those three are generally regarded as BC's best hardpointers, and they're styles (and/or a blend of all three) has become the standard that continues to this day. Seeing how they did their hardpoints will help you find a balance that works for you in your installs, it did for me :D
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Hardpoint balancing can be a bit of a pain in the ass in this game unfortunately, especially if you're just starting out. I understand you're frustration about the AI, I personally have been looking into how to modify it properly but AI is an entirely new realm for me. Unfortunately the games AI is kind of what we're stuck with for now, so you kind of have to work with it. :(
If you wouldn't mind some advice on Borg balancing: save it for last. Practice on balancing your Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and Dominion first before trying to even touch Borg hardpoints. I personally hate playing with Borg hardpoints, there's usually so much stuff in there and it takes me twice as long to get it to where I want it as it does a Federation or Klingon hardpoint.
Oh and don't set your impulse speeds at 30, actually in most cases you shouldn't go above 9. Also having speeds that high accelerates the "shaking-ship syndrome" that has annoyed BC-players since the game first came out, also those kinds of speeds make fighting in-game difficult, almost to the point of ridiculous (I got bored and tried it one day, it was amusing for about 5mins until I got annoyed and went back to the standard speeds).
If you really want to balance your ships well, I recommend you study the works of Elminister, Durandal, and Laurelin (she did the hardpoints for P81's ships back in the day). Those three are generally regarded as BC's best hardpointers, and they're styles (and/or a blend of all three) has become the standard that continues to this day. Seeing how they did their hardpoints will help you find a balance that works for you in your installs, it did for me :D
Thanks for the tip!
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Yeah balancing is a pain. lol. Its also an art!
The approach that worked fro me is to tweak one thing at a time,see how it affects the ship and then tweak some more.
Make no mistake it takes a long time to do a good hardpoint, but its satisfying one you get it right!
Also try and balance like againts like. If you havea ship in your install of a simialr type that behaves the way you want, take a look at how its configured and it should point you in the right driection.
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Well FYI the phaser type on Daystrom for the Intrepid is wrong (they are not type VIII but are Type X).
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and where did you get that info...
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speculation, and alot of brains tell you that if a Galaxy had X phasers, and the sovereign had XII the the intrepid would have type X or XI phasers (also the larger the array, the stronger)
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I'm one of those who don't really trust that theory.
to me it doesn't matter the size of the array.
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and where did you get that info...
The Intrepid-class model only has 13 discernible phaser arrays with the large array strips being the same type-10 phaser arrays used by Galaxy-class starships, according to Rick Sternbach.[2] Other phaser emitter locations were seen in "Think Tank", "Unimatrix Zero", "Prophecy", "Resolutions", and "Dragon's Teeth".
Source: Memory Alpha
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speculation, and alot of brains tell you that if a Galaxy had X phasers, and the sovereign had XII the the intrepid would have type X or XI phasers (also the larger the array, the stronger)
I don't think so either but I liked the idea of forward 'main' array stronger and the rest slightly weaker (SFC layout like)
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Other phaser emitter locations were seen in "Think Tank", "Unimatrix Zero", "Prophecy", "Resolutions", and "Dragon's Teeth".
Source: Memory Alpha
I write those off as visual effects errors, mainly because those phaser beams were coming from completely random points on the hull (not a visible phaser emitter) and were only seen once or twice at most. It all goes back to remembering the Voyager staff's lack of attention to detail and lax attitude toward continuity after season 5.
alot of brains tell you that if a Galaxy had X phasers, and the sovereign had XII the the intrepid would have type X or XI phasers (also the larger the array, the stronger)
Just because the Intrepid is newer than the Galaxy doesn't mean its stronger. I doubt its as weak as DITL makes it out to be, but I don't think it could take on a Galaxy. I usually speculate that the Intrepid has type IX phasers about maybe 70% as powerful as a Galaxy-class, but since all we have is speculation its anybody's call.
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Other phaser emitter locations were seen in "Think Tank", "Unimatrix Zero", "Prophecy", "Resolutions", and "Dragon's Teeth".
Source: Memory Alpha
I write those off as visual effects errors, mainly because those phaser beams were coming from completely random points on the hull (not a visible phaser emitter) and were only seen once or twice at most. It all goes back to remembering the Voyager staff's lack of attention to detail and lax attitude toward continuity after season 5.
alot of brains tell you that if a Galaxy had X phasers, and the sovereign had XII the the intrepid would have type X or XI phasers (also the larger the array, the stronger)
Just because the Intrepid is newer than the Galaxy doesn't mean its stronger. I doubt its as weak as DITL makes it out to be, but I don't think it could take on a Galaxy. I usually speculate that the Intrepid has type IX phasers about maybe 70% as powerful as a Galaxy-class, but since all we have is speculation its anybody's call.
Ya but the only real difference between large ships like a Galaxy vs small ships like an Intrepid are defenses and armor. I balanced my Intrepid to have equal strength phasers and torpedo type to the Galaxy but the Intrepid has MUCH weaker shields, hull strength and much fewer torpedoes. If I were to attack an Intrepid with my Galaxy and fired a full spread of torpedoes at her front shield I would destroy her. My first 6 volley would take the shields down then the next 4 would take out her warp core (my shield generator is on the deflector so when it chews thru the deflector it hits the warp core -> boom).
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Um, no not exactly. In most cases the larger ships have far more power to play with.
This gives them far more durability in everything from phaser strength to shields etc.
I would speculate as a newer ship the Intrepid has more power to play with as it has a newer warp core, but the Galaxy was continually refitted and I find it unlikely that they would have left it with anything but the newest core (for its class).
This means that the Galaxy can hang in a fight much longer than an Intrepid.
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I've read a bunch of times over the years that the Interpid has type VIII phasers. It makes sense to me cause this ship was designed and built before the dominion war and wasn't aimed for Borg defense (that was what the Defiant was designed for). It was suppose to be a exploration ship with advance sensor pallets, high speed computer, and new warp drive. It wasn't a diplomatic ship at all, Janeway said so a few times, they were meant to explore, and the diplomatic first contact ships would come later. I'm sure they were retro fitted with Type X phasers during the war though
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Um, Voyager was a long range tactical vessel, not an explorer.
It was designed for long range military assignments.
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also it had 40 photons in it's compliment, but 43 were used in the series (not counting YOH, or other alternate time lines)
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Um, Voyager was a long range tactical vessel, not an explorer.
It was designed for long range military assignments.
I disagree, Starfleet was still very peaceful at this time. None of thier ships at this time, minus the Defiant, was geared toward military, it was always to explore, that was Genes vision for the future, the military side was needed but the peaceful exploration always came first.
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also it had 40 photons in it's compliment, but 43 were used in the series (not counting YOH, or other alternate time lines)
Voyager had 40 torpedoes yes, but considering that a counselor wasn't assigned to the ship because her first mission was only suppossed to last a couple weeks, its possible that Voyager wasn't fully stocked on photons for the very same reason. Also there's no reason to assume that they didn't re-construct more or buy more from other races or something.
Um, Voyager was a long range tactical vessel, not an explorer.
It was designed for long range military assignments.
True, for the most part, but the ship was obviously just as capable of exploratory missions as well, considering that even without all that extra Borg crap Voyager still has the most advanced sensor packages at the time, and Janeway came from a scientific background, not tactical. That tells me they intended Intrepid's to do pretty much everything except diplomatic operations.
I've read a bunch of times over the years that the Interpid has type VIII phasers.
That's all speculation, I personally believe the Intrepid has type IX, but since it was never specified on screen your guess is as good as mine.
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I've read a bunch of times over the years that the Interpid has type VIII phasers. It makes sense to me cause this ship was designed and built before the dominion war and wasn't aimed for Borg defense (that was what the Defiant was designed for). It was suppose to be a exploration ship with advance sensor pallets, high speed computer, and new warp drive. It wasn't a diplomatic ship at all, Janeway said so a few times, they were meant to explore, and the diplomatic first contact ships would come later. I'm sure they were retro fitted with Type X phasers during the war though
Rick Sternbach has stated on record they are Type X phasers. The exact same type as the Galaxy class. Intrepid class starships were not as strong as a Galaxy due to her shields and hull armor, but she had equal phaser power, much higher maneuverablility, fastest top speed and Type VI Photon torpedoes. BUT, the main difference between torpedo power for a Galaxy and Intrepid was COMPLEMENT, Intrepids had about 40 while Galaxy had 200...
I don't understand why people keep assuming Voyager was a push-over, it was a military ship designed for long term sorties. She's not a short range science vessel like the Nova, she was a ship with teeth (somewhat). There were NO families on the ship so therefore it was intended to be portrayed as a more military ship than a Galaxy. The reason why Intrepids were not viewed as "combat" vessels in the Dominion war was the same reason that Sovereign class ships didn't fight in ANY skirmish, they were very advanced ships that were more valuable to preserve than use as cannon fodder.
Like seriously, you think that a retrofitted Miranda class could outperform an Intrepid class in a skirmish? Also if this ship was such a push-over, why did they assign one to fight the Scimitar in Nemesis?
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I don't understand why people keep assuming Voyager was a push-over, it was a military ship designed for long term sorties. She's not a short range science vessel like the Nova, she was a ship with teeth (somewhat). There were NO families on the ship so therefore it was intended to be portrayed as a more military ship than a Galaxy. The reason why Intrepids were not viewed as "combat" vessels in the Dominion war was the same reason that Sovereign class ships didn't fight in ANY skirmish, they were very advanced ships that were more valuable to preserve than use as cannon fodder.
Like seriously, you think that a retrofitted Miranda class could outperform an Intrepid class in a skirmish? Also if this ship was such a push-over, why did they assign one to fight the Scimitar in Nemesis?
I don't see how it is a push over either, for combat it is a very capable ship, but I still see it as a long range science ship. I considered since it was a small ship, they didn't have room for families, like most of the fleet star fleet has (minus the capital ships of course) When they have ships like the SteamRunner, Sabre, and Akira, why use it for front line combat, those ships are Much more battle capable ships, but not nearly as useful as a science ship like the Intrepid class is. And about the Scimitar, they also sent the USS Nova, a nova class, and the USS Hood, a Excellsior class. At least they sent a Galaxy class to back them up though
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The reason why Intrepids were not viewed as "combat" vessels in the Dominion war was the same reason that Sovereign class ships didn't fight in ANY skirmish, they were very advanced ships that were more valuable to preserve than use as cannon fodder.
I'm sorry but that sounds completely ridiculous. The Dominion War was supposed to be Star Trek's World War II, and if it were anywhere near as bloody as DS9 portrayed it, then Starfleet wouldn't hold back ships from fighting just because of a fancy computer core.
The real-world reason for the Sovereign not being shown on TV was because Rick Berman didn't want to use the design outside of the TNG films. I can't remember exactly why the Intrepid wasn't seen outside of Voyager (except for the one DS9 episode), but I think it had something to do with Berman wanting to save it for Voyager too.
An universe explanation: Maybe Voyager's sister ships were assigned elsewhere. The Dominion War didn't COMPLETELY stop the Federation's long-range exploratory and diplomatic functions. Another possibility is that they WERE in the war, but just not seen on-screen (DS9 always said there were more ships then were visible on-screen).
The Enterprise was regulated to more diplomatic operations, since the Federation diplomatic core was trying to end the war (this comes right from Insurrection). If there were other Sovereign-class ships they were probably either defending core worlds (Earth/Vulcan/Andoria) or on deep-space missions.
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What about the Bellerophon, it transported Fed ambassadors to Romulas
That was a diplomatic mission
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What about the Bellerophon, it transported Fed ambassadors to Romulas
That was a diplomatic mission
Any Fed ship would have done well then I think.... could have been closest ship for the job. Anyway...
The real-world reason for the Sovereign not being shown on TV was because Rick Berman didn't want to use the design outside of the TNG films. I can't remember exactly why the Intrepid wasn't seen outside of Voyager (except for the one DS9 episode), but I think it had something to do with Berman wanting to save it for Voyager too.
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The reason why Intrepids were not viewed as "combat" vessels in the Dominion war was the same reason that Sovereign class ships didn't fight in ANY skirmish, they were very advanced ships that were more valuable to preserve than use as cannon fodder.
I'm sorry but that sounds completely ridiculous. The Dominion War was supposed to be Star Trek's World War II, and if it were anywhere near as bloody as DS9 portrayed it, then Starfleet wouldn't hold back ships from fighting just because of a fancy computer core.
The real-world reason for the Sovereign not being shown on TV was because Rick Berman didn't want to use the design outside of the TNG films. I can't remember exactly why the Intrepid wasn't seen outside of Voyager (except for the one DS9 episode), but I think it had something to do with Berman wanting to save it for Voyager too.
An universe explanation: Maybe Voyager's sister ships were assigned elsewhere. The Dominion War didn't COMPLETELY stop the Federation's long-range exploratory and diplomatic functions. Another possibility is that they WERE in the war, but just not seen on-screen (DS9 always said there were more ships then were visible on-screen).
The Enterprise was regulated to more diplomatic operations, since the Federation diplomatic core was trying to end the war (this comes right from Insurrection). If there were other Sovereign-class ships they were probably either defending core worlds (Earth/Vulcan/Andoria) or on deep-space missions.
So you believe that the Federation attack fighters, Miranda, Oberth, Constellation and Danube all out class the Intrepid in battle?
Well we should count how many Federation ships that did not participate in the war had in each class: Sovereign, USS Enterprise and USS Sovereign. Intrepid: USS Belerephon, USS Voyager (lost in the delta Quadrant at time of Dominon War), and USS Intrepid. Prometheus: USS Prometheus.
1-2 of each class were present during the Dominion war. Did the number of vessels in each class factor into its participation in the war? I think so.
The Sovereign didn't fight in any dominion battle because... hmmm, well I don't really know why. Why on Earth would Starfleet not send the strongest class of Federation starship to fight in a war where every able bodied ship was needed (as you put it)? Yes I know that Berman wanted to keep that ship in the films, but they could have at least mentioned that the Enterprise or Sovereign was in battle X during the show.
So me personally, I would not measure battle ability in terms of participation in the Dominion war. The Intrepid's were not designed to take extreme punishement in combat as it is more an long term exploration vessel than warship, but it had more than enough firepower and shields to outclass the majority of vessels employed by the Federation during the conflict.
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I think the Sovereign classes were never on the frontlines because we only know of one Sovereign to be produced and still in active service which is the Enterprise. As it was mentioned in First Contact, the Enterprise was assigned to putting out "brush fires" in the Federation. As for the USS Sovereign, we have no idea if it was ever up to the standard the Enterprise was (it was a prototype and not the Federation flagship). The Enterprise-E took almost a whole year to be built (being launched in 2372), the Federation would've been to busy devoting resources to smaller, [cheaper] and more efficient vessels such as the Akira, Steamrunner, Norway and Sabre. The Federation put a lot of effort into the Sovie class, it would be a tad unfortunate if it got blown up. :P
As for the Intrepids involvement in the war, haven't a clue. Maybe their production was cut for the aforementioned vessels? Maybe they were assigned to continuing the basic principles of the Federation; exploration. The Intrepid is more in the dark than the Sovie's in respect to the war, we can only guess and hypothesise.
The Prometheus being in the war is more explainable. It was barely finished in 2374 and it did get stolen. :P
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So you believe that the Federation attack fighters, Miranda, Oberth, Constellation and Danube all out class the Intrepid in battle?
Where did you get that from? I said nothing of the sort so please don't misconstrue my words. Whatever reason you believe for these imaginary ships not fighting in the imaginary war is cool too, since there is no canon explanation your guess is as good as mine.
The Prometheus being in the war is more explainable. It was barely finished in 2374 and it did get stolen.
And was still in the testing phase when it was hijacked. Class production probably started sometime a few months before the war ended. :)
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I need to think mroe about what I'm typing. I meant to say "The Prometheus not being in the war..." :hithead: :banghead:
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So you believe that the Federation attack fighters, Miranda, Oberth, Constellation and Danube all out class the Intrepid in battle?
Where did you get that from? I said nothing of the sort so please don't misconstrue my words. Whatever reason you believe for these imaginary ships not fighting in the imaginary war is cool too, since there is no canon explanation your guess is as good as mine.
These aren't imaginary, they were ships shown to fight in the Dominion war during DS9. I used these ships as examples to my point that the Intrepid is a pretty strong fighter, but it was never called upon to fight (not to my knowledge) during the war unlike the formentioned starships.
Im just trying to get a handle on vs. combat for balancing purposes. An Intrepid should be able to beat an Oberth, Miranda, Constellation and Danube in a 1 on 1 fight. And so far what I have learned a Sovvie, Galaxy, Nebula, Defiant, Prometheus, Akira and retrofitted Excelsior should beat the Intrepid.
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let me settle this-
We will never know
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Oh look, colors. I prefer Caps Lock myself.
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And good ol' red white and blue :D
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And good ol' red white and blue :D
Damn right lol.
let me settle this-
We will never know
QFT. Like I've said before in this thread Anew, its your game, balance your Intrepid however you want. Honestly any kind of tech specs presented here or that you find on the internet is speculation, so your idea of how strong the Intrepid is is just as valid as anyone elses.
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It's a game, it's balanced for entertainment and.. Balance. Each extra ship was added through modding, and when you have a community bigger than a handful, setting a guideline for ship numbers is hard work (I don't think we even have something to say "Right, this ship is agreed to be accurate to X hardpoint as a DN, so all DN's should be somewhere in this region" if you get what I mean.)
Lastly, it's initially made for balance, you'll find the basic ships are reasonably balanced to each other, even if it doesn't fit canon, because playability greatly outweighs the other. But as has been said, it's your install, if you feel the intrepid should be X values, then set them as much as you can within the confines of the outdated game engine. Nothing wrong with using some sources other than the show as has been said as well, but Voyager seemed less consistant than even old Galactica. :funny So you'll have a hard time finding the absolute correct values.