Author Topic: Station armament  (Read 748 times)

Offline starfox1701

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Station armament
« on: March 31, 2013, 01:11:55 AM »
There is no cannon weapon load out but there is no reason the thing couldn't be as well armed as DS9

Offline JimmyB76

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Station armament
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 01:15:55 AM »
There is no cannon weapon load out but there is no reason the thing couldn't be as well armed as DS9
thats what i was thinking...

Offline Saquist

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Station armament
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 01:43:09 AM »
The Orbital City is well over 200 times DS9's mass.  These stations can crew several million people.  We know they are not only placed around Federation Home Worlds but also within range of outlying colonies near the Bajoran/Cardassian region and at the Romulan Neutral Zone.  There were at least two of these stations in the Sol Sector.

So we must question where the Technology to rearm DS9 came from.  We can assume that Star Fleet has defense satellites with this sort of offensive ability but we've never seen them. Likely they do exist in a tactical sense but just were never allotted production budget to show.  What we do know is that there is somewhere in the Federation where other stations literally have the firepower to swat a Bird of Prey in an instant and hull Vor'cha cruisers and D7's in perhaps the most wicked volley of projectiles I've ever seen...  Likely the Breen strike Force met it's end fleeing this station's long arm, because not one survived.

To me it makes sense to put these weapons on a larger defensive platform which can survive steady bombardment rather than just satellites.
I'll talk canon with the best of them but for me common sense wins out.

(Edit)  
If Canon says that the Allied Dominion forces had 30,000 ships then it's pretty clear that Federation wasn't using it's 40 to 50,000 ships to guard space stations but to fight a superior enemy.
I don't buy for a moment that a station of this magnitude needed defending  from any number of freighters.
Not only do I believe Starbase 12 shields could take the hit but I believe it has to be far too well armed near the Briar Patch between Cardassian and Romulan space, not need nothing short of a full fleet of no less than a thousand to bring it down.

(P.S)
And it's too bad we never saw that battle...

Offline Shadowknight1

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Station armament
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 10:39:46 AM »
One thing I'll point out, just to play devil's advocate a bit, if these stations were very well armed, then wouldn't the Breen have had a harder time hitting Earth?

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Offline Phoenix Bondi

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Station armament
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2013, 11:55:07 AM »
One thing I'll point out, just to play devil's advocate a bit, if these stations were very well armed, then wouldn't the Breen have had a harder time hitting Earth?

"sniggers" good point

Offline Nebula

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Station armament
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 12:31:17 PM »
depends on the stations orbit... it could have been on the other side of Earth at the time of the attack...
Canon is what people argue exists on ships that don't exist.

Offline Saquist

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Station armament
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2013, 01:02:15 PM »
Deep Space Nine may have been the Best Trek Series but it was the worse at stringing together it's expanded story.
No one thought out the Dominion War Story so it was rather thrown together and the pieces don't fit at all.

There have been numerous explanations to try an explain all these issues:

-How and when did the Federation over come the shield issues Odyssey had in the first encounter?
-How did the Federation win a war with no major Fleet Victories.
-Why did the enemy retreat from DS9 when they out numbered Star Fleet 2 to 1?  An even fight still favors the Dominion in Fire Power.
-How did the Klingons hold off 30,000 enemy ships with only 1,500? (and squandering them)
-If the Klingons can deploy planetary defense grids around captured Cardassian worlds why doesn't Bajor have one from the Federation?
-If the Federation had a year to rearm DS9 to repel a 50 ship fleet then why didn't Earth and Betazed  have the ability to repel their respective attacks.
-If Earth has a defense system as said in Paradise Lost (where was it in the attack)?
-Why don't we ever see a Federation ship aside from Defiant fire on a Dominion vessel in 3 years after Odyssey was attacked?
*and my personal favorites*
-Where the hell are the shields in all these battles!
-Where the hell is the Enterprise in these battles!
-Where are Star Fleets UBER ships (Sovereign and Prometheus)?
-If the Dominion Battleship was such a problem (for one the most powerful warships in the quadrant) why no other stories about defeating it?

My explanation is a mixture of classical Berman Blame and poor concept structure for the War Arc.  The Xindi War seemed better assembled than this.  Some in the Bridge Commander community say the Breen had cloaking devices (it is inferred in canon) and that's how they got through.  Books have said there was an Dominion Operative on Earth that disabled the Planetary Defenses prior to the attack and that fighters were the cause of what little damage we saw.  But don't look for any consistency from the narrative.

Much of the Dominion War Arc that we saw was more for Dramatic Effect than actual story telling.  They needed the War to look dire so they had a fleet completely destroyed.  Federation ships like Odyssey were never given a fair fight and engagement but they had numerous miraculous victories with not much in the way of tactics to support it.  They stalled the War for a Year and once it began just shy of half of each of those season had nothing to do with the war at all...even to the point of sparse on dialogue.  And to rap it up quickly instead of a decisive action by the allies the invented disease earlier was given a cure to offer to end the blood shed.  As plot devices go these aren't bad at all but it's the total view that has a lot of missing pieces.

So if you're expecting canon to tell you something specific (especially in DS9) like whether a Starbase should have weapons, you might be disappointed.  It depends on the plot. 

Offline FarShot

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Station armament
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2013, 01:15:09 PM »
Exactly.  And as far as plot goes, the TMP dock doesn't require any weapons.  When I make Starbase 12 for the SP mod, then I might weaponize her.

Offline Vortex

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Station armament
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 03:02:41 PM »
Similar things could be said with regards to Best of Both Worlds and First Contact. There wasn't anything in Earth orbit to stop the Borg. Hell, there was no sign of the flamin' Starbase. And the Borg broke past Mars defense and didn't assimilate Utopia Planitia?

Anyway, as regards to this mod; I say give it some serious firepower. How many un-armed/ un-prepared ships does this thing have to protect at anyone time? These things would have been armed to the teeth.

Excellent work on it as well.

Offline starfox1701

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Station armament
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 11:28:09 PM »
I think the station would be heavy on phasers over torpedos.

Offline Saquist

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Station armament
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2013, 11:58:18 PM »
Space stations can't move much...the longer range weapon (torpedoes) would make more sense.  These weapons are far more powerful, can cover a starsystem in 15 seconds and travel at warp.  Phasers would only have a range from Earth to moon before it's light speed limit allows enemies to evade them as well as limited to line of sight.  Torps can fire over a planet on obstacles and home in on targets.

Offline BFGfreak

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Station armament
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 12:48:00 AM »
A possible solution to the breen attack on Earth was that they were flying under a flag of truce with the intention of surprising the federation with their energy weapon then glassing Earth. However the second the breen fleet twitched the wrong way the Earth fleets decimated the breen before they had a chance to employ their secret weapon. However the federation's firepower was so devastating that they could barely recognize the energy weapon as such until after it was deployed in that other system, and even then they were so far damaged they couldn't make heads or tails of it. Saying Earth was that tough a nut to crack would also explain why the dominion didn't simply beeline straight there before the federation decided to retake DS9.

Granted it's not perfect and I'm sure alot of you can point out several flaws with my plan (such as the borg), but I do like the idea of the Breen announcing their alliance with the dominion by attempting to recreate Pearl Harbor and failing.
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Offline Kophjaeger

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Station armament
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 05:59:13 PM »
Armed, yes. Absolutely. Capable of fleet defense? Maybe not. DS9 is the example of what the most strategically important post in the Quadrant was armed. Similarly, firmbases in Afghanistan have heavily defended perimeters and ordinance loaded air craft on station, whereas an Air Force base has a fence, a police force, and a camera coordinated reaction team. In terms of quality of infrastructure and number of people stationed where, the forward base is much simpler however, thus size does not equal armaments.

Saquist made some fair points, even on topic. I have to remind myself that it's a show, it has to be built around the people. Did they over do some things? Sure. Did they need to explain every play by play? No. Any story about soldiers in a foxhole focuses on the foxhole, not the details of the Battle of the Bulge or rings around Rabaul.

I'd think torpedo heavy for indirect fire capabilities, and considering that a network of satellites are probably intended to wear down an aggressor before it gets near the base. The Breen attack could have simply overwhelmed the network's capacity. Remember Sum of all Fears?

Offline captain_obvious

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Re: Station armament
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2013, 09:01:29 PM »
I'd say torpedoes.  Not as power hungry as energy weapons from what I've read.

btw, could the Breen not have found an exploit in the defensive systems of earth, much like hackers manage to crack open "unhackable" systems?
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