Author Topic: Warp drive possible in reality?  (Read 4488 times)

gclark03

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2008, 10:33:06 AM »
Because the robots were probably incapable of either doing the job at all, or being trusted by our space agencies to do the job.

Offline Villain

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2008, 10:55:35 AM »
Machines build many things, including stuff inside the shuttle. If they trust them to build parts for shuttles, they can just as easily entrust them with construction of the ISS. Cheaper, safer, and hell, remote controlled. It worked for the Mars Rover.


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Offline Nighthawk

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2008, 11:45:04 AM »
Quote
In other words, there has to be some reason why the large, expensive starship, with its fancy matter/antimatter reactor, was chosen over an unmanned probe with lithium-ion batteries.

if by the 24th century, after centuries and centuries of research, you get to handle matter/antimatter reactors, fusion reactors, graviton generators, force fields, trasporters and phasers, not completely by own discovery, but by help of outside cultures... why not use them?

the most important device we need to develop might not be a FTL drive, but a replicator.
stop hunger, raise the living quality, increase the population, and start over.....

intrepid90

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2008, 01:20:04 PM »
The Alcubierre drive is a long shot, but is it possible to create a matter/antimatter reactor at all? I assume that the only thing stopping your grandfather's nuclear reactor from operating the warp drive in Star Trek is the energy demand.

If I remmeber correctly, in our time you need more power to get a fusion becuase M and AM reject each other.so your output would be less than input.

basically the same like in "Illuminati"
those fusions are described way too powerful

Offline MLeo

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2008, 01:29:06 PM »
Sure it's possible to create a matter/anti-matter reactor, but it will be just a rather powerfull battery. Since we need to make antimatter in the first place, which will, if you achive 100% efficiency, yield just as much energy you put in. But that doesn't even mention storage of said Antimatter, since any matter (_any_ matter) will result in the annihilation of both the matter and the antimatter (in equal parts, meaning it will go on just as long as their is either matter or antimatter). But the storage costs energy as well.
I still can't read peoples minds, nor can I read peoples computers, even worse, I can't combine the two to read what is going wrong with your BC install...

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gclark03

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2008, 02:52:24 PM »
Is the likelihood of creating a M/AM reactor any higher than creating an Alcubierre drive in our lifetime?

intrepid90

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2008, 03:05:44 PM »
a m/am reactor is technically possible, but the problem is it wont be effective due to the above mentioned problem,  more input than output.
and didnt the CERN already let react M/AM? (not sure about this point)

gclark03

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2008, 03:10:10 PM »
I don't recall nuclear fusion being equal to a M/AM reaction, but I could be wrong. Science just isn't my strong suit - language is.

Offline MLeo

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2008, 05:04:43 PM »
Nuclear fusion, or fission, aren't anything like M/AM. You can have a M/AM with atoms/molecules, and with protons and negatons, and electrons and positrons. But you can't do nuclear fission or fusion with electrons. ;)

Each element has a specific "strength", it's actually a curve. This strength is actually energy holding together the atom, and is in fact responsible why some atoms have a relatively "low" half-life (half-life is the time in which it takes for half of a volume of atoms to "self destruct" on their own, uranium has a relative low half-life, of 704 million years for 235 (an "isotope" of uranium, the word describes it perfectly so I won't go into everything, otherwise I'll be repeating most of my physics and chemistry lessons :P). But iron, which has the greatest strength btw, is in 3 of 7 isotopes "stable", meaning it either has no half-life or we haven't been able to measure it yet.

Now, both fission and fusion work on the fact that different elements have different strengths. In case of fission, you break up an atom by sending some other, fast moving, particle at it, say, another piece of uranium proppeled by an explosive (basis for atleast Hiroshima type nuclear bombs). So the atom breaks up, but into what? Two smaller atoms. Now these other atoms will have different strengths. And if you add everything up, you will notice that there is a discrepancy between everything. Where did that energy go? Remember, nothing gets lost, ever, maybe it is just converted into something else. In this case, radiation, either gamma, beta or alpha, mostlikely a mixture of all 3. Gamma is pure energy (in fact a high frequency em wave/particle, an actual form of light), beta radiation are electrons and alpha radiation are helium nuclei (sp). Where am I going? The act of going from an unstable to a more stable element releases energy, since less needs to be used to keep it stable. And that energy can be converted into heat which drives a steam turbine.

Anyway, fission works the same way, except it's going the other way around, we combine atoms into bigger ones, for example, deuterium (yes, they are one and the say) into helium. And again, here, from going from a more unstable to a more stable element releases energy.

You can keep combining atoms all the way up to iron, and then it will take far more energy to combine the cores than you get out of it (in fact, you won't get energy out of it). The same with coming from uranium all the way down to iron, when you get to iron, you will need more energy to break it up than you get out of it.



Now how is this diffrent from M/AM? When Matter and Antimatter collide (just touch is enough), they annihilation eachother producing gamma radiation (any M/AM reaction does this, and maybe "rest" matter or antimatter, if the mix ratio isn't 1:1). And that gamma radiation can be used to heat up water, and the steam driving a turbine.
I still can't read peoples minds, nor can I read peoples computers, even worse, I can't combine the two to read what is going wrong with your BC install...

"It was filed under 'B' for blackmail." - Morse, Inspector Morse - The dead of Jericho.

Offline Wolf

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2008, 06:11:47 PM »
I am sure I read somewhere about the theory of using antimatter in the form of antihydrogen with hydrogen, and when combined would give an extremely powerful blast of energy.  A minute amount would potentially create a larger detonation if uncontrolled than a typical nuclear detonation.

By the way, don't the ships in ST have main power generators and the core is auxiliary for very power intensive operations (i.e. shields, weapons, warp drive etc.)?  Also, if I remember rightly, they have to replenish the storage tanks sometimes, was it deuterium and anti-matter tanks?

faro0485

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2008, 09:02:59 AM »
*Yawn*

Just stick a couple of long magnets on your space craft, with some wire and what not, and you're done.

Offline MLeo

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2008, 02:20:18 PM »
First of all, you need equal parts of antimatter and matter to get energy from it, and 99% (or something like that) of the universe is matter, not antimatter.

So you need to make it, and to do that, you need at least the same amount of energy you want to get out.


And if nothing can convince you, you need infinite energy to go faster than light, and to do that you need atleast all the matter of the universe, and then equal part of antimatter as well. In other words, you never attain that. ;)
I still can't read peoples minds, nor can I read peoples computers, even worse, I can't combine the two to read what is going wrong with your BC install...

"It was filed under 'B' for blackmail." - Morse, Inspector Morse - The dead of Jericho.

Offline Wolf

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2008, 06:54:41 PM »
But can we travel at the speed of light?  :arms:

Offline Kirk

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2008, 07:29:15 PM »
Right now? no

Offline Nighthawk

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2008, 09:20:23 AM »
well... not unless you are an atom inside the LHC  :D

Offline Nebula

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2008, 09:57:39 AM »
well... not unless you are an atom inside the LHC  :D

That still doesn't quite make it to the speed of light.
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Offline MLeo

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2008, 10:21:39 AM »
A single proton (even lighter than an atom) doesn't make it to the speed of light in the LHC. And even that feat requires massive amounts of power. Now, scale that up, and you will need such gigantic amounts of power, that you would need to perfectly convert entire star clusters into power.
I still can't read peoples minds, nor can I read peoples computers, even worse, I can't combine the two to read what is going wrong with your BC install...

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Offline ECGadget

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2008, 06:37:07 AM »
I think warp drive is possible... however the power consumption is a lot larger than what a standard Matter/Antimatter core can provide... I believe it is something of 3 times more power to get it at the speeds where time is distorted and bent. In reality, Warp drive warps everything around an object and bends space so that a destination is closer. That way the object travelling at warp is not actually moving that fast in in it's own realm, but is in ours

Offline MLeo

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2008, 01:46:33 PM »
I think warp drive is possible... however the power consumption is a lot larger than what a standard Matter/Antimatter core can provide... I believe it is something of 3 times more power to get it at the speeds where time is distorted and bent. In reality, Warp drive warps everything around an object and bends space so that a destination is closer. That way the object travelling at warp is not actually moving that fast in in it's own realm, but is in ours
Hmm... infinity/3 is still infinity, and matter/anti-matter doesn't produce infinite energy. ;)
I still can't read peoples minds, nor can I read peoples computers, even worse, I can't combine the two to read what is going wrong with your BC install...

"It was filed under 'B' for blackmail." - Morse, Inspector Morse - The dead of Jericho.

Offline ECGadget

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Re: Warp drive possible in reality?
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2008, 02:46:51 PM »
ur right about that, but infinity/3 is not still infinity, it 1/3 infinity... unlike zero, infinity does have a value, just nobody knows what it is!