Author Topic: TREK XI - Images, Footage, Trailers, Enterprise, Discussion, etc. Thread (WARNING: SPOILERS)  (Read 206765 times)

Offline JimmyB76

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Sad. That's all I can say. A media icon has fallen, and to BASE it on a money-grabbing weak attempt of a show like Enterprise is beyond insane. Don;t get me wrong, Enterprise had it's moments, but when a show doesn't get interesting until it's fourth season, there's something wrong. And to try and revamp a franchise based upon it is ludicrous. The much-touted special effects were really things we've all seen a thousand times by now. The FX in the first 5 minutes of Revenge of the Sith were far better. Star Trek has never been about the special effects, but the humanity of the characters. This movie struck me as shallow, and not well thought-out. It destroyed the Trek legacy, apparently just for the sake of destroying it.

I really tried to go into this one with an open mind, I really did, even though I was fairly sure it would end up like this. And I'm sure my view will not be very popular on this board because it is mostly populated with neo-trekkies who started watching with TNG or DS9 or Voyager. This is not the Star Trek I have loved for more than 25 years. To wipe out 43 years of history-making franchise to try and get the teen ticket buyers in is not good motivation. Had this featured the TNG/DS9/VOY cast in a final send-off before resetting history, it might be more palatable. And a decent Trek director, like Nick Meyer or Jonathan Frakes, might have made it believable. They could have given it the attention necessary to at least mask the fact that this was a blind grab for money for Paramount. Instead, we get JJ Abrams, a very typical director for this day and age who focuses too much on "epic" shots and effects and completely glosses over the character interactions and social issues that made Star Trek great.

It was a fairly good Trek story, but it could have been told just as well, if not better, with the a new 24th century crew and a new Enterprise-F. I mean, how many times do we need a time-travel story? And rather than passing this off as an alternate timeline, or something preserving Trek's past, Abrams completely obliterates it in favor of this slick, glossy ghost of Trek that doesn't stand out at all from other recent sci-fi fare. What makes this inexcusable is not the execution of the movie itself, but the cold disregard for what came before. To throw a few random one-liners from McCoy into the movie is just a lame attempt to keep diehard Trek fans from burning this one at the stake.

The cast was actually pretty good, and this only throws into relief the fact that this movie could have been a solid and enduring installment of the Trek franchise. The only gripe I had was with the characterization of Kirk. Chris Pine did a decent job, but the character comes off as a jerk and and egomaniac. Is there something wrong these days with having a truly heroic character that we don;t have to weigh down with a lot of personality problems?

The new Enterprise has been discussed thoroughly for the past year. Some love it, some hate it. I for one hate it incredibly. It has taken the distinctive look of Trek and made it look homogeneous with every other slick CGI spaceship in the last 10 years. There's no character to it, and it looks so much like a 50's Cadillac that I expect to see spock beam out of it in a pimp suit.

There is one glimmer of hope for me as a Trek fan. With the movie being so Spock-centric, it is entirely possible that the older 24th Century Spock has fabricated all of this within his mind because of some mental disorder (Bendii Syndrome, anyone?)

In all, Trek is not finally dead, but continues on life support for the time being. Only time and sequels will tell if this new direction will live up to the Star Trek name, but the mission was definitely not accomplished here.
you bring up some excellent points, and i agree with just about everything you mention here...  to me, this post is definitely cookie-worthy... 
hopefully, tho, after i do wind up seeing it, ill walk out with a different feeling than how youre feeling now...  i can only hope...

Offline RCgothic

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I think it's even better than STVI and II, and I've been watching those on loop for about a week.

It ISN'T Trek as we've known it. Nero killed that future. But the cast, the effects, and the thousands of little nods of respect to what have come before make this an awesome starting point for what surely will come.

With a 96% on Rotten Tomatoes, and massive critical acclaim, there is going to be a sequel to this, and I can't wait.

Offline undedavenger

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Don't get me wrong. If there's a sequel, I'll go see it. They succeeded that far. It's just that reboots and relaunches in general just piss me off. It's hollywood. Good writing can explain anything and can turn something around in one film. Only people with no imagination wipe the slate to start over. Original Star Trek needed a good shot in the arm, not euthanasia. Actors playing other actors playing characters is not appealing to me. Strangely, it would have been better to give them new personalities as well, rather than try to emulate the TOS they were apparently so bent on wiping out. Creative writing is a lost art in Hollywood today. People would rather rehash old ideas than expand their horizons. I personally don't think this film comes anywhere near First Contact, Wrath of Khan, or Undiscovered Country in terms of quality. But we've definitely seen worse from other Star Trek projects.
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Offline Dalek

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With the movie being so Spock-centric, it is entirely possible that the older 24th Century Spock has fabricated all of this within his mind because of some mental disorder (Bendii Syndrome, anyone?)

Nope. The film is tied in with the STO timeline (2387 mostly) and then theres the Countdown comics which are all a precursor to the events in the film. I don't think JJ is stupid enough to turn a film and it's sequel into the biggest cliche in the history of story making: It was all a dream so it never happened.
"To live on as we have is to leave behind joy, and love, and companionship, because we know it to be transitory, of the moment. We know it will turn to ash. Only those whose lives are brief can imagine that love is eternal. You should embrace that remarkable illusion. It may be the greatest gift your race has ever received."

 - Lorien

Offline undedavenger

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That's is however your opinion, and IMO he succeed to bring Trek back....

No matter the concessions made some fans will never be satisfied.

No, you can't please everybody, and I realize that. I'm not bashing the new direction, I guess, just mourning the loss of a friend who didn't have to die. The reason the franchise began to fail was rehashing the same plot elements and increasing shallowness. This movie carries on that tradition too much, when it could have started its own.

As for bringing back Trek, they are bringing back the name, but not the true spirit. Maybe if the next film focuses more on exploration (which is what Trek is supposed to be about after all) and less on combat, maybe I'll like it better.

There are always... possibilities.
"Books are not canon, only what you see on screen. Yes, even the horrible Voyager episode where they go past warp 10 and have crazy lizard babies."

Offline undedavenger

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With the movie being so Spock-centric, it is entirely possible that the older 24th Century Spock has fabricated all of this within his mind because of some mental disorder (Bendii Syndrome, anyone?)

Nope. The film is tied in with the STO timeline (2387 mostly) and then theres the Countdown comics which are all a precursor to the events in the film. I don't think JJ is stupid enough to turn a film and it's sequel into the biggest cliche in the history of story making: It was all a dream so it never happened.

Really? He seemed to base a lot on Enterprise, which ended exactly that way...
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Offline Nebula

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ah also this film didn't kill any the previous films or story lines that we all know in Trek it only changed some elements... There is no Vulcan now... so? What did that change in any of the previous stories? Nothing rly... Vulcan didn't play any large part in them... the only one was ST3/4? and that could be changed to the new Vulcan colony, very easily.
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Offline Aeries

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the biggest cliche in the history of story making: It was all a dream so it never happened.

I thought that was supposed to be "Happily ever after"? :P
I can't wait to see the movie. It's just too bad I can't convince my bf for the life of me to come see it with me. :( *pooh* Oh well. May see it tonight... may not. We will see. From all the facebook updates from people who generally HATED Trek, they're applauding the living shit out of it... so I think, despite the never-ending nit-picks of some, that the goal [or one of them anyways] was accomplished; bringing in fresh, new minds into Trek.

...This is bad, though... I haven't even seen the movie and I'm already really fond of the new Enterprise... I'mma go cry now kthxbi.

Offline undedavenger

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... so I think, despite the never-ending nit-picks of some, that the goal [or one of them anyways] was accomplished; bringing in fresh, new minds into Trek.


The fresh, new minds should have been in the writing and development process, not just in the audience. The audience does not decide the quality of a movie, the makers do.
"Books are not canon, only what you see on screen. Yes, even the horrible Voyager episode where they go past warp 10 and have crazy lizard babies."

Offline Aeries

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... so I think, despite the never-ending nit-picks of some, that the goal [or one of them anyways] was accomplished; bringing in fresh, new minds into Trek.


The fresh, new minds should have been in the writing and development process, not just in the audience. The audience does not decide the quality of a movie, the makers do.

Well, you are right there. But the thing is, makers have to design something they believe today's audience will accept, hence the biggest challenge in making a new Trek movie... today's needs and standards are NOT what they used to be by a LONG shot, keep in mind. So in a way, the audience does help to indirectly design the new movie without even knowing that they did. That is, however, entirely dependent on whether or not the writers in question pay attention to what the audience wants... hence, what can really make or break a writer's career and the movie in question...

What's everyone else tattering on about? o.O;

Offline Villain

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Making the spoiler tiny to be considerate of Dale.


ANYBODY WHO ISN'T DALEKANIUM2 CAN READ THIS!
Spock and Uhura? That really caught me off guard.[size]

:P


"The design is clearly ancient... Launched hundreds of thousands of years ago."

Quote from: JimmyB76
der-ner-ner-ner-ner ..... der-ner-ner-ner-ner .....
---
Quote from: Rick Sternbach, on the topic of the Galor Class' length
...Probably not, but the number I get(379.6m) could be considered ?original intent,? a term that I think I will be using from now on, and ?canon? be damned.

Offline captain_obvious

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Making the spoiler tiny to be considerate of Dale.


ANYBODY WHO ISN'T DALEKANIUM2 CAN READ THIS!

Razz

Indeed. But kirk's face when he finally realised on the transporter pad was priceless :)
Scotty's little sidekick was pretty good too! As was chekov's little voice password problem :D
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Offline RCgothic

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hehe, great moments. I think it was over-hyped (really good thing) as a love triangle though, considering that kirk doesn't get anywhere and it doesn't get an excessive amount of screentime.

Offline captain_obvious

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hehe, great moments. I think it was over-hyped (really good thing) as a love triangle though, considering that kirk doesn't get anywhere and it doesn't get an excessive amount of screentime.

Bingo RC. It's almost as if JJ had a big ass change of heart about a week before release or something...
And was it just me or was the ending really really rushed?? I thought that there was little real progression/inbetween stages between nero pwning all and nero getting pwned at the end.

2233 matey ;)
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Offline undedavenger

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A cookie to Aeries for the sage-like advice. Too true. That's why i like indie films so much. They are the film the author and director want to make, not what they think will sell. The problem with Star Trek in recent history is the desire to make it more mainstream, like Star Wars. Two different animals. Everybody emulates Star Wars when doing sci-fi, so what's the point in not distinguishing yourself? I understand that this is the Trek that most want, because most people are not free thinkers.

As for the "all the stories have been told" mentality, why make a new Trek franchise if that's true? You're practically doomed to do the same crap all over again. The human imagination is an almost limitless thing, with intelligence and correct thought process. There are plenty of stories to tell, both in this new incarnation and the original. You just have to find the correct writers.
"Books are not canon, only what you see on screen. Yes, even the horrible Voyager episode where they go past warp 10 and have crazy lizard babies."

Offline RCgothic

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Actually, Spock and Uhura are hardly sexual at all, it's played more as an emotional connection, but again it doesn't take much screen time. It IS a very good part of the film. (and kirk's face is priceless)

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Offline JimmyB76

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*thread cleaned and reopened*

this is to be said only once and wont be asked again...

guys - please remain respectful to each other - please do not show rudeness if you disagree with someone else...
if you cant be civil and mature, dont bother posting at all...
everyone is entitled to freely post how they feel about the topic, and should not be nitpicked to debate, or receive any backlash in any manner... 
also, please remain ontopic to discussion of the film, and please avoid spamming...

thx :)

Offline RCgothic

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Anyone else spot the tribble? :D

Offline WileyCoyote

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Anyone else spot the tribble?
That's the first thing I heard and saw when we all first see Scotty on Delta Vega. It was a burnt sienna-colored tribble in a white birdcage keeping it as a pet.
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Offline captain_obvious

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Anyone else spot the tribble?
That's the first thing I heard and saw when we all first see Scotty on Delta Vega. It was a burnt sienna-colored tribble in a white birdcage keeping it as a pet.

Never noticed it. I was too busy thinking scotty had gotten fashion tips from dave lister :P
And wasn't james cawley (from new voyages) in there somewhere?
I miss :bigdance: