Bridge Commander Central

BC Forums => BC Modding => Topic started by: Locke on June 12, 2010, 04:52:35 PM

Title: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 12, 2010, 04:52:35 PM
One of the main reasons I created the Registry List is so that I could come up with a registry series for my class of perimeter action ship: Sentinels.

Smaller than the Defiant, with slower warp speeds but faster impulse drive.  Highly maneuverable, but less well-armed.  Heavy shielding, but thinner ablative armor.  Has a much more finely tuned sensor field.  I think that's what I'll have that shroud around the nose be, although I'm not totally set on anything about the model.  Any suggestions would be nice.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: deadthunder2_0 on June 12, 2010, 04:55:52 PM
looks like a DJ Valiant
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Bones on June 12, 2010, 05:09:19 PM
look much alike DJ's Valiant but I can already see some major differences on the aft section ;) cool design, I think we need more Defiant evos ;)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 12, 2010, 05:14:53 PM
looks like a DJ Valiant

That was the inspiration, in fact.  This class will be much more of a "throw-away" version of the Defiant or Valiant.  Like the Akyazi, it's main role will be hanging out around the frontier guarding against invasion, or as station defense like the Defiant.  But with a much lower cost per ship as well as fewer crew.  Sort a parallel of the BoP.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nebula on June 12, 2010, 05:53:31 PM
looks to me like a mix between my Kyoto and DJ's Valiant lol
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 12, 2010, 09:23:12 PM
looks to me like a mix between my Kyoto and DJ's Valiant lol

And just as you say that, I change it up a bit!

This ship is meant for minimal crew and short range.  Slower warp speeds than the Defiant, but faster impulse.  Almost the speed of the Valiant.  High-powered shields, but thinner ablative armor.  High maneuverability but low power weapons.  Extremely powerful sensors, but no cloak (perhaps?).

Still working things out, really.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nihilus on June 12, 2010, 10:50:37 PM
That's pretty awesome.  Any ideas for a name or are you just going to call her the USS Sentinel, being the first of her class and all?  To me, she looks like a Gallant.  USS Gallant NCC-96325.  How does that sound?  :D
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 12, 2010, 10:59:18 PM
That's pretty awesome.  Any ideas for a name or are you just going to call her the USS Sentinel, being the first of her class and all?  To me, she looks like a Gallant.  USS Gallant NCC-96325.  How does that sound?  :D

I plan on having at least three ships.  The first is the Sentinel NX-(something).  Gallant sounds good, so that can be the second ship, the first with an NCC.  Then the Arbiter NCC-1048-A.  The original Arbiter was an Akyazi. ;)  I figure: if I'm setting this as a replacement for that class, I might as well do it some honor . . .

I'm not sure, but I may try to make them all separate hull configurations, since the original Akyazi line did that as well.  Not too much difference, but enough that you can definitely tell them apart at a glance.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: deadthunder2_0 on June 12, 2010, 11:47:39 PM
how about USS Elite NCC-100000
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 13, 2010, 12:43:12 AM
Well, I decided on . . .



(That's 99000 in case you can't see it well.)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Hellsgate on June 13, 2010, 02:00:10 AM
Why not put the docking collar/turbolift mating collar on the ventral black area where the lighting is coming from, instead of locating the docking collar in the pigsnout deflector?

Hmm....or hide the access door behind ablative armor, a panel that retracts out of the way like the wing-style doors on a DeLorean while docked / landed?

Interesting design, truth be told.  Is she a Captain's Yacht to another of your past/current designs?

 
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 13, 2010, 04:20:32 AM
Interesting design, truth be told.  Is she a Captain's Yacht to another of your past/current designs?

No . . . just a quick little ship!

Quote
Why not put the docking collar/turbolift mating collar on the ventral black area where the lighting is coming from, instead of locating the docking collar in the pigsnout deflector?

There'll be one there as well.  I just wanted one on the front.  Seems well protected enough, being nestled back from the actual front of the ship a bit.

Keep in mind, it's supposed to be a simpler version of something like the Defiant.  Less room, since it doesn't go for long-duration voyages.  Only four decks, and some of that's taken up by shuttlebays (2), cargobay (1) and engineering.

You should see the bridge I'm (sort of) designing to go with it!  Captain's chair, XO, pilot and weapons in the main section.  Science officer and engineer off to one side, and THAT'S IT!  No extra room for even one other bridge officer.  Minimalism at it's most severe.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: bankruptstudios on June 13, 2010, 08:11:43 AM
WOw, the second ship is frakken sweet. cookie. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 13, 2010, 11:34:03 AM
WOw, the second ship is frakken sweet. cookie. :thumbsup:

 :funny It's the same ship: I just gave it a "nose-job".
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Dawg81 on June 13, 2010, 11:59:04 AM
I am impressed u have put alot of thought into this ship. I was wondering, have u settled on a weaps arrangement yet for her cause i can see her housed 4 fore phaser pulse cannons 2 lateral phaser arrays port and starboard. torp launchers
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 13, 2010, 01:56:41 PM
I am impressed u have put alot of thought into this ship. I was wondering, have u settled on a weaps arrangement yet for her cause i can see her housed 4 fore phaser pulse cannons 2 lateral phaser arrays port and starboard. torp launchers

Thank you!  Right now I have fore and aft twin torpedo launchers, four pulse canons, three dorsal phaser arrays and two ventral arrays.  I don't know if I want to add more, since that seems like a fair amount for such a small ship.  I know the Defiant had more pulse phasers, but it always seemed to me that in-game the Defiant was firing just too much stuff!  And since this is a stripped-down version, I thought I'd keep the count low.

Originally, I had a sort of turret system on the bottom of the ship, such as in the third image.  It was intended to fire micro-torpedoes and pulse phasers, much as the turrets (http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/10-1-2-defense-sail-converted.jpg) built for DS9 did.  I scrapped it initially because I didn't think I had the necessary programming ability to accomplish what I wanted out of this.  But perhaps I can get it working for a variant version of the Sentinel.

Hellsgate: I went ahead and tried out what you suggested, and it worked well.  I like the "shielded" look it has now at the front.  I guess the cover will rotate under the nose when time for docking.  I also put a docking collar at the rear of the bridge assembly.  It looks a bit funny right now, but I think I can fix that with an actual "collar" surrounding the hatch.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Dawg81 on June 13, 2010, 02:36:39 PM
the forward hull sorta reminds me of an achellis class perhaps mount some phalanxes for broadside short range attacks
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 13, 2010, 03:40:57 PM
the forward hull sorta reminds me of an achellis class perhaps mount some phalanxes for broadside short range attacks

I'm not sure what you mean by "phalanxes".  Picture?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Darkthunder on June 13, 2010, 04:13:33 PM
Guessing something along the lines of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 13, 2010, 04:34:02 PM
So something like waist-gun on a WWII bomber?  I guess that would work, but I'm fairly sure the phaser arrays give decent coverage.  I'll give it a go, though.

So I've run into a large hiccup: I've never textured a ship before!  I'm trying, but my attempt so far (see below) is pretty shoddy.  I know there are a few tutorials around, but which would be good for what I'm trying to do?  If I can't get past this step, I'm stuck.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Lionus on June 13, 2010, 04:34:42 PM
"Dalek"? "R2-D2"? Does this mean that most of US and UK armed forces are SCI-FI fanatics?  :eek
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 14, 2010, 01:28:05 AM
Well, it's a start!  At least I've got some nicer paneling going on, now.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: MarkyD on June 14, 2010, 03:16:22 AM
Nice ship  :)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Kirk on June 14, 2010, 05:35:21 AM
I would go over that texture again and make it so you don't have overlapping panels, or make the overlapping panels not look like sheets of plastic laid on top of each other.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 14, 2010, 02:28:57 PM
I tried to do what you suggested.  The right side of the image is the redo, and the left is the previous.  Which is better?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Kirk on June 14, 2010, 04:15:24 PM
That's better, now they look more like panels.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 14, 2010, 04:48:50 PM
That's better, now they look more like panels.

Cool, thanks!

Just to give some reference, here's a shot of the KM09 Defiant next to the Sentinel.  I didn't realize just how small this thing really was until I did this!  Should I make it larger?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: King Class Scout on June 14, 2010, 05:24:55 PM
the way you described it, i think it's perfectly scaled, actually.

another comparo would be between it and GMunoz's Knight class, a TOS take on the defiant.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 14, 2010, 07:16:59 PM
Okay.  Sounds (and looks) good.

DJ: what length is your Valiant supposed to be?  I'd like to get a shot of all three of these sitting next to each other, but I can't find a spec for length anywhere in the ReadMe.  Is there a size entry in the hardpoints of ships?  Or can you just tell me how big it is?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: JimmyB76 on June 14, 2010, 07:44:09 PM
this is the thread for the Valiant, try going through that, there may be some info or comparison shots...
http://bc-central.net/forums/index.php/topic,1523.0.html

if there is no info youre looking for, try PMing DJ...
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: starship on June 14, 2010, 07:50:32 PM
That?s what I call a nice little ship. :)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 14, 2010, 08:57:20 PM
That?s what I call a nice little ship. :)

Well thank you. :D  Coming from another n00b, that seems to be high praise!

I couldn't find any concrete sizing info about the Valiant, just a reference to it being "slightly smaller than the Defiant".  PM time!
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: DJ Curtis on June 14, 2010, 10:44:41 PM
lol.  starship isn't a noob. 
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 14, 2010, 11:01:12 PM
lol.  starship isn't a noob. 

Oh!  My bad.  Saw the 24 posts and just assumed.  And you know what they say about assumption . . . :P
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 14, 2010, 11:24:55 PM
Here we go.  150 m is what I scaled it to, with the Defiant at 170 and the Sentinel at around 97.  A trio of the era!
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 15, 2010, 05:50:27 PM
I think I'm finally learning how to panel well!

Added some windows, too.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: MarkyD on June 15, 2010, 05:55:18 PM
Much nicer.. good job  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 15, 2010, 11:14:46 PM
Experimenting with alpha lighting.  Should be starting on the nacelles this evening, too! :dance
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: serverandenforcer on June 16, 2010, 01:36:43 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Toa_Kaita on June 16, 2010, 01:49:08 AM
Looks great! Cookie!
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Hellsgate on June 16, 2010, 01:59:18 AM
~adds bumpersticker on the front docking collar door, "If you're close enough to read this: kiss your @ss goodbye."[/b]~
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 16, 2010, 04:27:48 AM
One more for the night.  Modeled in the RCS system.  Do they seem a little in the way?  BTW, how does the reg look? ;)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Billz on June 16, 2010, 05:52:24 AM
That reg looks very strange. You might want to put them on the nacelles.

Otherwise, looka cool.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: serverandenforcer on June 16, 2010, 12:10:29 PM
Don't model in any RCS thrusters.  I don't think any were really moddeled in on the Defiant or the Valiant.  And I agree with Billz, that registry does look a bit odd.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nebula on June 16, 2010, 12:16:21 PM
Don't model in any RCS thrusters.  I don't think any were really moddeled in on the Defiant or the Valiant.  And I agree with Billz, that registry does look a bit odd.

no modeled on RCS but they did have a few RCS stickers lol XD
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 16, 2010, 11:25:44 PM
Okay, here's today's progress.  I deleted the RCS model parts and textured the two on the "elbows".  Similar in design to the Nova class and there are only two.  Removed the registration and placed a single one on the nose and the name of the ship on the bridge.

Texture-mapped the bridge area and added MANY glowing windows.  It's really bright right now because I have all of the windows lit.  I need to know which ones to darken.  Definitely some of the small ones on the bridge section, possibly the whole back third of those.  I'm aware that the set at the front of the bridge is really bright, I'm gonna work on that.

Swear I'll get those nacelles mapped yet! :D
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nebula on June 16, 2010, 11:50:35 PM
this is really turning out cool :D
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 17, 2010, 01:13:00 AM
Actually, the picture below is turning out cool . . . :dance

Love being able to load ships from the game and render them to my heart's content! :yay:

As you can probably tell, I "borrowed" the bussards from the Valiant.  Don't worry, DJ: I'll be replacing them before I publish. ;)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Hellsgate on June 17, 2010, 02:16:06 PM
Shweet!
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: GMunoz on June 17, 2010, 09:43:34 PM
Hey, my Archer class made it in there  :yay:
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 18, 2010, 01:27:43 AM
Hey, my Archer class made it in there  :yay:

That's a fun little ship to putter around in!  I think a "modern" version would be really neat.

In case you all didn't know, I love making renders, so here are a couple more.  I'm also very proud of my shadowing.  Particularly the shuttle- and cargobays.  That took some thinking through.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: dEjavU on June 18, 2010, 04:24:29 AM
Damn beautiful ship you got there(nice work!  :thumbsup: )any chance you can do two versions of this ship, one like this and another with the white hull distinction all around, no gray segments towards the rear? Maybe give both of them their own name and registries(just a thought).   ;)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 18, 2010, 10:28:18 AM
Damn beautiful ship you got there(nice work!  :thumbsup: )any chance you can do two versions of this ship, one like this and another with the white hull distinction all around, no gray segments towards the rear? Maybe give both of them their own name and registries(just a thought).   ;)

I haven't gotten to the engineering sections (the rear third of the ship) or the nacelles, so they aren't textured yet. They'll be the same sort of blending as the main hull, but slightly darker.  Just trying to finish off the parts in order from front to rear, so it might take awhile to get things complete.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: dEjavU on June 18, 2010, 04:52:42 PM
Oh okay, in that case then I'm really liking the flow for this design so far(keep it up)here have a cookie.   ;)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 19, 2010, 01:32:20 PM
Do all of the texture maps need to be the same size for a ship?  I want to use 2 1024 maps and one 512 or 768 map, plus a small 256 map later for the registries.  Would this work?  And is that too many maps?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: MarkyD on June 19, 2010, 01:41:59 PM
Just remember the power of two mate.

IE 1024 x 512 etc etc

needs to be the power of two, size important to the game, and quality req... quantity.... WELL the less maps you have the less the cpu has to load into the ram.. so  .. go figure  :D
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 20, 2010, 02:16:47 AM
Well, lots of trial and error.  Mostly error . . .

Just the nacelles left to do, now.  And they are gonna be a royal pain.  If I want blanket textures, I can just go throw some white on there and be done with it, really.  But I want some paneling like on the rest of the ship, so it's gonna take a little while longer to get them done.  But rest assured, I'm fast approaching the HP stage.  And that will be much longer and much more annoying, I'm sure!
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 20, 2010, 09:49:19 PM
I think I have the final textures done! :dance :yay:

I've included an ortho, so if you see any inconsistencies or errors, please circle them (if you would be so kind!).

Other than that, take a look and comments/crits are most welcome.

On to HPing! :facepalm: :roll
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 20, 2010, 11:32:13 PM
. . . aaannnnddd I'm lost.

I realized that I know absolutely nada about scripting, save for that I can edit the python files using a text editor (I'm using Notepad++).  What part of the SDK should I be looking in to show me what all the numbers correspond to?

I'm also trying to convert at this point.  I'm using Max 2009 and I have the import/export scripts for NIF files as well as NIFSkope.  I'm just not sure how to implement all the tools together to get from Max to BC.  Handy guide, anyone?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: hobbs on June 21, 2010, 03:17:59 PM
if you take a hp like defiant which is similar to your ship then you can use it as a template.

i suggest you use mpe its the simplest way of hp but you will need to export the max file to nif then check the node hierachy... i'm afraid i can t help with the max-nif thing. i use gmax and i simply export as a nif file.

if you need any more help find me on msn

i can help with HP and i have the node heir-achy fix thanks to tiqhud i think

my main suggestion is to find BCUT which has MPE (model property editor) and also the TDE (tactical display editor) they will help alot
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: JamesTiberiusKirk on June 21, 2010, 08:34:37 PM
. . . aaannnnddd I'm lost.

I realized that I know absolutely nada about scripting, save for that I can edit the python files using a text editor (I'm using Notepad++).  What part of the SDK should I be looking in to show me what all the numbers correspond to?

I'm also trying to convert at this point.  I'm using Max 2009 and I have the import/export scripts for NIF files as well as NIFSkope.  I'm just not sure how to implement all the tools together to get from Max to BC.  Handy guide, anyone?

making a new hp is too hard for you then. takes a good bit of practise. no offense, editing existing ones is much better to get into hp-ing. would be a shame to see this ship with a falsy hp. maybe ask tiqhud?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: WileyCoyote on June 21, 2010, 11:17:34 PM
Quote
if you take a hp like defiant which is similar to your ship then you can use it as a template.
That would be the easiest to do. It's good practice.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: ACES_HIGH on June 21, 2010, 11:19:48 PM
the SDK comes with HP files for you to edit.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 22, 2010, 09:13:15 PM
It can't be any harder than programming a Flight Simulator gauge file, but I was planning on modifying the files for one of the Defiant children anyway.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 23, 2010, 06:08:34 PM
So I modded the Valiant's files as a first effort.  The ship shows up in the QB selection menu, but when I load it, the game CTDs and I can't get a console report.  What file could be causing this?  It shouldn't be a projectile file, since none of that stuff was changed.  I modded all of the files using Notepad++, but when I opened up the compiled Python files with it they were filled with strange symbols that looked like errors.  What should I be using to edit these files?  MPE?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: hobbs on June 23, 2010, 06:14:19 PM
it could be your hp files pointing to the wrong files for the nif or textures.

icould take a look if you want to email it to me and i can tell you what to change if i can figure it out

njhobbs1978@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: deadthunder2_0 on June 23, 2010, 06:40:27 PM
are you using the km defiant, if so get the normal py from the src folder
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 23, 2010, 07:04:06 PM
Actually I'm using the Valiant files as a base.  Hobbs: I'll get them off to you in the next few hours.  Beta testing the Akira right now! :dance
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: hobbs on June 24, 2010, 03:31:10 PM
right i have looked through the files and they all seem fine.

the nif however seem incorrect.

the node hierarchy seems wrong

see the sphinx which works and your sentinel which doesn't... notice the different nodes in the pics i think it needs the texture nodes are different i think it needs NiImage not NiSourceTexture

Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: tiqhud on June 24, 2010, 04:05:07 PM
Yoy are correct NiImage not NiSourceTexture
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 24, 2010, 04:40:38 PM
Okay, fair enough.  I just don't know quite what that means.  How would I go about fixing this?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: hobbs on June 24, 2010, 06:10:00 PM
tiqhud tells me its when you convert it from mesh to nif... but i dont know how to do it... unless you can send me the mesh i could try and do it myself (no promises lol)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 24, 2010, 06:18:48 PM
What format would be most preferable?  I am working in Max 2009, so I can export to most of the common formats.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: tiqhud on June 24, 2010, 07:09:54 PM
tiqhud tells me its when you convert it from mesh to nif... but i dont know how to do it... unless you can send me the mesh i could try and do it myself (no promises lol)

just reapeting what Ive been told
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 25, 2010, 10:51:42 PM
Well I seem to be stuck, so this model's going on BC Files as is.  I'll include all the documentation I have plus the project files. ;)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 30, 2010, 07:52:23 PM
So now I'm back!  In outer space!  I just walked in to find you here with that sad look upon . . .

Okay, 'nuff of that.

Finally got the Sentinel in the game.  Have a few issues to work out, but she's nearly ready to ship!  Just have to tweak the scripts a bit. ;)

Thanks go to tiqhud, Wiley and Baz for their helpful assistance. :yay: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: FarShot on June 30, 2010, 08:23:18 PM
Sweet!  I'm glad you got past those HP problems! :D
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on June 30, 2010, 08:25:57 PM
Sweet!  I'm glad you got past those HP problems! :D

It wasn't HP problems: those are still to come!  It was that I did something wrong in the conversion process and couldn't figure out what it was.  Now that it's fixed, I'm turning on the "Fasten Stupid Belt" sign and charging ahead full . . .
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 01, 2010, 03:21:46 PM
Oi! :banghead: :hithead:

I can see why everyone says HP'ing is so hard.  Although I can't say that it's HARD, it's just very time-consuming.  Since the system isn't set up to register world values (kph, mass in tons, watts, etc) the only way to know what a certain change will do is to test it in-game.  Of course, some of the smaller things (phaser power, for example) are relatively easy to tweak, since it only takes a couple of retries to get it to the spot you want.  But with something like impulse control or how the ship handles?  That's gonna be loads of fun . . . :roll :facepalm:

If anyone has any useful advice or links, now would be the perfect time!
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Lionus on July 01, 2010, 03:25:32 PM
I've found this to be useful from time to time..

http://www.noswearing.com/dictionary (http://www.noswearing.com/dictionary)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 01, 2010, 03:27:24 PM
Yeah . . . you definitely get a cookie for that one . . . :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nebula on July 01, 2010, 03:39:51 PM
umm I fail to see how that's going to help Lionus...
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 01, 2010, 03:44:44 PM
umm I fail to see how that's going to help Lionus...

It never hurts to have a fistful of bad words (or Data's :P) to help one express one's  :banghead: in times of stress.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: ACES_HIGH on July 01, 2010, 04:02:12 PM
Indeed

the only advice I can think of is to look at the stats of other ships for comparison.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 02, 2010, 01:35:04 AM
After an afternoon of looking at the scripts for most of the ships in my install, a few questions:

Is it better to add all properties on the "Scene Root" section?  I have three subsections (Main Hull, Engineering and Aft Hull) that I could add properties to.  I noticed that most people (if not all) tend to put all properties on the Scene Root section.  But the other sections are there for a reason, right?  Is there some difference between putting them in different sections?

If I do add properties to the aforesaid subsections, do I need to include properties of the same type with each other?  For instance, should the phaser weapon system be on the same section as the actual phaser emitter properties?  Or should the warp core and warp engine power system be on the same section?

Does anyone know what the general relationship is between the mass and rotational inertia in the ship properties seems to be?  I know that the rotational inertia is how long the ship takes to stop moving after control input is released, but to what degree does the mass affect this property?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Villain on July 02, 2010, 06:34:09 AM
You have to put all of the stuff in Scene Root. That's where BC looks or something.  :idk:  IIRC mass is for things like ramming and such. Heavier ship = more physical damage.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 02, 2010, 02:05:54 PM
Well, everything IS under the scene root, it's just also on other parts of the file.

But everything seems to work!  The Sentinel is almost ready for battle.

I just need to work on the tactical display.  How exactly do all the "weapon icon information" and "2d overlay position" entries in MPE work?  I opened up my tumbnail image and got coordinates (X,Y) for the spots that I wanted to have things show up, but they are way off in-game.  The stuff you see on the current display seems to be "expanded" or just off in scale somehow.  Is there a certain way to figure out the tac display stuff?

On the plus side, I personally believe she damages VERY well. :D
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: DJ Curtis on July 02, 2010, 02:16:18 PM
Download a program from BCFiles called TDIE.  It's a GUI program that allows you to place all that kind of stuff really easily by hand.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 02, 2010, 03:11:32 PM
Wow!  Thanks, DJ.  Got that done in a jiffy.  I could have sworn that was gonna be a righteous pain in the tuckus.

Anyway, just trying to balance the ship out, now.  Have to get all the power stuff tweaked a bit and then get the weapons and shields exactly how I want them.

After that, time for beta testing!  Any volunteers?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nebula on July 02, 2010, 03:38:36 PM
hehe I'll try this thing out
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nihilus on July 02, 2010, 03:45:36 PM
I wouldn't mind testing her out. :)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Lionus on July 02, 2010, 05:28:43 PM
count me in.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Billz on July 02, 2010, 05:29:49 PM
Wow!  Thanks, DJ.  Got that done in a jiffy.  I could have sworn that was gonna be a righteous pain in the tuckus.

Anyway, just trying to balance the ship out, now.  Have to get all the power stuff tweaked a bit and then get the weapons and shields exactly how I want them.

After that, time for beta testing!  Any volunteers?

"Tuckus"?!?  :idk:

As Louis from L4D would say "Volunteer here!"  :)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Captain_Licard on July 02, 2010, 05:57:27 PM
I like the design, Ill help beta
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: serverandenforcer on July 02, 2010, 05:57:41 PM
I would love to take a crack at it.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Mario on July 02, 2010, 07:07:01 PM
Not to steal a thread or anything but TDIE 1.0.6 is the latest version (a very rare bug was fixed in this version): http://bcs-tng.com/portal/?q=tacdisplayiconeditor
BCFiles has 1.0.5.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 02, 2010, 09:58:56 PM
Everyone that volunteered to beta before this post, check your messages.  Link to the download is there.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nebula on July 02, 2010, 11:10:57 PM
I like it... it's about equal to the Kyoto... if you're lucky lol
Though I think it's a tad too maneuverable.... maybe tone it down a bit. 

and the scale of the ship seems a little off... wasn't this supposed to be about defiant sized?

I grabbed a few quick shots, I'll post em later.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 03, 2010, 02:57:03 AM
OMG . . . :facepalm:  I frakked up.

At any rate, I fixed the sizing issue, and slowed the ship down a bit.  I also took some of the edge off of the maneuvering so she doesn't flip around like she was before.

Interestingly:

I sized it originally to DJ Curtis's Valiant, which he said was just smaller than the Defiant.  However (and this is something I should have checked) it's actually almost TWICE the size of the Defiant.  So when I sized my ship to be just under 3/4 of the Valiant, I was making it 2x the size it needed to be.  You can see in the images below the in-game shot of me above the Ambassador, and the approximate same shot rendered out of Max, where I sized the Ambassador correctly using specs from the Daystrom Institute (http://www.ditl.org/).

All is fixed, now!  New beta is downloadable at the same location!
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nihilus on July 03, 2010, 04:49:51 AM
So far, I like her.  I'm still using the original download, (It says file not available when I try to download your updated version), but I personally like how fast she was before you slowed her down.  I did notice however the Specular's cause the ship to be VERY shiny in certain light.  So shiny she looks all white.  Pics are posted for examples.  I also have a video here examining the ship and even a little combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGjCyh_7j94 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGjCyh_7j94) (720p)

There would be more combat in the video but Fraps is causing my game to crash when I start fighting.  I can assure you though that when Fraps isn't on and I take her into combat, she runs like a dream.  Easily taking out Bird's of Prey, Dominion Attack Ships and she almost took out a Keldon, but I was outnumbered so I died.  The phasers look great and shoot from where they're supposed to perfectly fine, but there is no sound for the phasers.  I don't know if it's just my computer or not.

Texture wise she's pretty good, although I notice around the windows there appear to be squares around them.  You can see what I mean in the pics.  I believe they're caused by the glow.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: hobbs on July 03, 2010, 12:22:50 PM
i'd beta
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nihilus on July 04, 2010, 12:26:44 AM
I may have found another problem but I don't if this is happening to anyone else.  I downloaded a Defiant Class so I can get the pulse phasers going but now when I take the Sentinel into combat, the game crashes.  I believe it crashes while attempting to shoot the Pulse Phasers since it never crashes when she shoots Quantums or regular phasers.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: DJ Curtis on July 04, 2010, 12:35:57 AM
sounds like it's looking for a projectile script that's not there.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 04, 2010, 12:42:26 AM
Hmmm . . . it should be using KM2010.02 pulses, or the 09 version.  Either way, the Defiant from that is what I have installed.

If no one else is gonna say it, I will: this ship sucks right now.  Needs a whole bunch of work that I frankly don't know how to do.  The weapons need severe adjustments, since the torps seem too strong and the phasers don't drain fast enough.  I can't seem to make heads or tails of the MPE phaser settings.  It's a miracle they fire in the correct arcs!

The turning is in desperate need of some tweaking, as it still overcorrects.

And has anyone noticed how badly it damages?!  The first version I made (the double-sized one) damaged nice and smoothly.  But every time I get hit with this one, I get weird, bulbous holes that crater outside of the original hull areas.  It also damages FAR too quickly.  I had most of my ship missing when I still had 50% shields and all my power functional.

How do I go about correcting these things? :help:
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nebula on July 04, 2010, 12:58:24 AM
don't forget to delete the vox nif... that fixes most damage issues.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Lionus on July 04, 2010, 05:56:08 AM
Federation finally defeated Romulans in a spectacular display of skill in an old earth game called "peek-a-boo".
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nihilus on July 04, 2010, 05:59:48 AM
Federation finally defeated Romulans in a spectacular display of skill in an old earth game called "peek-a-boo".

That's awesome :D.  Quick off topic question here though... how do you manage to get that close?  I turn collisions off but that doesn't stop the other ship from simply flying away to avoid me when I get too close.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Billz on July 04, 2010, 06:11:48 AM
That's awesome :D.  Quick off topic question here though... how do you manage to get that close?  I turn collisions off but that doesn't stop the other ship from simply flying away to avoid me when I get too close.

Destroy the enemy ship's impulse engines. :D Pretty simple.

Locke, did you get my message of the broken download link by the way?
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: shade_30 on July 04, 2010, 06:32:30 AM
That's awesome :D.  Quick off topic question here though... how do you manage to get that close?  I turn collisions off but that doesn't stop the other ship from simply flying away to avoid me when I get too close.

Destroy the enemy ship's impulse engines. :D Pretty simple.

Locke, did you get my message of the broken download link by the way?

Alternatively, you can just use a friendly ship, it will stay still until you aproach it. But if you're stealthed, it won't see you and thus will continue to sit still.
(I used to park the BoP inside a warbird that way back before I used mods =p (With collisions on I might add))

on topic:
the ship looks great, love her!

Also about the HP'ing, I know nothing of placement etc, but I might be able to help you with weapon strength etc
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Lurok91 on July 04, 2010, 06:56:26 AM
Torpedo strength can be easily changed in projectile script (it's also handy to changed speed and lifetime while at it)

Way back when I first started balancing HPs, got this info off KM forums; handy guide for mpe phaser stats:

SetMaxCharge(5.000000)  <--controls max units it charges too
SetMaxDamage(1000.000000)  <-how much damaged 1 unit of charge does.
SetMaxDamageDistance(60.000000)   <--your range. I assume in KM.
SetMinFiringCharge(2.000000)     <---you must charge 2 units before you can fire.
SetNormalDischargeRate(1.000000)  <-discharges 1 unit of charge (I believe this will use
1 per second which means max charge 5 is a 5 second burst) 
SetRechargeRate(0.080000)  <--a rather slow recharge rate. I'd use .2 or .4 for a quick
charge bank. experiment.
 
SetTextureName("data/phaser27a.tga") <--you may change your phaser texture by pasting
the name including extension as shown. Make sure said file is in your data folder.

I never have MaxCharge over 1, as I like the very short phaser bursts.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nebula on July 04, 2010, 09:29:41 AM
Destroy the enemy ship's impulse engines. :D Pretty simple.

Locke, did you get my message of the broken download link by the way?

or you could just beam over to the rom ship turn engines off then beam back to your ship and park there.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Lionus on July 04, 2010, 10:31:00 AM
I just set him friendly and gave order to stop the ship.. and I left the collisions on, much more rewarding to pull off this trick that way.. :funny
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 04, 2010, 10:55:49 AM
I'm trying right now to check other ships' stats using MPE, but there are some ships that just won't show up in the script select section.  The Sovereign, Defiant and Sabre just to name a few.  And these are (with the exception of the Sovereign) KM ships.  The python files are the unpacked version (snakes with closed eyes).  How do I "unpack" them so they are viewable?  I want to see about what textures the Sov uses for torps, and some stuff from the Defiant.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nebula on July 04, 2010, 11:02:01 AM
the py files for those ships are in the src folder.

we kept the py and pyc files sep
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 04, 2010, 12:36:53 PM
I'm playing with the weapons sets right now, and I came across a small problem: how do I figure out where the original files came from?  Unless I use absolutely STOCK stuff, I need to get permissions.  I don't want someone coming back at me a month from now and complaining that I stole their stuff when I couldn't figure out where it came from.  The textures and scripts I can probably work out on my own.  I can create my own versions of those, but I don't know much about sound editing.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: DJ Curtis on July 04, 2010, 02:12:14 PM
People release them for you to use with your ships.  Don't worry about it.  Give credit.

You said you were having trouble figuring out the phaser arcs.  Here's a little tutorial.  Set up a basic phaser, don't change anything, and you'll quickly see how it works. 

Feel free to ask questions if you need clarification on anything specific.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 04, 2010, 03:55:08 PM
Thanks, DJ!  Graphical instruction is always helpful . . .

I think I've got all of that, now. :dance

Should have the weapons done by the end of the afternoon, here.  New beta will be ready for the interested parties by nightfall.  I'll send you all a note when it's uploaded.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nihilus on July 04, 2010, 04:38:53 PM
Thanks, DJ!  Graphical instruction is always helpful . . .

I think I've got all of that, now. :dance

Should have the weapons done by the end of the afternoon, here.  New beta will be ready for the interested parties by nightfall.  I'll send you all a note when it's uploaded.

Sounds fun :)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 04, 2010, 04:58:46 PM
N00b moments . . . yaaaayyyy . . . .

I don't know how to read the MPE phaser settings for the beam.  As in: what are "Taper min length" and "Taper max length"?  Do they refer to how far from the emitter the beam starts to taper and stops tapering?  What is "Taper radius"?  The rest is fairly self-explanatory.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 05, 2010, 01:40:46 PM
ATTENTION BETA TESTERS:

If you have any concerns, now's the time.  I'm gonna publish this afternoon. ;)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Captain_Licard on July 05, 2010, 02:58:40 PM
Everything checks out, I had a bit of a hard time against the dominion in DS9FX Extended (stupid Life-Support) other wise she is gotta be the fastest little scince the defiant, Good Job
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 05, 2010, 03:21:35 PM
Oh, I could also use a couple of more screenshots if anyone has the time! :kiss:
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Billz on July 05, 2010, 04:16:35 PM
ATTENTION BETA TESTERS:

If you have any concerns, now's the time.  I'm gonna publish this afternoon. ;)

How about the concern that I never got a fixed link to the beta download. :(
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Dalek on July 05, 2010, 04:19:26 PM
Wouldn't some of the beta testing conversations best be sent using PMs? If I were Locke and I read that just now I'd be a tad embarassed.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Nebula on July 05, 2010, 04:21:36 PM
How about the concern that I never got a fixed link to the beta download. :(

eh?? I think it uses the same link as the old.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Captain_Licard on July 05, 2010, 04:45:45 PM
Here are some screenies I just took, as far as the download link, the one I just received works fine.
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 05, 2010, 05:35:20 PM
Wouldn't some of the beta testing conversations best be sent using PMs? If I were Locke and I read that just now I'd be a tad embarassed.

I don't feel embarrassment.  Ever.

Sorry about that, Billz.  Guess I missed your name on the last PM I sent.  My apologies, sir. :angel

EDIT: I was about to send you the link, and then I realized that the upload to BC Files will be a tweaked version with better textures.  So I'll set that up at 4shared and send you THAT link. ;)
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Billz on July 05, 2010, 05:52:44 PM
I don't feel embarrassment.  Ever.

Sorry about that, Billz.  Guess I missed your name on the last PM I sent.  My apologies, sir. :angel

EDIT: I was about to send you the link, and then I realized that the upload to BC Files will be a tweaked version with better textures.  So I'll set that up at 4shared and send you THAT link. ;)

You have absolutly nothing to apologise for. I should be apologising for being a petty a$$. I didn't mean to try to embarress you.  :(
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: TheConstable6 on July 08, 2010, 08:19:08 PM
Locke, your ship is stunning and handles very true in-game. Now DJ's Valiant isn't an automatic lock every time I want to play with a rabid hyperactive ferret  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sentinel Class
Post by: Locke on July 08, 2010, 08:42:15 PM
Why thank you, Patrick. :thumbsup:  That was the intention, sort of.