Author Topic: The Precise Defiant  (Read 9929 times)

Offline KrrKs

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2011, 10:59:10 AM »
Defiants scaling is one of the worst in canon.
As you are already sure of most things, these will probably not help you much (or at all),
but Georg Joergens of the RissZeichnungs - Journal did draw Orthos and a Cutaway of the Defiant a "few" years back.

Ortho:
http://www.rz-journal.de/Gjoergens/Film-RZs/ST_NX-74205.htm

Cutaway:
http://www.rz-journal.de/Gjoergens/Film-RZs/ST_RZ-Defiant.htm

His work for another Science Fiction Series is usually pretty Good.
And apart from the three Impulse Engines these look reasonable to my Eye.

Offline Saquist

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2011, 08:56:47 PM »
They seem to be a variation on the fact files Defiant.
I'm currently trying to get Sketch up to match up some images for me in my spare time to get a bette idea on the shape of the nose's profile.

Offline sovereign001

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2011, 09:09:18 PM »
Cookie for your work mate!

Offline Saquist

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2011, 06:40:39 AM »
This really got me excited today when I got a chance to work on this.



I really had to struggle with the photo match but the results (I think) are spectacular.  Everyone knows this famous image of Defiant.  After about a week of fighting the 2 point perspective I think this is so close to perfect it's right next door.  Thanks to the straight and perpendicular lines on the underside of Defiant I got a successful perspective match up and started drawing in the shapes.

I was able to confirm the height (or dept) of the flanks hanging between Defiant's Engines.  The match was good enough to tell that at least from one ortho David Schimidt got them right.  How I know is because I only made one side and mirrored over the other side and got these results.  Fantastic...it matches with the photo with no problems.

I took advantage of some other intangible perpendiculars leading to the time of nose by estimating (by trial and error) the mid point of it's width on both the top and bottom and got a near perfect match for the front shape.  Incidentally this also tells me how far down the nose is from the flat bottom of Defiant, aswell as show that David Schmidt's interpretation of the nose in the side view may not be a flat straight bottom but infact there may be a slight angle since I'm having problems placing the lines perpendicular from the bottom of the deflector going back.  

Heres a half and half to judge for yourselves.



I'm going this far because I feel this shoulder section (between the nose and warp engines) is the most screw-up-able and I think can really throw off the look of the ship (that and the nose) so I want to run it through a simple 3D program to get a better idea of the lines I'll be putting in the official schematic.


Offline FarShot

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2011, 10:22:21 AM »
Oh wow.  I see how you were able to get such definitive results from this shot - this is one of the views where the studio model is actually lit decently.  So many times in the show it is really, and I mean really, hard to see.

Good job! *cookie time*

Offline DJ Curtis

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2011, 12:03:18 PM »
Excellent work, Saquist!

Offline Saquist

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2011, 05:26:09 AM »
the 1730 is out of commision again...
I'm going to half to decide whether to by an alienware or just continue on the rinky dink hp .


On hold.

Offline CyAn1d3

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2011, 10:55:16 PM »
the 1730 is out of commision again...

weak.  :banghead:
I came, i saw, i added a Sig.
Later gents, i have Youtube to take over.
Cy - 1-12-15

Offline Saquist

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2011, 03:34:36 AM »
I got the 1730 back from the shop and it's working again but supicious of the repeat board failure I decided to hold off on continuing the project.  After looking up some info on line I learn that the Graphic Card could be causing the board failure.  So I did so more research to diagnois the Card itself and ran this program called.  Furmark, http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/fur/

Since the 88000GTX has two cards in it the program tested both.  While one was opperating properly the other was not pulling voltage on it's fan and the fan had zero opperation.  The temperature is supposed to 61 degrees and I watched as the card raise all the way to 88 degrees.  I'm going to take it back to Vic's repair shop one more time to get the fan on the card working.  (I'd rather not buy another lap top so soon.)
----------
As for the project...
I started over on the Hp.  And got great results.  I've learned how to add multiple angles to the Sketchup's photo match process and now have most of the detail between the nose and the main body (that's normally visible) complete.

----------
The Nacelles

Looks like the nacelles aren't "who we thought they were", either.  The underbelly of the nacelles seems to have twist as it meets the different profile of the aft end of the nacelle.  I'm busy analyzing the effect in AutoCAD to find some rhythm and reason.  but I think I have the front cowlings of the nacelle at the right shape which DO show a slight curvature an not a straight line profile....

Defiant is truly more organic than one would have initially have thought.
This is not a true return to the project.  I after I drop off the computer today it should take about 3-4 days to get back and I've also taken a new position in two week that may require all my free time for study but I do plan on getting some results once I get my baby back between then and Oct 10.





Even though the curvature surfaces are faceted Sketchup renders it smooth but some things couldn't be avoided (which are currently visible) regardless the wire frame perpendiculars that I used to capture this are quite sound so when I transfer this to CAD that's capable of single line splines the effect will be smoother.



The reason I started all over is because I was having problems with these shoulder areas matching up ones the other curves where in place.  When I mirrored I didn't get the proper effect on the other side no matter what I did.  Here too the Torpedo area comes out right aswell when before it did not.

I haven't decided if the nodule hanging on the bottom back of the nose is at the right angle but I'll play with it to find out.



Right now I'm getting indication that the nose maybe too long.  Not sure how that could have happened.
I used CAD to give me an approxiate angle for the cowling of the nacelles at the front.  It looked good at first but after creating more of the non-angle portion bellow that's perpendicular to the ship's axis it seems it's slightly off which means I maybe tweaking it anywhere from 1 degree down to 1/4's of a degree to get them to match on either side.




This was the photo that was added to the photo match to get the nose cove details correct.
This is the one that makes me doubt the length of the nose but Sketchup expert say that certain photos will fail to be match if there is cropping and it's possible on this one.  For me the cove area was matched perfectly but nothing else did.



This is the photo I will be using to get the rear in shape before I for the dorsal section.
I got better results with this one than the second photo match but there is still slight problems.

Well at least it's progress.

Offline Saquist

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2011, 11:34:16 PM »
Currently On HOLD.

I haven't forgotten about this project.  There have been a few improvements on the example 3D model that I'm using to make the orthos but not considerable.  I'll come back to this at the beginning of NEXT YEAR which hopefully will bring me a system. 

Looking at getting a BOXX 8550
or a Alienware Aurora
or (my favorite) Cyber Power's Black Mamba Evo Fang...

This should put my CPU woes away for good.
And even let me start modding myself....

Offline FarShot

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2011, 06:19:27 AM »
Very much looking forward to next year then. :D

Offline JimmyB76

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2011, 05:33:26 PM »
Saquist - i am going to temporarily lack the thread (to avoid spamming off offtopic debates about anything and than flood your therad) which could happen) until you have something further to post about your project...
please send me a PM whenever youd like it reopened and ill unlock it right away :)

Offline Saquist

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2012, 06:27:40 PM »
Well, I've returned to Defiant (as well as other projects) for an accurate mapping of the ship's shape.  The new system has really helped me avoid the lagging of surface creations and object orbiting that my poor little HP pavilion laptop was so inadequate to manipulate.  

The Photomatching process got both better....and worse with the ease of manipulation.  Perhaps this is where my pursuit of perfection for this model with hit a wall.  Part of the Sketchup process purpose is to all me to get accurate measurements that I can input into CAD for a 2D draft of the ship that will be the "final say" on the ship's design (with pics to back it up.  However I began to find a couple of glaring inaccuracies and it was hard to tell which draft to trust...the Sketch up version (which is prone to a greater amount of human error because of having to manually match the vanishing points) or the 2 Drafts in AUTOCAD that I confirmed earlier in the thread with the overhead images of Defiant.  Frankly I trust the image tracings I did in CAD more.

Essentially the problem was discovered when I attempted to model the aft sections on the Defiant from the front.  How I've set this up is that I should be able to use the AUTOCAD measurements from the episode images and pictures to get me close enough to work the areas that I can't see in the Sketchup file or  "disconnected" with where I am in the sketchup file.  In fact it works vise versa since I made them to the same scale.  But Auto CAD says the aft sections are MUCH wider than Sketckup's image match drawing wants to place it at.

Fustrated...I started over but a worse problem develops matching what I already had.  I've been doing some combinations of modeling exactly the plans I have so far in Sketchup to see if I can then match what I have to the image but still not getting the best results.  I may have to rely on Sketchup to ONLY give me interpretations that I can then translate to CAD where the ortho's will be cut and dry.  But I want to keep trying for now.

So I moved on to smaller component just to see what it looks like completely in 3D and this is where I just adore Sketchup.



I fought this over the last month too.
1- I was shocked that Defiant's nose was so steep.
2- Surprised still how round it was
3-Surprised at the amount of odd ball contouring.

It's not all done and it's not currently accurate but it is a reasonable representation of what it will ultimately look like for the plans which pleases me for now.





This is where the problems I spoke of may be having the opposite effect from the rear of the ship.  It's barely noticeable but the Nose is a bit on the large side and the first signs of that occurred when I added more images to the match process and the nose continually tends to fall longer than it should have.  So this time I looked at it and does seem to be a WEE little to big.  But it's the shape that I wanted not the scale (although that would have been nice.)

Offline Bren

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #73 on: March 06, 2012, 08:18:59 AM »
Glad to see a return to this project! Great work!
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Offline ACES_HIGH

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #74 on: March 06, 2012, 01:58:27 PM »
I would double check your images and make sure nothing from the CGI has snuck in, I know the nose was one of the areas that was quite a bit different between the two versions.

Offline Saquist

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #75 on: March 22, 2012, 09:50:01 PM »
I'm going to try something different for Defiant.
I'll star this weekend for creating a Defiant by the plans I've figured out so far and no really so much on the photo matched Defiant.  I'll then put that Defiant in the photmatch and see how it measures up.  It may serve to reveal more information on the ships shape.

------------------

I'm Adding the Space Dock to this Thread for photo matching aswell since I have a lot of work already done on it.

The simple interior photo match ups I did just to get some rudimentary proportions of the main structure.





The Match is pretty good.  I think the perturbations in the matched are caused by perspective matching problems aswell as the likely hood that the actual structure is not absolutely asymetrical as this is actually a very large mini building that the production could actually walk through.



I started this about 6 months ago.  It's pretty okay but now I have the power in the CPU to actually finish this in the detail I want. 
I got the portions from a very accurate plan of the station as well as Robert Wild's images on his version of Space Dock he was doing for the Ship of the Line Calenders.





Obviously if this ever goes into BC...I'll have to radically scale back the model detail on the North City.



This shows the first version of the Dock's main Structure from that plan I spoke of earlier.  It was rudimentary but not I'll add the Photo matched Dock to this Dock's interior.




Like I normally do.  I created a set of drafting plans for the detail of the floor of the station and started using Sketchup to model it exactly where I found it to be in all the shots.  Recently I've found some high rez shots on the Internet in Sci Fi Meshes for Tobias Richter's Excelsior  model (beautiful by the way) and noticed the amount of detail I could put on the walls too.  I"ll make plans for those later.



Offline FarShot

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2012, 10:17:53 PM »
Holy guacamole, Saquist!  Details on ESD?  Beautiful!  Hurry up and get to modelling them for BC! :P

Offline Bones

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2012, 03:20:18 AM »
Interior looks amazing ! have a cookie !

Offline Killallewoks

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #78 on: March 23, 2012, 04:50:48 AM »
Thats some fantastic detail, and BC loves poiles so the more detail the better! The images show just how accurate this is and im glad its the TMP spacedock, the Enterprise would look to fit in it now.  :D

+1

Offline TheConstable6

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Re: The Precise Defiant
« Reply #79 on: March 24, 2012, 12:57:13 AM »
I found this thread late (sucks for me  :P) and I must say, your work on the Defiant amazes me! Your dedication and attention for detail blows me away. Keep going - all this hard work will pay off one day  :thumbsup:
Though much is taken, much abides; and though
 We are not now that strength which in old days
 Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
 One equal temper of heroic hearts,
 Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
 To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.