Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC Modding => Topic started by: Chronocidal Guy on July 17, 2010, 01:31:18 AM
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I'm partly posting this so I have some continuous motivation to keep going to be honest.. I have so many versions of my Sovereign that change one little thing or another, that I figured it was time to start from scratch, and see what I can do if I'm not limited by the original model.
The original CG Sovereign is close to 10 years old now, at it's earliest form. It started as a mod for X-Wing Alliance, and was around 5k polys at that time. Since then, I've been revising it, but it has always held onto the original underlying structure I used way back then, and I think that limited how good it could get.
My most recent version topped out around 25k polys, after a buttload of chamfering and blending, and it looks awesome, but after finding the high res renders of the actual Nemesis CGI model recently, I thought maybe it was time for a new approach. :)
With a set of nice plans that are accurate finally in place, I can really go to town and lay out the model in a clean and smooth way I think. While the old model was originally built polygon by polygon in Rhinoceros, I'm making the most of Max9 this time.
The model so far is laid out entirely on the existing hull contour lines. I'm basically building it to where, if I wanted to, I could almost instantly just raise all the hull plates. I'm debating which surface details to add, and I might go a bit crazy after the main model is done, but I think I'm keeping the surface clean for now, except for a few things.
What this method will do though is make this thing a breeze to texture, even if it gets warped when unwrapping. Since all the natural panels will follow the mesh, it'll be easy to align things like windows, and keep the distortion to a minimum.
Anywho, I don't have much done yet, just the upper saucer surface. I modeled the escape pod areas into the saucer for now to see how it looks, but I'm thinking they will look too thick unless I actually build them into the saucer, and that's a lot more polygons than what I have now, since they're just sunk into the surface. I probably won't keep them in the end, but they look interesting for now.
Total so far is about 4k, or 2.5k without the escape pods.. so double that for the other half of the upper saucer.:)
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Its nice to see a legend back at it again. :D
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wooot this is looking good even at this early of a stage :D
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I actually think it looks really neat with the escape pods modeled in. You know what would be really interesting though? Saucer Separation. You can see the separation lines on the high detailed pics and using John Eave's original sketches you could make a battle bridge and everything. This isn't a request or anything though, I'm just throwing that out there. I'm sure what ever you do will be awesome :D
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um sorry Nihilus but the sep lines are not present on the Nem sov only on the FC Sov... The back spine connecting the Saucer and the engineering hull around the shuttle bay is completely solid now.
Though a saucer sep could exist... if you explain that away as hidden explosive bolts lol and they have protective plates over them now :P but lol that's to much speculation!
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Oh, definitely planning to at least model the yacht, possibly saucer sep as well. There actually is still a possible separation line there, it's just not as pronouced as before.
Main problem with the escape pods is how thick they have to be to make sure they don't glitch out and merge with the surface below them. BC has always been pretty good about managing that though.
The big thing is that I had to remove some finer detail like that before.. when you get details that thin, you get edges that only show up as a pixel or so thick, and unless your computer uses epic anti-aliasing, it looks worse than a plain texture.
I'll definitely save the pods, just dunno how they'll look in BC.
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um sorry Nihilus but the sep lines are not present on the Nem sov only on the FC Sov... The back spine connecting the Saucer and the engineering hull around the shuttle bay is completely solid now.
Actually, as CG said, there are some slight visible lines in the Nemesis Sovereign. You can really tell because there is a color variation between the Saucer and Secondary Hull.
As to the Pods, I suppose if it looks better to paint them then that works fine too.
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If you look at that section on the FC Sov it is completely different...
The Nem Sov has that area joined with the secondary hull while the FC sov didn't.
It may well still be able to sep somehow it just won't be as clean.
About pods... could always make both lol and release sep if they work. :P
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:dance CG is back!!!!! :yay:
All i can say is wow u have put alot of thought into this ill be deffinatly be watching this from start to finish have a dawg cookie
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"Sweet Jesus!"
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It's so perfect......almost makes me want to stop making mine. Just kidding, I might have to rebuild mine. I already have some distortion in the saucer.
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What have you been doing all the time? One must think you would forget about modding and wont come back after such a long period of time!
I remember all the rumors about a CG Sovereign 2.0, but oh well.
Have you taken a look at the JLS retexture? http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/JLS_Sovereign_Class;107427
or mine? :D
http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/CGSovereign_revamped;99809
We might inspire you to try some effects we used for the textures later.
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Nah, I'm just obsessive about my projects, and always wind up coming back to em after a while. :) I did hear about the JLS Sov, and was glad it used the new renders for reference, I just haven't played BC in a very long time. I work full time now, so games have taken a bit of a back seat to real life. But I still love making models. :D
By the way, the crazy changes I keep making to the 2.0 is why I'm starting over. It's just become a mess of add-ons to the model. I may put out that model at some point for folks to use, but it's just bloated with polys at this point, and still needs to be mapped anyway. If anything, this model will be the 3.0. :funny
Part of the reason I built the saucer the way I did was to keep the distortion down.. it gets really easy to bend things around while making the layers line up.
What I did was draw the saucer entirely flat first. Then I just dragged rings of vertices up and down to match the side schematic, so all the major divisions stayed level. Oh, and one trick I use a lot... if I do need something level, and it isn't quite, I just select the vertices and scale them all to zero in the Z direction. :)
One method I did find helpful though.. I didn't build the saucer as an ellipse at all. The saucer really has no center point, and the focal point of the ellipse can change depending on which area you look at. Safest method I found was to align the "spokes" of the saucer structure with the windows. Assuming they're all vertically aligned in the rooms, those are your best reference for the true curvature of the saucer.
Another thing I've been doing with this is using the "facets" shaded view a lot. It'll let you tweak how the polygons blend without any smoothing visible, so you can really see what causes distortion in the shape.
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Off topic.. but one quick thing. I tend to type a lot... and the board is NOT liking my post length. Once I get to a certain point, the message box scrolling goes wonky, and I can't see what I'm typing, because the scroll bar starts having whiplash or something...
Is there some known way to fix that? My first post and previous one were both too long for the forum, I had to type them in notepad and paste the text in. :P
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*off topic*
huh I just copied your post in and the box looks fine and nothing odd happened when I typed extra stuff.
what browser you using?
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IE8, which could be the problem I suppose. It's not a huge issue, maybe the board just thinks I need to stop typing such long messages. :idk:
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It's awesome to see you back CG. I really look forward to seeing this beautiful ship come to life at your hands (and I feel the same way about Wiley's, 'cause he's real good too!)
I would recommend you download & install Firefox. It's much more streamlined than IE8... and less buggy.
Cookie for your work so far ;)
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It would be super neat to see side-by-side renders of this and the v1.0. Basing it on orthos of the CGI model is about as accurate as one can get. :)
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I second that. I'd also like to see how awesome the aborted 2.0 looks now!
I'm sure a render or two would elicit several "ooh!"s and perhaps even some "ahhh!"s.
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Hehe.. well, I might take a few elements straight out of the 2.0 if they fit, like the bridge and deflector. I really liked the way I got the pylons shaped finally too, so I'll try to make the new ones just like them.
And I should say, I might not "abandon" it entirely. It's more of a mid-way point between the 1.0 and this new model. I plan to incorporate a lot of the features of this model in the new one, at a lower polycount.
The biggest change going on this time is going to be texture usage I think. I plan on making the entire thing mirrored, with a few patches of different windows here and there. That'll let me put the entire saucer on one map, the hull on another, and maybe the bridge and nacelles on a third, with a fourth for the registries.
I'm planning on either tracing the CGI renders for the new textures, or just cutting them up and pasting them directly on the model to save time. They should fit perfectly, it'll just be a matter of mapping the hull correctly so details don't get stretched out.
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Good lord. I was always completely happy with your Sovereign, but this just looks amazing. Cookie for you as soon as I am able. :bow:
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Pasting the reference pics directly to the ship piece by piece sure would establish authenticity lol. Right now she looks astounding.
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Since noone stepped up to the mark:
[size=20]OOH![/size]
Alright BCcentral... the ball's in your court now :p
That's friggin' gorgeous. I'm very drawn to those nacelles, particularly the bussard housings!
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So... We could have two NEW Sovereigns in the future? WC Sov and CG Sov 3 side by side? I sense a family photo coming on!
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Well, after the work I've been doing, I might be better off finishing this model as a high detail one, and tweaking the old 2.0 to match it better... I've already hit 10k polys on just the upper saucer and bridge : :banghead:
I can still revise it later of course, but the way I'm making this thing, it's gonna go really high in detail. I dunno how much people want to tolerate in polycount for details like the escape pods, but those don't even add that much.
Anywho, here's the progress on the new model. If this gets too high to be reasonable, I'll go tweak my 2.0 to match it, and work on that instead I think.
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I would love to have a high poly Sovy. Alot of the work i'm doing in BC is to make a fan comic, but i also may ues Max or Daz for control, combat and glamor shots.I don't want to use thous insaine one's on sci fi mesh, but if you get one out, i'm all for it. And your idea about using the studio render for the textures, would be sweet.
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A whole lot of people use your Sov for renders in Max and such. I wouldn't be too worried about the poly count. Those people would probably appreciate it.
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FarShot is right. I've used your model as well for rendering, since I don't pilot much these days.
Those Sovvie engines must be a pain in the ass to make. At least they were for me, and I still didn't get them quite right.
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I wouldn't mind having a high poly model, i've actually had ones over 100,000 polies in game before with no problems. Looking forward to seeing more.
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well CG i wouldnt worry too much about keeping the polycount down we have some ships that are like 30-40K such as lints klingon and Dom BB ships and a certain excelsior class but i forgot who did that one and with GPUs getting cheaper most likely just about everyone can handle another high poly ship
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Don't even worry about the 2.0. Finish this one as perfectly as you want... high polys and all.
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Wow, amazing. This is going to be the next gen sovereign. I would really like to see separating sovereign in 4 parts: Saucer, Stardrive, Capitan's Yacht and Escape pods. :yay:
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i've actually had ones over 100,000 polies in game before with no problems.
high polys and all.
well CG i wouldnt worry too much about keeping the polycount down we have some ships that are like 30-40K such as lints klingon and Dom BB ships and a certain excelsior class but i forgot who did that one and with GPUs getting cheaper most likely just about everyone can handle another high poly ship
Lint's ships had damaging issues, unfortunately he never did fix that... alot of the time, very high poly ships do...
also guys - not everyone does have a great computer to handle ultra-high poly ships... while years ago, 20k polies was considered "high" and nowadays moreso "normal", it doesnt mean to go crazy with the count lol
also, keep in mind alot of people like to play fleet battles and many high poly ships at once does bring the gameplay to a slideshow...
granted, the texture sizes to have alot to do with gameplay also; but i think the trick is to keep everything as low as possible, while making it look awesome at the same time...
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From another topic:
because BC's engine doesn't render shadows and does a poor job of lighting in general. Adding more modeled details on such a small scale will only serve to make these issues more noticeable. In a better engine I'd say go for it, but not in Bridge Commander.
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I don't have a problem with high poly models. And as the Sovereign is my favorite ship I say go for it :D. If the pods take up a lot of space, you can just texture them. I mean there are more pods to add to the bottom of the saucer and part of the Stardrive. Seems like they'd add up after a while.
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Well the biggest issue is like I said, unless you have uber crazy antialiasing on, those little raised pods will only add nasty jaggies around their edges at anything but extremely close range. I could add them only to a close-up LOD, but I'll have to see. My only real motivation in modeling them was that I could assign them all a tiny relatively high-res texture, and make it so you can actually see the markings on them up close. :) They aren't that polygon intensive really, only 16 triangles a piece, but those add up fast, and the model's already going towards 30k+ easy.
The issue I see right now is that my current 2.0 mesh is already 25k. If computers can handle that these days, I might stick with that, and then release the other as a mid-range model for rendering.
What I have started doing is seriously re-working the 2.0 mesh as well to make it line up with the rendered schematics. That'll let me keep the original mesh structure, which is really a rather sparse mesh spruced up with lots of chamfers around the edges. Once I re-arrange the saucer correctly, I'll show you a comparison of the wireframes, and it should make it clear why I think this new approach I was considering might be way too detailed for BC.
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Just as an FYI, the combat sim Black Shark has an apache model that is over 36K poly. So I think you're ok.
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lol. Honestly, I'm right at home in high-poly land.. MS Flight Sim X can handle 100k+ easily, and I've built stuff in the 50k-75k range for earlier flight sims.
Flight sims though, on the whole, are a bad representation of how detailed a model you can deal with, unless you're talking about fast-action large scale dogfight sims. Sims that focus on a single plane for the majority of the simulation aren't going to break a sweat with a 100k model, just because compared to all that ground scenery, the plane itself is a drop in the bucket.
Stuff like BC runs high detail stuff fine, as long as you're content to leave the camera in fly-by mode, and watch the game like a screensaver. But get into serious combat, and all those polygons will seriously bog down the game when they get damaged.
My preliminary target for a usable BC model is around 20k. I'm holding off on the uber detail model at the moment, and working over the 2.0 model into a sort of 2.5. :funny I've rebuilt a ton of the original structure, and resized a good number of things to match the CGI model, and it's just about spot on now. I'll post some renders up tomorrow.
The majority of the model is done, I just need to tweak or rebuild the nacelles to be accurate to the renders. All told, the main mesh is around 11k, which includes the saucer, hull, and pylons. The nacelles should be a few thousand each, and then I'll tack on the little detailed bits like the phasers and the yacht (which is already done btw, I built it long ago).
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I definitely look forward to seeing what you have done CG. I have a feeling it's going to be awesome.
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Lint's ships run fine on my mum's 1.5ghz cpu, intel integrated GPU, built in 2004 pos.
But that's because BC gargles polies like some kind of giant poly gargling Star Trek-based flight-sim computer program. Lint's textures are like 1px X 1px (citation needed), so the game chomps down those models no problem.
A similar polycount model with a 2048x2048 texture is a different story.
And, as CG said, the damaging causes slowdown the higher the damage resolution and poly count are.
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Well, I'm slowly rebuilding bits of the old 2.0 model, and I think it's finally the correct proportions after all these years. :D
I still have to redo the nacelle mounts, which are a geometric pain, but the majority of the model is done, and I bumped up the detail a little more to boot.
When I finally add in the yacht, and other details, I'm expecting it to hit around 30k polygons now, although I hope I can get it to 25 by refining some bits.
Anywho, here's those renders I promised.
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Looks excellent, CG. The front ends of the nacelles really bring out the ship's details.
So are these latest pictures the 2.0, right?
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Kind of, more like 2.1 actually.. I've had the 2.0 sitting for a while, and finally went back and resized and shaped it to match the renders of the Nemesis CGI model.
I was going to rebuild it from scratch, but then I realized how many more faces that new saucer on the first page has, and knew I'd be heading toward 100k at that rate. Might still finish it someday, but this version's much more suited to BC.
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That thing is HOT. :dance
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Now that's hot right there. Didn't you say you were also working on the Yacht? When do we get to see that too? :D
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Next thing you know, Nanobyte's gonna drop in and quietly release the full NanoFX 2.0!
This is great! Needless to say, but fanastic modelling work!
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How did you build that so fast? After looking at your latest pictures, I think I am going to rebuild mine.
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CG...is this gonna be a unified mesh...similar to the way DJ does his models?? as in only need like 4 or 5 textures? or is it gonna use a similar amount of textures to the original CGSov??
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She?s a beauty!
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How did you build that so fast? After looking at your latest pictures, I think I am going to rebuild mine.
Wiley, I believe that CG mentioned that this is basically the 2.0 with a lot of reworking. So, for all intents and purposes, it was already built just a lot of tweaking... don't quote me on this though :P
Outstanding work CG, with the caliber of quality that you and Wiley have and both of you building different Sovs right now, man, it doesn't get any better than this!
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Yep, this is just the 2.0 mesh reworked to match the renders. I've put the really high detail one on hold for now, and focused on finishing this version up.
As for the number of textures, I'm not sure yet. My current plan is one texture for the saucer with mirroring (half upper/half lower will fit on one map), one for the main hull, and one for the nacelles and bridge. Toss in the registry map, and you get 4 main textures, down from six on the original (upper and lower saucer, bridge, nacelles, hull, and registry).
Now, there are several advantages to including a few smaller textures though, if that's what you're referring to. The deflector and such will all be integrated this time, but I'm planning on keeping at least one small texture separate. The only reason for this is so I can tile the texture easily for things like the phaser strips.
And oh, by the way.. by yacht, did you mean this thing? :D
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Sweeet :dance
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Slick! :D
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Agreed :)
And CG You've got a PM :P
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OMG, CG, forget a cookie, have a whole god damn biscuit factory
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Yep, this is just the 2.0 mesh reworked to match the renders. I've put the really high detail one on hold for now, and focused on finishing this version up.
Since you want to dust off the 2.0 and make that one an eventual release, perhaps your 3.0 could be the saucer separation version? I mean if you're going to save her for future toying and make it a high poly model, why not go out with a bang? Just an idea, (I'm an idea man lol).
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Meh.. I'm personally not sold on the saucer sep I think... at the moment, I can't think of a good way to incorporate a spare impulse drive for the secondary hull. Regardless though, this one's gonna have the yacht included. :)
So, I think this is gonna be close to the final form for the 2.1 model, I've just got a few little tweaks to perform, and I can probably clear up a few polygons, but I like the level of detail as it is. I probably went a little overboard on the nacelles, but I think it was worth it.
Grand total is 27k, which I'm surprised at actually.. I expected my tweaks to rebuild the structure would add a lot more than 2k polys to the 2.0 model.
Y'all ready for a couple renders? :D
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SWEET JESUS !!! :bow: :bow: :bow: cookies cookies !
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Very nice! I think I see what you're talking about with the tweaks (I think I see a ring of 2-point polys around the bridge area, and an awkward vert on the right impulse, but it could just be my crummy screen) But I don't think anyone would ever say no to a revision of your already outstanding work, sir. Have a cookie. :)
(Oh right, not at 50 posts yet, but you'll get my first! Alien Swarm time now!)
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Meh.. I'm personally not sold on the saucer sep I think... at the moment, I can't think of a good way to incorporate a spare impulse drive for the secondary hull.
I can see a spot... It's supposed to extend outwards on the dorsal hull... right by the saucer separation plane. The front side of it has a phaser bank.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/serverandenforcer/SecondImpulse.png)
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In a very excited George Takei voice... "OOOH MY!"
She looks absolutely fantastic. Can't wait to see her textured :D
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:bow: damn them nacells do look omg good even untextured. really keep that poly count up our 8800gt with 512 meg ram can handle her in this day n age np.
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It's on the model Serv.
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Freakin' nice... what more can I say.
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Wow, that is just beautiful.
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very, very nice. great to see the level of ships around continually on the up.
Makes us mere mortals bow down and offer the sacrifice of cookes.
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You know, every time I sit down to work on this thing, I get the distinct image of John Eaves watching me over my shoulder and laughing as I try to duplicate his work. :funny
Seriously, this ship is so geometrically unwieldly, I half think he designed it as a giant "You think you're good? make this, I dare you!" to all the people who obsess over accurate models of ST ships.
Main reason I think this? The saucer structure is not level. Even though you see concentric ovals from the top in the panel details, that doesn't mean that parallel lines are at the same vertical height. The back half of the saucer actually slopes downward a lot more than the front.
And let's not even go into the freaky flat/curved shape of the pylons to make them bend to match the hull.. this ship is a detail freak's nightmare.
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Well, a designer has a lot more freedom than a duplicator. As you duplicate, you unwittingly think, "Okay, this needs to be level... this bends at 37 degrees... this is 17.831 meters long..." Designers just do something and say, "Hey, this looks pretty awesome. I'll stick with it." :P That's why I love sketching. Producing from a sketch is another story entirely.
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Well, a designer has a lot more freedom than a duplicator. As you duplicate, you unwittingly think, "Okay, this needs to be level... this bends at 37 degrees... this is 17.831 meters long..." Designers just do something and say, "Hey, this looks pretty awesome. I'll stick with it." :P That's why I love sketching. Producing from a sketch is another story entirely.
Good answer. +1
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Heheh how's this for quick work? Well, fake quick work :funny
I just mapped the entire model with the topside render image. Little wonky around the nacelles, but not a bad fit.
If I actually take my time, and cut up the renders carefully to build the actual textures, it should be seamless. :D
As a side note... those renders are NOT orthogonal. They have a very long focal point, but there are definitely a few small differences between the top and bottom views, and a few rather large ones between front and back. They don't quite line up like they would if they were true projections, but they're close enough that the differences aren't important.
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Heheh how's this for quick work? Well, fake quick work :funny
I just mapped the entire model with the topside render image. Little wonky around the nacelles, but not a bad fit.
If I actually take my time, and cut up the renders carefully to build the actual textures, it should be seamless. :D
As a side note... those renders are NOT orthogonal. They have a very long focal point, but there are definitely a few small differences between the top and bottom views, and a few rather large ones between front and back. They don't quite line up like they would if they were true projections, but they're close enough that the differences aren't important.
The Saucer looks pretty good, but I see what you mean about the Nacelles. Still, this gives you a really good idea of how she'll look when completed. Me likey a lot :yay:
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Somehow I really like those deep dark red bussards.
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I too like the deep dark red, maybe have that be how it looks powered down or something.
Anyway just out of curiosity, do you do anything other then the Sov? Not that I'm complaining about it, if I didn't know any better, I'd say the 1.0 model was just you taking the original and putting it under that machine from Tron or something.
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Actually... I think the Sov 1.0 was the only thing I ever officially released. I worked on a few other projects, but nothing got completed to any release-worthy extent.
I do recall having an X-Wing that was close to being release-able, but I think it might've gotten lost somewhere.
Only other model I ever got close to finishing was my Romulan Warbird, but that was around the time I got buried in college.
Problem is I love building models, but I tend to run out of steam when I get to texturing. I just don't enjoy it nearly as much, and get distracted by other things too easily.
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Problem is I love building models, but I tend to run out of steam when I get to texturing. I just don't enjoy it nearly as much, and get distracted by other things too easily.
That's exactly my problem. It seems that texturing is just a big pain in the butt, not allowing for the small parts that are actually FUN to texture.
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This makes me want to actually play BC again--that's a very high praise ;)
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Actually... I think the Sov 1.0 was the only thing I ever officially released. I worked on a few other projects, but nothing got completed to any release-worthy extent.
You're forgetting the Nemesis Sovereign back when your username was Hawkeye :P
The same model I've been working on retexturing and adding a few polies here and there...(Underside of the saucer to be specific)
Also the "textures" Look awesome CG :)
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Actually... I think the Sov 1.0 was the only thing I ever officially released. I worked on a few other projects, but nothing got completed to any release-worthy extent.
I do recall having an X-Wing that was close to being release-able, but I think it might've gotten lost somewhere.
Only other model I ever got close to finishing was my Romulan Warbird, but that was around the time I got buried in college.
Problem is I love building models, but I tend to run out of steam when I get to texturing. I just don't enjoy it nearly as much, and get distracted by other things too easily.
"Looks like the Sovereign..."
*uses sunglasses*
"...was a cut above the rest."
YEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
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Nah, I don't count the Nemesis Sov, it was basically a beta for the CG Sov.. kinda like a version 0.5 :funny Same base model, just reworked a whole bunch.
I wish I could churn out new designs like DJ and others do though.. I might have to just tackle an original design at some point and see what it's like. Pretty much everything I've done in terms of mods has been replicating someone else's design.. maybe it's time for a CG original. :D
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Nah, I don't count the Nemesis Sov, it was basically a beta for the CG Sov.. kinda like a version 0.5 :funny Same base model, just reworked a whole bunch.
I wish I could churn out new designs like DJ and others do though.. I might have to just tackle an original design at some point and see what it's like. Pretty much everything I've done in terms of mods has been replicating someone else's design.. maybe it's time for a CG original. :D
I would recommend taking a look at some of John Eaves designs he has on his Blog. A lot of them are concepts that never went anywhere but man can that guy draw. I would love to see more of his stuff in game. Like these for example. Of course, this isn't a request, just ideas I'm throwing out there.
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THe bottom one would bea super cool design for a ship, but i think the main supports for the main bridge after seperation would be week and easy to blow it to hell.
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Nah, I don't count the Nemesis Sov, it was basically a beta for the CG Sov.. kinda like a version 0.5 :funny Same base model, just reworked a whole bunch.
LMAO Beta eh? :) Good thing that turned out alright :P
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THe bottom one would bea super cool design for a ship, but i think the main supports for the main bridge after seperation would be week and easy to blow it to hell.
tell that to the vulcans
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I was looking at your first construction renders for your new Sovereign. How did you build each component (saucer, engineering hull, nacelles)? I can see that you used the symmetry/mirror modifier. I'm trying to figure out how to build mine better.
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Pfft... structural limitations mean nothing as long as you have logic! :P
As for how I built the Sov... well, the original was a mish-mosh built up in Rhino and edited with Max3, so I don't even remember the process... it was long and ugly, I know that much.
For building in Max (especially for something like the Sovereign) I'd recommend using splines to build a rough framework. I've never liked building things out of primitives and refining them, and if you have reference drawings to trace over, splines can be your best friend.
I generally don't use actual curved lines unless I have to, so I stick to splines with the interpolation set to zero. That way, each segment you draw will become the edge of a polygon (eventually).
For that high detail model, I started out by tracing over the top view, laying flat splines over the major hull contours. Max can make them not flat, but that's pretty easy to fix, just go into point edit mode, select all the points, and scale the z-axis to zero, making sure that you use the selection center to scale around. (Gah! freaking site is wigging out again.. this'll be a two part post).
At the moment I'm taking a quick breather from the Sov, and getting an idea out of my head while it lasts. :hithead: I'm resisting the urge to call it the Sovtrepid, but it's loosely based on an early sketch I remember seeing of the Sovereign. The initial drawings had the nacelles swept forward, so I figured I'd take that idea and run with it as far as I can.
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Thanks for the info! That Sovereign-Intrepid variant looks nice. I'm not quite sure about the pylons, as long as you do not make it look like the Sovereign-turkey version. :)
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Nice. I really like it, though I'm with Wiley on the pylons. I think the rear tips would look better with a smaller angle. That being said, the impulse engines and connection between the saucer and engineering hulls is kickin.
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Heheh.. oh, this thing's only just begun, so it'll be all sorts of changed before it's done. I see what you mean about the pylons, I might rework those, but the stretched connection ties into the nacelle design I have in mind, so I'll see how it looks with those before making any major changes.
Anyway, to continue... once you get the top view of a part kind of laid out the way you want it, you need to add depth, so I switch between the side and perspective views (sometimes front/back) and drag the points of the splines into their vertical position.
The key is to make the splines line up with the ship's contours in two views (or more if you can do it). Once you do that, you can get a rough outline of the ship's major contours.
Once you have the major lines traced, you basically have to connect the dots so that they're connected by enclosed triangles or rectangles (while you can draw 4+ sided polygons in max, surface modifiers need quads or triangles). Once that's done, you can apply a surface modifier, and it'll convert the splines into a mesh. Be careful here though, and make sure you use a very small weld radius, and set the "step" option to zero, unless you want all of your edges automatically divided, which will basically subdivide all the rectangles and triangles you've outlined.
That mesh I posted the pic of above was roughly built all in splines, and then I added the surface modifier to start adding detailed sections.
As for the parts breakdown.. actually, aside from the nacelles and bridge, and other assorted tiny details, I have the entire saucer/hull/pylons of the Sovereign as a single mesh. I'm really picky about smoothing and sharp edges, so often I'll go through the model and weld or break individual vertices to get the right look to the surface. The Sov is one helluva complex shape, and has lots of relatively sharp edges that blend into curves, and I kept most of it one mesh so I could smooth the joints between parts better.
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I love the way you explain yourself. I can't put my finger on it, but it takes me way back, to the Klingon Academy days. Wierd.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out, as I'm sure you've noticed, that John Eaves' sketches usually take a bit of a slim-fast diet between final sketch and final CG model. He draws stuff ever-so-slightly chubby. Relevant only if you decide to take up Nihilus' suggestion.
Also, a word of warning for the general population: Don't read Eaves's less trechnical posts, the man's personality irritates the snot out of me. That, and he can't type for doo-doo.
Love his ships, can't abide his personality. I suppose it's a personal thing.
That first one Nihilus posted, the "Smaller, Versatile Attack Vessel" looks vaguely like a DJ design aesthetic...
The Sovtrepid is looking very interesting. For someone tentatively stepping into original modelling, it's a very assured beginning.
The nacelles will render judgement on the pylons in their current config.
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Interesting. Judging by the Nacelle Pylons you're going for this look? I do like where you're going with that.
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Can anyone show me a drawing of this fabled turkeyprise? I keep hearing about it, years apart, and am curious.
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That was the sketch I remembered all right, but I'm not planning on copy it any more than I have. That one's pylons never sat well with me, and I prefer the stationary pylons to moving ones.
Topside is mostly done on the main hull, moving to the underside. I think I might throw in a reverse saucer separation on this one, but not sure how it will look... By reverse, I mean drop off the bottom, rather than lift off the top, but that will mean a little rearrangement of which components go where. :D
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Seeing CG, Wiley, and DJ post in a row was like seeing the Pope walk by... :bow:
Yay, a CG original! Fly with it, fly!
Also, I must say I like John Eaves' sketches better than the models produced out of them. Seeing sketches of his Sov designs... those sketches have much more curves that flow and bend than the actual models do. The Nemesis CGI model definitely took it more in the direction of his sketches. Just adding the curves aft of the main shuttlebay improved it about 10% in my opinion. It's a shame that concept artists can't sit behind the model builders and direct things. I'm sure the FC Sovereign would have been much cooler then. Of course, if a physical model of the Nemesis Sovereign was used more, I'd probably love that the most.
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Seeing CG, Wiley, and DJ post in a row was like seeing the Pope walk by... :bow:
Yay, a CG original! Fly with it, fly!
Also, I must say I like John Eaves' sketches better than the models produced out of them. Seeing sketches of his Sov designs... those sketches have much more curves that flow and bend than the actual models do. The Nemesis CGI model definitely took it more in the direction of his sketches. Just adding the curves aft of the main shuttlebay improved it about 10% in my opinion. It's a shame that concept artists can't sit behind the model builders and direct things. I'm sure the FC Sovereign would have been much cooler then. Of course, if a physical model of the Nemesis Sovereign was used more, I'd probably love that the most.
Maybe that's why there are so many awesome ships being developed by the Community. I look forward to seeing the Texture work the Sovereign and this beauty side by side.
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I like it, what we need are a group of Sovie inspired designs, look how many of the Galaxy we have both cannon and fan made.
I like the nacelle pylons you have at the minute but what will be important is the nacelles, you need to get the look and balance right for the pylons to work.
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Can anyone show me a drawing of this fabled turkeyprise? I keep hearing about it, years apart, and am curious.
Nihilus's post is the turkey-prise. The head is cut off, the nacelles with the pylons are the wings, use your imagination. Eave's earlier version a nice design, but it looks like a turkey.
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I guess I'm the only one who actually likes that design, even after being referred to as a "turkey".
By the way CG, your new Sovvie is great looking.
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You're not the only one. Only thing I would change are the thickness of the nacelle pylons, and it seems CG has already done that. There's not a single one of John Eaves' sketches that I don't like. :D
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I dunno, I seem to recall a rather portly concept design for the holoship in Insurrection that defied any name but U.S.S. Guppy. :P
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Couldn't find that but I did find this bubble ship. However the two super awesome sketches attached negate the bubble ship's bubbly-ness. :P
(http://johneaves.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/ship.jpg)
I'm pretty sure it's a separate ship because it has two seats in it.
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Nah, that's a bubble turret. Wow, so the Scorpion fighter was originally going to be bigger?
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yeah, according to Eaves, they had to cut the wings off so it would believably fit in the Scimitar's corridors
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I dunno, I seem to recall a rather portly concept design for the holoship in Insurrection that defied any name but U.S.S. Guppy. :P
Do you mean this little guy? I rather like this one lol. John Eaves refers to it as the "Pufferfish" lol.
You know, looking through all of John Eaves' photos and sketches, It would be really easy to dedicate a thread to him and see who would like to make some of his ships that never make it to a screen. He has some pretty sweet concepts for some Enterprise Era designs that never made it.
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umm that not a bubble ship... that's just a close up of the little turrets at the rear of the two ship sketches.
take a close look at the rear of them both.
EDIT: whoa lots o posts.
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I still think he drew it as a separate ship. I think he was experimenting and said "what if I just take that bubble and work with that?"
Reason I say that is because those two things up front. They look like seats to me. If they were handles, then the scale would look like this if not smaller:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zu-DKjmLnoA/RtC5Zq3voGI/AAAAAAAABCY/1d0-pIvpEuI/s400/ball%2Bturret%2Bgunner%2Bfour.jpg)
I attached my interpretation of people inside.
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yeah well all I see are two joystick handles where you drew those two stick figures.
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guys - please try and remain ontopic
thx :)
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Wow CG I can't believe how this baby Is coming along, the addition of those nacelle details are extraordinary. I don't think I would go as far as USS Sovereign and start playing BC again XD, but I would definitely do a lot more rendering than I have since this year started. And the way you speak on here Is like you're giving lessons In modeling and I think It's awesome LOL, I would totally love to see that high-res 3.0 model released just to render with It. Please keep up this outstanding work *gives cookie* and I can't wait to see this ship on BCFiles as file of the week, because we all know that week will turn into a month and that month will turn into months and so on.
And good to see you back on here, It's been too long.
-Meteorafallen
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Ok, changed the topic title to reflect the fact that this isn't just about the Sov anymore.
Had some fun with my new design, and I'm liking where it's going. :D
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heh I spot a Split Deflector! :D
oh and yea the rest is awesome!1!!!!
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I like it. Especially the nacelles. Oh yeah, and the deflector, too. ;)
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Mmm, mmm, mmm
[smacks lips]
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love it very much
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OH. WOW. :drool:
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Now that's just wicked cool. I love where this is going. I especially like the design that connects the Impulse engines around the Bridge area.
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*blinks twice* Wow. That is one gorgeous ship CG. *adds it to my "download this as soon as it comes out" list*
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CG: On his way to more cookies than posts...
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Outstanding!
But the saucer is a bit too Sovereign like, and the deflector - as nice as it is - needs to be something more unique IMO. DJ's done the split look and it's real cool, but I think this ships deflector needs a more "individual" look... for lack of a better descriptive word.
Cookie.
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Well, it is kind of a sov derivative in most ways, but yeah, I'm still not sure about the saucer layout just yet. I'm not changing the major details, but I might change the outer edge design, maybe stretch it forward a bit.
The deflector I dunno if I like yet, but with how long I've been gone, I'm catching up to years of other people's ideas. Everything I'm coming up with has probably been done before in one way or another. :funny
I might try a few shapes, but I'm kind of stuck into the space it has right now. Don't wanna redo the hull shape, I like it the way it is, even if it is very sov-like.
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keep the double deflector :P
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keep the double deflector :P
agreed, it's so bright, so vivid.
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Hehe.. well, I had an idea, did a quick test texture for a single deflector again. I'll use the same pattern when I resplit it, but now I'm torn... I like how this one looks too.
Remember, no matter how bright that one looked, it wasn't textured yet. Textures on a deflector make all the difference, I think.
I'll post some more later probably, need to build the bridge up still, and I'm gonna have to reduce the model a bit I think, or start working on a low detail version before I get too carried away. This one's already hitting close to 14k, and I don't even have the hull done, let alone details like phasers. I'll probably cut a bit out of the chamfered areas, and keep this as a close-up model for the highest level of detail.
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Aww, it's happy to see me!
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Aww, it's happy to see me!
Exactly. I was typing up a reply before you responded. What I wanted to say was that I like the style, but the shape could use some improvement. I would round the top more so it looks a bit more like an O than a D. Just a bit though. The Intrepid deflector is a good example of the shape I mean.
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I fancy it the way it is. It's unique.
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I'm reminded of happy plane (http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/happy-plane-pic.jpg).
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I'd forgotten all about happy plane! Good times...
Ok, the Happyprise has been remodeled to have the split one again, just to compare.
Colors and such are nowhere near final, I might actually go with a sort of gold/yellowish like the Sovereign. But I like blue ones better. :)
In other news, the nacelles are closed up now, and I can start on the bridge and shuttle bay areas.
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I personally think it looks better the other way, It flows better with the design. Maybe do something with the very center. Make that look more like a solid dish, like on a Galaxy, instead of illuminated.
Love what you have done so far on the ship.
Great job. :thumbsup:
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I like it the way you have it now. The color of the deflector depends on what color the hull is IMO. Right now I like the Blue.
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I like them both, they are both unique
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Ok, think I like this better, the pattern continuing that far into the center looked too busy... this makes a nicer balance. :)
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Definitely looking better. Not that it didn't already look awesome anyway.
Just a suggestion... not to go overboard or anything but how about a 3 split deflector design... maybe a triangular shape in the middle.
Anyhow, this is a sweet model... it's real good to have you back CG.
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I think it's too cramped in there for three. It looks fine as is. Though I think the brown trim clashes with the blue.
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I think it's too cramped in there for three.
Gigity gigity!
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I love this design! I like both Deflector shapes but had a thought on the single one, I think it would look quite good with a raised part in the middle, a bit like the Intrepid Deflector with the blue surrounding it.
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I say kick the split...
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Considering the general shape of the space of the deflector, either design would look fine.
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Ok, think I like this better, the pattern continuing that far into the center looked too busy... this makes a nicer balance. :)
I think either deflector will look good on this beauty. Now this should have been the Luna Class design for the USS Titan. I'm sure Captain Riker would have definitely approved over the one that was actually chosen.
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I think either deflector will look good on this beauty. Now this should have been the Luna Class design for the USS Titan. I'm sure Captain Riker would have definitely approved over the one that was actually chosen.
Wholeheartedly don't agree. This is a beautiful design but I really like the design of the Luna class... and so did the many, many who voted for it to be the Luna class.
But that's just my opinion.
I like the way these deflector designs are going.
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You know what...I can almost see an "F" on there if you know what I mean.
That is an awesome design.
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We already have
a good an excellent a perfect F. :P
I think this would make a great U.S.S. Excelsior NCC-2000-B or similar, though. ;)
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You know what...I can almost see an "F" on there if you know what I mean.
That is an awesome design.
Me too. I think it would fit.
@Farshot: Nothing to stop this from being CG's rendition of the F. ;)
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I say go for the F!
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If this gets the F, then I will not download! :evil:
I WILL NOT BETRAY DJ CURTIS, BC GOD!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:
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I do have to agree that we pretty well have a definitive F. I think this ship deserves a name of her own.
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Lol... I have no intention of contending for fancy titles and such :D
Besides, this would probably come from a similar timeframe as the Sov, no reason to make it an Enterprise.
I'll work out the details later, for now it's like a more heavily armed and slightly smaller Sovereign derivative.
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I might actually go with a sort of gold/yellowish like the Sovereign. But I like blue ones better. :)
Perhaps you could make a gold/yellow deflector as something of a prototype, and the blue one as a standard version, like DJ did with the Century?
It's looking fantastic!
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How about a new U.S.S. Lexington NCC-81709? or U.S.S. Yorktown NCC-81717 something along those lines....We have a great Enterprise-F
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How about a new U.S.S. Lexington NCC-81709? or U.S.S. Yorktown NCC-81717 something along those lines....We have a great Enterprise-F
I vote for Yorktown. Good name, compliments the Enterprise well.
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I'll work out the details later, for now it's like a more heavily armed and slightly smaller Sovereign derivative.
CG, get out of my head! First off, if the pylons were swept back and lowered even with the horizontal axis of the secondary hull, it would be an almost dead ringer for my Endor-class design that has yet to be fully realized, and it's also supposed to be a more heavily armed and slightly smaller Sovvie-style ship. :P
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Heheh, well, I'm not sure yet. I might make it into a carrier, and split the front of the saucer still, but I was waiting to do a carrier style ship until this one's done (not to mention the Sov).
Added the upper bridge structure, seems a bit tall, but it's got a big hangar built into it that only extends about half way forward. Even added an upper torpedo emplacement into the front of it, possibly a second quantum launcher to cover the upper forward arc.
Also tried a yellowish version of that deflector texture, but not sure which color I like yet. The paintscheme colors will decide it I think, but I'm nowhere near that point yet.
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Very nice design. :yay:
I think the deflector is great. Maybe add some very light blue in those two white parts.
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This is looking beautiful. Any chance we can see a size comparison with your Sovereign you're also working on?
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Keep it yellow, I hate how everyone makes blue deflectors...
I still say go for the F! You wrote the book on the Sovereign, if anyone deserves to make a follow-up it's you.
Nothing against DJ.
For people like FarShot, you could always release multiples w/ different names, so he could download the one not called Enterprise...
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Keep it yellow, I hate how everyone makes blue deflectors...
lots of people prefer blue deflectors (like me lol) but thats just a matter of personal taste...
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Blue fits the era, and is easily recognizable (We've seen blue in all eras, it's one of the things that help identify as a fed design)... She's purdy dude, those nacelles are just stunning.
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Nice!
How about Ranger Class for a name?
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I think we should start launching names at it when CG asks for it. For all we know he already has a name for this unusual beauty. ;)
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Yeah, I actually like Farshot's suggestion better. (NCC-2000-B)
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Whatever it is called will be fine with me. This has turned out to be an awesome design. :thumbsup:
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Have a look at the color scheme on the Enterprise G. That might work well here.
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I don't know, I think the G's color scheme got lost with the size. At a distance the G's color just blended into a gray really easily in my opinion.
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That's the Eclipse class one, right? Been looking at that, and yep, I like the really subtle gray/blue/green pattern on that one.
I need to learn how to make textures like you do though, I tend to take way too much time when I start making aztec patterns.
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Wow I love how this thing Is coming along CG, I am curious as to how big It will be though compared to the Sovereign, although I would assume It would be around the same length considering the size of the saucer Is roughly identical. Those nacelles make this ship really stand out, as for the textures I believe that this would look great with a Sovereign inspired scheme. I can already picture where the saucers hull plating, escape pods, and windows would be placed. Will there be a Sovereign yacht on this one, or a variant that's longer? I also prefer the unified deflector array, for some reason the split one looks cluttered to me but of course that Is my own opinion. I can't wait to see how this ship In Its entirety will look once completed.
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look at CR's war sovereign, that scheeme would look nice
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Damn! Why didn't I think of it before? The Voyager-B! It looks like it could be.
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Congrats to CG for winning the modder of the month award have a dawg cookie
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huh wasn't this thread longer??? anyway cause I thought I replied about the recent pics.
this ship CG is pure awesome! The Duel deflector is perfect as I thought.
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huh wasn't this thread longer???
ya and there a number of recent offtopic posts so it got trimmed...
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Cool design! :yay:
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Quick update, I just finished rebuilding the Sov's pylons. I finally realized how misshapen the old ones were in a couple ways.. really weird thickness in some spots, badly blended, etc. Mostly, I couldn't get the old vents to line up with the schematics, so I just deleted the interiors, and rebuilt them using the existing edges. Much better looking too. :)
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*whistles* OMG WOW, maybe you should do this to some other ships, i can thing of one that needs a bit more detail in it, the saber class, that things near enough all flat faces with hardly any model detail....
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Holy fictional deity almighty not creator of non-existent heaven & earth...
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Outstanding!
Looks real clean.
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That looks fantastic!
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This is nothing less than incredible, and therefore deserving a cookie.
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I've been itching for an update to the Sovereign for a long time now, if this one is released I'm sure it'll deliver. Awesome work. Would you mind if I asked what the poly count is as it stands right now?
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Very nice modelling work here, great job :thumbsup: COOKIED
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I've been itching for an update to the Sovereign for a long time now, if this one is released I'm sure it'll deliver. Awesome work. Would you mind if I asked what the poly count is as it stands right now?
Polys right now are up to very close to 28k. My current plan is to finish this version and keep it at this level, then take the old 13k 1.0 model and rework it to match this one, staying around 10-12k. I'll have to rework it significantly to match, but it'll be without all the extra surface details and rounded edges, so it'll cut a ton off the polycount.
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why not release both? have one around 30k and one around 15k?
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An easier method would be to use a reduce-polys plugin or something. Lightwave does a pretty good job of preserving mesh quality even when cutting models down by 75%, I can't even begin to imagine the tricks Max could do. :funny Either way, ship looks awesome.
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An easier method would be to use a reduce-polys plugin or something. Lightwave does a pretty good job of preserving mesh quality even when cutting models down by 75%, I can't even begin to imagine the tricks Max could do. :funny Either way, ship looks awesome.
eh... Max already has that... it's called optimize mesh... XD
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Yeah, and trust me, it fails miserably most of the time... Although, I suppose part of the trick there is reducing BEFORE mapping the mesh... :P
And yep, I do plan on releasing both. They'll be different LOD models.. I might include 4 LODs on this one, but I'll have to make them all match really well, and actually texture them separately once I make the texture maps up.
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What then are the plans for the Sov-alike with the cool pylons?
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Yeah, and trust me, it fails miserably most of the time... Although, I suppose part of the trick there is reducing BEFORE mapping the mesh... :P
And yep, I do plan on releasing both. They'll be different LOD models.. I might include 4 LODs on this one, but I'll have to make them all match really well, and actually texture them separately once I make the texture maps up.
by the way... will you make nemesis textures or fc/insurrection ones like on your 1.0 ?
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by the way... will you make nemesis textures or fc/insurrection ones like on your 1.0 ?
He's already stated he was probably going to use the Nemesis renders and possibly trace over them.
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Sorry for the long absence, been doing a bunch of stuff lately.
No real pics yet, this is the part I really hate... UV mapping.
It's not so much a hassle on some designs, but the Sov is just NASTY. So many goofy layers and stuff to add detail to, and and it's near impossible to map the hull without warping the hell out of the texture.
Plus, I may have made the main hull a little too skinny, so I'll have to check on that before I get too far into the texturing.
Either way though, I really wish I could pull all the textures from those renders.. but it's not going to be that simple. Some of the stuff has to be reconstructed from scratch, since those huge warp pylons make it impossible to get a solid side view of the rear hull.
I'm building up references from those pics, but I have no idea how I'm going to do this yet.
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Well, I have no idea what most of that means, and since I have no idea, I must assume it's difficult. So best of luck CG! Hang in there! :thumbsup:
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It's not so much a hassle on some designs, but the Sov is just NASTY. So many goofy layers and stuff to add detail to, and and it's near impossible to map the hull without warping the hell out of the texture.
I've been there.
Either way though, I really wish I could pull all the textures from those renders.. but it's not going to be that simple. Some of the stuff has to be reconstructed from scratch, since those huge warp pylons make it impossible to get a solid side view of the rear hull. I'm building up references from those pics, but I have no idea how I'm going to do this yet.
Trace a small section of the aztec panels, duplicate and rotate them all over the ship. It worked for me. It's a bit tedious but the final result is well worth it. I've attached a small sample of how I'm retexturing CG's Sovereign for another BC project. You might get a few ideas. :)
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Well, the real trick to the Sov's aztecs is that they're multi-layered, so that looks good so far :)
Here's the thing though.. as long as I have the renders... I'm having an internal debate over whether I should attempt to trace them straight. By that, I mean manually duplicating every panel I see. :funny :hithead:
See,I really don't want to do what I did last time (making a pattern and mapping it around the saucer and such) because it's too random where it places panels. Looking at those renders, there's a definite structure to the panels (especially on the main hull, which is where my troubles mostly come from.. the saucer's a piece of cake by comparison). I want to try and make those patterns as accurate as I can, preferably without going crazy. :funny
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Here's a better example. You will indeed go crazy by manually creating every little detail. You could "fake" it well. :)
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That looks real nice Wiley.
Take your time CG... and take lots of breaks in between.
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Ok, here's the main predicament..
The structure of the main hull is a royal pain in the arse to model, let alone map. Basically I'm hitting on the reason I wanted to remodel the thing from scratch in the first place... unless you build the hull divisions into it, you have absolutely no reference point to make straight lines.
I'm thinking I might remake the lower body and area around the pylons now, just to make the mapping more friendly. As of right now, I don't have any natural places to break the mesh, and there are no reference points to line up the windows.
Ok, I'm backing up what I have so far, but the lower and rear hull are goin goodbye. Remodel commencing in 3, 2, 1...*deletes*
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Well good luck on that CG :) compared to me you're a model god LOL I only hope to get to your level of models :)
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We should really restrain ourselves from calling him a god, before it goes to his head and he starts smiting people.
Wiley, that texture work is superb, reminds me how much I'm looking forward to my pre-ordered improved-paintjob re-issued Diamond Select Enterprise E! (http://www.411beanies.com/askrandypix/sdcc2010/IMG_1352.JPG)
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We should really restrain ourselves from calling him a god, before it goes to his head and he starts smiting people.
CG hasn't given any indication that he's like that... :lostit:
Good luck with the remodeling CG. I look forward to seeing it when you've got it ready. :)
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CG hasn't given any indication that he's like that... :lostit:
Good luck with the remodeling CG. I look forward to seeing it when you've got it ready. :)
It's a joke :P
I too look forward to seeing more :)
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It's a joke :P
Quoted for truth, and to dispel any doubt.
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We should really restrain ourselves from calling him a god, before it goes to his head and he starts smiting people.
Wiley, that texture work is superb, reminds me how much I'm looking forward to my pre-ordered improved-paintjob re-issued Diamond Select Enterprise E! (http://www.411beanies.com/askrandypix/sdcc2010/IMG_1352.JPG)
So when did Art Asylum become Diamond Select? That would explain why that ship(actual model) is the exact one that i've already had for years.
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So when did Art Asylum become Diamond Select? That would explain why that ship(actual model) is the exact one that i've already had for years.
Art Asylum did the sculpt, but it's distributed by Diamond Select Toys.
Back on topic, I can't wait to see what this Sovvie will look like when you've perfected her CG.
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So when did Art Asylum become Diamond Select? That would explain why that ship(actual model) is the exact one that i've already had for years.
Compare the paintjob with yours, it's way more accurate. Art Asylum are packaged and distributed through Diamond Select Toys. Sorry for staying off topic.