Author Topic: Borg are no more  (Read 1895 times)

Offline Dawg81

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Borg are no more
« on: October 12, 2009, 11:23:52 PM »
I couldnt find a thread about this so i finally got ahold of the entire destiny novels and to put it into plain terms THE BORG ARE NO MORE!!! after 2381 they met their better halves litterally!! i wont spoil this for those who havent read it but there are alot of twists and turns in the 3 part novel series starting in Ent era and ending in post nem. If anyone remembers ships of the line calander from a few years ago where the NX02 Columbia was buried in sand that plays one of several key roles in the destiny novels.

Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2009, 11:35:24 PM »
Spoilers below:

- NX02 Columbia is found in the Gamma Quadrant
- Destiny Novels are not part of the STO Path to 2409
- Borg are in STO
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Offline Daystar70

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2009, 12:54:23 AM »
This is NOT canon..i am not trying to start a flame but Destiny novels are most assuredly NOT recognised by paramount, the Borg are back in STO and paramount is backing that storyline up 100%. Destiny is a great read, but it is not canon. It is not recognised as "this happens" by paramount studios and they not only don't recognise it, by supporting STO they're implying that storyline IS canon..but officially it's not yet canon unless the events get mentioned on tv or film of course. Paramount loves the Borg, they won't destroy tehir award winning most original villain in sci fi history (arguably,but i would agree ).

Offline Shadowknight1

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2009, 01:14:21 AM »
I can solve that "canon or not canon" argument with two simple words: Alternate Timeline.  Great answer for everything.  By that logic, all the books are canon, just in separate quantum realities.  ;)

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Offline Daystar70

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2009, 02:24:50 AM »
Now that i can agree with :) Even my own Daystar series is going to be considered in a alternate quantum reality so i can feel creatively free to do things that could be contradicted later. I have mentioned in past posts that alternate realities are so rampantly part of Trek, in some ways its a gift from teh producers to say to fans "everything counts really its a matter of what is canon or not in "prime"trek. And as a way for them to wiggle out of errors like the temporal cold war in Enterprise haha :P

Offline Dawg81

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2009, 04:20:54 PM »
wow i wasnt even aware of that but it is a very good read

Offline Dalek

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2009, 04:51:04 PM »
Canonly, I think it's assumed that the Borg are dead or severely crippled. Uncanonly, it's all a bit mad to say the least.
"To live on as we have is to leave behind joy, and love, and companionship, because we know it to be transitory, of the moment. We know it will turn to ash. Only those whose lives are brief can imagine that love is eternal. You should embrace that remarkable illusion. It may be the greatest gift your race has ever received."

 - Lorien

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2009, 04:56:10 PM »
I will never believe, ever, until its said,that the Borg are gone. They are to big a hit and have become culturally a phenomena they've had lengthy discussions on shows abotu what an unexpected smash hit the Borg are, hence why they got cinematic treatment in FC which was the most succesful TNG film BBECAUSE they had the Borg. Paramount won't eliminate a threat villain that can ring in cash any more than theyd kill off the Klingons

Offline undedavenger

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2009, 05:26:24 PM »
I have to disagree. The Borg are stale and way overused. They should die and stay dead, unless a truly refreshing revamp of them is done.

I will not play STO, therefore, it is not in my "canon". lol

If a tree falls and no one is around, does it make a sound?
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Offline Dalek

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2009, 05:30:43 PM »
I have to disagree. The Borg are stale and way overused. They should die and stay dead, unless a truly refreshing revamp of them is done.

Yeah, they really have been done to death. Literally.

If a tree falls and no one is around, does it make a sound?

Yup. :)
"To live on as we have is to leave behind joy, and love, and companionship, because we know it to be transitory, of the moment. We know it will turn to ash. Only those whose lives are brief can imagine that love is eternal. You should embrace that remarkable illusion. It may be the greatest gift your race has ever received."

 - Lorien

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 05:38:05 PM »
Quote
If a tree falls and no one is around, does it make a sound?

Yes. Sound vibrations are made wether an ear recieves it.

The Borg are still my favorites i think the KLingons have been done to death myself, and find them ridiculously crude as a fictional culture. They were interesting from Worf's point of view, but to many guest Klingons were portrayed as Utterly stupid animmals, The exceptions were Kruge from trek 3, and general chang of trek 6, General Mortok, Khey'lar....Even Gowron who started out semi intelligent and even listened to worf's wisdom about Khaless words and stopped the assault on ds9, ended up being written as a moron at the end of the war so thaty Worf had an excuse to challenge and kill him off.

The cardassians were One of the better villains to come along, more nazi like aliens and good makeup jobsm interesting ship designs, and consistent behavior while allowing individuals to shine within their race- Gul Dukat has my vote for all time best Trek villain.

Offline Tuskin38

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2009, 06:31:03 PM »
This is why I like Star Wars canon, almost everything is canon as long as it was approved by LucasFilm, (Including games since they are by 'lucasarts'.)Yay no canon arguments for them, mostly.

Anyways... I like the Destiny novels. Screw STO.

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2009, 08:58:47 PM »
As someone said theyre all canon in seperate universes of possibilities. I actually thought of a way the Borg could return even if Destiny became canon, much like The daleks in dr who, who were believed all destroyed in the time war, the few who survived in the void brought em back, and they got wiped agin..but davros may have survived and cycle again...Borg from an alternate reality could sidestep to the regular universe as that universes borg could have assimilated a species that did not exist in ours, who had dimension traveling technology they assimilated..anything is possible.

Offline Lionus

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2009, 04:05:55 PM »
Borg? Gone? that's bit like saying Aids has been cured.. Just because of the endgame displayed death of yet another clone of borg queen, doesn't mean that they're done for.. no, they be back.
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Offline undedavenger

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2009, 02:41:33 PM »
Lionus, we were not discussing endgame. ST: Destiny takes place in the early 2380's, Voyager returned in what? '73, '74?

I agree that the story should be worked out so that Destiny and STO work together. How many times have we seen the Borg "defeated", after all?

the real problem is the Klingons. At the end of Destiny, they are tighter with the Federation than ever. In STO, the Feds are back at war with them. A lot can happen in 20 years, but Martok struck me as having some respect for the Federation. I can't picture him advocating a war with his allies. What I CAN picture is a rival faction in the high council pushing a war behind he scenes, like when Gowron became Chancellor.

I guess we'll have to wait until STO comes out to see their reasoning.

While the Borg are overused and overexplained, the Klingons are worth doing if done the RIGHT way. Their complete history is a blank, pretty much. You could get some really good angles out of that, if the right author was working it.
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Offline Daystar70

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2009, 03:41:05 PM »
The Duras family and Toral? the kid worf spared, are part of the plot breakdown of khitomer accords/and sela of romulans plotting, Klingons war with Gorn has something to do w it to.

Offline Dalek

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2009, 04:07:27 PM »
Voyager returned in 2377/8.

As for what happens in Destiny and STO...I couldn't really care less. Both are seperate and have their own interpretation of events and STO has already played along with the beginnings of the JJ timeline.
"To live on as we have is to leave behind joy, and love, and companionship, because we know it to be transitory, of the moment. We know it will turn to ash. Only those whose lives are brief can imagine that love is eternal. You should embrace that remarkable illusion. It may be the greatest gift your race has ever received."

 - Lorien

Offline Daystar70

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2009, 04:19:37 PM »
STO according to the wiki, recognises "pieces of" Destiny, pertaining to commandra Donatras romulan power struggle, but chucks the rest.

Modification: Sorry, i meant Titan series, although they crossover. Anyways, In terms of The canon, My opinion has mutated to the following: we can argue and debate forever on whats recognsied or not asd canon, The pocket books Destiny series may have been" allowed to be" written, But Janeways own backstory on what was her first ship was "supposedly" clearly stated in a novel and disregarded and overthrown by an episode of Voyager, paramount has a habit of giving the green light to media then sayign F*** em well do this and contradict it anyways. So yes, even STO "must" by logic, be treated the same as the books- not canon-because like bridge commander/armada 1 and 2, SFC 1-3, the "stories" are like glorified fan fic- Tim russ<Tuvok">helped make "of gods and men" with many trek alumni, but does this give credit as canon to it? Unfortunetly not.

The exception to this rule in furthur common sense, is the canon of "countdown", because it was written by michael ocri of the Trek V! film, as a prequal backstory, an "extention" of the films plot, he recognises this by his own pen to paper as what happened in TNG era 2387, so use common frikkin sense- its close enough to be a "child" of the film in "prime" trek no less- to be treated as canon.

Offline undedavenger

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2009, 10:11:36 PM »
I would say Countdown has to go to the top of the list as far as candidates for "printed canon" I mean, it brought Data back and made him Captain of the freakin' Enterprise! That is too cool, and rights a serious wrong that Nemesis committed. Like I said, chances are extremely remote that I'll be playing STO, since I hate the gameplay format and having to pay to play a game I own. But I'll keep an open mind regarding the endpoint of its plot.
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Offline Darkthunder

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Re: Borg are no more
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2009, 11:01:28 PM »
I would say Countdown has to go to the top of the list as far as candidates for "printed canon" I mean, it brought Data back and made him Captain of the freakin' Enterprise! That is too cool, and rights a serious wrong that Nemesis committed. Like I said, chances are extremely remote that I'll be playing STO, since I hate the gameplay format and having to pay to play a game I own. But I'll keep an open mind regarding the endpoint of its plot.

Technically, the Countdown comic is part of canon. The events directly tie into how "Old Spock" ended up in the alternate universe "timeline".
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