TREK XI - Images, Footage, Trailers, Enterprise, Discussion, etc. Thread (WARNING: SPOILERS)

[JimmyB76]

blaxx you dont need to double-post...  while your point makes sense, it's based on the fact that every person who saw the movie knows about the comic, i think youre missing the point...

Again why should we have to read a comic to have the film make sense?

indeed - back to that question yet again...  
what i think is absolutely stupid and lame on the writers behalf is that if you didnt know about the comic (not everyone does) then youre still lost...  very much like every person (including myself) who asked the same questions-explained-only-in-comic here were told the same thing - "oh, that was explained in the comic"...  like alot of other people, i thought "huh?  there's a comic??"
thats the big difference...
IMO the writers could really have included alot more into the storyline to have things make sense (the many things explained only in the comic) but they chose not to do so, because god forbid this generic watered-down film would be too much like "Star Trek" in all its nerdy and geeky glory...  that, and it would have involved more work, and theyre really only interested in sales...  do as little as possible, make it all flashy and sexy and CGI-overboard, sell out and appeal to the generic audience, promote the hell out of it, use product placements; thats all they need to do really, while banking on the name... all flash and no substance...

honestly tho, the comic discussion is getting old...  is there anything left to discuss about this movie that hasnt been discussed to death yet?

[Dalek]

Here's a excerpt from, I believe the book, that explains the Enterprise looking so different.

The Constitution class was conceived by a team of designers led by Janice Newfield, a brilliant engineer and visionary. The project was at the conceptual stage in 2232 and was targeted to have working products in 10 years time. While working on improving the USS Kelvin's engines in 2233, the ship was attacked by an unknown Romulan ship. Janice was killed when a bulkhead near her was destroyed and she was sucked out into space.

When Janice died, the project was put on hold for a decade until a very bright engineering student (who, in the original timeline, many years later, oversaw the Constitution refit) named Tsi Sang helped restart the project submitting his own unique changes that were never included by the original designer, Janice Newfield (this is why the ship is more advanced looking in the movie). The project was restarted in 2244 under Sang's supervision.

The 17xx registry number set was held for the Constitution class, the prototype, the USS Constitution - 1700, tested in 2252 had many issues, while most were resolved a structural support issue could not be, so the ship was decommissioned in 2253. Sang resolved the structural issue and all the other issues and Starfleet decided to build the next Constitution (1701) on Earth where it could give the structure better gravity stress tests.

Starfleet was so impressed with this new ship that they made the first one (The Enterprise) the flagship and assigned veteran captain Chris Pike as it's commander. The Enterprise was so new in fact, that only few Starfleet personal were trained in her systems. Realizing this, Starfleet Academy started to train its students on these new systems in 2257, so by 2258 many of the older academy students could be a part of the Enterprise's crew.

According to Janice's logs it was always her intention for the first production Constitution to be named the Enterprise after the famous pre-Federation ship from the mid 22nd century. Starfleet did, respectfully, name the first production ship (1701), Enterprise even though Sang wanted the name to be The USS Yorktown.

Dammit, if only this was televised. Cos the (rather unfortunate (I believe)) canon rule is if its onscreen, its canon. If it isn't, its not canon. No matter how official Paramount or CBS make it.

[FarShot]

That's a pretty cool find right there.  Now I feel much reassured about the new design.

[JimmyB76]

ummm id like to ask for the source and proof of this information?
because after doing a google search, this "information" is mentioned only twice in two different threads at two forums (by the same person), and no proof or source or link or anything has been given in either instance... 
the general consensus is that it is fanfic aka "made up"...  sorry...
(well actually, it is said "a friend of mine read a novelization and thats what he told me", either way hearsay cannot be taken as fact or canon)

either way, this has yet to be "proven" as any fact from any direct source...  so i really wouldnt take much faith in these "facts"...

http://www.startrekmovie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7886
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=94224

[Nebula]

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/21/star-trek-adaptation-makes-new-york-times-bestseller-list/

[JimmyB76]

ok but that doesnt answer my question...  first, does anything in a book (based from a movie) make it "canon"?
second, anyone really could say "this is in the book!" and make something up...

im not trying to cast doubt any facts, frankly i could care less lol  but before people start spreading things around and accepting them as full canon, i would feel more comfortable with more proof, rather than hearing from someone who heard it from someone else that they say they read it in the novelization, you know how i mean?

[Nebula]

yeah sorry... anyway found this little thing from memory-alpha

The novelization of the film, written by Alan Dean Foster, shows several expanded sequences including some deleted scenes. In the novel Winona is given an inhibitor that would help delay the birth of James until the Kelvin's return to Earth. However, the impacts to the ship by the Narada's attack cause her to go into early labor. In several instances after Kirk is commissioned by Captain Pike, Kirk is referred to as "Lieutenant Kirk." The novel also further details Nero's motivations for attacking the Federation.

At one point the elder Spock suggests that his meeting with young Kirk on Delta Vega and various other coincidences regarding the Enterprise crew are the result of the timeline attempting to mend itself. After the young Spock resigns command and leaves the bridge, Uhura and Sulu demand to know how Kirk got aboard the Enterprise; Kirk reveals to the bridge crew about the future Spock and what he told Kirk about Nero and how the past had been changed in an attempt to gain their trust. Kirk also tells them about how they cannot tell their Spock about the elder Spock's presence and the bridge crew agrees not to do so. At the end of the book, when the elder Spock speaks to his younger counterpart, the young Spock asks Spock Prime if he might call on him occasionally for advice and Spock Prime agrees, saying "Who better to consult with you than yourself?"

Foster initially refused to do the novelization. The producers flew him to Hollywood to meet with them, the cast, and the director. After having many conversations, Foster accepted the project, rushed to meet deadlines, and had the novel ready for a December 2008 release. Star Trek writers Howard Weinstein and Robert Greenberger mentioned this at the 2009 FarPoint Convention. The novelization also appears to have been written with either a first draft or very early version of the script. Many sequences and dialogues are out of order, missing, or otherwise inconsistent with the film.

read the bold >.<

[Dalek]

This is in a book!

The Narada is actually a Borg Pinecone built by little Gummy Bears questing for power. They found Nero after Romulus was destroyed (by a big Coca Cola sweet) and hired him to destroy Vulcan just for the hell of it using bits of a red bouncy ball...

That sort of proves Jimmy's point. Yes, it's unbelievable but anything could be made up.

@Nebula's post: Bits in the bold: Well that would've helped immensely in the film.

[JimmyB76]

neb youre missing my point lol
but whatever, i really could care less about any of this specific topic anyway...
i still say that anyone could say "oh ya, a friend of mind read the book and thats what he said so it is canon!" and until it is proven or whatever, i dont buy it...  hearsay cannot be taken as fact in any situation...
i'll believe it when someone actually has the book and scans the page and posts it (unless that would be like copyright infringement or something? lol)
besides, i have heard time and time again in this thread that "if it isnt onscreen, it isnt canon" so wouldnt that qualify for books or novelizations also?
then again, i could also care less about canon arguments either anyway lol

This is in a book!

The Narada is actually a Borg Pinecone built by little Gummy Bears questing for power. They found Nero after Romulus was destroyed (by a big Coca Cola sweet) and hired him to destroy Vulcan just for the hell of it using bits of a red bouncy ball...

That sort of proves Jimmy's point. Yes, it's unbelievable but anything could be made up.

@Nebula's post: Bits in the bold: Well that would've helped immensely in the film.

indeed
*cookied*

[Nebula]

I like the idea that topic from the book brings up but I'm not naying or supporting it to be canon either.

My last post was just pointing out that the book was most likely based off an early script and has many inconsistencies.

[Shadowknight1]

There's nothing in the novels or anywhere else thus far that explains completely the reasons behind the different 1701.

And there are multiple theories on the original fate of the sucked out crew-woman, designer of the Connie, inventor of the actual 3539.9-style stardates, so on and so forth.

Having seen the movie 4 times, I feel that there is ONE subject we haven't discussed in here yet.  Onscreen "continuity" goofs.  I noticed several myself ^_^ : When we first see Capt. Robau, he has the delta symbol on his uniform.  When he sits in his command chair, it's gone, and when he and Kirk, Sr are walking to the lift, it's back!  The next was in the hanger bay at SFA.  McCoy and Kirk board a shuttle that has the low mounted large nacelles, but when the shuttle is heading for the Enterprise, suddenly they're in the "bus" type with the small nacelles mounted on top.  On the Narada, when Kirk's going through the tunnel after Spock "appropriated" his future-self's ship, Kirk is holding a long barreled weapon, which is probably a Romulan disruptor, but when the scene cuts to him aiming at Nero, he has a phaser again.  Also on the Narada, when Kirk jumps away from Ayel and barely grabs that platform edge, there's a disruptor on the floor.  A second later, Ayel jumps over and the disruptor's gone.  After Kirk cleverly dispatches Ayel, we see the disruptor again where Kirk dropped it to grab the ledge and not follow Ayel.  Anyone see something I missed?

[Villain]

Why are you desperately grasping straws to make the movie seem so bad? I don't quite understand...? It's a movie, there's bound to be small things forgotten. Did this really affect you in any way?

[blaXXer]

Here's a excerpt from, I believe the book, that explains the Enterprise looking so different.

The Constitution class was conceived by a team of designers led by Janice Newfield, a brilliant engineer and visionary. The project was at the conceptual stage in 2232 and was targeted to have working products in 10 years time. While working on improving the USS Kelvin's engines in 2233, the ship was attacked by an unknown Romulan ship. Janice was killed when a bulkhead near her was destroyed and she was sucked out into space.

When Janice died, the project was put on hold for a decade until a very bright engineering student (who, in the original timeline, many years later, oversaw the Constitution refit) named Tsi Sang helped restart the project submitting his own unique changes that were never included by the original designer, Janice Newfield (this is why the ship is more advanced looking in the movie). The project was restarted in 2244 under Sang's supervision.

The 17xx registry number set was held for the Constitution class, the prototype, the USS Constitution - 1700, tested in 2252 had many issues, while most were resolved a structural support issue could not be, so the ship was decommissioned in 2253. Sang resolved the structural issue and all the other issues and Starfleet decided to build the next Constitution (1701) on Earth where it could give the structure better gravity stress tests.

Starfleet was so impressed with this new ship that they made the first one (The Enterprise) the flagship and assigned veteran captain Chris Pike as it's commander. The Enterprise was so new in fact, that only few Starfleet personal were trained in her systems. Realizing this, Starfleet Academy started to train its students on these new systems in 2257, so by 2258 many of the older academy students could be a part of the Enterprise's crew.

According to Janice's logs it was always her intention for the first production Constitution to be named the Enterprise after the famous pre-Federation ship from the mid 22nd century. Starfleet did, respectfully, name the first production ship (1701), Enterprise even though Sang wanted the name to be The USS Yorktown.

Here's a excerpt from, I believe the book, that explains the Enterprise looking so different.

The Constitution class was conceived by a team of designers led by Janice Newfield, a brilliant engineer and visionary. The project was at the conceptual stage in 2232 and was targeted to have working products in 10 years time. While working on improving the USS Kelvin's engines in 2233, the ship was attacked by an unknown Romulan ship. Janice was killed when a bulkhead near her was destroyed and she was sucked out into space.

When Janice died, the project was put on hold for a decade until a very bright engineering student (who, in the original timeline, many years later, oversaw the Constitution refit) named Tsi Sang helped restart the project submitting his own unique changes that were never included by the original designer, Janice Newfield (this is why the ship is more advanced looking in the movie). The project was restarted in 2244 under Sang's supervision.

The 17xx registry number set was held for the Constitution class, the prototype, the USS Constitution - 1700, tested in 2252 had many issues, while most were resolved a structural support issue could not be, so the ship was decommissioned in 2253. Sang resolved the structural issue and all the other issues and Starfleet decided to build the next Constitution (1701) on Earth where it could give the structure better gravity stress tests.

Starfleet was so impressed with this new ship that they made the first one (The Enterprise) the flagship and assigned veteran captain Chris Pike as it's commander. The Enterprise was so new in fact, that only few Starfleet personal were trained in her systems. Realizing this, Starfleet Academy started to train its students on these new systems in 2257, so by 2258 many of the older academy students could be a part of the Enterprise's crew.

According to Janice's logs it was always her intention for the first production Constitution to be named the Enterprise after the famous pre-Federation ship from the mid 22nd century. Starfleet did, respectfully, name the first production ship (1701), Enterprise even though Sang wanted the name to be The USS Yorktown.

Nope, that's a direct quote from the TrekBBS, and it is, while nicely written, completely made up.

[Shadowknight1]

Why are you desperately grasping straws to make the movie seem so bad? I don't quite understand...? It's a movie, there's bound to be small things forgotten. Did this really affect you in any way?

Ummm...I'm not desperately grasping at straws to make the movie seem bad.  I loved the movie!  I just have fun doing that kind of thing, I do the same thing with Lord of the Rings. >.>

[FarShot]

Do we want to go back to size? lol
I ask because I found this cool interpretation of the deckage, designed by Robert Saint John at startrekmovie.com.

[Nebula]

prob is some of those decks will not line up with the windows and the docking ports....

cool pic non the less

[FarShot]

That depends on whose interpretation you are using because they haven't released any orthos.

[Kirk]

^That man boy brings up a good point.

[Johnnymuffintop]

That schematic is nice... but...
[rant]
I'd say there are no more than 4 decks in the saucer section, I always hated the half decks like the way the TOS connie's had on the outer rim. Also... I think those shuttles should be a TINY bit bigger.
[/rant]

[mckinneyc]

I had a light bulb moment last night about this movie.

I believe what we have here is a dumbing down of films to suit the audience. What do I mean by that? Well if you look at interviews with the writers about Star Trek and even the last Transformers film you'll notice they want to explain everything so not to confuse us or have us asking questions. Examples being about the reason there's no viewscreen in Trek or no female Autobots in the first Transformers film.

So it's partly our fault too. We live in a world where we want everything right now, handed to us on a plate and everything is explained so we can just sit and stare at the screen without thinking and too that end action adventure films are just a series of action sequences strung together with other stuff, like semi naked Orion girls, to keep us from thinking and asking questions.

It's by having the audience ask questions and seeking answers that draws us into the film, makes us get swept away and not realise we're sitting in a cinema. Seeking the answers to questions raised in our minds makes us want to see the film through to the end and sometimes we don't get the answers as Nicholas Myer once said, 'it's not my job to provide you with the answers.'

This has been an on going trend in Hollywood for quite some time now and Star Trek has somehow managed to stay immune because the people working on the film understood the fans have brains and like to fill in pieces of the puzzle themselves. Perhaps we should breathe a sigh of relief though as Star Wars fell victim too with Episode 3 being a perfect example.

I long for the day films are built around a good solid story and we're stopped being treated like idiots. Well that's my two cents.