Ambassador Class

[gclark03]

I also doubt the idea that the Enterprise, a ship that almost never travels in a fleet, is the true Federation flagship. What navy sends its flagship alone on missions of exploration?

That said, I would expect some kind of dedicated command cruiser to be the Federation's true 'flagship', and the Enterprise to be the unofficial flagship and 'poster child' of Starfleet.

That, however, has nothing to do with the poor Ambassador.

So, I wonder what Starfleet did with the Ambassador after it was phased out as Starfleet's leading heavy cruiser. Did it just serve as a diplomatic transport (which explains the Spartan bridge) or become part of the reserve fleet, or was it mothballed entirely? Is there any canon present to determine the Ambassador's fate?

[Villain]

I also doubt the idea that the Enterprise, a ship that almost never travels in a fleet, is the true Federation flagship. What navy sends its flagship alone on missions of exploration?

That said, I would expect some kind of dedicated command cruiser to be the Federation's true 'flagship', and the Enterprise to be the unofficial flagship and 'poster child' of Starfleet.

That, however, has nothing to do with the poor Ambassador.

So, I wonder what Starfleet did with the Ambassador after it was phased out as Starfleet's leading heavy cruiser. Did it just serve as a diplomatic transport (which explains the Spartan bridge) or become part of the reserve fleet, or was it mothballed entirely? Is there any canon present to determine the Ambassador's fate?

AFAIK, it's a Diplomatic Cruiser. Also, space navy's seem to be different, but.. With the Ent-D being so gorram strong (Then there's the Ent-E, yeesh), I'd say it's a fleet in itself.

[gclark03]

Every Enterprise in Star Trek has made for an exceptionally poor Flagship for the following reasons:

1) No flag officer was ever intended to command the Enterprise. (RAdm. Kirk stole command from Capt. Decker, remember.)
2) Enterprise has never had any involvement in the command and control functions of Starfleet. By definition, a flagship is meant to coordinate a fleet, not wander the cosmos LY from the nearest escorts.
3) A flagship would, as I said before, be surrounded by escorts. Starfleet would be out of their damn minds to send their actual flagship on five-year missions of exploration.
4) Flagships are not always the fastest, newest, or most powerful ships in the fleet, whereas all Enterprises, except the Ent-A, have been named Enterprise because of their speed, novelty, or power.

That said, I would expect the true flagship of Starfleet to have a separate 'flag bridge', for use by the Admiralty and their staff, as well as a command bridge, and a few other modifications (faster warp drive, maybe).

My conclusion is that Enterprise is not Starfleet's actual 'flagship' (as in, a mobile command and control center), but simply the most well-known ship and Starfleet's icon of power.

[Pathfinder]

Well there can certainly be other flagships out there, like during Wolf 359 or Battle of Sector 001, the ship that happened to be carrying the admiral was considered a flagship just due to the admiral directing the fleet.
That said, I'm it was repeatedly stated in TNG in various episodes that Ent-D was considered "a" if not "the" flagship of Starfleet. This was earlier in the series because there probably weren't many other Galaxy or other new innovative ships out there. Like you said it was more of a posterchild.
Or it could be assumed that during a major fleet action the Enterprise would be the major command ship and since TNG never showed the Enterprise in a major fleet action it was never able to live up to its potential. One other thing I might note: During the opening battle of First Contact, Battle of Sector 001, when the Enterprise E arrived and discovered the admiral's ship to be destroyed, Picard quickly assumed command of the strike force and directed the actions which ultimately lead to the cube's destruction. Now whether this was because Picard had background knowledge of the Borg, the Enterprise E was the strongest ship and considered "a" flagship, or Picard was considered a senior captain in Starfleet, or a combination of the three is up for debate.

Also, I would not expect for there to be a significant Admiral staff or seperate flag bridge in Star Trek. If you look at the DS9 Episode Sacrifice of Angels which revolved around Starfleet's battle to retake DS9, Captain Sisko not only sinlge handedly directed the entire Starfleet combined squadron, but did so will remaining captain of the Defiant during a heated battle. Flag staffs in US Navy, and others i'm sure, are comprised of people like Anti-Submarine or Anti-Air warfare officers, but in space you don't need any of those. As Sisko and Picard have demostrated, all you need is a sound objective and a keen mind and you can lead a fleet of starships (while leading your ship too).

But getting back to the Ambassador: It probably had its highlights during the beginning of TNG when it was still one of the top dogs (you'll notice in several episodes people call it the Ambassador-class heavy cruiser instead of the Ambassador-class) but during the middle to end of DS9 and First Contact newer ships with greater speed and power ultimately forced it into retirement. Which is the life of any ship, its just the evolution of technology.

[Erk]

personally, i think the Enterprise-D was considered "a" if not "the" flagship of the Federation, because Gene Roddenberry wanted to show how advanced the Enterprise-D was from the TOS 1701. It's set 100 years after Kirk, and the 1701-D is bigger, faster, stronger, and much much newer. Picard assumed command of the ship while she was still parked in a dock. When Kirk took command of the Enterprise it was  close to 20-25 years old. I think the Enterprise-D was the chosen to be the Representative ship for the Federation, primarily for diplomatic and exploratory missions. When she needed to be, the Ent-D was also a powerful defensive for the Feds.

I just dont understand the point of sending a ship full of families into the unknown... damn illogical if ya ask me.

I have a model of the Enterprise-C, and it just doesnt scream "powerful" at me. Its really a mix of the Galaxy class and Excelsior class. I think it may have been a good idea   on paper when the starfleet engineers thought of it...

[gclark03]

Is it possible that the Starfleet of the early 2300s was more militaristic than the Starfleet of the 2360s (before the Borg or Dominion)? Assuming that this is true, the Ambassador, developed in an age where the Federation remained in conflict with the Klingon Empire (Khitomer didn't end everything), would not have supported any appreciable number of civilians. The Galaxy class, on the other hand, was built in Starfleet's golden age of peace and exploration, and someone in Starfleet Command probably considered carrying large numbers of civilians safe at the time.

To me, the Ambassador-class just screams Constitution. I believe that it was designed to serve as an explorer more along the lines of the 1701, but this goal was sidetracked by conflict with the Romulans and, eventually, the launch of the Nebula and Galaxy cruisers. After it was rendered obsolete in exploration and combat alike, it would have made a wonderful choice for a diplomatic escort, but that still doesn't explain why it was called the Ambassador-class in the first place.

I also think that Ambassador is just a bad name for a heavy cruiser.

[Adonis]

...or just maybe SF-s definition of flagships is different from the naval one of today. As for the design itself, look under Probert Ambassador study. THAT should have been the Ambassador we know, not Jein's POS excuse.

[mckinneyc]

...or just maybe SF-s definition of flagships is different from the naval one of today. As for the design itself, look under Probert Ambassador study. THAT should have been the Ambassador we know, not Jein's POS excuse.

I totally agree with Adonis on both points. Probert's Ambassador is gorgeous, shame there wasn't enough time for a model to be built for the show.

Also the other Enterprises besides the D and E seem to be run of the mill class members, the D being called the Flagship seems to prove she's the most advanced ship and has the best crew which was referenced alot in the show.

[gclark03]

How so? The NX and 1701 Enterprises -were- top-of-the-line explorers at the time of their respective series, the A was identical to the 1701 refit, the B was a brand-new modified Excelsior, and the C was a newly-launched Ambassador, which must have been cutting edge at the time.

[martyr]

coming back to probert's ambassador, has anyone modelled it for bc?

[mckinneyc]

coming back to probert's ambassador, has anyone modelled it for bc?

Not that i know of, man it would be class.

[JerichoKru]

coming back to probert's ambassador, has anyone modelled it for bc?

I second that

[Villain]

I'd give it a go, but there doesn't seem to be any schematics.

[martyr]

what if you go with the concept and run with it?

[Aeries]

I've only seen one pic of Probert's Ambassador... unfortunately I must admit that I'm not fond of it; I prefer the original to be honest. And even then... I'm not too fond of that one, either. :/ Though I might think differently if there were some CGI pictures or some diagrams or... SOMETHING....

[Darran]

Did someone say CGI, google is a marvelous thing

http://www.probertdesigns.com/Folder_STORE/Folder_CONCEPT-KITS/Ambassador_Kit.html[url]]http://www.probertdesigns.com/Folder_STORE/Folder_CONCEPT-KITS/Ambassador_Kit.htmlhttp://

[Aeries]

I did google it, but I only ever found the actual model thingy.

Oh well, thanks! Hmm... it's okay. That secondary hull really makes it look fat at some angles, though, and those nacelles are so thin they're out of place... but still... I kinda like it. Looks nice and sleek at other angles.

[Villain]

Hmm, this has orthographical views? Really shows the Excelsior design theories in it too.. Maybe I will add it to the list...

[ChronowerX_GT]

This should of been the Ambassador instead of the one we know. It's a perfect fit between the Excelsior and Galaxy.

[Darran]

I'm not 100% convinced, Proberts looks a little fat and the nacelle pylons dont sit with me, maybe a meld of the two designs