Author Topic: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!  (Read 3443 times)

Offline Daystar70

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Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« on: October 05, 2009, 06:05:14 PM »
Anyone know of any more "canon" BOP mods here? i was filming a coreographed battle for my series with 2 BOps helping a Fed taskforce battle Romulans, the BOPs could take a beating! sorry--Kvort class Maybe--theyre bigger more battle cruiser defined BOPs, but b'rel class, the smaller ones, get blown up almost as easily as a Dominion Bugship according to well--almost any Trek episode or film.

i guess i could try using Bcut to mod hardpoints i just wanted to ask if there was already ready to go more "balanced" Bops available.

Offline teleguy

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2009, 06:19:51 PM »
Try the Balanced Hardpoints Collection.

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2009, 07:08:17 PM »
Sounds good thanks  :funny

Offline Lionus

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2009, 01:14:56 AM »
and take their cloak and sensors out as soon as possible. After that the klingons usually start having thoughts of good day to die..  :evil
Star Trek Quad-nacelle fanboy Extraordinaire

StarFleet Research and Development Crash Test Dummie/Test pilot

"Beyond the rim of the star-light
My love
Is wand'ring in star-flight
I know
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Love,
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I know
His journey ends never
His star trek
Will go on forever.
But tell him
While he wanders his starry sea
Remember, remember me."

Offline Bones

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2009, 01:32:17 AM »
While I really enjoyed watching DS9 battles I never liked the idea of Defiant blowing up Dominion bug with single volley of pulse phasers, also most of the smaller/older ships like Miranda, Excelsior, B'rel, Hideki, Jem'Hadar Attack ship were simply cannon fodder which wasn't that cool :wtf I know there is a chance for torpedo to get past the shields but still it's unlikely that those ships would get blown like built from paper after one hit.
KM 1.0 forces you to put some effort into battle, to think of some cool moves (avoiding fire with Defiant or Rhode Island is my fav) and that makes battles interesting and more challenging, few years ago I enjoyed flying and blowing stuff with single shot but now I prefer 1-1 or 1-3/2-5/3-8 battles and I can tell you klingons are meant to be tough ;)

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2009, 10:36:42 AM »
There's a LOT of things that i hated about TNG+ combat that was irritating and made no sense, like how they stated every single thing they were doing while fighting in a SHUTTLE , i was watching some Voyager Eps on YouTube last eve to brush up on some ideas for my series and chakotay and Janeway are in a shuttle running from the Vidians, Janeway is Telling chakotay every evasive maneuver she is 'about to do" or she tells him every SINGLE time "Firing phasers". umm... that was the stupidest most unrealistic approach to stellar combat i can imagine..you don't need to EXPLAIN when your the frikkin captain, first off, and second, taking the time to verbalise every single action takes away drama of reflecting a desperate Chase or dog fight IMO.

I also hate how over dramatic they get with shield impacts and inconsistent strength rations of ship types..when small ships like a Bird of prey fire a torpedo at a Galaxy class starship, one hit should not ROCK and shake the bridge the way they make it. Now one other thing that boils down to not having a real explanation, i know it is because of FX decisions made on the part of the execs at the time a battle is shot and nothing more (although trek hardcore fans will come up with varied explanations, the truth is they do NOT think about the consistency when they do these things, they go with production effects and what will make it work for that moment.) Skin tight shields and Bubble shields...Enterprise era ships shields were using Fx akin to just above the hull shielding impacts, but then, so was NEMESIS with enterprise E, as well as Undiscovered country, and the new JJ trek.
When you see shields getting hit and they still say " damage to sensor array" or some crud, the only explanation is that shields absorb an X % of energy from a weapon and so much still penetrates, the shields still Hold but momentarily some penetration occurs, like internal bleeding from being hit by a blunt object i suppose. As far as the Bugships being wasted by defiant in one pulse phaser blast, i would chalk that up to wartime Race of studying ones enemy and technology and applying improvements to the weapons, the Defiant was after all, focused on being an anti-borg weapon like the soverighn was, which means IMO the weapons were made to be highly frequency mod capable and probably found a very effective setting that overtook Bugship shields faster than the Dominion were able to Compensate defense wise. (The Dominion may have been more advanced than starfleet, but we don't know that they were superior in EVERY aspect of technology, plus the founders assumed they had endless reenforcements in the Gamma quadrent and could chuck jem'hadar ships at the enemy and focus on offensive numbers vs researching technological superiority.) Wow i think i out ranted myself this time lol  :roll

Offline candle_86

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2009, 12:51:05 AM »
I disagree, the Klingons are Warriors and we know from ENT there torpedo tech is older, they likly carry full yield torpedo's even on a BoP. We know Starfleet has increased yeild but the outter casing is the same size since the Connie refit to Voyager, likly the Klingons casings are also the same size and being Warriors they put there biggest baddest weapons even on there weakest ships.

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2009, 01:15:09 AM »
But remember when Kruge in search for spock asked "why doesn't she finish us? she outguns us TEN to ONE?" Like i mentioned in one post today the FX vs the consistency wavers on trek contantly, i remember Ds9 episodes where the BOps could blow up a Bugship in one volley as easily as Defiant, and others where a BOP took a lot of damage and blew up in one shot in another. Maybe it is that they have to choose where they focus their shield facing, this can make sense if you look at that Ent episode where Archer had Malcolm do that 180 degree flip in that nebula to hit the aft weaker side of the early BOP, if we have to find some rationalisation to it maybe the one or two shot Dead Bops happened to have shields facing away from where they got hit.

Offline Lionus

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 01:27:50 PM »
Actually, I think that Klingon ships follow a design philosophy that doesn't give much other choices. weaker aft shields and weaponry encourage aggressive tactics, facing the opponents instead of running from them etc.. And while Constitution class has more weapon arrays, if I recall right, the phaser arrays drain power from the main engines, and in Search for Spock, Enterprise was already heavily damaged from the battle with Reliant.
Star Trek Quad-nacelle fanboy Extraordinaire

StarFleet Research and Development Crash Test Dummie/Test pilot

"Beyond the rim of the star-light
My love
Is wand'ring in star-flight
I know
He'll find in star-clustered reaches
Love,
Strange love a star woman teaches.
I know
His journey ends never
His star trek
Will go on forever.
But tell him
While he wanders his starry sea
Remember, remember me."

Offline Bones

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2009, 05:01:14 PM »
The one-shot-blew-up Klingon BOPs from DS9 could have been damaged in previous engagement and then they entered battlefield with weakened shields and low if not critical hull integrity ;) afterall it was war and many ships got damaged but had to hold the lines no matter what costs they would have to pay so I guess it was all about it, instead of sitting in repair dock Klingons choose to fly battered ships to die as a brave warriors :P kinda silly but heroic :D

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 05:23:34 PM »
Although That is a great makeshift answer, the truth is there is no answer. I was browsing youtube earlier adn watched some guys "trek mistakes" vid and it was brilliant, depicting the RAMPANT inconsistencies across TNG Ds9 and Voyager, even TOS )spock told kirk about 5 different episodes "this is the hardest substance in existance" about 5 different things). I am rapidly Losing respect for the trek franchise as far as anything to even remotley worry about what is canon anymore. The producers have no excuse for such lazy idiotic mistakes as some of the ones i watched in said video, it was poor poor attention on their part, and i stand by New Dr Who as my Idol and standard of a show that remains consistent after 30+ years to prove a series can be consistent with its own Lore. I have a tendency to wane in and out of passion for Trek i went the last 3 years or 4 not caring about it until i was making 3d animated series and friends and i debated what to do for next project, we decided to go with a Trek story because it has an enormous support sytem and resources of Mods for mechinima to draw from, so i re-invested myself back into the franchise heavily. But when i saw this video today, it made all the inconsistent foolish mistakes come to the front and they are SO bad i hate to say, they are unforgivable and only reinforce my desire to make my story CLEAR it is an alternate universe because i am going to shake up the foundation of the established lore to its  knees and things will happen that a regular trek show producer would never allow. Trek is a great "idea" but poorly executed as a cohesive fictional history to draw on. It works best for me to cherry pick whats cool and toss out what is not.

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2009, 05:29:40 PM »
Note- The last post i just wanna share something about myself- I suffer from Bipolar type 1 and that is kinda like Male PMS, mood swings can effect my judgement so i may state this now and feel differently tomorrow LOL.  :D

Offline Bones

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2009, 03:11:09 AM »
Note- The last post i just wanna share something about myself- I suffer from Bipolar type 1 and that is kinda like Male PMS, mood swings can effect my judgement so i may state this now and feel differently tomorrow LOL.  :D
Oh now that would explain much ... now why I don't bark on people just because I'm in bad mood ??? because when I feel bad I don't post at all, it is not your duty to post everyday.

You'll say it's not that easy... I say it is easy ... following new BCC fashion to undisclose health status to explain yourself for your attitude I have epilepsy and even now I can pass out as I write but it's no drama :)

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2009, 01:55:20 PM »
Your absolutely correct in that regard. It was not an excuse, after i made the post i regretted acting before thinking and so i offered an "explanation".No offense Bonesr, but epilepsy and Bi polar are not the same, and to compare them to make a point is not fair IMO because the effects of Bi polar include making impulsive emotional choices and no, i'm not saying it was impossible to stop myself, its like with ADHD its "harder" the things non bi polar minds and non adhd minds take for granted as being " controllable" you would not understand the nature of "not easily controlling it" just as i will never understand what a seizure feels like unless i have one.

Offline Bones

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2009, 04:25:20 PM »
Your absolutely correct in that regard. It was not an excuse, after i made the post i regretted acting before thinking and so i offered an "explanation".No offense Bonesr, but epilepsy and Bi polar are not the same, and to compare them to make a point is not fair IMO because the effects of Bi polar include making impulsive emotional choices and no, i'm not saying it was impossible to stop myself, its like with ADHD its "harder" the things non bi polar minds and non adhd minds take for granted as being " controllable" you would not understand the nature of "not easily controlling it" just as i will never understand what a seizure feels like unless i have one.

Nah I'm not comparing these at all, just giving you example as I can get very depressed after yet another embarrasing pass out in front of many strangers as well as friends or family. Well now that you've enlightened me what sort of disease is Bi polar I can imagine how it is to cannot control myself and I know it's hard for you.
seizures are not so bad (until I don't fall from anything I'm sitting on and smack my head... did that about 100+ times) apart from feeling dizzy after it...
Sorry for being too harsh.

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Birds Of Prey Are WAY to tough in BC!!
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2009, 05:23:02 PM »
Nah it's cool dude. But i think your right, people often think if your tossing the "add,bi-polar" card out that your using it as a get out of jail free card, but that's not the case, my college i was surprised , has entire ADD coach trained staff to help students with it because there are many ways people have learned to compensate in how the learning and absorbing and retaining of knowledge is different in add brains vs non, what is most frustrating for myself when you have both that and Bi-polar 1 (type 1 is called "Hypomania" basic summary- opposite of depression, have delusions of grandeur, over confidence episodes, cockiness, impulsive spending habits/lack of good judgement at big decisions, (my 3 ex wives would agree) The funny thing is that and its same with many i used to work with when i did call center sales type jobs inbound, "manic" episodes (if you want a great example of someone who is the POSTERCHILD of a perfect Hypo-manic persona look no furthur than 9th or 10th Doctor on new Dr who and that about sums it up) manic episodes, under the right circumstances, have gotten me ahead in jobs, with confidence to pick up a girl, or to accomplish tasks that others would give up on and i said "no way", so its been harder because its like a "Gift" and a "curse" at the same time, balancing it out is hard. My last ex wife (lol i joke at myself often about this subject, my character based on myself in upcoming star trek :Daystar series the x.o/tactical officer, will have a long list of ex wives as a self joke),my last wife was cerebal palsey and prone to seizures and i actually do understand where your coming from as i watched it happen a few times and had to make sure she did not choke on her own tongue.

BTW the way i ramble like right now is mostly due to my adderal for my add, it enhances manic tendencies according to my doc, makes me racey thought prone and talky talky when i get excited. :P Bottom line is don't worry about it and i appreciate you saying something.