Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC General => Topic started by: sovereign001 on May 22, 2012, 12:22:00 PM
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I'm gonna be honest here, call me an arrogant bastard as i've heard before..
i'm posting as you've noticed a lot less, because:
a) i'm getting less satisfied with my screenshots.
b) i don't feel like doing it anymore with all the stupid stuff that went on the couple weeks ago here (the merging of the threads etc)
c) Feds, feds and feds. That's the only stuff these days that is getting released. Klingons could get a nice remastering (look at the bop i'm using, lint's way too big and it isn't an a solid texture). The Galor class that was a project, has also disappeared, the star destroyers have also disappeared, TU did the warbird which is delicious! I don't see the point of taking pictures for the coming months as good ships are just getting redone and having already six, seven or eighth almost identical versions of well-known ships. There are tons of vessels that could get a remaster:
galor
hideki
keldon
dreadnought weapon
cardassian starbase
klingon bop
klingon vorcha
klingon negh'var
romulan bop (old one)
hirogen venatic ship
jem'hadar bugship
jem'hadar battlecruiser
jem'hadar battleship
starbase 375
and so on...
When modders perhaps start on this, taking screenshots is a possibility again, but taking screenshots of the same ships again is just boring, no fun.
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Sovie I understand where you are coming from but until we learn to mod ourselves we have to live with what the other guys want to model.
But don't give up! Please! I hit a wall the other day but you'll overcome it
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I'm able to model, i just don't have the time or the lust to do it. I'm working as we speak on my thesis for graphic & design and after this i'm going for master in application development. So again no time.
I hope modders will see the light some day and understand that making five versions of a connie, galaxy, sovereign or whatever isn't helpful. Yes, they look good but now i'm sitting with a dj galaxy, wiley galaxy, baz galaxy, wiley connie, baz conie + 50 other connies, soon baz sovereign, now wiley fc and nemesis sovereign, dj sovereign, etc. And to be honest, they all look beautiful but somehow, all the same.. I'm almost having a feeling that modders are doing a contest, a battle between themselve to show off. Meanwhile, we have all the same ships, with the same scripts almost etc.
The star trek galaxy has tons of alien vessels that haven't been modded yet, but it seems that it only consists out of fed ships here. There are tons of alpha, gamma, delta and beta quadrant vessel that could be modded where we can create beautiful shots from.
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Cookie for this post Sov. I'm in full agreement with you on this. As great as some of these ships are the best to come out in awhile was DJ's Damar. It was different and beautiful at the same time. I do enjoy some of the original Fed work coming out but some remastered Alien ships or hell even new designs would be great to see.
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Yep, I know, I actually was responding to his first post at the exact same time as he was composing the reason why. It just "crossed in the mail" so to speak.
I understand Sov's reasons and agree with him mostly but... I run into those same feelings as he has myself sometimes - so what I do is try to use less seen/used ships in my screenshots for the most part. Also, you'll notice that the frequency of my posting pics aren't as much as you guys. You, Sov, & Kill have some awesome stuff but I just don't post as much because many times, I'm too caught up with just having the time to even play the game and enjoy it. On occasion, a particular scene might inspire me to decide that this is a nice place to take a screenshot so, I go ahead and set up the angles. But once again, when I have the time (which is less and less these days :( ) I like to just play.
Cheers!
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For BC gameplay I'm on the Aftermath mod, really adds to the game, i'd like to see some more packs one day. Though after a hard day a couple of screenshots don't hurt. We could do with some more Alien ships though. :)
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I'm gonna be honest here, call me an arrogant bastard as i've heard before..
i'm posting as you've noticed a lot less, because:
a) i'm getting less satisfied with my screenshots.
b) i don't feel like doing it anymore with all the stupid stuff that went on the couple weeks ago here (the merging of the threads etc)
c) Feds, feds and feds. That's the only stuff these days that is getting released. Klingons could get a nice remastering (look at the bop i'm using, lint's way too big and it isn't an a solid texture). The Galor class that was a project, has also disappeared, the star destroyers have also disappeared, TU did the warbird which is delicious! I don't see the point of taking pictures for the coming months as good ships are just getting redone and having already six, seven or eighth almost identical versions of well-known ships. There are tons of vessels that could get a remaster:
galor
hideki
keldon
dreadnought weapon
cardassian starbase
klingon bop
klingon vorcha
klingon negh'var
romulan bop (old one)
hirogen venatic ship
jem'hadar bugship
jem'hadar battlecruiser
jem'hadar battleship
starbase 375
and so on...
When modders perhaps start on this, taking screenshots is a possibility again, but taking screenshots of the same ships again is just boring, no fun.
I think we ought to remind you right now: Everyone is moving to Excalibur! the reason there's all those feddies? because the people here are the only ones making mods right now!
everything you just mentioned is probably being put together RIGHT NOW for excalibur.
buck up, kid, it's all BEING done..at once, but we won't see it till excalibur, and I thinkit'll take a while before we see it, despite what a lot of people think. it's like JB and Limeys Delta Quadrant pack... when it's done.
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Cookie for this post Sov. I'm in full agreement with you on this. As great as some of these ships are the best to come out in awhile was DJ's Damar. It was different and beautiful at the same time. I do enjoy some of the original Fed work coming out but some remastered Alien ships or hell even new designs would be great to see.
I agree. Even so, it doesn't need to be star trek ships. Babylon 5 ships, wing commander vessels, andromeda vessels, stargate vessels. The universe is full with ships, so its not about being creative.
The DQP is in my disposal, it has some nice and creative systems and ships. It is already a good step in the direction that me and others are looking forward to.
@Moed,
It's nice that you also agree with the reasons, and i'm sure that perhaps 70 % if not more agrees with me, but no one has the balls to say it because they are afraid they will hurt the modders. I don't want to hurt them either, they keep the game alive, but by making the same ships or always the same race isn't.
@King, i'm not bucking up or whatever you say, i'm entitled to have my own opinion. And as you could see, there are already a few who agree (and the ones who left this community agreed with me too).
There are still enough modders here active on this community that aren't in excalibur.
MC and ewok, have fun with taking future screenshots ;)
PS: Please, don't pm me with nerd mails about anger and about arrogance or whatever... I'm just giving an opinion that has been said a lot behind the scenes.
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LOL I sometimes wonder whether the modders on here are all sheep :P
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JB, baby, keep pumping stuff like the DQP. Love it!
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JB, baby, keep pumping stuff like the DQP. Love it!
Retired mate :P The only thing I've got sitting on my hdd which you guys don't have is a Utopia Planitia Shipyards map ;) Like you know I only work on Excalibur now
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i personally am so tired of listening to people whine and complain... so sick of the negativity...
either do something about it by making contributions, or be glad with what you have... quitting on the community because of such things is just selfish... quitting on the community due to lack of time and desire is fine and understandable - then leave it at that and dont bother bitching about what the community lacks or what modders are/arent doing as you want them to...
and since the point of the screenshots threads being merged was brought up - after all the bullshit and strife (more instances of people whining and complaining...) that i received for trying to keep things proper with multiple threads, i was left with no choice... people decided to throw a tantrum, create a colossal debate and bullshit drama filled with disrespect to me, so this is the end result... i have been so patient the last several months, trying to be understanding and polite to everyone... anyone that knows me from before and way back to BCU knows how quickly i can go into bitch-mode with an iron fist and not take any shit from anyone anywhere, and maybe that element in my personality should be more apparent more often...
and please note that this post isnt directed to you in a personal way, sov, or to anyone - im just venting... it is disappointing to hear someone is quitting because they arent satisfied with modders and their work... for the last 10 years, i have seen it hundreds of times where people would complain because modders arent doing other things and i personally have zero tolerance and patience for that, it is very disrespectful...
and in case anyone hasnt noticed, BC is in its final days so of course things are dwindling down rapidly... if not for modders like baz, dj, wiley, etc there would be no need for this forum really anymore... so even if they are all doing the ssame ships over and over, it is because they want to and that should be appreciated and accepted with gratitude and they shouldnt be given any flack because they arent doing different things...
once excalibur is completed and public, it will be a whole new environment, a whole new community (with all of us and many many others from other trek gaming communities), a whole new modding scene that will be extremely active and major, and it will be bigger than BC ever was in its prime... until then, this is what we have so it is better to be supportive to modders still keeping this thing alive than it is to be disappointed with them...
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So it was mentioned in the BC Screenshots thread (by the way, thank you Jimmy for getting it back on topic) that there are too many Fed ships, too many Connies, too many Galaxies, et cetera, et cetera... I think someone needs to make a certain point absolutely clear...
We modders mod only when we have the time, patience, and desire to do so.
We are not game developers. We have no obligation to ourselves, the community, or anyone to mod certain ships or reflect the variety of ships in the Star Trek universe. If I were commissioned to make a ship then stop at 99% and say "eff you" to the requester, I am perfectly within my rights to do so.
We mod the ships that we want too. If I wanted to make thirty different Sovereign classes instead of one "flying turd" Galor, I can damn well please. Also, there's a reason it's a rule here not to ask for status updates. We modders have real lives to deal with, and maybe dropping a project is the best thing for us to do, whether the BC community likes it or not.
I agree that ships like the B'rel are completely under-represented in the array of downloads available at BCF. But that gives me only the smallest bit more reason to tackle it. I simply like the design possibilities of Fed ships about a hundred times more. So screw me for wanting to sketch beautiful Federation starships all day.
Also, another thing for Jimmy. You do wonderful work here maintaining BCC. I know you don't really mod, but I have to point out something. You don't complain. The occasional comment about what might work better for a certain design is perfectly awesome. That of course is completely different from insulting the work of every active modder, which certain members of the community are doing by complaining about the mods released in these waning days of BC.
Alright, I think I have that off my chest. Don't worry Flarespire, the Inferno will be done someday. Just waiting on Bones to get back to me on how animated and transparent textures are working out for him. :P
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I couldn't agree more with you Farshot.
Points I was trying to make but from the user of mods side of the fence. Everyone here works so hard to keep the game alive and I thank you all.
No one is saying that you have to download every Galaxy class released or Connie released. I am very select about what I have on my install and that is reflected in my screen shots.
So much great work on here.
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ok ive split the posts from the Screenshot Thread regarding this subject, and merged it with the one that Farshot just made, so this conversation can continue...
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ok ive split the posts from the Screenshot Thread regarding this subject, and merged it with the one that Farshot just made, so this conversation can continue...
Ah, well played, Jimmy, well played...
Also, another point, inspired by something Jimmy said:
and in case anyone hasnt noticed, BC is in its final days so of course things are dwindling down rapidly... if not for modders like baz, dj, wiley, etc there would be no need for this forum really anymore... so even if they are all doing the ssame ships over and over, it is because they want to and that should be appreciated and accepted with gratitude and they shouldnt be given any flack because they arent doing different things...
All of us modders could easily go over to Excalibur and ask to help out, heck, DJ already did, and leave BC for good. I don't, personally, because I know I or someone else will port my ships over anyways. Heck, if I had my way, I'd much rather have all you users of our ships grovelling at our feet saying thank you for sticking around when so many have moved on. BC is so old for a game. It's astounding that it is still being modded after ten years. Few other games can say that. I would have moved on if there were a good Star Trek game only partly like BC. Hell, I'd be playing STO if I didn't forget my username and password.
Really, the line feels that thin - only a login button is separating me from dropping modding BC. At max, there's like a dozen active modders here, and the community is damn lucky if they each put out a mod a month.
So in summary, be thankful for what you do have - us modders - instead of what you don't, a new B'rel. (Which Phoenix is working on for Invasion, I believe.)
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Farshot, instead of flaming at me, you better be talking in general.
I'm just saying that there could be more variety in the modding. I never attacked anyone. If i thought the work was crappy, i wasn't spending like half an hour every two days making a nice screenshot. If there are people talking about it but just don't want to mention it because they know that people will react like you in hatred against them, no one will ever know. So i brought it up for discussion.
But perhaps it is good that other people will see what kind of reaction will occur if they just say their opinion.
And don't worry, you won't be seeing any b'rell or whatever shots from me ;)
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We are grateful! I think I speak for every member of the forum.
THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!! :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
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If I wanted to flame you I'd be telling you to quit bitching and mod your own damn ships. On the contrary, I'm happy to satisfy the community. And I'm not meaning to target you specifically, but you brought up this discussion, so I'd expect that when people reply, they'd reply to the original poster.
Now as for attacking anyone... You're right in that you targeted no one. However, by saying that you're giving up on this BC screenshot community because the modding half (really, tenth) of it is ruining it for you, well frankly it feels like a slap in the face. Like for instance Jimmy, he felt offended that people were complaining about the screenshot threads, even though they weren't mad at him. Us "parents" are proud of our "children", so if they get attacked, you can be damn sure we're going to defend.
As for reaction to saying an opinion... Let's look at the First Amendment. Yes you have your freedom to speak your opinion.
PART 2: We have our freedom to speak our opinion of your opinion.
Not much more needs to be said of that. You should expect a reaction from saying something. That's what forums are for.
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Well here is my 10 cents. I can only speak for myself but I'm a star trek fan first and foremost. I have given myself the personnel mission of building all the Enterprise's. As you guys know the 1701-E is under way and my excelsior will be modded in to the 1701-B.
But let's not forget in the last 18 months I have released as a member of SFRD. 4 Klingon ships and 1 Romulan. Also a Cardassion station in the form of DS9, and tholians. I have also started a Klingon BOP but nothing worth showing yet as still in the research stage. I also will be building a fed ship based on the sov and possibly doing a nebula class but also might do ferengi maurader.
So until Excalibur is up and running I'm not planning on going anywhere. And hopefully I can continue there as well.
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Well here is my 10 cents. I can only speak for myself but I'm a star trek fan first and foremost. I have given myself the personnel mission of building all the Enterprise's. As you guys know the 1701-E is under way and my excelsior will be modded in to the 1701-B.
But let's not forget in the last 18 months I have released as a member of SFRD. 4 Klingon ships and 1 Romulan. Also a Cardassion station in the form of DS9, and tholians. I have also started a Klingon BOP but nothing worth showing yet as still in the research stage. I also will be building a fed ship based on the sov and possibly doing a nebula class but also might do ferengi maurader.
So until Excalibur is up and running I'm not planning on going anywhere. And hopefully I can continue there as well.
I love your work baz, your station is placed as gold in my bc map. Your d7 is also fantastic, so i hope you will continue making beauties like this ;)
@farshot: if i had the lust to model i will do it. For my 3d graphics, i created in a week between other stuff actually the jupiter station and i never touched 3d programs, except lightwave to make 3d movies.
The reason i'm not creating any screenshots these months, is because i don't see the need, variety in it anymore.
Mc and Kill can take it over if they wish ;)
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yer i am trying (big word on trying) to build a B'rel BOP for the mod :D but also have a dominion bug in the works - but basically sov001 your moaining about too many this and too many that right?? but what about my new connie (tos) and all the other TOS stuff im working on. I'm only new and trying to show off my stuff so one day i'll be like baz wiley dj and farshot. but why would i do somthing i dont want too to learn?? i mean if i was stuck doing things i didn't wanna do i never would of gotten into modeling.. i mean yer learn modding by doing something i don't like - Wouldn't that be like a job?? and im deffently not getting paid for it...Personally I'm making loads of tos stuff as i feel there's not much out there - except the real connie - ok so baz wiley and every other bugger has done one - but why can't i, like the freedom of speech, i can build what i like when i like how i like.. no one is forced to download it. sov you go say you won't take any screenshots of my b'rel just coz farshot said somthing he was right in saying..
Look at this in this prosective with out any of us. the GAME WOULD BE DEAD BY NOW ... enjoy what you're given and live with it., or learn how to do it your self i would like to think we're all adults here and we shouldn't have to resort to all this bitchyness!
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I guess I'll sum up my side by saying the age old adage...
Beggars can't be choosers.
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... we're not having this discussion, are we ???
sorry lads if I say it but that whole variety issue smells like horse crap to me... after all it's about a dozen of modders who keep this game alive, I've been getting emails about last ships released (Exeter and Vendetta) that they are yet another spinoffs from connie and defiant, or 'who-do-you-think-we-are-to-fly-fed-ships-onnly' attitude...
I'm with Jimmy here, i'm sick ofthe whining.
why do we even discuss this ? wouldn't be easier to just make request (which most modders do not take anyway due to time limitations)
but who am I kidding... nowadays people accuse modders that they are lazy and lack imagination because you know we're getting paid for this stuff, that's why we work on 10 years old game, it's all about money ... oh wait ... it isn't, silly us, modders, we waste our time for free and get bashed during the process ... (that's the risk tobe taken, I know, haters gonna hate anyway)
I've learnt this new cool attitude after recent argument in BCF download section (forementioned Exeter and Vendetta class) towrds comments like 'you guys are dumb, 'you lack imagination' or 'you always build everything upon connie' ... this attitude is called : "like I give a f**k/frak" "deal with it" attitude comes next and Ithink this is the best place to apply itso I'll say it :D
Deal with it :D
I don't mean to be troll or ass, just figured out I'll say out loud what's grinding my gears ;)
thank you for your attention.
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Oke then.
Last edit and last post:
i find it very sad almost pathetic, that a message placed by the messenger(someone that has the balls to stand up and post a well-shared opinion) gets soo much hatred. I'm not attacking any modders, i even thanked them for the beautiful ships, hence the screenshots. I even sent wiley, a week ago a pm if he wanted some graphical help for advertising his new mod. I gave myself up for the testing for JB's pack.
The message only asked that there could be in the future, perhaps more variety in the ships. Different races. I don't even think that this is wrong?
Still, i (and the others) know enough.
PS: the raise in my cookie bar since these posts, says enough.
Grtz Sov.
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I can understand Sovereign001's opinion. DJ, Baz, and myself seem to be releasing mostly Fed ships.
If anyone is new to the modding/modeling scene, they will most likely build the very ships that made Star Trek popular- the Enterprise. Fed ships are simply more fun to build and there is more reference widely available.
With the start of the ST: Invasion Mod, more alien ships will be seen (guaranteed).
I have built the Independence Day ships, and more recently, the Sona Battleship. The Scimitar is on my to-build list (and possibly the Valdores), and they are about ready to be built (maybe one will be available for Christmas). When I get my Akira done, I will attempt to start on one of these ships (now would be the best time than ever).
Summer has just started and I tend to release more mods during the summer.....
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Ah, well played, Jimmy, well played...
Also, another point, inspired by something Jimmy said:
All of us modders could easily go over to Excalibur and ask to help out, heck, DJ already did, and leave BC for good
Strictly not true... he did work for Excalibur for a wee bit, but is now he doesn't nor is any work included... DJ came back to bcc, why you ask....no time or Excal for or no glory there like he has here? :bow:
All of us modders could easily go over to Excalibur and ask to help out, heck, DJ already did, and leave BC for good. I don't, personally, because I know I or someone else will port my ships over anyways. Heck, if I had my way, I'd much rather have all you users of our ships grovelling at our feet saying thank you for sticking around when so many have moved on.
Well Farshot, the texture spec for Excal is a lot different from BC, so when it does come out, it might be best for you to learn, if you want your work looking the best as possible ;)
So until Excalibur is up and running I'm not planning on going anywhere. And hopefully I can continue there as well.
Haha that's what you think :P *Steals baz away forever :evil:*
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Stick those Mirandas on your list Wiley :hide :P
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hey, even I'M jumping a bit, thanks to helping Hobbs with his stuff. i even dug up my first kitbash, and hobbs had a little fun with it. i'm doing some tweaking to the model for a proper version using what Hobbs already did. heck, I'm even looking at knocking up one of my bridge designs!
I've always had plans for throwing in my REAL p-Star ships, if I can figure out how to actually model. i can also finish my P-Star pack I've even played with the card hybrid, i started a retex of the the Marauder, and I fixed several "broken" cardy mods, thanks to betaing starforce's last goodie pack.
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Strictly not true... he did work for Excalibur for a wee bit, but is now he doesn't nor is any work included... DJ came back to bcc, why you ask....no time or Excal for or no glory there like he has here? :bow:
I put the "DJ already did" before the "leave BC for good" because I knew he didn't leave permanently. I'd be an idiot to think that considering he just released three ships which I beta tested. I was referring to the fact that he did go over to Excalibur and help. The "DJ already did" was referring specifically to that fact.
Regardless, the fact is DJ did put time into modding something other than BC, and my original point remains valid - we who are left are the only ones keeping the modding scene alive for BC. There are no other forums, no other modders besides who you see here.
Also, Bones mentioned making requests. It's pretty much taboo around here to request someone make a certain ship. The complaint that we modders should quit wasting time on Fed ships and do others is like making a request for tons of ships, just as long as they aren't Fed. Then when we're downvoted for doing what we want instead of what "they", whoever "they" is, want, it's easy to see why we get tired of it.
And Sov, I'm not talking about you. All you all can go to the comments section of the Exeter class FSB Shipyards released at BCF and see that.
That being said, I'm working on Invasion too, so there's some more alien ships coming, like Wiley said.
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I'll state my opinion on the matter:
As a long-time "lurker" of Bridge Commander forums over the years, I've mostly been the grateful recipient of all the hard work that has been made over the years, to keep this game alive. Not many games these days, enjoy a lifetime of 10 years+. And with games going in the direction of "Online only" and "not moddable", it's rare to see newer games support a healthy modding community. I know i've had a fair number of disagreements with members of the community, but i've also tried to support the modders whenever possible. I've even actively defended modders who were subjected to "mod thefts", which often resulted in catching some flak of my own.
The modders of BC (what few there are left), does alot of work on their free time, and at no pay. The least anyone can ask, is that we as recipients, be greatful for the mods we get (no matter if it's 10 different Sovereign Classes, or a mixture of Feds, Klingons and Rommies). I understand Sov's argument, that there is a certain disproportional lean towards Federation ships, and less focus on "alien ships", but that I chalk upto primarily being due to the Feds having been seen the most, and having the most references available. As stated above, a new modder will likely attempt modelling one of the most famous of ships, that which is the "Enterprise" (any letter assigned).
It is our job as community members, to encourage modders to continue their hard work, and submit constructive criticism on how to potentially improve a given design (canon or otherwise). Most modders have their own unique "vision" of what they want to achieve with their models/textures, and ultimately it is their decision in the end, on what the end result may be.
I'm hoping the BC community will continue to live on past the release of ST: Excalibur, but I also understand why many (including myself), may flock towards playing and modding Excalibur instead. BC is after all, 10 years old, and running on outdated system specs/capabilities. Excalibur will be alot more up-to-date, and due to it being developed BY modders, and FOR modders, will likely support expansions for new features in the future.
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Darkthunder you have summed it up so well sir. Exactly my feelings and thoughts on the matter. Couldn't have put it better
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Holy smokes! Talk about a "heated discussion".
My post here was going to be long, but pretty much everything has been said that I wanted to (or would have) said so I'll make it as short as I can.
I have been a member of this community(BCU & BCC) since early 2005 and have thanked all the modders and my lucky stars that we have been gifted, that's right, gifted, all the incredible mods that we have for this great game. Imagine what we started with in the original... compared to what we have now. I don't care if we have 20+ of each fed ship or whatever ship... I'm eternally grateful!
However, I also see and agree with a lot of what Sov was pointing out. And I'd like to stress his point that he was not bashing at all - he just wants some more variety. I think what got people riled up was perhaps his approach. It admittedly came across a bit "frank" for lack of a better word. But, I know he meant well.
I can't wait for Excalibur, but I'm sure glad we still have (and will always have) BC. The improvements to this game through the years have been extraordinary. I believe this fact alone is what inspires the creators of Excalibur to make it as damn good as they can. Because for all intents and purposes, BC has been lookin' pretty good as of late.
Finally, I totally agree with Farshot's opinion also, and Jimmy's and many others. The utmost respect should be given to our modding brothers (and sometimes sisters) and we should try to be cool and kind... period. I don't know about the rest of you but the other thing that's kept BC so fresh for me after all these years is this community itself. I love all of you out there... Trekkers all!! And, in a strange sort of "modern technology" sort of way, it has made us all friends.
And that's a good thing.
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Oh. My. God.
I realize a lot of this has been said, but I really want to state my opinion on this thread because in the 9 years that I have been lurking and posting in this community, I have never seen anything so blatantly disrespectful to modders.
I'm truly shocked and appalled that a thread like this was started; and with all due respect to Jimmy and the rest of the staff here, allowed to continue. While I agree it would be nice to see some more alien ships in the works, the truth is that if modders prefer to work on Federation ships, that is their right to do so. They have no obligation to acquiesce to the desires of the community. We are not writing them a paycheck for their work. Hell, there is a good chunk of people who can't even be bothered to say "thank you" for all the work people like DJ, JB, Lurok, Farshot, Baz, Wiley, and so many others do for this community; and even worse, there are those that find unjustified reasons to bitch and moan about said work. Despite those things, our modders continue to produce quality work for a game in its final days.
Sovereign001, go take a look at the work produced in games such as Armada, SFC, Elite Force, and Legacy, and then compare them to the work produced by THIS community. I'm not saying that the work made in those games I listed is sub-par; quite the contrary, there are in-fact some great works there (especially in A2 with Fleet Ops). But it's Bridge Commander that hosts some of the best talent of any game modding scene. So many works by the people here have been ported to other games because the people modding for this community produce QUALITY work. For you to bitch and moan because you're pissy about not being satisfied with the screenshots you're taking is just ludicrous, not to mention ungrateful. Dude, you need to grow up. BC is hitting the end of it's life, so enjoy what is left and don't be so harsh towards the talent here.
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You know, it's weird. I've visited BCC (and formerly BCU) almost every day for the last ten years of my life. When I started I was barely out of high school. Now I'm 30 years old, married with two kids. I have a house, a career and university degree. I've worked as a speaker, a teacher, a musician, an actor, a forklift driver, a salesman, and an oilfield grunt... All since this community established itself. For some reason I've spent a decade of my life connected to this place, and while a lot has changed in my life, the BC community has been a relatively stable part of it. I actually miss this "place" when I'm away from it too long. I've actually thought about the fact that I will be sad when it finally slows and comes to a halt.
I can't speak for any one else. I can only say that I mod because I like to build ships. As a boy, I built dozens of star trek models, I still do, rarely. I really enjoy 3d modeling, I actually teach it as an option to my middle school students. Modding for BC has been a thrill. I always used to release my new ships on Sundays because that was the day the "top 25" downloads of the week list reset on BCFiles. I loved watching my work make its way to the top; what a great feeling. Makes you feel really appreciated. It's nice to know that people like the work you do. I should have done some non-fed ships. I always played safe and stayed in my comfort zone. Sovereign001 is absolutely right with his criticism. But, modders have to mod because they enjoy what they are doing. That has to be recognized and respected.
Has it been about "glory", as you say, JB06? Maybe in a strange way, yes. It's fun to be popular. There's been a culture built up in this community that glorifies a few, and for good reason, they do good work, even if the praise is frequently exclamatory. I KNOW I've done some good work. I also know that for a while I was probably the best around, but I'm not anymore, and believe it or not, I actually had to come to terms with that. It's lame I know, but I do have a connection to this community. Playing second fiddle to Wiley was uncomfortable at first, but now I'm just glad he's doing what he does. Do I compete with him or Baz? Not openly... But do I sort of miss the days when my work was at the top of the list? Sure. Do I want to be better? I do. I respect them both, and others who many of you guys underrate.
I've felt this community slowing down for the last few years, and I still think its pretty vibrant, all things considered, but Jimmy is right. There's not too many people still modding this game, and we haven't, as a community, been all that welcome to outsiders all the time. I don't agree with the idea that requests should be outlawed, and I don't agree with the default response of, "Use the search function," when a new member has a question. We have not always been the easiest bunch of people to break into.
I also feel I want to address the point about my involvement in Excalibur and why I stayed modding for BC. It's two fold, and I don't think some of you are going to like what i have to say. First, I started working on Excalibur because LC asked me to. He was my friend and I wanted to help. I stopped working on Excalibur because it wasn't fun. It's that simple. But to me, BC was, and is, more valuable than Excalibur. You know what they say about a bird in the hand being worth two in the bush, right? BC is something we actually have. We can center our community on it. Excalibur is a promise. It's intangible, and I don't think it will ever find its way to completion. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't question the talent of the people working on it, I know them. I know they know what they're doing. I also don't question Mark and LJ's determination. But I also know a thing or two about what drives the project and mods in general. It's the drive to achieve perfection, so the development will never stop, because without a huge team, it will fall behind. I also know that organizing modders is like herding cats, damn near impossible. The term "mod team" has more often than not meant "unfulfilled expectations". It's never a problem with the people, it's a problem with the system. Sometimes it works, and when it does, the results can be spectacular, but usually it falls victim to the reality that modding successfully often requires a singular focus and drive. In my career, I'm a team player, because it's about people. In my modding, I always work alone. I hope I'm wrong about Excalibur, but I don't think I am. This community is a bird in the hand.
10 years is a long time for people. I think about time a lot. Our lives are pretty short when you really think about, and I've spent a lot of time here. I don't regret it. It's been fun. But maybe it's time to move on, I mean for all of us. Maybe grasping at the last few threads is not the best. Maybe it's best to remember something that was good when it went away, instead of something that had become hollowed out and threadbare. There is something to be said for a graceful exit. I might be wrong.
Jimmy, you've done a great job man. You are one cool motherfucker.
Wiley, you're a kick ass modder, the best. But clean those meshes up a little, eh. I do look at them you know.
Baz, you're like the energizer bunny. It's great.
Farshot, you're the next big thing. If anyone is still around in a year, you're going to be the main man.
Darkthunder. Max 3.1. You made it happen all those years ago. Thanks bro.
Moed, comments are the lifeblood of the modding forum, and you're the best.
Mark, Viper, I wish you guys still hung around here more.
LC, you were my mentor. Sorry I bailed on you. I should have been straight about it. I avoided you.
Adonis, you are the only know it all I know that actually knows it all. Thanks for all the help over the years.
Nebula, you wore out my keyboard nitpicking my Galaxy over MSN. I am grateful for that and everything else.
RCGothic, I don't know if you ever check in, but I'm sorry I called you a pompous dick like six or seven years ago. You gave me a warning, remember? Something about Oxford as I recall.
Mleo, I can't believe how many questions you've answered over the years. You've been a backbone of this community.
Shadownight, Aces_High, Captain obvious, thanks for all the feedback over the years. You helped me be better.
MarkyD, I am jealous of your abs.
JB06, sorry. I was too possessive back then. Too controlling. My pride was hurt because I couldn't do what you were doing. If ever you still want to release it, go ahead, but I understand if you don't. Make sure the DQP gets released.
Killallewoks, Tally, et al, thanks for all the wicked screenies, especially lately. You guys rock.
Gmunoz, you deserve a medal for your TOS work.
Rifleman, thanks for using so many of my ships in your great videos.
Cordanilus, you are the most innovative modder I ever knew.
And my Buddhist buddy from Texas. You never visit any more. I hope things are going better. Still miss you, bro.
I missed lots of people. It's been a long time.
All good things, right fellas?
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Wow DJ. Glad to see my name recognized. I've enjoyed every ship you've put out, as well as the ones that you were working on that for one reason or another got pushed to the backburner. I never questioned that because I fully realize that you have life commitments outside of this community and those must take priority. I always look forward to clicking on a WIP thread of your's when it pops to the top of the BC Modding section because I know what I'll see is awesome. :salute3:
Here's my two bits. DJ, Jimmy, Neb, they can back me up on this. I've been around these people for quite a long time, way back in BCU. I've seen the highs and lows of BC modding. And I was quite sad when several people vanished with projects unfinished, ie. Queball had a really nice ship in the works that never saw the light of day, and when modders started abandoning BC to work on Excalibur. I'll be honest. I appreciate that some of you think Excalibur is going to be the shit. I hope you're right, that DJ is wrong that it'll eventually collapse. But for now, I have BC. And I am really grateful to DJ, Wiley, Baz, Bones, Farshot, etc. etc. for keeping the old boat flying. I used to also be a part of a modding scene for Jedi Academy, mostly through the Filefront forums. Heck, I even released a retexture for a character! I go to the Filefront site for that game, and I rarely see anything other than crappy clan maps. Jedi Academy, a game with a decent engine that is relatively easy to mod and is one year younger than BC, has no modding scene anymore. Over here, at BCC, we have tons of ships, bridges, and thanks to Moed and Killallewoks, awesome backgrounds just being churned out. Often. I'm grateful for that. Any time I boot up BC, I have something very pretty to look at and blow up, if the mood strikes. Bridge Commander has been around for 10 years. The modding community has seen the highs and lows of the franchise in many ways, including gaming. And because of your dedication, Bridge Commander continues to stand above all other Trek games. Thanks to people like you DJ, Wiley, Baz, and more. You know what I say? Keep her flyin', and I'll keep downloading, be they Feddies, Rommies, Klings, or Spoonheads.
Wow...didn't mean to make a Malcolm Reynolds speech here.
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I don't know really what to say, generally i'm a man of few words straight to the point. Moed can agree with me on this one , he would write a fairly hefty e-mail and then I would reply with three or four sentences tops. When I first joined BCC a couple of years ago it was pretty quiet, not much was happening but after a few months things seemed to picked up. Baz and Wiley were doing thier thing, DJ wasis pumping some great orginal ships, Phoeinex was and still is getting that origins pack right and looking good I may say. JB and Co for FOUR years have worked on possibly BC's last large Huurah in terms of BC modding and scale. Farshot and Bones make a great team and I look foreward to more of thier work. Lurock makes awesome bridges, and has built upon 3rd era's success and created the best bridge innovations BC has ever seen. Yes thiers more more and I can see this going for a bit longer , I don't like to say how long but come on now everyone this is one the most friendly communites out on the internet, all ways willing to help though search for it is a bit blunt a link all ways helps. A shout out to Saquist and Tally too, without them I would not be the screenshot guy I am now.
I just make screenshots, BC was a big part for me in getting a new computer. I will continue to make screenshots, you are all good people and I'd like to some of you guys one day. Maybe in London I might and well that would be the iceing on the cake. Now modders, keep on doing what you want or what you don't want to do for that matter. We shouldn't judge what work they do just on the quality , some friendly competition is all ways going to happen and may it continue. As it is a driving force behind some people and encourages some great work.
Crap, i've gone soft. Anyone know how to do Drill?
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Nero summed it up really well, besides there are more non-fed mods in production, my/Killallewoks Mass Effect pack, Loonatics ST Invasion pack, DQP, many many more ships non-fed / non-ST mods are WIP so I don't really understand why so much moaning... no hatered here Sov, didn't want to hurt ya feelings mate but this thread shouldn't have been sarted at all ... it's all for free, no price charged, it's all being done for fun only so (not speaking to you Sov directly - it is a broad message to general public) show some appreciation, you don't have to like every single mod, you don't even have to kiss our bottoms.
Let's be friendly ppl
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While we're all getting soft, Mr. Ewoks, I feel I need to step off the soapbox and speak from the recliner for a bit.
When I went to the screenshot thread a bit back, the first thing I saw was someone saying something like "I want to see more alien ships too". At the time, I had no idea who precipitated this discussion, but I was already getting on the defensive. Jimmy's original post also fueled that. Hope he doesn't kill me for this, but when Jimmy wants to bitch, he bitches, and I agreed with him. :P
Some may say I don't have much reason to be defensive, considering I've only released three ships, two of them with Bones' help. Granted that, there's also a side of me that shows up only occasionally here. I probably have hundreds of Federation ships of all eras and styles around my house. I can't really think of any alien designs I've sketched. If I had the time, which I don't, to model all of those sketches, I would. Then there would really be too many Federation ships. (haha) It's not that I don't like non-Fed ships - the B'rel is easily in my top five favorite ship designs - but that I like Federation ships too damn much. Maybe I just want to be a Starfleet captain so bad, all I can think of is how my ship would look.
I'm fairly new to the BC scene, having been around only in the past few years, but I've learned a lot about the giants of BC and how most of them have faded away over time. DJ is arguably the last around. When we have so little of the community left, I hate to see threads like this. I am sorry for my part in being somewhat hostile, but I still agree with everything I said.
With my previous comment about the B'rel, I feel somewhat ashamed. I did have that Proto-D'deridex sketch, and I do want to model it. Klingon ships shouldn't be much of a problem for me either. The Vendetta was partly inspired by Klingon design. I'll try to do my part to put more adversarial vessels out. No promises, but I'll try.
To DJ: My respect for you has quintupled, man. Usually we community members don't talk enough around here. Lately to me you've seemed distant. We only get updates from you every few months before you vanish away again. It's actually worried me because you and Wiley are my greatest inspirations. Thanks for the shout-out as well - I sincerely hope to live up to expectations. I can't tell you how exciting it feels to have my work positively critiqued by you two, especially since Wiley invited me onto the Invasions mod.
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Darkthunder. Max 3.1. You made it happen all those years ago. Thanks bro.
Whoa. You can't imagine how much it means to me, to see my name listed above among some of the "truly greats" that BC has had over the years. I may have been primarily a lurker, but I enjoy helping out whenever/wherever possible, and i'm not afraid to state my opinions or suggestions for improvements (as i'm sure many are aware). I'm happy that my assistance "many years ago", helped you out in any way. I think I can safely say, "I'm not worthy" to be on your list of "respected community members", but it's fun to be recognized. Cheers, mate :)
I don't think there is much to add to the topic, than has already been said. I don't think Sovereign001 meant his post as being "offensive" or "disrespectful". I understand his position, and to a certain degree, even agree with it. I do not agree with Nero in stating "I have never seen anything so blatantly disrespectful to modders.". I don't know man, but after 10 years of being a part of the BC community, i've seen ALOT of "blatantly disrespectful" stuff happen towards modders, and this thread is insignificant by comparison.
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I can see sov's point, but it is what it is.
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i believe we need more non-trek ships. B5, BSG, Aliens, Homeworld, we need more!
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then learn how to make them and step up ;) :P
everybody "wants" but nobody "wants to learn how to do it"...
besides, the BSG ship pack has already been done a long time ago and if i recall correctly includes every ship in the fleet as well as every cylon ship thats been shown...
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Apart from the Rising Star :funny
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ok just a few replies id like to make from previous posts... this is gonna be a long one lol
i find it very sad almost pathetic, that a message placed by the messenger(someone that has the balls to stand up and post a well-shared opinion) gets soo much hatred. I'm not attacking any modders, i even thanked them for the beautiful ships, hence the screenshots.
what is sad and pathetic is the sentiment that whiney people have when they complain they dont have what they want and the utter disrespect shown to modders who give them so much more than they have... it is such like a spoiled brat way of being... it is so ungrateful...
this isnt a personal direct statement to you or anyone specifically, just to the sentiment itself...
and yeah, the messenger gets shot, even though that shouldnt be the case i know... hence "dont shoot the messenger"
and there is no hatred to you or anyone... just the sentiment that is being described by people like you and your friends...
and im sorry, but your opinion is not "well-shared", as this thread has shown... you and your friends that talk about this off the forums are only a very small minority... just how long have you and your friends been on this scene anyway? because this all sounds like such noob shit or the shit that kids spout off in BCFiles comments sections... (sometimes i am so glad im not onstaff there anymore lol)
no offense, or anything...
The message only asked that there could be in the future, perhaps more variety in the ships. Different races. I don't even think that this is wrong?
the delivery of your "message" was in fact very wrong and the way you went about it was as well...
see how respectful you sound now? not the case at all in your original delivery of the "message"...
PS: the raise in my cookie bar since these posts, says enough.
yeah and the raise in everyone else's cookie level (which i can monitor and all have exceeded yours) in this thread says enough as well... get off your high horse already, it is trite... besides, cookies dont mean shit so really that says nothing to your point...
I realize a lot of this has been said, but I really want to state my opinion on this thread because in the 9 years that I have been lurking and posting in this community, I have never seen anything so blatantly disrespectful to modders.
i have... many times... and each time is insulting and offensive to modders and strikes a nerve within me personally...
I'm truly shocked and appalled that a thread like this was started; and with all due respect to Jimmy and the rest of the staff here, allowed to continue.
frankly, i felt the conversation needed to be had... a small group of people were acting on such a high horse, i felt it would be unfair if they get to speak their thoughts and frustration and the modders and the rest of the community couldnt also share their thoughts...
Hell, there is a good chunk of people who can't even be bothered to say "thank you" for all the work people like DJ, JB, Lurok, Farshot, Baz, Wiley, and so many others do for this community; and even worse, there are those that find unjustified reasons to bitch and moan about said work. Despite those things, our modders continue to produce quality work for a game in its final days.
modders get stones thrown at them, they always have... and yet they continue on...
whats the best way to kill a scene and a community? treat the modders in a shitty disrespectful way to where they decide "fuck them!" and stop modding, or where modders would only share their works with their friends and not want to share their work with the general public... in fact, i have some mods and scripts that wont be found anywhere else, from this exact occurrence by modders who have quit from some people's shitty attitudes... this community came very close a couple of times to where it almost completely died completely as a result of shitty ungrateful attitudes... i can remember a specific instance years ago when at least a dozen or so of very strong modders all at once almost quit because of such a thing... fortunately they decided to keep going anyway - and thank god for that!
Sovereign001, go take a look at the work produced in games such as Armada, SFC, Elite Force, and Legacy, and then compare them to the work produced by THIS community. I'm not saying that the work made in those games I listed is sub-par; quite the contrary, there are in-fact some great works there (especially in A2 with Fleet Ops). But it's Bridge Commander that hosts some of the best talent of any game modding scene. So many works by the people here have been ported to other games because the people modding for this community produce QUALITY work
i couldnt have said that better myself...
BC has always been the strongest and most popular community of any trek gaming community, and all of them have died out long ago yet we're still here kicking ass even if to a lesser degree than before...
For some reason I've spent a decade of my life connected to this place, and while a lot has changed in my life, the BC community has been a relatively stable part of it. I actually miss this "place" when I'm away from it too long. I've actually thought about the fact that I will be sad when it finally slows and comes to a halt.
i fully share your sentiment here... ive been on the forums every single day for the last 10 years, this community has a personal deep meaning for me and i have made countless awesome friendships from it... and it has never ceased to amaze me... i am very passionate about it and have been since i jumped in... i have the utmost respect for modders (i wish everyone did but clearly there are some throughout the past and recent who dont seem to) and i have seen them all and been part of all it... and when they get disrespected it really pisses me off because they dont deserve that!
we haven't, as a community, been all that welcome to outsiders all the time. I don't agree with the idea that requests should be outlawed, and I don't agree with the default response of, "Use the search function," when a new member has a question. We have not always been the easiest bunch of people to break into.
i dont know so much about that... i suppose after a decade of the same kinds of thing coming up and the same kind of response being said, after a while it does get annoying... this holds true anywhere in life... sure, sometimes new people get barked at because they dont know any better but so did all of us when we didnt know any better when we were new (myself included)... thats just the nature of things...
Excalibur is a promise. It's intangible, and I don't think it will ever find its way to completion. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't question the talent of the people working on it, I know them. I know they know what they're doing. I also don't question Mark and LJ's determination. But I also know a thing or two about what drives the project and mods in general. It's the drive to achieve perfection, so the development will never stop, because without a huge team, it will fall behind. I also know that organizing modders is like herding cats, damn near impossible. The term "mod team" has more often than not meant "unfulfilled expectations". It's never a problem with the people, it's a problem with the system. Sometimes it works, and when it does, the results can be spectacular, but usually it falls victim to the reality that modding successfully often requires a singular focus and drive. In my career, I'm a team player, because it's about people. In my modding, I always work alone. I hope I'm wrong about Excalibur, but I don't think I am.
im sorry to disagree with ya, mon ami - but you are definitely wrong about this... it will happen, there is no question... and the modding team has grown quite a bit and sooo many people are doing sooo many things and it is all coming together faster and moreso than ever before; everything is falling together nicely... i dont know if you still have access to the hidden dev forums but so very much has been done and it is so close to being completed... thats all ill say about that tho...
Jimmy, you've done a great job man. You are one cool motherfucker.
thank you for saying, it means alot to me :)
i try to be down to earth and cool, im sure most of you that have been around for years remember how much of a bitch i used to be, id like to think ive toned down a bit in my old age lol
MarkyD, I am jealous of your abs.
he is such a hottie... *drools*
lol :P
And my Buddhist buddy from Texas. You never visit any more. I hope things are going better. Still miss you, bro.
i miss weasel... i wish he were still around also... ther eare so many people i miss and wish were still around... as well some that i am glad are gone lol
I've seen the highs and lows of BC modding. And I was quite sad when several people vanished with projects unfinished, ie. Queball had a really nice ship in the works that never saw the light of day
i've been there every step of the way as well and there are indeed sooooo many awesome would-have-been projects that never finished... goodness, there are like several dozen at the very least! including Queball's ship that i was so eager to have! but thats life, and happens in every modding scene... it is pointless for anyone to complain about it or act with disrespect about it, or huff and whine about it as some people have so many times in the past already... i honestly thought we were over those days in this community...
and when modders started abandoning BC to work on Excalibur. I'll be honest. I appreciate that some of you think Excalibur is going to be the shit. I hope you're right, that DJ is wrong that it'll eventually collapse.
frankly i am glad they did... originally this was supposed to be a major overhaul of BC but the limited engine prevented so many possibilities of what they wanted to do that it became too frustrating understandably... building a whole new engine opened the door to things that could have never been possible to do in BC (without hacking the source code which is illegal) and the end result would be so much better than ever could be on this old limited engine, so i am glad they chose to leave BC to build something completely new :)
the Excal team has so many oldschool BC modders working on that project, BC's elite-most modders - names from back to BCU's early days, people that transformed BC to what it is now... and alot of majorly talented people from elsewhere that never was a part of BC or the community, and that is exciting! had it all been done on BC's engine, more than half that team wouldnt exist...
i understand why people may be dubious about Excalibur being finished, but mark my words - it will be... i know it will be... it is only a matter of time now...
I don't really understand why so much moaning... no hatered here Sov, didn't want to hurt ya feelings mate but this thread shouldn't have been sarted at all ... it's all for free, no price charged, it's all being done for fun only so (not speaking to you Sov directly - it is a broad message to general public) show some appreciation, you don't have to like every single mod, you don't even have to kiss our bottoms.
Let's be friendly ppl
couldnt agree more...
At the time, I had no idea who precipitated this discussion, but I was already getting on the defensive. Jimmy's original post also fueled that. Hope he doesn't kill me for this, but when Jimmy wants to bitch, he bitches, and I agreed with him.
i didnt know it would lead into this discussion either, but i felt it needed to... people had their say and i felt the modders and the community should have theirs... i was nervous that it would turn into an ugly thread where people would be attacking each other deeply and personally (years ago it most surely would have) but i felt it should play ot until it couldnt and i gotta say so far everyone has been polite and respectful...
and it will remain like that... no matter my opinions, sentiments, and stance on this issue - i wont tolerate anyone being disrespected on a personal level even if i am 100% in disagreement with them...
but that has happened and i am really happy about that...
When we have so little of the community left, I hate to see threads like this.
i do as well... i wish there would be no one who would demonstrate such disappointment to modders with whatever lack of ships being made... but thats just not reality, apparently and unfortunately...
I don't think Sovereign001 meant his post as being "offensive" or "disrespectful". I understand his position, and to a certain degree, even agree with it.
i agree that Sov001 wasnt meaning to be offensive and disrespectful personally... the sentiment that he and his friends have, however, is... that may be only my opinion...
I do not agree with Nero in stating "I have never seen anything so blatantly disrespectful to modders.". I don't know man, but after 10 years of being a part of the BC community, i've seen ALOT of "blatantly disrespectful" stuff happen towards modders, and this thread is insignificant by comparison.
really, tho, it is all the same... and i have no tolerance or patience for any of it...
there are ways to bring a point across, or even better - people should keep the negative and ungrateful bullshit to themselves, be glad with what they have... and if thats not enough then they can throw a temper tantrum in their own house, keep the shitty attitude to themselves and dont bother coming back to the forums if things arent good enough for them, thats perfectly fine...
thats how ive always felt anyway...
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Apart from the Rising Star :funny
really?? i thought that was in there... ah well lol
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While I agree there could be more alien ship variety, I still appreciate the hard work and dedication that all modders put into their work. It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort to do something like modding. I myself hope I can start picking up a few modeling/texturing/scripting tips while the Star Trek Invasion pack is being worked on so I can learn to start modding too.
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I'd also like to send a shout out to another modder who I think hasn't gotten enough recognition. While Bridge Commander is first and foremost a Star Trek game, there have been a few that have brought other Sci-Fi ships into the fold. Bones is one of them with the Mass Effect ships, as well as whoever did the Battlestar Galactica stuff. But the one that really made me happy was CyAn1d3's FF8 Ragnarok. The Ragnarok is a very quirky ship in many ways, not to mention a small craft, and most modders have shied away from ships from outside Sci-Fi TV/movies. CyAn1d3 brought to BC one of the many ships outside of Trek that I've been hoping for, and he did a darn good job of it, and I feel that he didn't get very much recognition for working on such a difficult model.
Plus, he had the sense of humor to put Lone Starr's Eagle 5 in BC, so he's a good chap in my book. :thumbsup:
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oh CRAP! i forgot to GET the ragnarok! *facepalming final fantasy freak* :facepalm: :facepalm:
ah yes, I vetted eagle five :P
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Has it been about "glory", as you say, JB06? Maybe in a strange way, yes. It's fun to be popular. There's been a culture built up in this community that glorifies a few, and for good reason, they do good work, even if the praise is frequently exclamatory. I KNOW I've done some good work. I also know that for a while I was probably the best around, but I'm not anymore, and believe it or not, I actually had to come to terms with that. It's lame I know, but I do have a connection to this community. Playing second fiddle to Wiley was uncomfortable at first, but now I'm just glad he's doing what he does. Do I compete with him or Baz? Not openly... But do I sort of miss the days when my work was at the top of the list? Sure. Do I want to be better? I do. I respect them both, and others who many of you guys underrate.
If it is about glory mate, then you never reach your full potential. Glory doesn't mix with innovation unfortunately :P
I also feel I want to address the point about my involvement in Excalibur and why I stayed modding for BC. It's two fold, and I don't think some of you are going to like what i have to say. First, I started working on Excalibur because LC asked me to. He was my friend and I wanted to help. I stopped working on Excalibur because it wasn't fun. It's that simple. But to me, BC was, and is, more valuable than Excalibur. You know what they say about a bird in the hand being worth two in the bush, right? BC is something we actually have. We can center our community on it. Excalibur is a promise. It's intangible, and I don't think it will ever find its way to completion. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't question the talent of the people working on it, I know them. I know they know what they're doing. I also don't question Mark and LJ's determination.
This just shows how long ago you where around the Excal dev board. Jimmy is correct, we 've done a lot since you've been around the loop :D
Adonis, you are the only know it all I know that actually knows it all. Thanks for all the help over the years.
Thanks :) It's all about glory vs. innovation. I'm constantly trying out new stuff, every build is an experiment of it's own, and that will never change. I'm the sneaky bastard of a modeler, and there's a good reason for it :D And I'm still around you know :P
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@ DJ - Dude, I'm humbled by your including me in that esteemed list. Thank you for it. Coming from you, it means a lot. But I must say, I feel I don't hold a candle to most of the names on that list... but again, thanks truly :) BTW, Wiley is awesome, but you're just as good - different - like all of us are - but just as good. And Baz, Farshot, and quite a few others through the years, well, they too majorly kick ass.
Anyhow, if I may say, enough already everyone. As I mentioned in my last post in this thread, many of us are still here and many new ones are here now. We're not going anywhere - and at the end of the day, we all love this too much so, everyone smile a little :thumbsup:
Excalibur will be finished, and it will be great... but guess what, BC is great too, OK. And in my book, it will stay great.
I too have grown in many ways since I first started checking out this community 8+ years ago and in all that time, I've considered all of us friends, regardless of any attitudes or personality conflicts or whatever.
Honestly, not to sound overly dramatic or anything, BC has changed a part of my life. And it has been a good part of my life.
And I'm glad it happened.
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I feel only one thing reading this thread.
I feel cheated.
I only found this community two years ago :P
DJ, that was lucidly worded and you are the king.
You all deserve :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: (and an extra :kiss: for Jimmy)
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frankly, i felt the conversation needed to be had... a small group of people were acting on such a high horse, i felt it would be unfair if they get to speak their thoughts and frustration and the modders and the rest of the community couldnt also share their thoughts...
I can see your point there. I guess I was more surprised than anything; most threads like this get shut down relatively quickly and its OP warned. In hindsight though I can agree this was a conversation that needed to be had and on some level I'm glad that it did.
I hope my remark didn't come off as disrespectful. You and the staff here have done a fine job leading this community and have always been respectful and fair in my experience. Like I said, I was just reacting to the surprise at seeing a thread like this going on to the extent that it was...
i can remember a specific instance years ago when at least a dozen or so of very strong modders all at once almost quit because of such a thing
That was 3rd Era if I recall correctly wasn't it? Or one of the bridge teams that preceded it? I've lurked off and on since '03 so it's a long time between this and R/L for memories to get lost sadly...
I do not agree with Nero in stating "I have never seen anything so blatantly disrespectful to modders.". I don't know man, but after 10 years of being a part of the BC community, i've seen ALOT of "blatantly disrespectful" stuff happen towards modders, and this thread is insignificant by comparison.
Looking back on it you're right. Like I was telling Jimmy just above my reply to you, 9 years and the constant balance between R/L and here makes it easy to forget things. This is just the first one in a while that I've seen and felt the urge to chime in on.
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I personally believe that this game has plenty of variety, for a list of ships that has been amassing since this game's creation in 2002. I am very content with the amount of material that has been released, granted the list is very Federation oriented but that's because everyone loves the Federation.
I know that my contributions have only been a small drop in the ocean compared to some of the others, but I'm ok with that. I am still trying to work on a couple things here and there for BC, but my drive to continue to work on this game has severely diminished. Granted I've been mostly absent here lately, but that's because I feel that in my opinion that we are finally nearing the end of the road that is Star Trek Bridge Commander.
I am excited to hear and see that Excalibur is not dead, I am very eager to see what happens with it. But for a while now I have began to feel that there is nothing more that I can accomplish with this game. I haven't released any new artwork either lately because I honestly haven't felt like doing any lol
I have come to know and respect a great many of you, and I salute the ones that have stayed behind and done what they have done to keep this community alive, if it wasn't for you guys I don't know what would have happened. And I also want to thank every single one of you for doing what you do to because all of you are amazing, talented individuals, and there is not another place on earth that has as much loyalty and devotion to a game or franchise as this community does. And also thanks to everyone that has helped me along the way, I would not be where I am today without you.
I plan to continue working on the last two projects that I have been working on and off of since 2009, the Gemini, and the Invasion pack (which has merged into Wiley's project) and get those released. But after that I believe that I will bid farewell to Bridge Commander, perhaps I will move on to Excalibur whenever that is released, but by then I just might sit on the sidelines and enjoy what comes out for it.
But until that day comes, lets all do our damnedest to see that this game reaches it's highest potential because I am not giving up yet!
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Everything has been said, and to be honest, i agree with both sides, yes, there is much less focus on newer non Fed ships, and yes the modders, the Blood and organs of Bridge Commander's existence have the right to create what they want. I tried to start a project that would bring STO KDF ships into BC, and well, since i cant model (trust me, i tried in many games, and failed each time) it didnt go anywhere because there wasnt any free modeler, which is understandable, modding is in ones free time, sometimes there isnt anytime for a new project, but the need for Non-fed ships is still there, hence i still volunteer to hardpoint, or do scripting if someone ever does have the time for that. To all modders, i have been lurker for 3 years, and recently mustered the courage to join, and whatever the mods are, from ships Fed, and non fed, bridges to amazing game-changing mods like DS9FX, i have much admiration, and respect for all of you, i have been modding (scripting) games from the Total War series, to Sins of a Solar Empire, Arma 2 and Homeword 2, and with perhaps the exception of the Medieval 2 total war community at twcenter.net, i have never seen such spectacular array of dedicated, and extremely skilled modders, i am pretty sure this community will continue on. Thank you for everything.
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and now the point is moot. Hobbs said that sov001 has walked. I've gotten the impression he's what some gamers call a scrub, someone who wants everything balanced to their personal standards only.
but here's something to think about. each and every one of you who's put so much effort into keeping BC alive got tons of praise heaped on them because of one guy yarping.
all I know is I hope ONE day to have a SINGLE mod that people will like. I was hoping the Concours would be the one, but everybody wants something up to the ultra-high quality standards you guys set as Base quality :P I'm not up to that standard yet. if I ever make a mod that cracks 1000 downloads, I'll know I've arrived, but there's two many things on MY plate right now, real life included
keep going, guys. I'll assist where and when I can, but I'm not good enough for a spotlight.
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Hobbs said that sov001 has walked.
how immature... to people who huff and puff and leave because they dont like what people have to say to them, i say "well then buh-bye - dont let the door hit ya on the way out!"
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how immature... to people who huff and puff and leave because they dont like what people have to say to them, i say "well then buh-bye - dont let the door hit ya on the way out!"
the thing is, he's SAID. i dunno if the guy has officially walked or not.
this has happened a decade ago with another fandom I'm in, for a legitimate reason. one guy stole THOUSANDS of pieces of art and removed those person's copyrights, signatures, watermarks, EVERYTHING and substituted his own, then proceeded to sell CD copies under his own name. hundreds of artists, mostly of the professionaly trained variety, simply walked away and disappeared forever. this person is currenly sitting in Jail and a Psych ward, I believe.
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the thing is, he's SAID. i dunno if the guy has officially walked or not.
well, hopefully he wont quit on the forums because he is mad at what people had to say to him... to do so would be sooooo lame lol
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I never got the impression that any of us were ticked at him. He brought up a legitimate concern. It jut happens that BC has a small number of active modders, all of whom continue to improve with each and every release.
I just hope that DJ's big long message wasn't his big goodbye, that'd be sad. :(
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First, let me tell you a bit about myself.
A few of you know me from other forums by my same nick: Starship
I?m in 46 years old, married, and with two childrens (08 and 03 years old), as DJ.
Starships are my hobby since I was a kid. I have a HUGE (you have no idea...) amount of screencaps, renderings, meshes in high and low polly, drawings and sketches. I?m a scifi collector. From time to time I try to build my pwn meshes, mainlly in 3dsmax and sketchup. I know I?m not that good, and don?t know if I will be someday but... I keep trying to model my high polly starships. As a note, I made just one release: The high-polly USS Enterprise-B. :)
I joinned these forums cause the starships, as you already know. I never played BC, but I do have A LOT of the meshes that you all built along the years saved in my hds and dvds. I would like to see my own ships flying in BC battles, of course, but I don?t have time nor skills needed to make them compatible with the game.
Back on topic:
DJ made a great post. Mature, perfect. Talking about the named modders, I believe that DJ is right. :)
It?s just me, or you all think that DJ?s post is a goodbye? Good lucky DJ, whatever you go. You inspired me a lot along theses years, and I?ll just say thanks! :bow:
Discussions are needed when growing and the ideas are changing, but can?t lead to the break point. Whatever the modders are offering, they are doing this cause they like to see their ships alive. Talking about the lack of variety, I believe a way to increase it is offering ideas, sketches, drawings.... The modders aren?t obligated to take them, but can get inspiration and, maybe, if the time permits, turn a few of them in new mods. Why not to start a thread where you all can post? I know that some peoples can?t model, but sometimes can drawn very good. It isn?t a "make it modders" thread, it will be just an inspirational thread. ;) You all need to keep this feeling alive. :)
Along the years, I took part of several well known communities (now dead): Taldren, Wolfpack, 3D-Gladiators, Scifi-art, M-cgi... Talking about my experience there, I saw that ne day, the point of rupture is achieved between the members. Some ones left us and took new flyes, sometimes solitaire, and never come back. Sometimes, they started new communities (Scifi-meshes, Foundation3d, BCU...). Other ones prefered to stay, and have the mission to keep the old community alive.
Go ahead, and good luck! ;)
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Inspiration isn't a problem. I have tons of creativity just waiting to be slapped on paper.
Time is. If we had the time to make every single thing we all have planned, then maybe we'd get to the ships that the community has more of a need for.
The art forum has always had people making sketches of their own ships, and that's worked perfectly fine. I picked up Flarespire's Inferno from there, not really because he asked so intently for someone to make it, which is pretty much a request, but because I felt it was a design that I might have sketched myself.
I've actually taken several requests for STO ships and put them on the to-do list on the FSB Shipyards thread. If I had the time, I'd make every single STO ship, but I have to prioritize. I can't speak for Wiley, but I do believe he has a to-do list just as long.
It's a sad reality that we can't do everything that the community wants us to, but it's true. There's only around a dozen active ones, and we have our own stuff we want to take care of first.
I'd say we just keep to the status quo. We make what we want as we always have, without community input unless it's personal, and the community can take it or leave it.
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indeed ive had a personal request of a ship i would love to have in my install, and ive made slight mention of it here and there, but i know how backlogged modders are so i am content with the fact it may never happen...
and thats ok with me... some things in life you just have to accept and live with... to complain about it really is just kinda childish really...
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What is it out of curiosity?
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indeed ive had a personal request of a ship i would love to have in my install, and ive made slight mention of it here and there, but i know how backlogged modders are so i am content with the fact it may never happen...
and thats ok with me... some things in life you just have to accept and live with... to complain about it really is just kinda childish really...
Is that the New Orleans by any chance? ;)
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You and the New Orleans! Which I have just added to my pic list.
I understand completely what Jimmy is saying. I too made a request of one of the modding gods on the site. Never felt so guilty and awful in doing so. I was totally prepared to be told to go away but I wasn't and he was lovely about it.
Again, like Jimmy, I may never see it come to fruition but that is part and parcel of the community and the lives we all lead which are far more important than a PC game
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What is it out of curiosity?
Is that the New Orleans by any chance? ;)
nah, it is a Dominion War/late DS9-era Nebula Class, which is composed completely and entirely of Galaxy Class parts... (gal saucer, gal stardrive, gal deflector, gal nacelles, etc)
it is different from the regular Nebula Class, i think the most notable difference is the gal stardrive...
it has been mentioned that CR did it already in his pack but it really isnt galaxy-class parts...
a new New Orleans would also be cool - especially if that one consisted entirely of Galaxy Class parts also (which wouldnt be canon, i know, but it would look cool anyway)...
but anyway, thats getting a little offtopic to this thread lol
the point is, if i could make these ships myself i would... but since i cant, i will be happy with what is available... it would be rude for me to be upset that no one has, even if i had requested it... thats the negative and very wrong attitude to have...
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Ah, I would maybe have tried it, but I think it would be more fitting for someone who had already made a Galaxy to do so.
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I totally agree with Jimmy. I also (like so many of us) have a ship that I would love to be made but the only way I ever requested it - and I did it only once and respectfully - I did through a PM. The modder whom I asked was very cool about it and he said that it was on his to-do list. So... if he never gets to it, no worries. But if he ever does, then that's fine too.
I'm just grateful for all we have been given... and all for free!!
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Inspiration isn't a problem. I have tons of creativity just waiting to be slapped on paper.
My fault. To write in a language that isn?t your native, can lead you to mistakes or don?t express very well. :)
I know you all have inspiration and creativity enough. :)
Time is. If we had the time to make every single thing we all have planned, then maybe we'd get to the ships that the community has more of a need for.
Time... Yes, I understand and totally agree with you. I have a HUGE backlog, full of conversions (maya, lwo, nif and others) to do, and a folder full of incomplete meshes from my own. Also, tons of sketches from my own and others. If I had the time, how many from those Atolm?s sketches I would like to flesh out... Yes, time is a problem. :)
The art forum has always had people making sketches of their own ships, and that's worked perfectly fine. I picked up Flarespire's Inferno from there, not really because he asked so intently for someone to make it, which is pretty much a request, but because I felt it was a design that I might have sketched myself.
That?s fine! So, forget my suggestion. :hithead:
... We make what we want as we always have, without community input unless it's personal, and the community can take it or leave it.
Ditto!
Keep doing the great work. :)
...some things in life you just have to accept and live with... to complain about it really is just kinda childish really...
Yes Jimmy, you?re right.
I experienced this a lot along the years...
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Wow, well I haven't posted on here for what? A couple of years I suspect.
To continue some of the 'kudos' posts, I would like to tip my hat to Laurelin, her hardpoints are what got me started on BC Modding these 9 years past! I would also like to say a huge thanks to ZambieZan, his HP's were always that little bit unexpected. :P
And to take some of the limelight from the Modellers and Texturers out there;
The coders, HPers, tweakers, you know who you are, who made all the fancy features work. Hats off to you guys.
To address Sov001's post, I didn't think you guys should shoot the messenger as the message isn't invalid.
The BC community is fading, as DJ said 'All good things...'.
BC has been lucky to have a large number of modders who started on Fed ships and (in some cases) moved on to alien races.
Some of these modders have left or moved on to other things, some have stayed.
As there are now only a few guys still producing ships, it is much more apperant that Fed ships have been the mainstay of BC, modellers are more familiar with them.
So while Sov001's point is valid, I see it as an inevitable result of the twilight modding community BC now has.
So long, and thanks for all the fish... :)
....but, times move on, new technologies and techniques are developed. New ideas and concepts can be realised.
Yes, I work on Excalibur, I'm really excited about it and belive the strong leadership, talent and mutual goal to produce something that gamers and modders have been lacking for many years, will see it to completion.
The drive and talent of the team is something I've not seen since the early days of BC modding.
Aurora....
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Excalibur just got called "vaporware" on the facebook image page. people still don't believe you guys will pull it off at all.
Vince Kostelnik nice graphics...too bad this game is still vaporware...if they could do something with it it would be a very strong competitor with STO.
I think you'll pull it off, but it'll be too high end for someone without a gaming rig. and some of us can't afford the high end.
there are less modelers, now. the last big mod group has broken up
sov001 was being a Drama Llama about it
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Excalibur just got called "vaporware" on the facebook image page. people still don't believe you guys will pull it off at all.
I think you'll pull it off, but it'll be too high end for someone without a gaming rig. and some of us can't afford the high end.
Speculation. Believe me, the dev build I have on my machine isnt vapourware. :)
And since even the devs don't know what the final hardware spec will be, anything out in public is pure.... speculation. :P
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people will say what they will...
but when they are playing it, in some time, their socks will be knocked off and theyll be eating their words when they said previous that it wouldnt happen...
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A lot of the people that say those things have no idea how games work. A lot of the people that do know that are working on Excalibur. :P
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A lot of the people that say those things have no idea how games work. A lot of the people that do know that are working on Excalibur. :P
Agreed, they obviously haven't read the ReadMe topic on the Excal forum. But some people just like scaremongering for their 5 seconds of fame, lol.
Anyway, I'm derailing the thread topic, sorry Jimmy.
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Anyway, I'm derailing the thread topic, sorry Jimmy.
not to worry - i think the original point has been made from both sides and really not much more can be said about it from either perspective... discussion of excalibur is much more awesome and exciting :D