Star Trek: Discovery Discussion (WARNING: SPOILERS)

[Morgan]

not you, Frasi...er, I mean Morgan, I mean this ongoing argument between DT and Tuskan.  it's like watching Siskel and Ebert on a thumbs up/thumbs down movie   

I think it's best that we go ahead and drop this before it flares up again.  Real talk:  We're all just too damn old to be acting like keyboard warriors and/or concerning ourselves with keyboard drama.  I got enough things to worry about just when it comes to making sure my stupid over-priced rent is paid at the end of each month.

I think there are still people out there on dialup, for Pete's sake!

There are, mostly in rural areas without much broadband infrastructure, but that's a minority of people.

If people are still on dialup in 2019, that's an issue with their service providers. Not an issue with the services offered on the Internet (streaming services). I understand the hatred of CBS All Access, as the previous Trek shows have all been on broadcast. But the last such show was in 2005, well before the advent of ANY streaming service. This is 2019. People want to be able to consume their weekly television shows at their own pleasure, on any device they so choose, in any location. Being locked to a singular television set is so... 1960s.

Right on the mark.  Ultimately the Internet has advanced to a point where it has taken the place of regular TV services, and as much as I dislike CBS All Access, ultimately you can't blame them for taking advantage of those advancements and trying to capitalize on it - that's life in Ferengi-ish society.

Crazy fact:  DVR was just getting started in the early 2000s when Enterprise was airing, and DVR numbers weren't counted in the Nielsen ratings at the time.  It turned out that if they were, Enterprise may have actually survived as the DVR numbers were pretty respectable.

[Darkthunder]

My biggest peeve with streaming, is that they are adding more and more of them. When they want to combat pirating, this simply does the opposite since most people don't want to subscribe to 15 different services, to binge their favorite shows. Much better to cooperate between various corporations, and develop 1 "mega service" that functions globally with all of the same content. Piracy gone!

I'd be willing to 30-40 dollars a month for such a service, as opposed to 10 dollars for Netflix, another 10 dollars for Disney+ etc.

[King Class Scout]

probably wouldn't happen, DT...there's too many standards and practices variants to deal with, and that's just in the US alone, let alone the rest of the world 

i know ALL about dialup, 'cause i amrural. where I'm at, there are extra complications because of the terrain, unstable underground problems, and property owner items, let alone the multiple levels of bureaucracy to deal with. you need a sat service to get much, here, and with the mountains all being in the exactsame direction as the satellites...

[Morgan]

My biggest peeve with streaming, is that they are adding more and more of them. When they want to combat pirating, this simply does the opposite since most people don't want to subscribe to 15 different services, to binge their favorite shows.

Cookied this.  This is the exact reason why I watch Discovery via... umm... alternative methods.  I don't need CBS All Access for one show - especially because CBS All Access makes you pay extra to avoid commercials.  There is no way in hell I will pay for a streaming service that doesn't even get rid of ads at the lowest tier.  Truthfully, I don't even watch TV much anymore to begin with.  It's mostly just background noise while I either play games or read.  That's it.

Unfortunately, combining all streaming services into one mega service would mean that all these competitors are now working together and sharing profits.  Fat chance of that happening in this oh so wonderful 2019 America most of us live in 

[King Class Scout]

"alternate methods" just went out the window.  I picked up Disco S1 on dvd...actual PHYSICAL copy.  I'm currently in the middle of it.

I stand by my opinion, after halfway through the season, that Disco is a kitbash of every other version of trek.  I hear and see elements from everything from TOS to the JJverse, and the potent variety I've read all through the novels.  I also detect a lot of Peter David and Daine Carey/Duane in the plots.

as for the Klingon's new appearance that gave the rest of you guys heart attacks, the behind-the-scenes stuff provided on the disk explains the whole thing in two words: Glenn Hetrick.  for those of you that don't know, the makeup team responsible for Disco is the same guys that judged Syfy's Face Off series 5 years ago.  and if you watched ANY of that show, the name is the ONLY explanation you need.

as for the show itself, all I see is the Trek experience, not the "they changed it, so it sucks" or the "it's different, so it sucks" tropes a lot of you guys seem to firmly believe in.

[Morgan]

I stand by my opinion, after halfway through the season, that Disco is a kitbash of every other version of trek.  I hear and see elements from everything from TOS to the JJverse, and the potent variety I've read all through the novels.  I also detect a lot of Peter David and Daine Carey/Duane in the plots.

I'd say that's fair.  Season 1 had a couple of stand-alone episodes reminiscent of TOS/TNG; a season-long plot line with the Klingon War similar in style to Enterprise's third season and an overarching war like DS9 and the Dominion.  I don't know where you're at in the season, but there will be an Enterprise season-four style mini arc thrown in too.

as for the Klingon's new appearance that gave the rest of you guys heart attacks, the behind-the-scenes stuff provided on the disk explains the whole thing in two words: Glenn Hetrick.  for those of you that don't know, the makeup team responsible for Disco is the same guys that judged Syfy's Face Off series 5 years ago.  and if you watched ANY of that show, the name is the ONLY explanation you need

I'm not familiar with Face Off, so the name doesn't ring any bells.  Of course, since he's responsible for the radical change in Klingon appearance, I'll be sure to remember it now.  I've said before, I can live with some visual changes - it's 2019, not 1968 - but the season one Klingons were just so far removed from everything that we know as Klingon that they were just too much.  Season two, thankfully, dialed these changes back.  Kol-Sha in season two's "Point of Light" actually looks like a natural evolution of the TNG/DS9-style Klingons that would have been far better in season one.

[King Class Scout]

I've hit the second half with the LONG mirrorverse arc.  Ash isn't exposed, yet, and neither is Lorca.

Face Off was one of the last in the slew of competition reality shows.  it was hosted on syfy from approximately '12-'17 as a trigger competition for modern-day makeup and prosthetics artists.  it was hosted by the daughter of ultra-famous Makeup artist Michael Westmore, and judged by the aforementioned Glenn Hetrick and Neville Page makeup team, with the third judge being tied to the theme of the particular segment of the competition.  two examples of a judged Competition: create a REAL LIFE makeup based on the "World of Warcraft" franchise; create a NEW species makeup for the Star Wars franchise to be used in a later movie (said competition was apparently BEFORE LucasArts was sold to Disney).  the emphasis from the judges was "new, NEW, NEW, NEW!!1one"  the judge team are the ones doing Disco's makeup, and to me, that explained literally EVERYTHING about the New Klingon™ appearance.

as for "enterprise style arc", I'm afraid you'd be literally Spoilering me; I have yet to see every episode of TOS, let alone TAS, TNG, DS9 (I left off at the very start of the HINTS of the Dominion War!), VOY or ENT.  I haven't seen the third JJverse, yet, either!  the ONLY thing I have completed is TMP! i know more of the novelverse, and I'm only halfway through THAT as well.  being rural, i was confined to antenna only when tng/ds9 was on the air, and voy/ent were cable only (and, seemingly, only on after the late night threshold IF the local station bought them)

and you guys wonder why I'm not going all "eww" at disco?  because I haven't archive binged all of trek to notice all the little variants you guys do.

so far, my received opinion runs more to complaints of "where's the damn lights", and the disgustingly strong presence of LED primary colors.  so far, only the klingon ships (specifically Sarophagous) have anything aproaching what appears to be natural lighting in S1

[Nebula]

Bridge!

[King Class Scout]

well, at least they kept the red on the rails XD.

I'm more interested in what appears to be a quaddie on the viewscreen window right behind the red alert notice.

[Darkthunder]

Enough... with... the... lens... flare... generators!!!

Haven't we had enough of that BS from the JJverse?

[Nebula]

At least it’s from actual light sources this time

[Darkthunder]

True, but it's also light sources that didn't need to be there. The glare from the consoles, and the overhead lights are more than enough.

[Morgan]

Ok this weeks episode has me forgiving everything from my previous rant.  The look at Pike's future in and of itself was just epic, and I thought the way his chair was done did a good job blending modern aesthetic with previously established canon.  The fact that Pike now knows his fate and still accepts it just makes him even more of a legend in my mind.  I feel like Pike has become Discovery's breakout character like Quark with DS9 or Seven with Voyager - I'm loving every minute he's on screen.

Brief look at the Enterprise bridge in the preview for next weeks episode.  I noticed the chairs from TOS and the colors actually remind me of Star Trek VI's military aesthetic for the Enterprise-A, while also being in line with what Discovery has established.  It's not bad and I don't want to judge too much as we've only seen very little.  So far though, while I'm not hating the look I am wishing they could have found a way to get closer to what we know from TOS.  That's just me, though.

[King Class Scout]

hey, at least they kept the RED.  I got to see a still, and I was more interested in the apparent Quaddie on ent's screen.  my mother happened to take a look over my shoulder, and commented that the tops of the chairs were too narrow, and looked painful.  i had to tell her the original budget probably had paramount buying recycled 50's kitchen chairs

frankly, morgan, we're NEVER gonna see an exact match to TOS.  the viewscreen ALONE in the still said that. the Cage/Menagerie version of the original connie bridge looks like it was the size of a 35 inch CTR TV set!

let's face it, disco is an alternate universe and is meant to appeal to MODERN viewers, not us classic trekkies/ers or even the JJers.  what I find annoying for disco so far is the OVERuse of LED's literally everywhere in an otherwise blacked-out set, which makes the JJverse's "everything's an iPod" esthetic and ENT's Nuclear submarine esthetic look a lot better.

[Morgan]

frankly, morgan, we're NEVER gonna see an exact match to TOS.  the viewscreen ALONE in the still said that. the Cage/Menagerie version of the original connie bridge looks like it was the size of a 35 inch CTR TV set!

Oh I know, and I'm not saying that they should re-create the original Enterprise bridge like they did in "In a Mirror Darkly" for Enterprise (though as an old school fan I wouldn't object to it if they did  ).  When I say a little closer to the original, I mean like the shape of the viewscreen, maybe adding the astrogator to the helm/navigation station (modernized for 2019 of course), and perhaps keeping the computer interface style Discovery introduced but with more TOS-like colors.  That's just me personally.  Again, I'm not saying the bridge looks bad at all, it's just for my tastes I think there was room to for a little more classic vibe.

what I find annoying for disco so far is the OVERuse of LED's literally everywhere in an otherwise blacked-out set, which makes the JJverse's "everything's an iPod" esthetic and ENT's Nuclear submarine esthetic look a lot better.

I can't argue with you there, but to be fair to Discovery, overuse of LEDs has been a thing since as far back as Voyager - hell, the Doctors golf balls had blinkies in that show.  Sometimes I wish Hollywood would get it through their heads that blinkies everywhere doesn't always equal "futuristic" and more often than not just makes audiences say "what the fuck are these lights for?"

ENT's Nuclear submarine esthetic look a lot better.

I actually think Enterprise did a damn good job asthetically balancing what we might think of as futuristic with what we saw in TOS - especially in season four where some brighter colors started coming out (doors painted blue, some blue carpeting, the parts that stayed metallic looked brighter, the transporter pad got a very retro design to the backwall).  Enterprise certainly has its flaws but it has its strengths too, and I think the look is one of the strengths.

[King Class Scout]

I dunno, it looked like that astrogator was included in the shot I saw (which had the camera in McCoy's idle spot, from the looks of it).  like I said, I was kinda distracted by the quad engine that was on screen

the blinky lights has been around a lot longer than you think.  so long, it has a Trope Name.  what I was objecting to isn't the blinking, but the fact that they're basically making everything TRON-trek, and I know most of you guys know what the TRON universe is.  it's also the fact they've made the colors too strong as well as too concentrated into tron strips.

I agree with the ENT esthetics, otherwise, I wouldn't have DLed the bridge pack

[Lurok91]

I wish I still had time to mod...I would have leapt on that DSC Enterprise bridge  .

[King Class Scout]

*grins* don't worry about it, Lurok, some of us are still at it.  I've got one designed, one in mind (NSEA Protector!), and one that I don't think got released.

I have a TOSed Disco in the pipeline along with a powered up Refitprise.

[Morgan]

So now that season two is over, some initial thoughts:

* Overall, season two was very good and vastly superior to season one.  It has its good and bad moments like any other show, but overall it was enjoyable.

* This episode is 90% space battle.  I'm ok with that - I'm a 12-year-old trapped in the body of a 30-year old man; I like watching explosions every once in a while and this episode had a lot of that.

* Glad to see that even in 2019 the set people remember that Starfleet packs the consoles on its ships with rocks and fireworks.  Yes, it makes absolutely no practical sense, but fuck it, it's as big a part of Trek as redshirts at this point.

* Discovery being removed from the 23rd century and placed in the 33rd century opens up a whole new world for season three and gives the writers a lot of creative freedom without stepping on fans toes.  The process of removing Discovery from the timeline seems a bit phoned in (classify it and we'll never speak of it again).

* The ending onboard the Enterprise felt so much like a backdoor pilot for a Pike show, and goddamn it we should fucking get one.  Anson Mount was a gift and Pike is exactly the kind of character we need leading a show in this day and age.

[007bashir]

So now that season two is over, some initial thoughts:

* Overall, season two was very good and vastly superior to season one.  It has its good and bad moments like any other show, but overall it was enjoyable.

* This episode is 90% space battle.  I'm ok with that - I'm a 12-year-old trapped in the body of a 30-year old man; I like watching explosions every once in a while and this episode had a lot of that.

* Glad to see that even in 2019 the set people remember that Starfleet packs the consoles on its ships with rocks and fireworks.  Yes, it makes absolutely no practical sense, but fuck it, it's as big a part of Trek as redshirts at this point.

* Discovery being removed from the 23rd century and placed in the 33rd century opens up a whole new world for season three and gives the writers a lot of creative freedom without stepping on fans toes.  The process of removing Discovery from the timeline seems a bit phoned in (classify it and we'll never speak of it again).

* The ending onboard the Enterprise felt so much like a backdoor pilot for a Pike show, and goddamn it we should fucking get one.  Anson Mount was a gift and Pike is exactly the kind of character we need leading a show in this day and age.

Agreed to everything you said.