Author Topic: Star Trek: Discovery Discussion (WARNING: SPOILERS)  (Read 55879 times)

Offline ACES_HIGH

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #240 on: February 04, 2018, 02:48:43 PM »
we do know that at some point between DSC and TOS they establish a neutral zone, and we also know that the Federation is much smaller in TOS than in the TNG era.  We also find out from the 2nd Federation-Klingon war in DS9 that the Federation and Klingons had disputes over the claim of some sectors in the border region.  On  top of that, in The Vulcan Hello, it is implied that the Klingons had a claim over the Binary System, which the Federation seems to think is within their sphere of influence.

I think it's entirely possible for the Federation to lose ground in this war.  They'll probably gain most of it back by the end of the season.  Look at the Korean War, both sides exchanged huge amounts of territory before they settled on the 38th parallel.

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #241 on: February 04, 2018, 03:12:10 PM »
Discovery having the cloaking frequency will also help the Federation.

Also the Federation losing 1/3 of the fleet might also explain why there are only 12 connies in TOS

Seems like an awfully low number for such a large area of space.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #242 on: February 05, 2018, 12:53:55 AM »
we do know that at some point between DSC and TOS they establish a neutral zone
Actually the Federation-Klingon neutral zone isn't mentioned until the movies.  "Federation: The First 150 Years" runs with this by having the Treaty of Organia (which allowed Klingons on Federation facilities like K7 as we saw in "The Trouble With Tribbles") be replaced with a different one that confines the Klingons to their borders in exchange for a large chunk of dilithium (thus ended the dilithium dispute as the Federation had recently admitted Coridan).  Nimbus III is essentially at the junction between the Klingon and Romulan neutral zones and is established not long after.

I love that book so much  :D

================================

Onto this week's episode of Discovery....

Another good one to me.  Quieter than "What's Past is Prologue" which is appropriate considering they have to catch their berrings from that episode and prepare for the season finale.  It was much more character-focused like DS9 tended to be.  Some highlights for me:

 - Staments and Tyler's conversation in the corridoor regarding Culber's death
 - The crew rallying behind Tyler instead of shunning him (very Trek-like)
 - Archer/NX-01 name drop
 - Admiral Cornwell really fits in with the Discovery crew well.  I like her being in command
 - Of course if you saw the ending.... Obviously Cornwell's not going to be commanding Discovery in the finale.  Anyone wanna speculate how this will turn out?

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #243 on: February 09, 2018, 02:33:30 PM »
Huh, so the reason Michael and the Emperor beam onto separate pads 2 episodes ago is because it was like that in TOS. I'd been so use to later series keeping people together, I thought it was a change DSC made.

https://twitter.com/karterhol/status/961242012551856129
https://twitter.com/karterhol/status/961268728926167040

Offline Morgan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #244 on: February 12, 2018, 01:29:39 AM »
Well, season one of Discovery has officially come to a close.

Overall, for the episode itself, I have to admit I was a bit underwhelmed.  The Klingon War closes by giving L'Rell a bomb she can use to blow up her homeworld if the Klingons don't follow her lead.  She is much more interested in uniting the Klingon people than she is in waging a war with the Federation, but the way it closes out just seems a little too clean.  However, it does give some cover for "negotiations breaking down" in "Errand of Mercy".

I'm sad to see Tyler go, but given the direction his character too, it's doubtful he'd be able to continue on Discovery as a Starfleet officer like Burnham can.  I do hope we see him again, because I see a lot of potential for him.

Letting Georgiou go... Tough call in a bad situation but I still think it is risky.  We never actually see her return to the mirror universe, so maybe she'll end up becoming Discovery's Q?  Discovery's Shran?  Discovery's Dukat?  There's a lot of angles they can work with her.

And then of course, the moment we've all known was coming for years.  The USS Enterprise NCC-1701 herself, in the prime timeline, reimagined for 2018.  Honestly, it really could have been much, much worse.  In fact, I'll dare say it actually doesn't look bad at all.  As far as the changes go, it looks like they're limited to making the ship a little more rugged and realistic looking, and less 60s.  The shape is the same.  The deflector, lower sensor dome, and nacelle bussards are easily recognizable.  The way the show lights up its space scenes (please, PLEASE more natural lighting for season two) makes it hard to get a read on the hull - it's definitely more metallic but it's impossible to get a good eye at the coloring, but from what I CAN see it seems mostly ok.  The nacelle struts, however, are much more reminiscent of the TMP Enterprise than the TOS one, and that's one think I'm not too keen on.  Still, we knew this visual reboot was coming, and I think the changes strike a good balance between respecting the original and making the ship work with today's production values.

As for season one as a whole, I think it had its ups and downs like any show does in its first year, but for the most part was good on its own merits.  I still despise the Klingon redesign... Really, I hate the new Klingon look with a passion, especially since ENT: "Affliction" and "Divergence" gave us not just an explanation for the smooth-headed Klingons, but also provided fertile story telling opportunities (how do the Augment Klingons fit in traditional Klingon society?  Do they take power?  Are they cannon-fodder?).  In the end though, I for one am happy to have new Trek after 12 years, and am anxiously awaiting season two.  :D

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #245 on: February 12, 2018, 07:26:10 AM »
It's like they read my mind when they designed her. That's almost exactly what I wanted.

I'm honestly surprised they kept the deflector that close to the original, I was expected 2 prongs and glowing back like every other ship in the series. (but I'm happy it isn't, though it's going to make it hard to see in some shots)

I don't like those cutouts in the nacelle pylons.


some stuff on Season 2 and other things
http://ew.com/tv/2018/02/11/star-trek-discovery-finale-season-2-interview/

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #246 on: February 12, 2018, 08:30:08 AM »
Events are also allegedly the same.

Even in the interview I linked above he goes on how they’re bound by canon by who could possibly be on the enterprise at this point in time. (Which doesn’t make much sense because we know very little about the span of time between The Cage in season one)

He does say they’re not bound to anything in the Kelvin movies.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #247 on: February 12, 2018, 11:10:26 AM »
Events are also allegedly the same.

Correct.  Discovery is stated to be a visual reboot only, which I can live with.  If that's how they're gonna change up the Enterprise for 2018, I'm not worried at all.

The Klingons though... I really hope they abandon the season one look and go for a more traditional TOS/TNG look.  The Augment Virus IS canon, and Discovery missed a huge opportunity to explain how that plays into the infighting in the Empire.  Just go back to a more traditional Klingon look - or hell even swipe the Into Darkness Klingons from JJ.  The helmets were a cool way to leave the Augment issue on the side if needed (do they wear the helmets to "hide the shame" of their transformation?) and looked pretty badass on top of it.  The changes Discovery made to the Klingons are simply way too much.  Also, their version of a D7 is NOT a fucking D7.  I like you, Discovery, but don't do that again.

I would really like to see season two try out the mini arc format from Enterprise's fourth season.  It gave us a sense of serialization without tying the whole year down to one story arc.  It seems the Klingon War story line was Discovery's "foot in the door", and now that it's done and greenlit for season two they need to figure out its own thing.  Mini arcs let them do that - if a story line isn't great, it won't bog the whole season down.  If it's awesome, they can follow up more later.

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #248 on: February 12, 2018, 11:36:39 AM »
There was a Klingon wearing cheap looking TNG armour in this episode. His make up was still DSC though.



There was also a Trill


Offline Morgan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #249 on: February 12, 2018, 11:40:28 AM »
There was a Klingon wearing cheap looking TNG armour in this episode. His make up was still DSC though.
Yeah that's definitely a step in the right direction.  I imagine if they do tone down the Klingon makeup they wouldn't do it in season one (for consistency).  I'm just crossing my fingers for season two.  The producers seem aware that the level of changes to them rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way.  Let's hope they listen to the fans on this one.

And oh yeah!  Always good to see a Trill.  Dax's host in this time period is either Emony (gymnast) or Audrid (mother/house wife/Symbiosis Commission member).  Next up is Torias (2284) and Joran, both killed within a year before moving onto Curzon in 2285, so I doubt we'll see any Dax in this show.

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #250 on: February 12, 2018, 11:57:35 AM »
In the early episodes, when L'Rell and Voq don't have their battle armour on, the shirts they're wearing are very reminiscent of the TOS Klingon outfit as well.

The Klingon empire at this point isn't centralized, each House has their own style, with L'Rell uniting the houses, we'll probably start seeing a more unified look for their joint military forces.

Another Q&A on the Finale
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2018/02/12/star-trek-discovery-producers-on-that-crazy-season-1-finale

Offline ACES_HIGH

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #251 on: February 12, 2018, 03:42:14 PM »
DSC being roughly 3 years since The Cage, I was a bit disappointed that they didn't use the Pilot Enterprise, but there is plenty of time to explain a refit to TOS specs if we just retcon it's appearance in The Cage/Menagerie, which was already slightly retconned in TOS when they dropped the translucent warp effect.  I just hope that the interior atleast isn't completely reimagined.  Desperate Hours already established that Enterprise has a standard 2d viewscreen already, two years before DSC.  I also hope we see them wearing pilot uniforms as established in the same book.  It'd be a shame to discount a tie in book that's only been out a couple of months.

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #252 on: February 12, 2018, 04:41:04 PM »
It's a visual reboot, they're not going to explain why it looks different from the TOS version.

If they make it to TOS, they might add the 'balls' to the end of the nacelles. As it's only a minor change.

As for the interior, according to an interview, if they do it they'll update it to fit what we've seen in DSC so far, but not completely change it. Just like they did with the Connie and the props.

As for the uniforms, there are out of focus officers wearing alternate uniforms during Burnham's speech/award ceremony

https://twitter.com/TrekCore/status/963122773769031680



Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #253 on: February 12, 2018, 05:03:42 PM »
It's a visual reboot, they're not going to explain why it looks different from the TOS version.

It's an alternate timeline, that is very similar to Prime, but visually distinct. It's NOT Prime. Period.
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Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #254 on: February 12, 2018, 05:11:04 PM »
It's an alternate timeline, that is very similar to Prime, but visually distinct. It's NOT Prime. Period.

It. Is. Prime. PERIOD

Stop your fucking bullshit.

The writers and producers are god, they say it's prime it is fucking goddamn prime.

Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #255 on: February 12, 2018, 05:12:54 PM »
It. Is. Prime. PERIOD

Stop your fucking bullshit.

The writers and producers are god, they say it's prime it is fucking goddamn prime.

Stop your fucking language. Period!

"Visual Reboot" would explain some things, but not all. Alternate Timeline, explains EVERYTHING! Period.

Overall, a lackluster episode other than that last minute or so.
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Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #256 on: February 12, 2018, 05:22:15 PM »
Stop your fucking language. Period!

"Visual Reboot" would explain some things, but not all. Alternate Timeline, explains EVERYTHING! Period.

Overall, a lackluster episode other than that last minute or so.

Everything fits fine in the prime universe.

You're just to ignorant to see it.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #257 on: February 12, 2018, 09:29:19 PM »
It. Is. Prime. PERIOD

Stop your fucking bullshit.

The writers and producers are god, they say it's prime it is fucking goddamn prime.
That is not an acceptable way to talk to staff on this site.

It's a TV show, one that we love so emotions will reflect that, but we're also adults and friends here.

Chill out, man.

Calm Down Both Of You. I've seen people get banned for less - Hence, I've never participated. I think that with all the visual, Nuance and whole personality changes made (rather) newly created, it's hard to picture it fitting into "anything pre established". So, that is also why people are hating on prequels, because it gives developers too many ways to step on preexisting ideas.
While I do appreciate you wanting to calm things down, please avoid "vigilante moderating".  Just use the report button or if necessary PM a staff member directly and we'll handle it.  :)

Offline Morgan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #258 on: February 12, 2018, 09:32:54 PM »
"Visual Reboot" would explain some things, but not all. Alternate Timeline, explains EVERYTHING! Period.

Overall, a lackluster episode other than that last minute or so.
I'm fine with visual reboot (which until the producers say otherwise, it is technically), but I do wish the show would just be an alternate timeline.  Not so much because of the visual changes (except the Klingons, fuck the new double-dicked Klingons), but because it just lets the show do what it wants without being hamstrung by the other shows.

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Star Trek Discovery (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #259 on: February 13, 2018, 05:02:29 AM »
I'm fine with visual reboot (which until the producers say otherwise, it is technically), but I do wish the show would just be an alternate timeline.  Not so much because of the visual changes, but because it just lets the show do what it wants without being hamstrung by the other shows.

I 100% agree.