Updating BC

[JimmyB76]

ugh i wish we could just break into the exe and mod from there...  sigh

[Tethys]

Jimmy, the guys over at Armada Fleet Command (of which I was a admin during 2009-2011) have done just that with the game Birth of the Federation. Company went out of business and the source code completely vanished. Only way to mod the game was to use IDA Pro for disassembly and HxD to tediously hex edit code. Assembly editing is crap and always creates bugs, but I doubt BC source code is around anymore, so I think that's the only way to do it.

Perhaps a patch can be created so the exe doesn't have to be directly edited? I'm not sure. Regardless, at least some disassembly is probably also required for that.

[FekLeyr Targ]

"Wing Commander Prophecy Unlimited" and the "X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project" use DLL-hooks to extend modability of these games.

https://www.wcnews.com/chatzone/threads/wing-commander-prophecy-unlimited.28146/
http://www.xwaupgrade.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11772

(If that info raises legal concerns, please feel free to remove this post.)

[Tethys]

There was a guy at AFC also by the name of Flocke who used DLL hooks to completely replace the ship combat engine for BotF, and that game was published back in 1999 so it was developed 97/98 using Falcon 4 engine. Very good quality for its time.

[JimmyB76]

let's do that dammit!

[Morgan]

let's do that dammit!

I'm in agreement.  Seriously, BC is 16 years old.  If it was a person, it'd be old enough to drive a car.  Activision lost the rights to the Star Trek IP.  Totally Games' status is unknown - according to Wikipedia they went belly up in 2015, but there's no source on that.  Their last game appears to have been released in 2011, however.

At what point can we safely consider BC abandonware and do what we need to do with it to fix the engine problems?

[Darkthunder]

At what point can we safely consider BC abandonware and do what we need to do with it to fix the engine problems?

Think you pretty much summed it up:

- The publisher no longer has the rights to the IP
- The developer no longer exists (as far as we know)

It is by definition, abandonware. So I say, hack away! Let's bring BC upto 2018.

[King Class Scout]

guys, th big problem here with the rights to bridge Commander is the fact that activision may have lost the rights, but who says the programmers, CBS/Paramount, or BLIZZARD (who now OWNS activision, btw) didn't snatch them right up?  heck, Bethesda and its owners might actually have them!

[Mark McWire]

guys, th big problem here with the rights to bridge Commander is the fact that activision may have lost the rights, but who says the programmers, CBS/Paramount, or BLIZZARD (who now OWNS activision, btw) didn't snatch them right up?  heck, Bethesda and its owners might actually have them!

The biggest problem anyway is that modification without the original source code is damn difficult. It's probably easier to use an own engine and just put the existing Python scripts on it.

[FekLeyr Targ]

The biggest problem anyway is that modification without the original source code is damn difficult. It's probably easier to use an own engine and just put the existing Python scripts on it.

Like ScummVM, OpenRA or Red Alert++?
Perhabs even pre-existing engines like UE4 or Unity could be used. "X-Wing Virtual Machine" (X-WingVM/XWVM) uses the latter.

[Mario]

Seems like a lot of posts went off topic here.

This seems rather as an interesting change you made Mark. Mind porting this script into current BC modding format in the form of a foundation patch?

[FekLeyr Targ]

Seems like a lot of posts went off topic here.

As the topic on "How to update BC" is very interesting:
Shall we open a new thread for that so this one stays on topic?

[Morgan]

As the topic on "How to update BC" is very interesting:
Shall we open a new thread for that so this one stays on topic?

That's a good idea so it prevents Mark's thread from going more off topic.  Topic split.

guys, th big problem here with the rights to bridge Commander is the fact that activision may have lost the rights, but who says the programmers, CBS/Paramount, or BLIZZARD (who now OWNS activision, btw) didn't snatch them right up?  heck, Bethesda and its owners might actually have them!

This is a valid point but who knows how likely this is?  I think if Blizzard got the rights they'd be pushing out new Trek titles.  And to the point others have made, other Activision Trek games have had their .exe modified - Armada II with Fleet Ops, and even Elite Force on multiple occasions.

[FekLeyr Targ]

That's a good idea so it prevents Mark's thread from going more off topic.  Topic split.

Thank you.

Just imagine what kind of features could be introduced and which bugs could be fixed by DLL-hooks:
-Stable multiplayer sessions
-No more memory leak -> BC would crash far later or not at all
-Improved graphics rendering
-Customizable shields (bubble/skin)
-Beam weapons with advanced technologies
-Customizable weapons graphics, even mesh-based ones
-[...]

[King Class Scout]

Like ScummVM, OpenRA or Red Alert++?
Perhabs even pre-existing engines like UE4 or Unity could be used. "X-Wing Virtual Machine" (X-WingVM/XWVM) uses the latter.

The biggest problem anyway is that modification without the original source code is damn difficult. It's probably easier to use an own engine and just put the existing Python scripts on it.

a chat I've had with a Linux oriented programmer agrees with the both of you, and states that he would need to see the source code as well. I had to remind him that the original source disk is both hard to find and expensive.  the subject had come up while we were discussing ways I could save my older hardware and software.  I'm still bound and determined to provide what I have in my archives to restore missing pieces of the mod catalog.  McWire also has me wanting to pull out some of the glitchier scripts so he can look at them.
congratulations, Mister McWire, you've poked the interest back awake in this game.  well done.

[vonfrank]

I am all for this!

The game is so old that I would be willing to bet NOBODY would care if we did crack the exe and tinker with the source code. Especially if we don't plan to make money from it.

Besides, whats the worst that could happen? 

[Morgan]

No matter what way the community decides to proceed, I'm all for it.  We're long past the days when Activision was making Star Trek titles, and it seems Totally Games is long gone.  I think BC belongs to us now - considering how much we've modded this game I'd be willing to bet that we know more about it than the original programmers at this point.

Another longshot option to maybe consider:  Contacting Lawrence Holland (the former owner of Totally Games) and seeing if he might have a way to retrieve the code?  Or at least advise us on the status of the game officially?

[Tethys]

Another longshot option to maybe consider:  Contacting Lawrence Holland (the former owner of Totally Games) and seeing if he might have a way to retrieve the code?  Or at least advise us on the status of the game officially?

Chances are the source code is long gone. Especially after a company goes under. Hard drives get formatted and sold, discs get thrown away. Best case scenario, the owner saved the source code on a extra hard drive or series of cd's, and he is willing to publish it online. However, there may be underlying restraints, as the case with BotF, we contacted Atari and even the lead developer for BotF, Atari didn't have the source code, but the lead developer either does have it or has a majority of it, however he is not legally allowed to distribute the source code because he worked on the project and it creates a conflict of interest. I was told he would have to do it anonymously. AFC still does not have access to source from my knowledge.

But it's definitely worth a shot! Perhaps if Lawrence Holland is a dead end, the next step is finding the lead developer for BC.

[FekLeyr Targ]

Perhaps if Lawrence Holland is a dead end, the next step is finding the lead developer for BC.

While checking BC's credits on Mobygames (see link below), I wasn't able to find a Lead Developer but two guys in Game System Programming:
David Litwin (who was also the Project Leader): http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,11141/
Erik Novales: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,57702/

BC's credits on MobyGames:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/star-trek-bridge-commander/credits

Edit: According to an article on Gamespot, BC's engine is called NetImmerse 3.0.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/bridge-commander-engine-details/1100-2589046/

[Morgan]

Looks like if anyone would have it, David Litwin is the most likely candidate.