Author Topic: Star Trek Into Darkness - Images, Videos, Discussion, etc  (Read 102025 times)

Offline Saquist

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #760 on: May 28, 2013, 07:42:27 PM »
Entertainment is supposed to be entertaining.  I make this argument often.  I don't play video games to learn super deep life lessons, I play them to enjoy myself and have fun.  Movies should be the same.  And don't try to say the Trek movies prior to 09 were deep.  They weren't.  The deepest one was TMP and it did terrible at the box office.  It's a lot easier to be deep and philosophical in a 3 or 4 episode story-arc.

And I do applaud CBS for that.  I was concerned when TOS-R was first announced.

I'm just the opposite.  
I champion education.  Here's why.

(Someone here (on this site) by means of defending this film said that diving 100 meters in seconds wouldn't kill you.)
Imagine what would happen if someone believed that, took some spare air and stone & rope dived too far?

No one is Starving for Entertainment..  It's fast food.  It's cheap, it's every where and it's easy to find.  
My one requirement out of my Entertainment is ..."Don't make me stupider just because I watched it".
That's what 2009 did.  He did better this time.  But all-in-all...Abrams Trek makes more stupid mistakes per minute than Star Trek ever did.

--
I can point to Spock's Brain, and Threshold for that kind of stupid.
But in general Trek has done really well on using science or either AVOIDING scientific rules or bending them.

In TNG: Blood lines the Velocity of Warp nine is actually given a proper rate of speed vs the time of 20 minutes.
In VOY: Scientific Method the orbiting Neutron stars is properly depicted having a great amount of gravitational shearing. (ripple effect)
Trek uses more than 70 REAL stellar names.
TOS used the concept of antimatter, alternate universes, fusion and time dilation correctly.  Gene Roddenberry's concept of Field Propulsion turned out to be correct. (I wish he had lived to find that out.)
TNG: showed the first Type Ia supernova I had ever seen in science fiction.

Most people are irritated by what they call "Techno-babble" , most think it means nothing.  When they throw in their own spin, sure but most of time they are using actual terms.  Trek made that popular in Sci Fi just to be credible.

So I think to say, Trek hasn't lived up to Science accurately, only serves to sell short just how much it has gotten right and even speculated correctly.  


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Offline nxadam1701

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #761 on: May 28, 2013, 08:20:40 PM »
I don't know about the 2 hour excuse because there are tons of 2 hour movies that are memorable and spectacular. So that just leave terrible writing and lens flare.
When I left the theatre all you heard was the people complaining about the lens flare. Too much.
And let's be realistic, you get paid how much money to make sure you write a good story within the allotted time. Come on, these are suppose to be experts/professionals. No more excuses. :nono:

Adam

Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #762 on: May 28, 2013, 09:05:24 PM »
I don't know about the 2 hour excuse because there are tons of 2 hour movies that are memorable and spectacular. So that just leave terrible writing and lens flare.
When I left the theatre all you heard was the people complaining about the lens flare. Too much.
And let's be realistic, you get paid how much money to make sure you write a good story within the allotted time. Come on, these are suppose to be experts/professionals. No more excuses. :nono:

Adam
...You had a bunch of Nitpicky idiots in your theater then.  I'm sorry, but if you're complaining about LENS FLARE, then you have even less of a life than people say we Trekkies have.  And for the record, the lens flares seemed to be toned down a great deal from the previous film.

Also...being realistic, writers don't get paid much at all compared to the rest of the crew on a movie.  There's a reason they go on strike so often.

To Boldly Go...Again.

Offline eclipse74569

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #763 on: May 28, 2013, 09:17:48 PM »
I know right????
Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return, to obtain, something of equal value must be lost.  That is alchemy's first law of equivalent exchange.  In those days we really believed that to be the world's one and only truth~Alphonse Elric

Offline nxadam1701

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #764 on: May 28, 2013, 09:57:04 PM »
Shadow if you looking for an argument it isn't going to happen dude. I could care less about your opinion of what I/others think about JJs lens flare. My opinions of JJverse are directed to the movie not anyone in this forum. You clearly have issues.

Adam

Offline JimmyB76

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #765 on: May 28, 2013, 10:55:13 PM »
ok if people dont stop with the negative attitudes to others and dont stop being intense and argumentative to others then this thread will be shut down...
already a few moderators as well as myself have asked people to keep things constructive and respectful and frankly i am getting sick of people ignoring us now...  enough is enough!

guys - this is no longer a request...  kindly drop the snotty attitudes to others just because they dont agree with you - whether you like this film or not!  any more sour shitty attitudes will just get you a 2 week (or more) ban from here right away without warning, i dont care who it is...

if you get all pissy because someone doesnt like this movie or has faults they feel with it - this was not YOUR movie or YOUR project so if others dont like it, too bad!  stop taking it so damn personally!
and if you didnt like this film, thats fine - youre allowed to hate it as much as you want!  you can of course talk about your dislikes and disagreements without shitting all over the movie itself!

as with every other damn thing on the planet, there will be those who like and those who dislike - if people's opinions cannot be kept respectful to others and to the topic being discussed, then the conversation as a whole will be terminated...  dont let that happen!  i really do not want this thread locked and i do not want anyone banned for being negative or rude - so think very carefully before posting or just please dont post at all from here on out ok?  

this will not be brought up again...  please carry on WITH RESPECT - thx

Offline ShaunKL

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #766 on: May 28, 2013, 11:58:56 PM »
Did anyone notice any upgrades to the Enterprise's bridge?  If I recall correctly they may have made more sense of the controls under glass that didn't make sense, but I could be remembering the game.
Thanks for letting me know the forum was back up, guys.  I thought everyone died.

Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #767 on: May 29, 2013, 01:45:56 AM »
Did anyone notice any upgrades to the Enterprise's bridge?  If I recall correctly they may have made more sense of the controls under glass that didn't make sense, but I could be remembering the game.
*scratches head* Hmmm...I'm not sure, it looked the same.  Only thing I really noticed was Uhura's "Wash Switches" that she hit when hailing someone or something.  I'm hoping to see it again this weekend, so I'll try to keep a lookout for anything else. :idk:

And I apologize to pretty much everyone.  I am just more than a little flabbergasted at the dislike surrounding these films when all my friends who are Trekkies as well have all really liked them.  I just don't get it.  Perhaps I never will.  I don't think they're perfect.  The 2009 film could have at least made it a little more obvious that the Narada and her crew were being held by Klingons and could have at least actually mentioned Kirk's rank and the fact that he did study and do well.  Into Darkness underutilized a few characters(BONES AGAIN) and let the Enterprise take a pounding without dishing anything out.  I can find similar nitpicks in any of the Prime timeline movies.  Some more than others. :p

And I do find the lens flare criticism funny because they've been part of Trek for a long time.  We just called them torpedoes.  :funny

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Offline nxadam1701

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #768 on: May 29, 2013, 01:59:17 AM »
Shadow,
I'm also sorry for not giving the movies a chance and always kicking them down. I think it's mostly because I find myself ambivalent to the new timeline. Sorry again.

Adam

Offline Nighthawk

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #769 on: May 29, 2013, 02:22:01 AM »
Did anyone notice any upgrades to the Enterprise's bridge?  If I recall correctly they may have made more sense of the controls under glass that didn't make sense, but I could be remembering the game.

there seem to be some changes, but not noticeable right away.... maybe some changes to the consoles behind the captain's chair (maybe 2 stations instead of 3, or something like that)
also, the lighting around the captain does feel less "flare-ish", and the red alert strobes seem to stand out a bit more

I guess they traded any minor changes they could do to the bridge for the major redress in engineering and the new corridors.
I also noticed they did less wide establishing shots, save (again) for the new sections,... that's a move of a director who gives his product as granted... I mean, now when you see lens flares around, you know you're in the enterprise... and when you see uniforms around, you know you're in starfleet HQ.


also... was that bald guy in blue shirt an ANDROID? 0o

Offline 007bashir

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #770 on: May 29, 2013, 02:49:03 AM »
Thougt the same thing. Maybe its just an enhenced life form (ala Borg, just with the good guys...)

Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #771 on: May 29, 2013, 03:41:32 AM »
also... was that bald guy in blue shirt an ANDROID? 0o

From what I read over at TrekMovie, he's basically an "Enhanced human", with 1 or more cybernetic devices implanted. My thoughts? The work of a predecessor of Noonien Soongh. Arik Soong is likely dead by 2259, but possibly his offspring? Arik said that perfecting humanity via genetics may not be possible, whereby his thoughts went into cybernetics (a clever hint towards the future "Data").
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Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #772 on: May 29, 2013, 07:15:23 AM »
Or he could be from a planet that uses cybernetics.

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Offline 086gf

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #773 on: May 29, 2013, 02:07:32 PM »
Did anyone else spot the red tri-nacelle Armstrong type ship docking at the starbase? I noticed it right away my first viewing. I can't find the chart now but for the first movie they had drawn up some red/brown alternates for the various Kelvin kitbashes but didn't use.
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Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #774 on: May 29, 2013, 06:46:08 PM »
If things go as planned this time, I'm taking my sister to see it this weekend.  We went and saw Iron Man 3 last weekend, but she was too tired to sit through Star Trek as well.

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Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #775 on: June 01, 2013, 02:58:57 PM »
Double posting...I know, bad form...but I just posted this on another forum, and felt it deserved mentioning here as well.

Defending Star Trek Into Darkness(with some minor criticisms):

I'll be looking at some of the more common complaints and/or WTF's I've seen in regards to the movie and trying to defend them, though I am making allowances in some cases.  Let's get started.  WARNING, SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING!

Nibiru
First off, the biggest question is why was the Enterprise under water and why didn't they just beam Spock out from space.  I would THINK that most Trekkies could easily extrapolate from Chekov's line about the planet's magnetic field that transporters were not very reliable, and in fact, I would wager that the only reason they were able to get Spock OUT of the volcano is because the Enterprise moved directly overhead and within a certain distance.  This might also account for why the Enterprise wasn't in synchronous orbit OVER said volcano.  It's been shown in a few instances that magnetic fields disrupt transporters.  Now, as for the Enterprise being under water...while the transporter thing could account for that, they could have just used shuttles.  So why was it under water?  Simple.  Rule of Cool.  There isn't really any other explanation.  And it was cool, but the whole scene COULD have used a little more dialog to explain WHY they hid the ship at the bottom of the ocean.

Kirk's demotion/re-promotion
So, Spock is saved, but Kirk blatantly violated the Prime Directive and then lied about it in his logs.  While Spock was correct in stating that, had things gone according to plan, the Prime Directive wouldn't have been violated, Kirk still covered up everything in his log.  This lead him to be demoted and have his command stripped from him.  Makes sense.  Pike realized that Kirk hadn't learned humility and sacrifice by legitimately working his way up the ranks.  But he also recognized the potential and got Kirk assigned back to the Enterprise as Pike's first officer.  Again, makes sense.  Where people got irritated is after Khan's attack on Starfleet HQ that results in the death of Pike, Kirk asks for command of the Enterprise back to go after him.  Admiral Marcus agrees, gives him his ship back as well as 72 advanced torpedoes to blow the crap out of Khan with.  This also makes sense, as I'll detail next.

Admiral Marcus's Plans and Section 31
So, Kirk, Spock, and Scotty find out that Khan used Scotty's transwarp beaming to beam to Kronos, Kirk and Spock tell Marcus and request permission to go after him.  At this time, Marcus tells Kirk and Spock about a top secret Starfleet division called Section 31.  So top secret that Marcus pretty much tells them everything.  Why do this?  Simple.  It's all part of the plan.  See, Marcus felt that the only way to have a good Federation is to have a militarized one.  So, he put highly advanced torpedoes on the Enterprise and ordered Kirk to go and fire them at the Klingon homeworld to kill Khan.  A bit harsh, yes?  Well, not if killing Khan isn't the point.  See, a Federation starship, firing at the Klingon homeworld, would be an act of war to the Klingons.  It wouldn't matter if the ship weren't in Klingon space or the torpedoes hit an uninhabited region.  So.  Marcus told Kirk and Spock all about a top secret Starfleet organization, gave them torpedoes, and told them to shoot at the Klingons.  Then the Enterprise's warp drive breaks down.  From here, it's all easy-peasy.  Marcus didn't care if Khan lived or died.  He sent the Enterprise and the trouble-making Kirk to be lambs for the slaughter.  The only reason he told them everything?  He didn't expect them to make it back.  They were meant to die, which he would then use as an excuse to begin a war against the Klingons and building up Starfleet's military.  So, in this context, it doesn't matter that Kirk had just been demoted.  He was being sent to die anyways, so why not give him command.

Khan Stupidity?
Let's get the big elephant out of the room first.  Khan is white.  Not just normal white, but pasty British white.  This was something that could have been solved in one scene.  Kirk or Spock looks up the historical database and finds Khan, asks what the hell, Khan says, "Section 31 surgically altered my appearance so I wouldn't be recognized by anyone."  This should have happened.  Now that that's out of the way, the torpedoes.  Khan put his people in them.  People seem to forget that he did so to try and pull one over on Admiral Marcus.  Marcus, probably correctly assuming Khan would do this, got hold of the torpedoes.  Khan then assumed that Marcus pulled the plug, cue vengeance.  This isn't hard to understand, really.  But people don't quite get it, I guess.  Now, when Khan beamed over the torpedoes?  He had no reason to believe Spock would pull a stunt like that.  Khan is, and always was, an arrogant, egotistical, manipulative bastard, and anyone who doesn't see that needs to rewatch Space Seed.  He was manipulating the Enterprise crew from the moment he woke up.  That's why I like this portrayal.  It seemed more like Khan than the raving, maniacal, Moby Dick-quoting lunatic from Wrath of Khan.  And on to the next Khan-related thing...

The "Magic" Blood
This has pissed a lot of people off.  But here's my thing.  Khan was engineered for perfection.  Why wouldn't he have been given a genetic trait that let him heal rapidly and stuff like that?  Everything that was done to Khan was never fully explored.  Rapid healing and regeneration just MAKES SENSE FOR A SUPER-SOLDIER.  Why make him superior in every way but one?  As for why it worked on a tribble?  I don't know.  All I do know is that McCoy obviously just had a dead tribble lying around and wanted to test the extent of the regenerative abilities of Khan's genetic alterations.

Kirk's death/Spock's emotional breakdown
This whole scene pays homage to The Wrath of Khan.  There's no getting around that.  But it is a role reversal and very little of the dialog is actually taken from TWOK.  Kirk learns humility and the meaning of sacrifice.  He saves the ship and crew at the (temporary)cost of his own life.  And Spock learns, too late, the value of friendship.  Now, I haven't heard too many complaints about the death scene itself, but I am going to give my own opinion on it.  Chris Pine OWNED that death scene.  I could feel his heartbreak in knowing that he paid the ultimate price for victory.  Definitely a much better death scene for James T. Kirk than in Star Trek Generations("Ow, I'm under...a bridge...and I can't...get up!")  But where some people gripe is Spock's emotional breakdown afterwards, and I think this gripe extends back to the 2009 film.  Spock has trouble with his emotions at times.  But let's look at it closely.  In the 2009 film, he was fine up until he watched his mother perish in front of him and then his planet imploded.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I sure couldn't stay in command of my emotions after that.  And Kirk deliberately poured salt in that wound.  Yes, they made up afterwards and everything seemed to be hunky-dory, but the thing is...that kind of wound will not close.  This Spock is never going to be as emotionally controlled as Spock Prime was at that age.  And watching the man that saved his life out of friendship die trying to save Spock and everyone else on the Enterprise was even more salt in the wound.  Naturally, Spock was upset.  We've seen Spock have emotional moments when it came to his Captain.  "Amok Time" is one great example.  After he learns Kirk is "dead", Spock snaps out of the drive that causes Vulcans to DIE unless they screw a woman.  He then, understandably, mourns the loss of his friend and prepares to be placed under arrest for killing an officer.  When Kirk is shown to be alive, Spock breaks out in a huge grin.  Emotionless?  Perhaps not.

These are some of the bigger ones I've noticed.  I don't count Kirk's revival because it was obviously going to happen, Khan blood or not, and besides, he was only mostly dead.  Another is a little confusion since it seemed the Enterprise was going out on her 5 year mission at the end of the 2009 film, but it was obviously a 6 month shakedown cruise/maiden voyage.  Get out and show the colors, as it were.  The 5 year mission is one for exploring unknown reaches.  That said, I'm sure I'll get a few other things pointed out to me.  If my Trekkie brain can come up with an explanation, I'll do so.  Until then, Live long and prosper.

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Offline Joshmaul

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #776 on: June 01, 2013, 03:16:10 PM »
So I saw Star Trek Into Darkness with my brother and stepfather - I had been semi-spoiled on what was what here, but had to see it for myself.

And as a fan of the original Star Trek II...not bad. Not great, but not bad. It had some good moments, and they gave an original villain a little bit more dimension, as opposed to just being "big strong dictator man" (and later big strong INSANE dictator man), even if his ultimate goal - resuming his rule over mankind, and now with a galaxy at his fingertips too - remained largely the same. Some bits of it I went "Seriously?" - they weren't just based on, they were outright lifts from the original. (Maybe not word-for-word exactly, but enough for those of us who grew up - albeit a tad late - on the original film to recognize.)

I'll give it a 2 1/2 out of 4. Again, not great, but not bad.
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Offline Saquist

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #777 on: June 01, 2013, 05:05:57 PM »
Double posting...I know, bad form...but I just posted this on another forum, and felt it deserved mentioning here as well.

Defending Star Trek Into Darkness(with some minor criticisms):

I'll be looking at some of the more common complaints and/or WTF's I've seen in regards to the movie and trying to defend them, though I am making allowances in some cases.  Let's get started.  WARNING, SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING!

Nibiru
First off, the biggest question is why was the Enterprise under water and why didn't they just beam Spock out from space.  I would THINK that most Trekkies could easily extrapolate from Chekov's line about the planet's magnetic field that transporters were not very reliable, and in fact, I would wager that the only reason they were able to get Spock OUT of the volcano is because the Enterprise moved directly overhead and within a certain distance.  This might also account for why the Enterprise wasn't in synchronous orbit OVER said volcano.  It's been shown in a few instances that magnetic fields disrupt transporters.  Now, as for the Enterprise being under water...while the transporter thing could account for that, they could have just used shuttles.  So why was it under water?  Simple.  Rule of Cool.  There isn't really any other explanation.  And it was cool, but the whole scene COULD have used a little more dialog to explain WHY they hid the ship at the bottom of the ocean.

I concur

Quote
Kirk's demotion/re-promotion
So, Spock is saved, but Kirk blatantly violated the Prime Directive and then lied about it in his logs.  While Spock was correct in stating that, had things gone according to plan, the Prime Directive wouldn't have been violated, Kirk still covered up everything in his log.  This lead him to be demoted and have his command stripped from him.  Makes sense.  Pike realized that Kirk hadn't learned humility and sacrifice by legitimately working his way up the ranks.  But he also recognized the potential and got Kirk assigned back to the Enterprise as Pike's first officer.  Again, makes sense.  Where people got irritated is after Khan's attack on Starfleet HQ that results in the death of Pike, Kirk asks for command of the Enterprise back to go after him.  Admiral Marcus agrees, gives him his ship back as well as 72 advanced torpedoes to blow the crap out of Khan with.  This also makes sense, as I'll detail next.

Quote
Admiral Marcus's Plans and Section 31
So, Kirk, Spock, and Scotty find out that Khan used Scotty's transwarp beaming to beam to Kronos, Kirk and Spock tell Marcus and request permission to go after him.  At this time, Marcus tells Kirk and Spock about a top secret Starfleet division called Section 31.  So top secret that Marcus pretty much tells them everything.  Why do this?  Simple.  It's all part of the plan.  See, Marcus felt that the only way to have a good Federation is to have a militarized one.  So, he put highly advanced torpedoes on the Enterprise and ordered Kirk to go and fire them at the Klingon homeworld to kill Khan.  A bit harsh, yes?  Well, not if killing Khan isn't the point.  See, a Federation starship, firing at the Klingon homeworld, would be an act of war to the Klingons.  It wouldn't matter if the ship weren't in Klingon space or the torpedoes hit an uninhabited region.  So.  Marcus told Kirk and Spock all about a top secret Starfleet organization, gave them torpedoes, and told them to shoot at the Klingons.  Then the Enterprise's warp drive breaks down.  From here, it's all easy-peasy.  Marcus didn't care if Khan lived or died.  He sent the Enterprise and the trouble-making Kirk to be lambs for the slaughter.  The only reason he told them everything?  He didn't expect them to make it back.  They were meant to die, which he would then use as an excuse to begin a war against the Klingons and building up Starfleet's military.  So, in this context, it doesn't matter that Kirk had just been demoted.  He was being sent to die anyways, so why not give him command.

I saw this too.  Spock would never had agreed  to bombing the Klingon home world....
Writing wise it still doesn't make sense to take Kirks command then give it back to him.  Normally this would have been done to SHOW that Pike's trust is missplaced...instead Kirk doesn't bomb the planet and there fore it invalidates the plot device o having Kirk Loose his command...in other worlds...if the whole point is for Robocop to send a loose canon to get mob by Klingons then (just like Young Kirk dirving a car off the cliff) the first scene of into Darkness makes absolutely no sense at all to the story itself. 
Nor does lying on a report warrant demotion.
 It simply didn't need to happen.

Quote
Khan Stupidity?
Let's get the big elephant out of the room first.  Khan is white.  Not just normal white, but pasty British white.  This was something that could have been solved in one scene.  Kirk or Spock looks up the historical database and finds Khan, asks what the hell, Khan says, "Section 31 surgically altered my appearance so I wouldn't be recognized by anyone."  This should have happened.  Now that that's out of the way, the torpedoes.  Khan put his people in them.  People seem to forget that he did so to try and pull one over on Admiral Marcus.  Marcus, probably correctly assuming Khan would do this, got hold of the torpedoes.  Khan then assumed that Marcus pulled the plug, cue vengeance.  This isn't hard to understand, really.  But people don't quite get it, I guess.  Now, when Khan beamed over the torpedoes?  He had no reason to believe Spock would pull a stunt like that.  Khan is, and always was, an arrogant, egotistical, manipulative bastard, and anyone who doesn't see that needs to rewatch Space Seed.  He was manipulating the Enterprise crew from the moment he woke up.  That's why I like this portrayal.  It seemed more like Khan than the raving, maniacal, Moby Dick-quoting lunatic from Wrath of Khan.  And on to the next Khan-related thing...

-I don't care about his racial color.
-I will say it is semi stupid of Khan to accept a load of torpedos from another ship
It's just another poor plot device.  (not bad) but poor.  Why would you put your people's lives in danger by sticking them in live explosives...Then in battle...beam over live explosives.
...anyone....anybody?

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The "Magic" Blood
This has pissed a lot of people off.  But here's my thing.  Khan was engineered for perfection.  Why wouldn't he have been given a genetic trait that let him heal rapidly and stuff like that?  Everything that was done to Khan was never fully explored.  Rapid healing and regeneration just MAKES SENSE FOR A SUPER-SOLDIER.  Why make him superior in every way but one?  As for why it worked on a tribble?  I don't know.  All I do know is that McCoy obviously just had a dead tribble lying around and wanted to test the extent of the regenerative abilities of Khan's genetic alterations.

In science nor in plots you don't aske (why wouldn't) because the burden of logic here demands we answer the question (why throw away a cure for death.)  That's just stupid...
It's a plot contrivance pure and simple.

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Kirk's death/Spock's emotional breakdown
This whole scene pays homage to The Wrath of Khan.  There's no getting around that.  But it is a role reversal and very little of the dialog is actually taken from TWOK.  Kirk learns humility and the meaning of sacrifice.  He saves the ship and crew at the (temporary)cost of his own life.  And Spock learns, too late, the value of friendship.  Now, I haven't heard too many complaints about the death scene itself, but I am going to give my own opinion on it.  Chris Pine OWNED that death scene.  I could feel his heartbreak in knowing that he paid the ultimate price for victory.  Definitely a much better death scene for James T. Kirk than in Star Trek Generations("Ow, I'm under...a bridge...and I can't...get up!")  But where some people gripe is Spock's emotional breakdown afterwards, and I think this gripe extends back to the 2009 film.  Spock has trouble with his emotions at times.  But let's look at it closely.  In the 2009 film, he was fine up until he watched his mother perish in front of him and then his planet imploded.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I sure couldn't stay in command of my emotions after that.  And Kirk deliberately poured salt in that wound.  Yes, they made up afterwards and everything seemed to be hunky-dory, but the thing is...that kind of wound will not close.  This Spock is never going to be as emotionally controlled as Spock Prime was at that age.  And watching the man that saved his life out of friendship die trying to save Spock and everyone else on the Enterprise was even more salt in the wound.  Naturally, Spock was upset.  We've seen Spock have emotional moments when it came to his Captain.  "Amok Time" is one great example.  After he learns Kirk is "dead", Spock snaps out of the drive that causes Vulcans to DIE unless they screw a woman.  He then, understandably, mourns the loss of his friend and prepares to be placed under arrest for killing an officer.  When Kirk is shown to be alive, Spock breaks out in a huge grin.  Emotionless?  Perhaps not.

I still don't know the difference between "homage and rip-off" but it wasn't done tastefully.  No matter how little or how much  the dialogue is taken, the whole scene was a tacky reproduction of Wrath of Khan.  If this had been a PARODY  then it's forgivable because it isn't meant to be taken seriously.  And I can't take this film seriously.  (Neither the last film)  so I choose PARODY...because it was funny too.  ZERO knowledge on warp cores and proceeds to jump and KICK a nuclear super collider.
(If that's not meant to be taken seriously...I don't know what a joke is)



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Until then, Live long and prosper.

Aye

Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #778 on: June 01, 2013, 09:21:43 PM »
So, just got back from a second viewing.  Still love it.  Took my sister, a nonTrek fan.  She did know OF Khan, so she was surprised when Cumberbatch said "My name...is KHAN."  And her reaction to Kirk's DEATH, not his death and rebirth: "Oh my god...that is bullshit."  These were both quiet reactions, the small ones that I know are true reactions from her.

And Saquist, while I understand your feelings, I have to disagree on one point.  Khan had NO reason to expect the torpedoes to be armed.  He didn't expect skullduggery from the logical Vulcan.  And I still found Kirk's percussive maintenance of the warp core more plausible than Spock pulling undefinable black shadows from a glowing ray of light.  Seriously guys, you should know.  WHAT WAS SPOCK DOING?!

To Boldly Go...Again.

Offline ShaunKL

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Re: Trek XII - Images, Videos, Discussion, ect... (WARNING: SPOILERS)
« Reply #779 on: June 02, 2013, 12:47:47 AM »
You know, I never caught that Spock was actually pulling stuff out of there.  I thought he was just manipulating something inside the... what is that thing... (checking...) Hnn, I guess it was like that crystal chamber room from TOS: The Alternative Factor".

What did you guys think of Simon Pegg's "contemporary" handling of communicators?  Also, haven't the phaser and communicator props been updated for ID?  It seemed like they were at least visibly modified.
Thanks for letting me know the forum was back up, guys.  I thought everyone died.