Some more Bridge Modding questions

[Villain]

Okay, so a few months ago, I posted some rather ugly shots of a pretty horrid bridge, I feel I've learned enough via ship modelling to get me by on designing scenery/sets. While this isn't a primary project, not only will it help me learn and eventually build something for my portfolio, but I can hopefully provide them for something usable in BC. So I have a few questions regarding it:


Firstly: What is the optimal polycount for bridges? I think I recall somebody saying 18k~21k, but I'm most likely wrong.

Second: What is the optimal polycount for characters (Per character)?

Thirdly: I'm unaware of any tutorials, would it be possible to get in contact with somebody in the know (when they have time, of course) about how to go about this exactly? I understand that many if not all are busy with life or other things, but any amount of help in any amount of time would be greatly appreciated.

[MLeo]

Bridges are mostly bogged down with textures.

The polygon figure sounds ok.


Regarding characters, I wouldn't suggest going over the EF2 character polygon counts.
Also remember, you need to add the character polygon counts to the total bridge polygon count.

Your best bet is to ask, specific, questions here.

Generally it goes like this:
You model the bridge, you texture it, you generate, and apply, lightmaps for it (ask when you get there).
Then you need to animate the bridge using the biped skeleton included in the SDK.

And then of course some scripting, I can help you there when needed (I've seen enough bridge scripts ).
Also, the animations needed can generally be "extracted" (the types of animations, not the animations themselves) from the other bridges (look in the PreloadAnimations function/def of each bridge file, in scripts/Bridge, and the bridge plugin file of a bridge, found in scripts/Custom/Autoload/, it's the 'locations': { part).


As for the characters themselves, it's all an "uniform". ;)
But you must remember, only with BPUniforms can you get dynamic uniform switching.

[Villain]

BPUniforms, as in, the one which allows you to swap uniforms while in game (As in, while in a quickbattle game)?

Thanks MLeo, do you think it's worth doing a test bridge? As in, really basic, a few chairs with a box representing the consoles, shoddy textures (My limit currently) and the like, just to get an idea of it?


EDIT: I just realised, I don't have Max 3.1 or Max at all... What exactly is Max required for? Is it the exporting method? I'm sure I can find a Milkshape Max 3.x converter...

[MLeo]

I must admit BP Uniforms hasn't been released, yet.

But yeah, BPUniforms allows you to dynamicly swap (I wouldn't suggest during a session) uniforms. And since character models are part of the "uniform" it means those can be swapped as well.


I would consider doing a test bridge to be usefull, it allows you to get a grasp at what is needed.
If memory serves me correctly, the nif exporter included with the SDK is the only one that can (currently) be used to export animations correctly, the milkshape exporter is incomplete.
And the only program that can use said plugin is 3DS Max 3 (and the included Character Studio2.2 is needed to load the skeleton).
It might be possible to use NifSkope to examine existing animations and then "fix" the new animations based on those.

[Villain]

I guess I've gotta ask around regarding borrowing a copy then. ;) But I can still build all the stuff in Lightwave then just export.. Right? (I have a 3ds exporter with my LW 7.0 ).

[MLeo]

I don't believe 3ds can store UV coordinates, so I wouldn't bother doing it in Lightwave.

[Villain]

Oh, well, uh... If there's a format that can, I'm positive I can export to it.

[MLeo]

I do admit, for some reason, not a lot of formats export everything. VRML maybe?

[Villain]

Can do. Either way I'm going to have to get Max at some point, and learning to do things the hard way usually makes one appreciate the easier way so much more. ;) Cheers mate, I'll be back with more questions, I guarantee!

[MLeo]

Or you could ask someone in a friendly way.

You may just want to try NifSkope.

[limey BSc.]

3DS does support the mapping. It's how I get from Max 9 to Max 3.

[MLeo]

It's one of the reasons Excalibur doesn't use it.

[Nighthawk]

when it comes to downgrading max 9 to 3, it's useful doing it through .obj or .3ds, if it's not animated.
you'll have to lightmap it first in max 9, make new materials with the lightmapped textures you made and use them as diffuse for the material in max 3. then you export the .nif
I'm almost sure Nifskope can export the model, but don't quote me on that. bridges have different nodes to place characters and stations. if not, you can try exporting it from max 9 with the niftools exporter, but you will need nifskope to edit it and add what might be missing.
maybe you can reverse-engineer a bridge that works and see what nodes it needs. the geometry can be brought from somewhere else.

for characters, you're doomed to go with max 3.
that's the reason why bridges got longly delayed and outdated

[MLeo]

When going from 9 to 3, use the BFF format (was called Back From Five, now Bobo's File Format or something like that), it works for anything untill 3 (so 3 included).

[Villain]

Thank you guys, as soon as I've got Max 3, I'll get started! Just don't hate me for some of the projects I have in mind *COUGH*GUNDAM*COUGH*

[MLeo]

Hey, I kinda like Gundam.

[Legacy]

Hmm.. let?s see... polygon counts for bridges... 10-15k is optimal.
Textures: Keep then as few as small as possible. Bridges support tiling. use it.
Bakcporting: neither .3ds or .obj supports propper channel 2 mapping coordinates, which we commonly use to store the lightmaps mapping information, so you need to work out alternatives. I suggest either use the BFF that Mleo mentioned or try to go with the same mapping coords, but that would mostly be a waste of texture space, as you would not be able to tile maps.
As far as nifskope goes... i think it may work, but i lost track of it about 5 versions ago.

[Villain]

Thanks mate, I'll be hassling everybody with more questions when I've got ahold of Max 3, which shouldn't be too far away (Under a week), so be prepared! Thanks again. ;)