Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC Modding => Topic started by: Villain on August 28, 2008, 09:54:08 AM
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I am thinkin' about a Tactical (/) Command ship. But not a Cruiser, or Frigate, or Carrier... Something -big-. I'm talking slightly smaller than the Excalibur. It's about time we had a ship around that size for massive field command, I think... While the Excalibur can serve many purposes, I dunno, I just don't see it as a command craft for some reason, even though I probably should. I've gone through a bunch of concept drawings, but it seems I'm only good at bizzaro TOS designs (Not because they're simple, they're just fun to toy with).
Now, the idea is that she'll be Slipstream capable, with a rather large focus on <<CANON: Generating Slipstream wake's large enough to support multiple craft (And to work as an early warning buoy much alike the Flyer did)>> She won't be self sufficient, mainly because a command craft that can do that may as well be the Enterprise. So, armed, of course, but not a powerhouse like the Excal (I'm not bashing it, believe me, I love that thing to bits). Maybe a port/starboard thru-deck on the secondary hull, with a compliment of whichever looks good, as I'm completely clueless to the post-Nemesis equivalent to the Killer Bee and/or Peregrine.
Quantum Torpedo compliment (I like the colours, and it makes sense that a command ship would carry recent technology, just not loads of it).. The technologies aren't set in stone yet, and I'm open to suggestions. The Slipstream attachments must be on the front and sides though, and I have some idea of where, once I figure out the hull. I don't want her to be too rounded, but not a triangle either, so I'm thinking a slightly similar outline as the Nova's primary hull, just not as smooth.
It will have two nacelles, without 50% line of sight to each other, but rather housing two coils each. I am assuming that the Excalibur would've used this too as it has the whole split-buzzard thing going on.
Other than that, I can't really think of much. So, suggestions?
I do have a question though. Anybody know how many decks the Excalibur had? I don't want to have a ship with an extra ten decks than the Excal even though it's smaller.
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Prime idea is good! Dalek will supply info. Dalek not sure what info, but Dalek will do this! Dalek does, but Dalek does not understand.
Dalek found site saying Excalibur has 50 decks, but Dalek does not know whether this is reliable source. But there you go.
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Give it 78 decks.
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Give it 78 decks.
BIG, not Skyscraper :lol:
Do skyscrapers make sense in space?
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I just know that aerodynamic designs do not.
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78? Thats mad. The place Dalek looked at said 50 decks on the Excalibur!
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While the Excalibur can serve many purposes, I dunno, I just don't see it as a command craft for some reason
really? its a carrier but in my mind that includes fleet command duties
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While the Excalibur can serve many purposes, I dunno, I just don't see it as a command craft for some reason
really? its a carrier but in my mind that includes fleet command duties
I think it's the fact that it's literally armed to the teeth. I always imagined a command craft to be reasonably armed, but still require the fleet around her. Still, I just like the idea of another giant ship mostly. :P
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sounds like u are planning to build a battleship. The through deck on the sec hull is a great idea to launch and recover support craft. My thoughts on the battleship would be that shes armed to the teeth but only has to resupply frequently similar to the ships of WWII
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Nah, Battleships are far too armed for this ones purpose. I was at one point thinking of an AWACs dome, like the Phoenix, but concluded it'd look autistic on a ship of it's size. Basically, if the Excalibur is the sword, this would be the shield. I think that sounds right...
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Your idea sounds a lot like a mobile Starbase, but smaller and without the ability to service other ships (just it's own fighters). Maybe something with a big and tall saucer, but a small secondary hull. Or even an eliptical saucer that works as primary and secondary hull. You can use the lower half as a full deck, while the upper half houses command end engineering.
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Shame that Arthur didn't give his shield a name isn't it?
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Your idea sounds a lot like a mobile Starbase, but smaller and without the ability to service other ships (just it's own fighters). Maybe something with a big and tall saucer, but a small secondary hull. Or even an eliptical saucer that works as primary and secondary hull. You can use the lower half as a full deck, while the upper half houses command end engineering.
An interesting idea. The basic guideline I came up with was that the secondary hull would merge very similar to the Excaliburs, but being a bit taller. I recall reading somewhere here some discussion about a ship having a bridge -and- a command deck, and that idea really grabbed me. Basically, the Bridge would still be in the top-center, and the command deck taking up the front-end of the secondary hull's reach, a deck or two below the Bridge. I do however, want it to follow the Sovvie and Excal feel (Merging both hulls into one, much alike a WWII ship.
This is pretty basic, but it's kinda the shape I was thinking for the primary hull. Secondary is much more placeholder-ish. The Nova-like cutaway is where the main Slipstream Arrays will go (already you should be able to see this would create a large wake). And the small indent on the forward-sides being something like a mould. The things on the top just looked cool for a little. Might see what I can do about them.
As for Arthurs shield.. Yeah. But I don't want this to just be noted as a "Oh, it's an attempt to be the new Excal", or "Prime's trying to get in on the Excals popularity.". I want it to be it's own ship, that would work amazingly well alongside the Excal, and even better in a fleet. I'm more frustrated that Aegis is taken. I'll just go looking through stuff.
EDIT: (Norn sounds too stupid.)
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That is a really really rough idea.
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Okay, sounds interesting, but what makes you think the Excalibur's well armed? Honestly, I've always seen her as being under-armed for a ship her size, she only has 5 phaser arrays and all of them are forward, port, and starboard facing, and three torpedo turrets. The Excalibur has almost no aft coverage and if you get right behind her and under the horizontal axis, you can pound away at the bottom of the ship until she finally gives...honestly, I think the Excalibur needs an overhaul HP wise.
As for name suggestion...the scabbard of Excalibur has been referred to on at least one occasion by the name Avalon, and the scabbard worked better than any shield. Remember, as long as Arthur had it, he could not be harmed in battle, but it was stolen and that's why he died in the fight against Mordred. So, Avalon.
Or alternatively, Caliburn, the Sword in the Stone.
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I think the Sovvie/Cent secondary hull would be right with some Akira on it that would look and work good.
And I think Avalon is a very good name.
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Okay, sounds interesting, but what makes you think the Excalibur's well armed? Honestly, I've always seen her as being under-armed for a ship her size, she only has 5 phaser arrays and all of them are forward, port, and starboard facing, and three torpedo turrets. The Excalibur has almost no aft coverage and if you get right behind her and under the horizontal axis, you can pound away at the bottom of the ship until she finally gives...honestly, I think the Excalibur needs an overhaul HP wise.
As for name suggestion...the scabbard of Excalibur has been referred to on at least one occasion by the name Avalon, and the scabbard worked better than any shield. Remember, as long as Arthur had it, he could not be harmed in battle, but it was stolen and that's why he died in the fight against Mordred. So, Avalon.
Or alternatively, Caliburn, the Sword in the Stone.
The Excal has those regenerating torpedo turrets. Hell, I've single-handedly taken out 2 cubes with her, albeit barely.
The names are both brilliant, so now I guess it's just a matter of choosing. Avalon would make for a hell of a name, but Caliburn would too...
I think the Sovvie/Cent secondary hull would be right with some Akira on it that would look and work good.
And I think Avalon is a very good name.
That actually sounds really cool. I'll play around and see what I can come up with!
Thanks for the suggestions guys.
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Well it all sounds good.
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Right how I would do this.
First off twice size of the Excalibur, do this big.. full phaser coverage all 360' forward and aft ventral/dorsal quantum torpedo launchers, ablative armor, heavy shields.
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I thought the whole idea was that this was smaller than the Excalibur?
I am thinkin' about a Tactical (/) Command ship. But not a Cruiser, or Frigate, or Carrier... Something -big-. I'm talking slightly smaller than the Excalibur.
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regarding aerodynamic designs in space: Shape doesn't really matter. The following design considerations are good reasons though:
Good warp field design.
Nebulas/atmospheric flight on occasion.
Low attack profile.
Smooth/curved better repels impacts, equipment less vulnerable.
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The Warp Field structure is perfectly sound. I'm trying to follow Roddenberry's rules. Because the ship's nacelles can't see each other at all, there's two coils per nacelle (Essentially 4 nacelles).
Atmospheric flight for a ship of this size would require an immense amount of energy, and if the shields were to give way, the ship would just fall to pieces.
As for the attack profile, I'm thinking with the advanced sensor array and the fact it's going to be in a fleet most of the time, I won't be worrying about this.
The ship will be somewhat curved, but not as rounded as the Excalibur is. I haven't done any work on her yet because I'm still trying to get it down right on paper.
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I suggest changing the name of this topic. One idea has developed into many more!
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There, how's that? Maybe a poll too, depends on if I can't decide on a name or not by the morning.
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Poll on names, hmm? Choices:
Caliburn
Avalon
Uh, I tink we need more names. And nothing like Pumpernickel.
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Nah, I quite like both the names, having more would just leave me more confused than I am.
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Just an idea, Pendragon?
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Nah, I quite like both the names, having more would just leave me more confused than I am.
How about both names.
And I like Avalon the best.
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Yeah! One of them would be the class of ship though (i'm guessing) so we still need to decide.
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I'd say Avalon Class USS Caliburn would be pretty cool.
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I'd say Avalon Class USS Caliburn would be pretty cool.
Yup! Change the name of the thread again!
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Soonish. I want to wait a bit and see that I'm actually gonna stick with it.
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If anything, I don't see the names being the other way round. Current name has more of a ring to it. Also, it goes alphabetically e.g. A-C. :D
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How about USS Cochrane for the second ship of the class? Naming it Cochrane would be a throwback to, for example, naming an American flagship USS George Washington.
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I think we trying to stick to Arthurian names here? Thats the general impression I got.
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Cochrane has been done if I recall.. I was actually thinking of modelling the Cochrane from TOS, it's a very different look, that's for sure. If the ship does get textured though, I'm sure blanks could be arranged. :D
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I'd say Avalon Class USS Caliburn would be pretty cool.
Calibur class USS Cervantes de Leon sounds better :P
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I'd say Avalon Class USS Caliburn would be pretty cool.
Calibur class USS Cervantes de Leon sounds better :P
Damn, why don't I just call it the USS Algol? :P Cervantes weilded the Edge though, never the Calibur.
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I think that only class names should be Arthurian. For the actual ships, certain important figures in the history of the galaxy (NOT restricted to the Federation) should be chosen as names.
Examples:
USS Zefram Cochrane (re-suggestion)
USS Jonathan Archer
USS Christopher Pike
USS Harry Morrow
USS Sarek
*Kirk has not been included because of his history as a rebel. I am sure that the Starfleet admiralty would not be willing to name a ship in the honor of a man who blatantly defied Starfleet regulations whenever it suited him; imagine the fit the Klingons would have if they did!
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Shame that Arthur didn't give his shield a name isn't it?
Not sure where I read it, but wasn't his shield's name Aegis? I think that's what he called it in Morte d'Arture, and we just finished that in AP English.
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I think it was mentioned earlier, but there is already a ship that has that name.
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Yeah, the USS Patriot I believe.
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I don't think giving a ship an actual persons name is a good idea. I would only go for names like that if you were getting desperate. Avalon and Caliburn sounds nice.
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I'd say Avalon Class USS Caliburn would be pretty cool.
Calibur class USS Cervantes de Leon sounds better :P
Damn, why don't I just call it the USS Algol? :P Cervantes weilded the Edge though, never the Calibur.
Ok, Ok. Then turn it into a god ship and call it USS Xianghua :lol:
Off-topics aside, Avalon sounds better. I can imagine a canon ship called USS Avalon.
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Perhaps the NX version will be the Avalon, and the first Production the Caliburn... I dunno, tough choice.
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Perhaps the NX version will be the Avalon, and the first Production the Caliburn... I dunno, tough choice.
Exactly what I was thinking.
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Avalon? Caliburn? Such pretty names.... :3
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I'd take the opportunity to work on something with the deflector in the saucer, like on the Enterprise J. I'm working on a little sketch atm.
Also, while we're talking about nacelles, I was thinking that a ship that only moves when it needs to doesn't require bussard collectors.
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I'd take the opportunity to work on something with the deflector in the saucer, like on the Enterprise J. I'm working on a little sketch atm.
Also, while we're talking about nacelles, I was thinking that a ship that only moves when it needs to doesn't require bussard collectors.
The ship needs to move with the fleet, and needs to be able to operate on it's own (For emergency missions, peace talks and the like)
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Hmm. Would love to see more of the Unnamed Class vessel, USS Anonymous.
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Yeah, I've been pretty slack with the modelling side. I still am yet to be content with what I have on paper (Sketches and planning)
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It needs to be BIG in order to fulfill its role as THE command platform of the UFP. Multiple warp cores. Three bridges, one deep within the ship. More deployable craft than God. Slow maneuvering, but powerful phaser coverage and a redundant shield system. Take it to the limit, in other words.
Also, give it 78 decks in order to counter that Star Trek V turbolift shaft numbering error.
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3 bridges? Wouldn't that just confuse the hell out of the crew? And why does a fleet coordinating ship need to be slower than a rocket and half the size of the moon? The defiant was one of the smaller vessels and Sisko commanded many fleet operations from her.
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Also, smaller command ships have a huge advatage over flying fortresses...they're harder to hit and can retreat into other ships' cover faster. Remember, if the command ship gets blown to pieces, the battleplan goes to hell in a hand basket. :wink:
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I disagree. First of all, this is not a simple FLEET command ship, but a FED command ship i.e. a mobile starbase for the Federation. I can understand 3 "bridges": an actual bridge used in combat and fleet movement, a Starfleet command center, and a Federation command center. Plus another for internal bay ops.
BTW, I finished my scetches. It has a massive internal bay.
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Well, you hit the mark. This ship WILL have three bridges. I've been going over the paper version, and with the amount of craft it will carry, it will require a third bridge for fighter/Smaller Craft Operations. The second will be the Fleet Operations deck, both of these are on the same level, a deck under the main bridge (Ship Operations). I've worked some Impulse Engines onto her, two (bigger than the Excalibur's) Grids segmented to react as 4 engines. While these are big and numerous, they require additional input beyond the recommended levels due to the mix-up in power distribution, an issue that is already being worked out.
In terms of other ships in the fleet (i.e: Not the Excalibur) She is big.
Anyway, I have an update! I worked on the secondary hull. Personally, I like the stumpiness of the primary hull on the underside. I dunno why, but.. Yeah. The weird design on the deflector is not permanent, I was just playing around with it.
C&C, pretty please. :D
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Yes! She's looking good and you've called her Avalon. Yay! Can't wait to see her warp engines!
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Thanks mate, I'm still unsure about the primary hull, I may rework it while retaining some of the original look. The Nacelles though.. I am still having a little trouble (Post-Nem designs seem to give me loads of trouble.) Especially as in order to keep with the rule that nacelles should share 50% line of sight, I'm giving it a Galaxy style two coils per actual Nacelle.
Also, I like the underside and compact-ness in those sketches, Farshot. Gives me a few ideas.
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How will this thing be scaled? Can you give us a comparison chart to, maybe, a Galaxy for reference?
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if it is placed with the back of it's secondary hull against a wall alongside the Excal (Where the Excal is pressed back with nacelles included) it just comes up to the front of the Excals bridge. It's a few decks shorter too, I'll do a render with the Excal to show.
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you have a pretty large wall.
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You know what they say about guys with large walls. ;D
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You're up...late?
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It's 5:50PM. :S I get Wednesdays to myself. Now if only this damn laptop could do 3d. >/
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Hmm. Ug. Can't wait to see more of the Avalon.
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I've hit a wall with the Nacelles, so I'm thinking I may just try revising other parts until I get an awesome and unique idea.
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How big is the wall?
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Really, really big. So big I'd have to sue the Dyson Sphere resource that was posted a while back.
Anyway, I'm trying to figure out Pylon and Nacelle placement. The nacelles are actually the Sacagawea's, so they aren't final. Personally, upright looks way off. Especially for a ship of this size. But hey, that's what experimenting is for.
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yeah, side ways would look better. And further out?
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Try consulting FarShot's concept sketches.
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yeah nacelles further out
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what about an akira/mithra design facing downward?
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what about an akira/mithra design facing downward?
YAY! My ship being used as a base for comparison on a regular basis! Squee! >_<
Pardon the excitement. >_>;; I'm getting over my cold now so... yeah. <3
Good work so far, Prime. :) I likes the design so far. Perhaps have the nacelles more parallel to the hull, as with the Excalibur... Or something.
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I'm thinking they should share that design theory, yeah. Makes sense for a craft this big. Though I'm tempted to give it Variable Geometry...
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Let's not go that far...who wants variable geometry on a 20 trillion ton command battleship?
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Yeah... I suppose it would be kinda overkill. I just want something to move or detach.. Maybe MVAM, or a secondary command module that can separate or something.
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How about MVAM that goes into full weapon mode! pulses, quantums, romulan disruptors, Green pulses, Easy peasy powerful phaser, Tricobalts, Maybe a launchable mini Excalibur. How about somE Little un-canon Phasers as well?
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You could do that with Ftech.
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Perhaps you could add a Galaxy-style detachable saucer for emergency separations.
Having two warp cores (hopefully), I could understand the addition of a controlled saucer separation system to minimize fatalities in the event of a warp core containment failure.
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I like the way the front of the ship looks, if this is gonna be a huge command craft, I'd add a shuttle bay to the bottom of the ship sorta like star destroyers got. So you can launch fighters from it/ shuttles and if the ships large enough, even smaller starships (Nova etc) Lol
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The Avalon is actually planned to have a thru-deck on the secondary hull (Well, 2 decks tall). Putting one on the underside limits space. Something a command vessel would want (Especially after all the technology stuffed in it.
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All this talk of Defiant clamps got me thinking about extras for the Avalon. So I had a play around on paper and came up with this. As I really don't like the old version of the actual USS Prime, I'm thinking I could redo it and put it to use with the Avalon somehow... Unfortunately I can't figure out how i want the hull to "End".
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Unfortunately I can't figure out how i want the hull to "End".
Fluidically [sp]. If this ship is future-tense, the primary hull ought to flow seamlessly into the secondary hull, and that into the pylons. Just something to think about.
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Yeh, not stuck together by glue and held up by sticks. Take the Excalibur, Supremus, Enterprise-F, Arcadia, Century and many others as examples!
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The problem is the ship lacks a secondary hull, there will be a small bulge where the Warp Core is, but that's about it. I could just have the back kind of end, but...
I dunno just yet. Actually, I think I have an idea.
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Well, stick on a secondary hull! The Defiant only just gets away with it! Cos its small and nippy. This is a big fat bastard that at least deserves a little better.
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This craft isn't that big, as it has to be able to hook onto the Avalon.
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...Yup.
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Mithra/Supremus/Excalibur-esque secondary hull? :P looks nifty.
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Kinda reminds me of a whale personally, which fits because.. Well..
Anyway, I'm stuck again because Nacelle design bites.
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Think big and bulky, with perhaps some extra supports and things like that. Maybe take a peak at the Excalibur nacelles and pylons.
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Was just looking at it actually. The problem is the Saucer is too large to have the typical Roddenberry design. So, hanging over or hanging under?
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I'd say under, personally... somehow the larger the ship, the lower the nacelles just makes sense in my head... don't ask why, I have no clue. In any case, I'm pretty sure we'll all like whatever you come up with. :]
And my post count is now my birth year... WOOHOO!
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How about inbuilt nacelles?
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Normally Limey, I'd call you a genius and cookie you on the hour every hour but... I dunno, it'd look tadpole'y.
I get what you mean Aeries, it does kinda just sound right. Though this is smaller than the Excal (Just barely. ;P)
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how about a ring around the saucer?
(http://shup.com/Shup/89674/108115194428-Avalon-Class-Fed-Command-craft-WIP-Some-kinda-update-612-Mozilla-Firefox.png)
or maybe not around the centre of the saucer but towards the back of it?
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Brings a new meaning to "Ringdrive" :lol:
I appreciate ll the suggestions guys. I think I may have one though, provided I can actually put t down onto paper. I'll demonstrate when I can get on a decent comp.
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Hi, guys. Just thought I'd announce I'm back. :D
Anyways, could you post a top view of that model?
And while you're at it, a front view?
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Welcome back!
Also, sure, I'll get 'em done when I get home.
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Alright, so here's a front and top shot.
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Did this in about 2 minutes... forgive the crudeness. Horrible, I know :D
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Did this in about 2 minutes... forgive the crudeness. Horrible, I know :D
The top veiw looks good. Not so sure about the front.
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Actually, that's given me exactly the idea I need. Shrink the space between the actual Nacelle and the Engineering on the front view, and she'd be perfect! Thanks mate! Now to come up with the design.
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the front view reminds me a bit of the older mithra design(s)
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Aeries did suggest that style too, seems it's the likely progression. :P
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Sometimes you just need time to let an idea simmer before it starts going somewhere. Something I've learned recently :funny
That's right, the USS Caliburn has been dusted off and I think I'm really enjoying where the design is going. The saucer is just the saucer from the old version, but I think the mockup on paper looks really good, so I'll get to that next. The nacelles are (clearly) borrowed, they were the only fully assembled nacelles I had lying around. I might have an idea for the Avalon Class nacelles, but one step at a time.
As you can see, she's been rolling around in shuttlebays and several of them have stuck on. To put the size in perspective, the side of the saucer is 8 (Sovereign) decks tall. The main shuttlebays are scaled to the Sovereigns, too, but the ones on the sides are somewhat larger. The bridge is two decks tall, topmost being the actual ship bridge, the second deck being fleet command.
(Yes, I know the cutaway disappeared, I didn't have time to re-render. :P)
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Nice. Only problem is that you can't say "Deck one, bridge" anymore. :P
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Instead, you'd say "Command Deck, Bridge." Sounds classier! ;)
In this case, it counts separate to the deck it is aligned with.
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I don't why but that blocky flatness gives it an almost SG feel to it i.e. practical with lack of flair. I like it. :)